PMC Discussion Thread: 3.0 Interest Check

Yeah i agree, there are many people who can take part in the competitions. Even those without major editing experience can enter, after all, a great edit can be something completely different or something basically edited...After all, a great picture is a great picture! 👍

I'd say the same thing really. Sure sometimes major editing and FX can look great if done right and not just slapped on. But sometimes less is more depending on the concept and style approach. So I think complexity of editing isn't that much of an issue in my eyes.

I'd give it ago once i've widened my abilities past colour alterations and basic cleanup.

I've just bought lightroom 4 but I'm not allowed it until xmas:rolleyes:, just to check will this allow me to add 3.0 features like rain drop effects etc?

Well afaik you'll be able to do some advanced colour and tone work but as for editing/manipulaton or effect intergration I don't think it has that capabillity. Not completely sure as I don't own a copy myself but I know others do so hopefully they'll give more of a difinitive answer. The main tool of choice for serious image editing would PS, or Gimp to slightly lesser extent.


I guess it allows you to do anything you want :)

Till today I didn't put much effort in doing extensive edit work because there is no point. With a competition like this I would probably invest some time doing it. :) I think I just made 1 shot that would fit in a 3.0 comp... was my NSX in the rain. And that's pretty much all. lol


I know there is talent hidding around here and we don't have a clue! :D

No point huh, isn't pushing yourself to become better or be able to produce whatever you think of creatively a good thing to strive for? It can be very time consuming though which is an obvious down side.

Probably right about the hiding talent.
 
zzz_pt
I guess it allows you to do anything you want :)

Till today I didn't put much effort in doing extensive edit work because there is no point. With a competition like this I would probably invest some time doing it. :) I think I just made 1 shot that would fit in a 3.0 comp... was my NSX in the rain. And that's pretty much all. lol


I know there is talent hidding around here and we don't have a clue! :D
GPR
No point huh, isn't pushing yourself to become better or be able to produce whatever you think of creatively a good thing to strive for? It can be very time consuming though which is an obvious down side.

Probably right about the hiding talent.
I agree. The worst thing anyone can do in life is not push yourself. I've always thought of the things i excel at and the time it has took to get there as practice, and not as a downside.

But any time spent learning no matter how small is better than not learning atall! 👍
 
I'm in favor of a 3.0 integrated into the PSC as Nick indicated. That should provide enough variety to keep the comp fresh.
 
Sounds good to me. Great idea and format. The only thing i wouldn't like is having the photos provided for us.

If i were to spend hours editing a photo to a high standard i would rather it be my own shot. I just like being 100% responsible for my output especially when it comes to printing out an edit to hang on my wall. I just wouldn't be as proud of it if it was based on someone elses vision.

No one may agree with me though hehe!

Other than that though you've come up with a great competition model Taiga 👍

Ah. I see what you mean. But we'll put that on hold until the competition is confirmed for now. And if the edit section is removed, what would you reckon would be a good idea for the alternating weeks?


Just a silly idea: The PCM winner shot could be the base for a 3.0 competition (sometimes). :D

Good idea. That might be a possibility if 3.0 really goes up.

Quick question, does no rule cover photo stitching?

And I like the idea of having two alternating themes each week. 👍

Photo-stitching would definitely be allowed in 3.0.

I would do it.

What about putting cars into actual photographed scenes? Would that be something that would be able to be implimented into the 3.0 comp?

The latter is a matter that I thought of before. If that was say, allowed, then few people would dominate the competition altogether and that would inevitably kill the competition. But then again, that would defeat the 'no limits' rule of 3.0 Unlimited.

But to keep the competition fair, I would suggest sticking only to enhancement of photos where, 50% of it still remains original and not turn in into another PSC.

I like the idea, but I would much rather prefer if someone (with Revolution consent) took the PSC from where it left and re-introduce the 3.0 ideas into it. Maybe having something like graphics, manipulation and 3.0 so that the 3.0 would cover the things you can't do in graphics and manipulation (more about the photo itself (HDR, panorama, editing a provided image) and less about doing a poster/magazine like the graphics week or edit the body-kit of a car like the manipulation week). I think that way you would have a competition that would remain strong for many weeks. The 3.0 as a standalone, I don't think it would go up more than 10 weeks (more or less).

As I said in the tournament discussion thread:


In conclusion, as I said before, I would rather have a re-invented PSC with some tweaks to it, than a brand new 3.0 competition.

GPR
I agree with this. Although I'm sure there would be be some nice shots to work with from others I think my compulsion to enter would depend greatly on what shots were on offer.

I think a re-working of the PSC to a 3.0 could work. And I'd likely enter when I can. But I can also see how it may still not have the longevity it deserves. You never know until you try though.

That has been thought of as well. But the major setback of the PSC was that Manipulation and Graphics week, to some, was way too time-consuming and decided not to participate altogether, resulting in the dwindling participants of the PSC.

In some weeks of PSC, the poll couldn't be filled, sometimes down to just 3-5 entries.
Guaranteed a 3.0 week within the PSC would most definitely work, but the other 2 weeks might show less participants and effectively turn it into a standalone 3.0. :nervous:


to be very honest ,.. how many of us can keep up with the skillz of shaolin masta - gtuned & jBhIpS ? maybe Nato and raphael ? but never the less i would start coming back to gt5 if there is an 3.0 competition like Taiga mentioned .

cheers

As I have mentioned above, in order to keep it fair and not have few people dominate the competition, limitations might be put in so that the competition still focused on enhancement and not turned it into PSC altogether.

Yeah i agree, there are many people who can take part in the competitions. Even those without major editing experience can enter, after all, a great edit can be something completely different or something basically edited...After all, a great picture is a great picture! 👍

This is quite the answer to nanabu's question. 👍
A basic edit can always outdo someone who had spent 3 hours perfecting their entry!

well sorry for beeing realistic, my chances vs g tuned are just veeeeeery small :D

but you both are right , everyone can enter ,. i didn磘 said anything against that or did i ? ....

anyway, i would enter anyway just to see the awesome stuff some of you are producing .

The way I see it, everyone has a chance against anyone, no matter how great they might be.
But in order to prevent dominance of the competition, rules/limitations might be implemented, as I've said before.
These rules could be, for example, not allowing to place the subject in a totally different environment, say not allowing cutting a car out and pasting it onto another photo.

I'd give it ago once i've widened my abilities past colour alterations and basic cleanup.

I've just bought lightroom 4 but I'm not allowed it until xmas:rolleyes:, just to check will this allow me to add 3.0 features like rain drop effects etc?

That might have to be discussed. Say if weather edits were allowed, some competitors, who are good at it, might repeatedly use it week after week to guarantee their victory, spoiling the competition.
But that still has to be discussed. :)

I guess it allows you to do anything you want :)

Till today I didn't put much effort in doing extensive edit work because there is no point. With a competition like this I would probably invest some time doing it. :) I think I just made 1 shot that would fit in a 3.0 comp... was my NSX in the rain. And that's pretty much all. lol

I know there is talent hidding around here and we don't have a clue! :D

Like I've said to cphbullet, if weather editing was allowed (by default it is, since it is 3.0 Unlimited anyway), there might be competitors who repeatedly use it to ensure their victory and that would undoubtedly spoil the competition.
But I'm sure it can be worked out one way or the other.



So at the current moment the interest seems to be fairly well. But there are a few points of discussion before 3.0 could work. I would very much appreciate it if you guys could drop your inputs.

Should edit week be replaced with another type of theme?

Should major editing be disallowed, like cutting and pasting cars into another environment, to prevent it from turning into PSC?

Should weather editing be disallowed, as competitors might repeatedly use it week after week to ensure their victory, spoiling the competition?

Should 3.0 be incorporated into PSC (Please read above in regards to my reply to Nicknamealguem & GPR before answering this.)

Thanks a lot guys. Hopefully this might work some way or the other.
 
Sounds like you are envisaging this to more like the 2.0 Comp and not so much as the PhotoShop Comp was - in which case it shouldn't be a problem to have certain restrictions in place while still allowing an unlimited use of tools/techniques. I would be keen to see something like this happen, I think it would be more accessible to the masses than the PSC was and therefore should attract more entries. :)
 
But to keep the competition fair, I would suggest sticking only to enhancement of photos where, 50% of it still remains original and not turn in into another PSC.

The way I see it, everyone has a chance against anyone, no matter how great they might be.
But in order to prevent dominance of the competition, rules/limitations might be implemented, as I've said before.
These rules could be, for example, not allowing to place the subject in a totally different environment, say not allowing cutting a car out and pasting it onto another photo.

That might have to be discussed. Say if weather edits were allowed, some competitors, who are good at it, might repeatedly use it week after week to guarantee their victory, spoiling the competition.
But that still has to be discussed. :)

Hmm, i feel like its very hard to distinguish where the line should be drawn in the sand regarding limits. I see your point Taiga, although I don't think those than can do great weather edits will exclusively dominate. Particularly if it doesn't suit the theme for that week.

I think cutouts should be allowed but perhaps just not be allowed to be pasted onto real photo backgrounds. Still tough call on that one. :indiff:

Personally I think it should stand alone as a 3.0 comp to keep inline with the other long standing comps and not do an alternate week thing just be consistent like the other comps. But feel free to disagree with me folks.

I'd just like to see a comp like this actually happen. :)
 
Just a suggestion, but what about a monthly 3.0 instead of weekly? Than you have a month to build entry's instead of week to week.

The PSC comp is before my time on the forum so I don't know if I am stepping out of line or not.

That might be to long as well, it really varies on the diff. forums I have been on when it comes to photos contests and time frames. Sometime a month is awesome, other times, people forget about it, and there are no entrys.
 
Sounds like you are envisaging this to more like the 2.0 Comp and not so much as the PhotoShop Comp was - in which case it shouldn't be a problem to have certain restrictions in place while still allowing an unlimited use of tools/techniques. I would be keen to see something like this happen, I think it would be more accessible to the masses than the PSC was and therefore should attract more entries. :)

That pretty much sums up what I'm thinking for 3.0 right now. :) 👍

GPR
Hmm, i feel like its very hard to distinguish where the line should be drawn in the sand regarding limits. I see your point Taiga, although I don't think those than can do great weather edits will exclusively dominate. Particularly if it doesn't suit the theme for that week.

I think cutouts should be allowed but perhaps just not be allowed to be pasted onto real photo backgrounds. Still tough call on that one. :indiff:

Personally I think it should stand alone as a 3.0 comp to keep inline with the other long standing comps and not do an alternate week thing just be consistent like the other comps. But feel free to disagree with me folks.

I'd just like to see a comp like this actually happen. :)

Of course, weather edits may not dominate the poll, but then again, they might put the whole playing field onto a whole new level. Maybe we could have weather edits only on weather edit themes?

I think specific rules have to be drawn out, for example:
Disallowing the changing of the car (car must be from original photo)
Disallowing swapping of backgrounds (so nothing like Blood Moon or leeislee's Metropolis set, for example [Hope you don't mind me using your stuff as an example])
Only allowing weather edits/other major overhauls (e.g. this on themes that require it.)



Just a suggestion, but what about a monthly 3.0 instead of weekly? Than you have a month to build entry's instead of week to week.

The PSC comp is before my time on the forum so I don't know if I am stepping out of line or not.

That might be to long as well, it really varies on the diff. forums I have been on when it comes to photos contests and time frames. Sometime a month is awesome, other times, people forget about it, and there are no entrys.

PSC, nearing the end, was usually dragged on and delayed for 1.5-2 weeks. That I think, played a part in it's shutdown.
1 month might be too long a period in between competition and interest might fade.
But we'll see. If time is what everyone needs, maybe the competition term can be pulled to 2 weeks?


Maybe we can open a trial week and see how the participation and competition goes before making it permanent?
 
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my two cents:

a weekly comp would (maybe) help keep entries from getting over the top. Some awesome editing can be done in a couple hours. A month would be a long time to wait. Two weeks might not be too bad. I think 1.5 weeks, posting the comp on a Wednesday and closing it on the 2nd Sunday would give two weekends to work on stuff.

I don't quite agree with limiting the background editing...maybe make it state that the road and car must be original, but allow editing of both (adding cracks to roads, dirt to cars, etc). I like the idea of adding background stuff like buildings, since I think the game will eventually have more scenery. The emphasis should be on the GT5 cars, since that's what we're showcasing, the awesomeness of GT5.


my idea of rules, are basically allowing what is normally not allowed in 2.0:

Alter the geometry of the car. Stickers, body modifications (aero kits, wheels, paint)
Add shapes or objects from outside of GT5 (as above, but keeping the car and environment original)
Add lens flares or "artistic" filters to image. (Basically any photo editing tools, as long as they're not breaking the other rules.)
Remove items from shot (in the context of cleaning up a shot, some mild object removal is ok to me, like a road sign or removing parts of a car like hood vents).
Use more than 1 image (HDR, photo-stitching, multi-exposure).
Selective car color changing: masking different parts to create racing stripes or similar.
Alter weather or similar effects (snow/rain/lightning)


The Heavy Edit thread is basically one long on-going 3.0 competition but with no poll or judge.

All entries must be new creations, nothing previously posted anywhere. Not even posted to other sites. The intent of this is to give the same amount of time for creations.
 
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my two cents:

a weekly comp would (maybe) help keep entries from getting over the top. Some awesome editing can be done in a couple hours. A month would be a long time to wait. Two weeks might not be too bad. I think 1.5 weeks, posting the comp on a Wednesday and closing it on the 2nd Sunday would give two weekends to work on stuff.

I don't quite agree with limiting the background editing...maybe make it state that the road and car must be original, but allow editing of both (adding cracks to roads, dirt to cars, etc). I like the idea of adding background stuff like buildings, since I think the game will eventually have more scenery. The emphasis should be on the GT5 cars, since that's what we're showcasing, the awesomeness of GT5.


my idea of rules, are basically allowing what is normally not allowed in 2.0:

Alter the geometry of the car. Stickers, body modifications (aero kits, wheels, paint)
Add shapes or objects from outside of GT5 (as above, but keeping the car and environment original)
Add lens flares or "artistic" filters to image. (Basically any photo editing tools, as long as they're not breaking the other rules.)
Remove items from shot (in the context of cleaning up a shot, some mild object removal is ok to me, like a road sign or removing parts of a car like hood vents).
Use more than 1 image (HDR, photo-stitching, multi-exposure).
Selective car color changing: masking different parts to create racing stripes or similar.
Alter weather or similar effects (snow/rain/lightning)


The Heavy Edit thread is basically one long on-going 3.0 competition but with no poll or judge.

All entries must be new creations, nothing previously posted anywhere. Not even posted to other sites. The intent of this is to give the same amount of time for creations.

Actually this sounds pretty good to me snypir, I'd be fine with the comp like this. 👍
 
I think there is enough interest to start 3.0. We'll try it out with a trial first then.

3.0 will stick to weekly competitions.
No limit would be set on editing, but at least 1 car in the photo must be from the game.
Specific rules will be posted on the trial coming next week.

And once again, thanks to the GTP Photomode community, this is made possible. :) 👍
 
This is great news 👍 I really hope this is pulled off in such a way that it can grow and grow 👍

My thoughts (.... or reservations):
I'm from the camp that believes a 2 week time span for each comp would be perfect rather than weekly, time is my greatest enemy personally speaking and with this being a possible fifth competition the extra week would be a great help.
Also (and this might just be me :dunce:) but I think the whole idea of "themes" may ironically be its downfall. What I mean by that is the previous 3.0 trial may not have got off the ground due to the theme not really lending itself to the whole concept. A 3.0 competition means to throw the shackles off and being as creative as you possibly can. I would probably go as far as to say that each premise should be a one or two word idea or emotion eg: "Sadness", "On Reflection", "Heaven", "Elements", "Four Seasons", "Possession" or "Apocalypse" .....etc,etc I could go on. Thats all it needs and then its down to you and you alone to give us your interpretation.
I'm not saying specific old school themes should be ignored but this is how I think (and hope) this might be beneficial to the 3.0.

:guilty:Sorry for being late to chip in but as I said earlier 'time' and me don't always get on sometimes :sly:

Cheers Taiga for all your input and contribution for re-igniting the interest for a 3.0 competition :cheers:
 
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Just for the record. I'm in too! :sly:

It's the same as CCS mentioned. I dont have much time lately, but that never stopped me to enter at least one competition a week. ;)
 
Well, if it is of any help, here is a 3.0 style competition I used to host on GT4, with the characteristics CCShaft7 was saying about the theme.

I also have to agree with him, a PSC or 3.0 would have to have very open themes and no restrictions at all. It would work better if it has just a theme name/idea and a little explanation, but to be up to the one interpretation.

I also think, the 3.0 (being different from the PSC) should be restricted to GT5 ONLY, no outside objects from GT5. I say this because the concept of 3.0 is more about the image itself and less about doing a magazine or alter the car bodykit with external elements from GT (it would be okay if you used different GT5 images for that purpose) and so on.
 
I agree with the one-word themes. If the themes are left open and more unrestricted like Elements, or Four Seasons, as CCS said, that could produce some epic entries.

However for the duration of the competition, we'll stick with 1 week for the trial and then during the trial week gather feedback and maybe, if needed, lengthen it to 2 weeks instead.

And what Nick said was what I was trying to avoid as well- turning 3.0 effectively into PSC. Restricting it to in-game objects only is quite a tough call, as that would make stuff like weather edits out of the equation. But I do agree about not allowing to alter the body of cars and making magazines and stuff.

Thanks for all your interest guys! 👍
 
And what Nick said was what I was trying to avoid as well- turning 3.0 effectively into PSC. Restricting it to in-game objects only is quite a tough call, as that would make stuff like weather edits out of the equation. But I do agree about not allowing to alter the body of cars and making magazines and stuff.

Thanks for all your interest guys! 👍

Oh, I didn't make myself clear. What I meant to say was restrict to GT5 and what you can construct in Photoshop, otherwise it would make edits complicated. xD Disallowing elements from outside of GT5 (real photos), but allowing every single modification you can do to a picture with Photoshop or any other image editing program.
 
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