Points system to be replaced?

  • Thread starter Danny
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Here's the deal: With medals, things are going to get less close than they are now.

"Tied for wins, it will be down to the final race": Bollocks. It only went down to the wire because they were this close in the first place - it's not uncommon for a small points margin to include a larger discrepancy in the number of wins. Hamilton didn't cruise for a second there, he was fighting his best to keep that 5th place in the nasty conditions. Kimi could "cruise" at Brazil last year, because the Ferraris were invincible that day - not because he's lazy.

Points is the best way to keep things close - keep them balanced and fair like, for example, now, and everyone gets a share of the action. Add another point for a win, or pole, and there you go: Top teams will fight for the win and pole, and will need to score on most rounds to keep themselves in the championship fight. Mid-field teams get to battle fairly over four positions for eight-ten cars, while the backmarkers still have their odd shot at points.

We must remember, the old 10-6-4-3-2-1 system was used in the days when cars were far less reliable. Tyre-wars caused them to burst, engines were unreliable and prone to failure, and the cars themselves used to fail far more often. Even mid-backmarkers could score the odd point or two, and midfield teams had actual shots at podiums. These days, when McLaren only had failures on Kovalainen's car (two engines in two seasons! That's all!) and BMW Sauber backed it up with a nearly perfect reliability sheet, practically four of the top points-positions are reserved for the two top-teams, whoever they are. Remember just how hard Aguri and STR had to work last season to score - or how hard Honda needed some luck to grab a point here and there.


I still don't see what's wrong with the system now. It's bloody perfect. It rewards the top teams with a close battle to the finish, it gives the midfield four point-paying positions to fight for, and it doesn't give too many, either. Add a point for pole (and ditch Q3 fuel-loads, if you do that), and we're good to go...
 
wfooshee
I (and others) still ask: how can a championship that came down to the last turn be considered uncompetitive. And two consecutive 1-point margins in the championship. And nearly the whole year 4 guys within about 10 or 15 points of each other.
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Yes, because 2007 an 2008 were the only years the championship has ben run. Bernie's not thinking about the past, he's thinking about the future because not every championship is going to come down to the last round nder the current system.
 
In which case, he's not thinking about cases of a driver leading by 4 wins with 6 races to go, when points-wise they'd be almost equal, but with medals, would make the lead driver almost impossible to overcome. Kind of like a 25-point advantage.

If anything, we're the ones thinking about the future and past - under Bernie's system, championships will get wider. The only chance his system will play out right - a down-to-the-wire battle for a win at the final round - would be if they're tied into the final race. That same thing happens, basically, when the two finalists are down to a four-point gap (counting the leader's teammate as an extra force).
 
Do you race?
Yes, because 2007 an 2008 were the only years the championship has ben run. Bernie's not thinking about the past, he's thinking about the future because not every championship is going to come down to the last round nder the current system.
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Well its will more likely than with the medal system.
 
TBH, I think this whole medals-idiocy was just to cover up the Cosworth spec-engines nobody wanted, but whom are now in place...
 
Mt. Lynx
TBH, I think this whole medals-idiocy was just to cover up the Cosworth spec-engines nobody wanted, but whom are now in place...
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Cover up? But this was mentioned a while ago....I recall everyone being in uproar about it.
We already knew Mosley was going to push for it but he had to ask the teams first and come to an agreement with them, and clearly (and I think it was in the best interests of everyone) the teams decided to go halves with him and allow both spec-engines and custom built engines, so that at least new teams could buy a cheap(er) engine while not completely destroying the whole point of F1.
 
Ardius
Cover up? But this was mentioned a while ago....I recall everyone being in uproar about it.
We already knew Mosley was going to push for it but he had to ask the teams first and come to an agreement with them, and clearly (and I think it was in the best interests of everyone) the teams decided to go halves with him and allow both spec-engines and custom built engines, so that at least new teams could buy a cheap(er) engine while not completely destroying the whole point of F1.
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Exactly, that´s why Mr. E did what he did, so that the uproar would go elsewhere 💡
It´s just speculation on my part though, so don´t read into it very seriously.

The way I understood things, four teams were against it in the end, and they will keep their own engines, and also provide others with them, if others want them. So even if there is a spec engine, we may see it completely abandoned if it´s not competitive.
 
Indeed, I fully expect it will be dumped when the economy recovers though I think we might see Cosworth stick around a few more years because they do offer cheaper (generally) and overall better engines than some of the other independent engine suppliers. Depends how many more privateer teams make an appearance.
 
Just voted no to the medal system just to go against the grain.

Btw, nice photo there Bernie.
 
I voted no aswell. Hopefully most will say no to this dumb thing.

Somehow Mr. E has always reminded me of Montgomery Burns from The Simpsons... I don´t know why though...

I found an old poll for this aswell. It´s closed, and you don´t know how many votes it had, but the percentage is crushing!
Old poll
 
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I understand his desire to have every race be a battle for wins, but still...consistency has to account for something! Make the points gap bigger but don't give me that medals BS...
 
If I understand correctly a driver that would qualify 10th and finish every race on second place, would be outperformed by any racer with a first place finish.:confused: Sure this scenario is rather improbable, but hopefully so much for this medals thing.👎
 
Yes but if he can finish 2nd all the time, what's he doing qualifying 10th all the time?

I hope everybody votes to get this horrible medal idea kicked out.
 
Voted no.

I do understand some of his points but I think the winner should get 4 more points and give incentive to win and not play safe each week. Would Ferrari be happy with that?

It seems F1 (Bernie) is aiming for fewer teams (obviously the so called economic crisis not helping matters) with just a few household names and a more compact product in the future. This medal scheme would suit a small field.
 
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Vaxen
f1.gpupdate.net:

Clearly this proposed change would have the opposite effect. Points were extended from 6 places to 8 in order to keep the title fight alive longer. Shrinking it from 8 to 3 would make the last couple races meaningless for purposes of determining the championship.
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Yea i agree and it would of been easier for hamilton because there was nothing on for vettel to pass him so why bother just cruise home.

You really do wonder what these rich idiots are thinking when average people like us can think of better reasons.

And again all that amazing driving from Vettel an he gets no reward only one win which would make him as average as piquet!!!!

Someone needs to knock some sence into that old man. 👎
 
paolopepper
And again all that amazing driving from Vettel an he gets no reward only one win which would make him as average as piquet!!!!

Someone needs to knock some sence into that old man. 👎
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Did I miss a race this season? I didn't see Piquet win anything. In fact, I can only remember two specific drives where he did anything remotely decent and both were mostly due to massive luck (or rather, bad luck for his rivals).
Vettel got a great reward this season, he finished 8th overall and grabbed Toro Rosso, Red Bull (the company) and (ex-)Minardi's first win! What's more, he finished 4 places above Piquet, with almost double his points.

I don't see how you can say he's "as average as piquet", even with the proposed medal system, Vettel would be ahead of Piquet.
 
The point sistem has been in motorsport forever I think it's the worst idea from the old guy I ever heard:tdown:
 
When Daniel Craig was announced as the man who would take over from Pierce Brosnan as Ian Fleming's James Bond, a lot of people hated the idea for various reasons before they'd even seen him in the role. But Craig hs since proven to be not simply the heir apparent to Sean Connery as the James Bond, but that Connery was something of a caretaker for the role until Craig came along.

The point is that you shouldn't knock something until you try it. Bernie's medals system might actually have some merit to it ... not that everyone hee would know, because everyone seems intent upon blowing it out of the water before it comes about. I'm not saying that it's guaranteed to be a success, but that you shoud at least approach it with an open mind. Sometimes I get the idea that people hate Ecclestone simply because it's popular to do so.
 
Alex.
Yeah, Nelson got P2 at hockenheim, Vettel got P1 at Monza.
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He only got P2 because he got out of the pit lane in front of the Safety Car and then leapfrogged everyone else (except Lewis) the next lap round. :)
 
Do you race?
The point is that you shouldn't knock something until you try it. Bernie's medals system might actually have some merit to it ... not that everyone hee would know, because everyone seems intent upon blowing it out of the water before it comes about. I'm not saying that it's guaranteed to be a success, but that you shoud at least approach it with an open mind. Sometimes I get the idea that people hate Ecclestone simply because it's popular to do so.
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I somewhat doubt many people have come to a decision with a closed mind. The reason we're annoyed is that we have thought about it and we realise it would never work ever.
No, we don't hate Ecclestone because its the popular thing, we hate him because he makes decisions like this which are completely barmy and he happens to be a powerful man in F1. Do you blame people for caring about the sport they love? I for one don't want to see it ruined by Bernie's plans and if you need to some proof that its not just the fans of F1 looking at Bernie with confused faces, I believe the FIA and Max Mosley aren't too pleased with the way he's handling things either. Nor are the teams.

I have to really question whether you have really thought about this medal system at all? How can you honestly say it has any chance of bettering a points system which allowed us to have a championship decided on the final corner, last lap of the last race? It won't, it certainly will never come down to the last corner ever again. So far I've yet to hear a positive thing about it over the points system.

I'd rather never see this system in F1 than they have it tried for a year and that one year be completely ruined because of it.
 
Do you race?
When Daniel Craig was announced as the man who would take over from Pierce Brosnan as Ian Fleming's James Bond, a lot of people hated the idea for various reasons before they'd even seen him in the role. But Craig hs since proven to be not simply the heir apparent to Sean Connery as the James Bond, but that Connery was something of a caretaker for the role until Craig came along.
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That's a truly awful analogy, particularly since the analogy itself is arguable.

Pierce>Craig IMO as good as craig is.

Still far besides the point. Other than the shouting, many people made valuable OBJECTIVE reasons why a medal system wouldn't work, and SUBJECTIVELY everyone hated the idea too.

On a side note; your analogy seems very SUBJECTIVE based for that matter ;).

The medal system on paper looks rubbish, and in reality I am struggling to see it will look any better, nothing that time is going to sweeten really.

The point is that you shouldn't knock something until you try it. Bernie's medals system might actually have some merit to it ... not that everyone hee would know, because everyone seems intent upon blowing it out of the water before it comes about. I'm not saying that it's guaranteed to be a success, but that you shoud at least approach it with an open mind. Sometimes I get the idea that people hate Ecclestone simply because it's popular to do so.
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Here's an analogy from me.

Hey, Don't knock suicide until you've tried it. Don't knock cutting your arms off until you've tried it. There are plenty of things where we can look objectively and say without test that its probably a bad idea. The medal system is one of them, I don't want to see a year wasted testing the idea.

I have many reasons for dislking Ecclestone other than 'just because its popular'. Defend Bernie if you want but I don't see much worth defending if you ask me.
 
The great thing about changing how things are scored is that we can test it by retroactively applying it to previous seasons.

Bernie wasn't satisfied by the WDC being settled on the second last corner of the season and claims to want to introduce the Medal system to make situations where a driver simply has to show up and finish 5th on the last race a thing of the past. You know, to make it more exciting. So, let's retroactively apply the system to previous seasons - 10 years should do it.

2008
Points to 8th - Hamilton wins, race 18/18
Medals to 3rd - Massa wins, race 18/18 (pending inevitable legal action over Spa)
2007
Points to 8th - Raikonnen wins, race 17/17
Medals to 3rd - Raikonnen wins, race 17/17
2006
Points to 8th - Alonso wins, race 18/18
Medals to 3rd - Alonso wins, race 18/18
2005
Points to 8th - Alonso wins, race 18/19
Medals to 3rd - Alonso wins, race 19/19
2004
Points to 8th - Schumacher wins, race 17/18
Medals to 3rd - Schumacher wins, race 10/18
2003
Points to 8th - Schumacher wins, race 16/16
Medals to 3rd - Schumacher wins, race 15/16
2002
Points to 8th - Schumacher wins, race 11/17
Medals to 3rd - Schumacher wins, race 11/17
2001
Points to 6th - Schumacher wins, race 13/17
Points to 8th - Schumacher wins, race 14/17
Medals to 3rd - Schumacher wins, race 13/17
2000
Points to 6th - Schumacher wins, race 16/17
Points to 8th - Schumacher wins, race 17/17
Medals to 3rd - Schumacher wins, race 15/17
1999
Points to 6th - Hakinnen wins, race 16/16
Points to 8th - Hakinnen wins, race 16/16
Medals to 3rd - Hakinnen wins, race 16/16

So, over the course of 10 seasons, the medal system would have made no difference at all to the length of 6 seasons, made one season one race longer than it actually was and 3 seasons shorter than they actually were - in one case making the season SEVEN races shorter. On two of the three seasons were points were distributed across the top six, the top-8 points system made the season longer than either that OR the medal system. And, lest we forget, it would have turned last season's Spa debacle into legal hell, as the three stewards effectively took the title from Hamilton and gave it to Massa...

In terms of making the season longer and thus, in Bernie's terms, more exciting, Top 8 Points outperforms Top 6 Points and both outperform Top 3 Medals over the last 10 F1 seasons.


Incidentally, would Medals make F1 more like Davis Cup Tennis or Matchplay Golf? Would the drivers continue to race the "dead rubbers", or would they just finish the season when the winner can't be caught - Schumacher wins 9&7...
 
I fear in that case, Bernie will use the part in the Concorde agreement that stipulates that every team must bring two drivers to every round...
 
Its fair enough looking back at the schumacher dominance years, but we must apply the rule changes and 2009 drivers, as we really have no clue who can do well in races and who can't. We saw 6 winners this season, wheras schumacher seasons didnt have that sheer unpredictability.
 
But no matter how, it won't really make a season "last longer", it'll be unfair to the bottom teams, and it's not suitable at all to a sport where reliability and performance-differences between teams exist.

A spec-series, fair: Everyone has his chance, cars are equal, it's up to the setup and the driver's skill. But in F1, an STR doesn't usually have the chance to win. I can guarantee you 100% that Vettel pushed at every race just like he did at Monza - but it took special conditions for that victory to materialize. It's simply not feasible in a performance-differing series.
 

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