Points system to be replaced?

  • Thread starter Danny
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World Series!

Anyone want to place bets on them changing it back if a Ferrari driver doesn't win under the current system but would have under the previous one?
 
ExigeEvan
Is every championship position after first sorted by points? Could that mean you're challenging for the title in the final race and then finish 5th overall?


SuperBowl champions get a ring saying World Champions, but all the teams are from one country...
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Not to mention the baseball world series.
 
Let's be serious, there aren't any international professional teams that would challenge any NFL or MLB team.

/off-topic mini-rant

EDIT: I was going to link to a couple of stories about the matter from ESPN, but they as well as the general public commenting on the articles are so far gone. Most people think this is a conspiracy to guarantee Ferrari a championship or a way to keep anyone but them and McLaren from winning. :dunce:
 
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A possible "fair" scoring system could include finishing as well.
18 rounds -18 finishes. Multiply the points by the number of finishes, say 18 =1.8 - 83points x 1.8=149 110 points but only 13 finishes 110x1.3=143

This totally opposite to what Bernie is trying to acheive, as he thinks that winning is everything,by the way the scoring is structured now.

Giving consistancy, the championship will not be decided until "all" cars are finished the final race. Far more exciting than 3 olympic style medallions.
 
To those who believe the IndyCar Series isn't a world championship: No other major racing series in the world challenges its drivers with a balanced mix of oval/road/street racing. A diverse driver lineup faces that challenge, and only the best teams and drivers win on all types of tracks. This year, the IndyCar Series races in North America and Asia. In the past, IndyCars (under various sanctioning bodies) also raced in South America, Australia, and Europe. And so what if IndyCar teams are based in the US? All F1 teams are based in Europe, but F1 is a world championship.

To those who believe MLB's World Series isn't a World Series: MLB teams send scouts around the world to sign players. As a result, Today's MLB features the best baseball players from around the world (including star players from Latin America and Japan).

To those who believe the NFL's Super Bowl isn't a world championship: The best American football players in the world play in the NFL.
 
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Toronado, you have to take into account that the US is comparable to Europe in terms of total area. Logistics dictate that you should base your team where the majority of the schedule is run. So IndyCar teams are based in the US because most IndyCar races are held in the US. Most F1 teams are based in Europe because most F1 races used to be held in Europe. You can thank Bernie Eccelstone for abandoning European tracks. And why is F1 still considered a world championship even though it no longer races in North America or Africa? :lol:

As for the NFL... It's not our fault the rest of the world (aside from Canada) doesn't play American football. I also point out the fact that Canadian football players try to get into the NFL because that's where the best play.
 
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VNAF Ace
To those who believe the IndyCar Series isn't a world championship: No other major racing series in the world challenges its drivers with a balanced mix of oval/road/street racing. A diverse driver lineup faces that challenge, and only the best teams and drivers win on all types of tracks. This year, the IndyCar Series races in North America and Asia. In the past, IndyCars (under various sanctioning bodies) also raced in South America, Australia, and Europe. And so what if IndyCar teams are based in the US? All F1 teams are based in Europe, but F1 is a world championship.
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Actually the best argument that the IndyCar Series is a world championship would be to explain that the talent (drivers, engineers, etc) come from all over the world, and where they compete isn't as relevant.
 
Peterjford, I did say the IndyCar Series' driver lineup is diverse. Perhaps I should've specified that IndyCar drivers and engineers do indeed come from all over the world. Thanks for making that clearer.
 
But Indycar itself isn't sold as a media package all over the world... not like Formula One or A1GP is.

I remember the FedEx CART (which became CHAMP) days, fondly... that was a truly international series with international appeal... which, strangely, was the reason for the formation of IndyCar... which posed as a venue for American drivers to compete, because the foreign drivers were just killing the locals in CART.

It's only recently, with the disastrous death of CHAMP that IndyCar managed to gain some of that internationality with former CHAMP car teams and drivers... but it still doesn't have the international reach that the other two series do.

I mourn the passing of CART... running on a large variety of ovals and streets... having a huge dollop of horsepower... those were some spectacularly fast cars... and with drivers from around the world... it was probably the closest to F1 any other open-wheeled racing series has gotten... :(
 
A1GP isn't exactly sold as a media package around the world. We Americans don't get A1GP on TV at all. I watch A1GP races online to cheer on Team USA and Marco Andretti, but I don't consider it as great as the IndyCar Series. A1GP cars only output 540 HP (600 HP with PowerBoost) as opposed to IndyCars which output 650 HP. A1GP also doesn't have oval racing. And the 2008-2009 A1GP season only features 7 races while the 2009 IndyCar Series features 17 races.

I hope you start following IndyCar racing again though. Last year's re-united IndyCar Series featured great competition. The future is looking brighter with the IndyCar Series moving towards an even 50/50 mix of oval and road/street racing. More powerful turbocharged engines for the next generation IndyCar. If the economy recovers sooner rather than later, the next generation IndyCar will debut in 2011. Dallara will build the chassis which will hopefully be powered by turbocharged Honda, VW, and Fiat engines. Note that VW and Fiat haven't settled on which brand they will promote. Personally, I'm hoping VW chooses to promote Porsche and Fiat chooses to promote Ferrari in the 2011 IndyCar Series. If all goes well, the 2011 IndyCar Series will be like the CART IndyCar World Series of the early 1990s.
 
I'll respond to part of your post in the appropiate thread, Ace. :)
 
VNAF Ace
. . No other major racing series in the world challenges its drivers with a balanced mix of oval/road/street racing.
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You absolutely right, but its still boring to me. I don't like oval racing, or street racing (Monaco is the exception). That, and all the cars are identical (Bernie & Max's wet dream).

I'm glad you like IndyCar racing though. To each his own.👍
 
Lofasz, all IndyCar teams run Dallara-Hondas, but they are still allowed to modify the wings, mirrors, and sidepods on their own to improve their cars' aerodynamics. And like I said, if all goes well, the 2011 IndyCar Series will feature multiple manufacturers. The IRL may attract more than just Honda, Fiat, and VW if the FIA continues to price themselves out of North America and Europe. FOTA also isn't pleased with the FIA for eliminating the points system and proposing to split F1 into 2 classes. Max Mosley's ridiculous proposal would have factory teams free to spend whatever they want to build cars to a set of restrictions and while private teams have the freedom to build whatever they want under as long as they stay under a 30 million Euro budget cap.
 
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On topic, please...A separate IndyCar discussion (or Indy-versus-F1) would belong in a another thread; nobody's even discussing the way IndyCar chooses to dole out points.

I wonder if we will see more "technical cheating" in F1, now that winning takes priority over consistency. It has always been a part of the sport in some way - it will likely never go away completely - but if you change the means to the end, there is more potential for rule bending. I suppose with the spec-series that F1 is becoming, this will be reduced, but teams do not (usually!) spend their millions to give away secrets and not take advantage of loopholes, and even lobby for an advantage.
 
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Pupik
On topic, please...A separate IndyCar discussion (or Indy-versus-F1) would belong in a another thread; nobody's even discussing the way IndyCar chooses to dole out points.

I wonder if we will see more "technical cheating" in F1, now that winning takes priority over consistency. It has always been a part of the sport in some way - it will likely never go away completely - but if you change the means to the end, there is more potential for rule bending. I suppose with the spec-series that F1 is becoming, this will be reduced, but teams do not spend their millions to give away secrets and not take advantage of loopholes, and even lobby for an advantage.
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Yeah we will, almost certainly. There is no way teams will not use team orders now. Drivers will be told privately before a race and the FIA won't be able to prove it. Also expect a few to try and win the race on the first corner and cause carnage. This system won't be good, I am sure of that. Because of this very system I'd pick Alonso to win the world title.
 
Pupik
I wonder if we will see more "technical cheating" in F1, now that winning takes priority over consistency. It has always been a part of the sport in some way - it will likely never go away completely - but if you change the means to the end, there is more potential for rule bending.
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I would bet that we'll see "team orders" come into play much more frequently, even though it's officially illegal. Take Famine's hypothetical scenario:

Famine
Driver A - 4 wins, 4 seconds, 1 third, 1 seventh = 80 points
Driver B - 4 wins, 4 seconds, 1 fourth, 1 fifth = 79 points
Driver C - 5 wins, 12 DNFs = 50 points & champion!
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Now imagine that Driver A and Driver B are on the same team.

You can bet that there would be some manipulation to ensure that didn't happen.
 
I hate the new "most wins in a season rule". It just makes things boring. Hamilton got less wins than Massa for 2008, but Massa got more DQ's and lower places than Hamilton. Thats why this all happened. Change the rules back.
 
VNAF Ace
To those who believe the IndyCar Series isn't a world championship: No other major racing series in the world challenges its drivers with a balanced mix of oval/road/street racing. A diverse driver lineup faces that challenge, and only the best teams and drivers win on all types of tracks. This year, the IndyCar Series races in North America and Asia. In the past, IndyCars (under various sanctioning bodies) also raced in South America, Australia, and Europe. And so what if IndyCar teams are based in the US? All F1 teams are based in Europe, but F1 is a world championship.

To those who believe MLB's World Series isn't a World Series: MLB teams send scouts around the world to sign players. As a result, Today's MLB features the best baseball players from around the world (including star players from Latin America and Japan).

To those who believe the NFL's Super Bowl isn't a world championship: The best American football players in the world play in the NFL.
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I'm sorry but that's terrible reasoning, if all it takes to be a 'world championship' is to have participants from a wide range of countries taking part then just about every sporting series in the UK could be said to be a world championship.

Rugby, Cricket, Football, Ice Hockey, Basketball, etc. Using your own logic every single one of these in the UK is now a world championship. After all these all source players/coaches/managers from around world.

Back on topic the new points/win system I don't rate as a good idea at all. It 'could' work, but it could also fall flat on its face, and I strongly suggest its going to be the 'fail' option of these two.


Scaff
 
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PJ-FFL
I hate the new "most wins in a season rule". It just makes things boring. Hamilton got less wins than Massa for 2008, but Massa got more DQ's and lower places than Hamilton. Thats why this all happened. Change the rules back.
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You acn't honstly believe that. The reason for the change is so that in the event that two drivers go into the final round equal on wins, both of them will push to take the chequered flag first, rather thn have one guy fart around in fifth because he only needs a handful of points to secure the title.
 
Do you race?
You acn't honstly believe that. The reason for the change is so that in the event that two drivers go into the final round equal on wins, both of them will push to take the chequered flag first, rather thn have one guy fart around in fifth because he only needs a handful of points to secure the title.
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To say that the drivers don't go to the grid to win in the first place is rediculous, the driver goes to finish in the best possible position regardless of championship status (other than team orders, if you're the second driver). Sure, the driver can relax a bit more than his rival when it comes to the last race because of his points advantage, but sure he earnt that through consistent scoring?

Bottom line is, there wasn't an issue with the current system beyond maybe making the podium places worth more, such as FOTA's proposal (which would achieve the effect you mention but in a far better way).
Really, this whole thing seems like a smoke-screen to hide the real issue in the rule changes - 2 different rules on budgets!!! What's this all about? We shouldn't have different rules for different teams and they certainly shouldn't be trying to artificially make backender teams competitive again. I think what FOTA have done so far is plenty steps in the right direction as far as cost cutting is going.
 
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Do you race?
You acn't honstly believe that. The reason for the change is so that in the event that two drivers go into the final round equal on wins, both of them will push to take the chequered flag first, rather thn have one guy fart around in fifth because he only needs a handful of points to secure the title.
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With this new system it's much more probable that in the last stages of a championship there will be a guy "farting around" * in whatever place because with the wins he has he doesn't need one single point to be champion.


* my knowledge of the english language keeps getting better with each visit to gtplanet :D
 
Do you race?
You acn't honstly believe that. The reason for the change is so that in the event that two drivers go into the final round equal on wins, both of them will push to take the chequered flag first, rather thn have one guy fart around in fifth because he only needs a handful of points to secure the title.
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And what if one driver were to win the first 9 races of the season?

The rest would be pointless.

A better spread of points in regard to position (as suggested) would work far better than this half-arsed idea that Bernie was determined to force through.

I honestly think that he just pulled this idea out of thin air in an interview and then didn't what to back down from it, and as a results we now have a rule change put in place far to close the start of the season and one that could well cause untold damage to the credibility of the sport itself.

I have to say if you are putting your self forward as a supporter of this change you may well find yourself in a very small minority.


Regards

Scaff
 
Vaxen
Now imagine that Driver A and Driver B are on the same team.

You can bet that there would be some manipulation to ensure that didn't happen.
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This is the weird part.

Given Ferrari is the only team expected to have two real title contenders... wouldn't this rule hurt them much more than other teams? (so much for the Ferrari conspiracy)

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I was thinking (elsewhere)... can we make this like our old College teachers did back when they were feeling really sadistic? Scoring system is "Right minus Wrong".

Winner gets 10 points. Everyone else gets 9. If the guy with the fastest lap isn't the winner, he gets +1 point. This encourages the winner push extra hard to deny second place that point.

For every ten seconds you are behind the winner, minus one point. If you are more than 100 seconds behind the winner, then, obviously, you get zero points.

If you are lapped, no matter how many seconds behind, you get -1 point. -1 point for every lap behind you are, up to a maximum of -4 points. DNF nets you -5.

That should make for some pretty interesting racing, don'tcha think?
 
niky
Given Ferrari is the only team expected to have two real title contenders... wouldn't this rule hurt them much more than other teams? (so much for the Ferrari conspiracy)
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Well, if the cars are competitive, Brawn, Toyota, BMW and possibly Red Bull have fairly even drivers that could both have legitimate hopes of a WDC. It hurts them, as well as the viewer by these potential great intra-team battles being completely thrown out the window.

Mclaren and Renault clearly can benefit. But those are the only two potentially top teams that look to be unaffected/less affected by the change.
 
Do you race?
. . . rather thn have one guy fart around in fifth because he only needs a handful of points to secure the title.
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Here comes the wambulance.

Its called strategy. The enging power was tuned back a bit, to give him a greater factor of safety, in terms of reliabilty. When you go into the final round in the lead, you've earned the luxury of not having to push the car. I don't see what's wrong or unsporting about that.

I guess in Bernie's eyes it means less of a show. Like many have already said, Bernie cares more about making F1 a spectacle, than he does about good racing. Valencia and Singapore are two other great examples. The only silver lining is that Bernie and Max are likely to die soon. I only hope that they don't run F1 into the ground before they check out.
 
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