POLL - Do you think DR reset at SR C is fair?

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Haitauer, May 24, 2019.

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Do you think DR reset at SR C is fair?

  1. Yes - you deserve it you dirty old..

    50 vote(s)
    74.6%
  2. No! - people just have bad days and all is forgiven..

    17 vote(s)
    25.4%
  1. Haitauer

    Haitauer

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    If you are not familiar with DR reset - it’s when your SR drops to C and your DR gets reset to 15000 no matter how much higher it was before.

    What do you think? Dont let my ramble below sway you.

    This race and one 4sec penalty in previous race dropped me to SR C - from 69 to 30 i recall and cost me some 19000 dr points - from 34000dr to 15000dr. Points ive been slowly gathering for ~9months. Fair? You tell me..

     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  2. kilesa4568

    kilesa4568

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    2,357
    I guess you already know you can't have an SR two levels below your DR? Dropping just one SR level should have you walking on egg shells until you recover it again.

    A good DR is nice but SR should always come first.
     
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  3. Outspacer

    Outspacer

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    My answer is: No! - because it unjustly takes DR from all those you play against while getting your DR back to its normal level.

    (I just mean the DR points; the DR letter can do whatever it wants).
     
  4. Haitauer

    Haitauer

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    Sadly SR is a bit of a broken thing, as SR A is much cleaner than SR S. I think this reset should be gone, and sr limits go up. Sr A 85 and sr S 95.. something like that.
     
  5. Lazybike

    Lazybike

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    476
    SR needs sorting out! Don't cap it at 99, make it harder to get to S, but then make it easier to stay at S, at the moment you only need a couple of unlucky races, and you're on the brink of a reset. Of course it's worse at the moment as the penalty system gives a penalty to the car which is hit from behind, I understand there can be an issue with brake checking but at the moment the system is a bit silly.
     
  6. watto79

    watto79

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    My short answer is yes, I absolutely support DR resets for a low SR rating. I agree with Lazybike that it should be harder to get to S, but I disagree that it should be easier to keep. It should be just as hard to keep as it is to get. At the moment too many people use an SR of 99 as money in the bank to be aggressive knowing that they will still be S ranked and can very easily make up any SR they've 'spent'.

    My longer answer...
    Looking at your race, it's difficult to see using the cinematic view. Chase-cam would show a lot more of what is going on. Lap 1 turn 1 you punt off the car in the lead immediately giving yourself a penalty that of course puts you mid-pack. If you'd not done that you would likely have been fine for the whole race. I don't think you did it on purpose but the penalty was deserved.
    First half of the race you then seem to find yourself in a number of turn 1 incidents caused by nothing more than congestion, which is unfortunate and difficult to avoid.
    I enjoyed your undercut pit strategy, especially when you got out of the pits and through the first chicane right in front of a train of cars. That was pretty exciting :tup:
    You are immediately being hounded by a Swiss racer in a GTR. Because of the camera angle it's really difficult to see but it looks like you are not defending very well, neither committing to a defensive line or staying on the racing line. This leads to some contact. Swiss GTR gets alongside you before Lesmo 2 and you turn into him pushing him off track. Yes it's a silly place to attempt an overtake (just follow through Lesmo 2 and use the slipstream before Ascari), but you could have handled that better and given them room. The following lap you punt someone through the second chicane giving yourself another penalty.

    I prioritise SR way above DR and I wish more people did. Getting and maintaining a high SR is actually pretty easy, especially in the longer races as long as you are careful.

    My advice would be to learn from this and have some fun getting your DR back. Looking at your stats you went from 20k to 34k in 7 days, so you should be back up to DR A pretty quickly.

    All just my opinion, others will have different opinions :)

    EDIT - Just to add, if you went into that race with an SR of 69, you should have been a lot more careful given the risks, and focusing on raising your SR rather than racing.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  7. daan

    daan Moderator

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    Kudosprime and the like have a lot to answer for. People get so hung up on how good, or bad, their DR and SR are. Unless you're @Tidgney or @TRL LIGHTNING or the like and want access to the 'high class' events, it does not matter for the rest of us.

    I think I'm BA at the minute. I think I was BB last week, but other than that, I don't know or care what the exact numbers are. I was BS for a while but occasionally I'll do a race that I like even though I end up getting battered about a bit and I'll drop down some SR. I'll enjoy the race and have fun and my SR can do what it wants. My DR is pretty static because I am where I am.

    We know the rating system is broken. We know how we gain, and lose, ratings. I don't understand how the system can be blamed for losing points when we know how it works, or doesn't work.

    If you are so hung up on getting high numbers, then don't put yourself in a position where it's likely you'll lose some. I know we cannot control others and we cannot stop them from hitting us, but at some point you need to make the decision to either fight in mid pack, and lose loads of numbers, or to just give it up and get out of there and not lose any numbers (or very few.)
     
  8. Lazybike

    Lazybike

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    476
    That for me is the problem...you have to stop racing, then you're just driving around looking at the radar. I started today at 77SR and 23865DR, I've done 2 races at DTG and I'm now 91SR and 25207DR as I've said before SR needs to be harder to get, I finished 2nd and 4th! I used to "save" a daily race purely for recovering SR, so no qually and just drive around at the back, but if you have a limited amount of time to play it gets a bit tedious.
     
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  9. MikeV27

    MikeV27

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    Yes, too many people take the safety rating for granted.
     
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  10. breeminator

    breeminator

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    569
    That actually shows the system is working. People whose SR is putting them in danger of their DR being reset are driving cleaner to avoid the reset.
     
  11. watto79

    watto79

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    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I agree with the sentiment of your post but don't agree with this point fully. In any sport its good to know where you stand against your fellow competitors. I like to know how I'm doing against my PSN friends, people on GTPlanet and yes sometimes even the top players. Knowing where I am helps me improve and gives me personal goals to target.

    I do some endurance running and like to know where I am for my age group and against people I know. I'm never going to compete against Mo Farah but it is still good to know.

    I think what I'm saying that even though I'm DRB, it still matters to me.

    That said, I do agree that some people get too hung up on DR and drive less than cleanly because of it.
     
  12. kilesa4568

    kilesa4568

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    2,357
    In the old days, you could work everything out from lap times and the other driver's behaviour.:p

    KP, as interesting a site as it is has got far too many people micro-managing their racing when there's really no need to though. You can only do one race at a time and your DR/SR puts you where you need to be at that time.

    Looking at your nice and consistent stats (:tup:), those little dots signifying days are tiny and your SR (another :tup:) is flat lining. What's to manage?
     
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  13. VFOURMAX1

    VFOURMAX1

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    Personally I am of the opinion that DR once earned should be retained as that rating reflects a persons skill level not his manners or safe driving practices on track.

    By resetting DR ranks lower you just invite more skilled racers to race dirty to get a DR reset and have easier races among lesser skilled drivers which punishes the lesser skilled drivers by being forced to race against competition that may actually have skills several ranking levels above them.

    Keep the highest DR rank earned and force these dirty racers to race against other lower safety level racers that have equal DR rankings rather than reward them by giving them the gift of easy race wins against actual lower lever DR racers that are racing at their real skill levels.

    Same as only one active game account should be allowed to be used per racer. Its all about the accountability as someone may not care about the carnage or the points on a 2nd or 3rd account and for that reason should be forced to use only one account as all their actions in game will affect their ratings.
     
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  14. dabz343

    dabz343

    Messages:
    446
    I would like the punishment to go further.

    Everyone that receives a DR reset due to a plunging SR should be placed on probation with a SR P designation. They will be allowed to enter Sport races, but their DR will not receive/lose any points, while their SR will be scrutinized. In order to get out of probation, drivers must achieve 10 consecutive clean races AND 10 consecutive race results in the upper half of the grid.

    Some will dip their toes and will never want to return, while others will be habitual offenders that will never find a way back. It's time to isolate the consistent offenders that are ruining GTS for the majority and proactively supporting drivers that genuinely desire to improve their skills.

    I hear you daan, but if PD is going to implement a statistical measure, then I prefer to have the measurement be valuable at some level. Apathy doesn't work well for me personally.
     
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  15. watto79

    watto79

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    You make a very good point that I don't have a good answer for :lol:
    Only that I don't want my DR to be consistent. I want it to go up. Just because!
     
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  16. Haitauer

    Haitauer

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    Thats the funny thing. Im usually the clean racer who rather lets someone pass than try hang side by side through corner. Just to avoid contact. "Consistent offenders" is not where i am as these bad races happen very rarely and i dont even push people next to me like many do. Thats the system not working. It should count from a longer period and be less dependent on single races

    Then theres races like monza, where you have to try hanging close to not loose draft on next straight. Even slightly early braking from the car infront and theres not much you can do. Like you see me trying to evade and brake.

    Second thing is that the game doesnt penalize as much if victim stays on track. In most of the races i get hit to back or side but am still able to brake and stay on track. If the victim is able to recover without running off track (usually still slowing you down as much or more than driving off), the pusher benefits. No logic there. Game still doesnt understand the aftermath of an incident. Some even run off track on purpose to inflict penalty for contact.
     
  17. kilesa4568

    kilesa4568

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    2,357
    Keeping an eye on your KP stats is like the old 'watched pot' saying. Ignore it for a month and you could reach A+!:dopey:
     
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  18. Groundfish

    Groundfish

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    1,020
    I wish KP didn’t post sr dr numbers.
    I think sr s should be more difficult to get and retain.
     
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  19. Dmac72

    Dmac72

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    136
    Rediculous with the current penalty system.
     
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  20. PerformLAB1

    PerformLAB1

    Messages:
    135
    I took the time to watch the entire video in order to try and give appropriate feedback and be constructive on this, I won't get into the details of the other people's wrong doing, and try to stick to why I think a DR Reset after 1-2 races like this is warranted.

    1. Lap 1 Turn 1, and at 15:00 Mark: You miscalculate your position following the car in front of you, and punt them into Narnia, not this is an accident, but one that could be avoided, you seem to be a bit too aggressive, by that I mean that you are full throttle until the last possible moment, at which point you slam the brakes as hard as you can to make the corner, which in draft, makes it even harder to accomplish.

    My Tip for this: Try releasing the throttle 50-60 ft earlier and "coasting" until braking time, this will decrease your chances of having such accidents, and will also allow you to avoid other peoples accidents easier. You will barely lose any speed while coasting due to draft effect, however you will reduce the brake input required to slow down to the necessary speed, increase your time to react to changing situations, and as a BONUS, you will decrease your tire wear by a good margin!

    2. You side swiped another mustang on Lap 3 Straight before Turn 1 while moving to overtake the GTR.

    My Tip: I noticed you are running the track map as your "widget". I would recommend switching this to the radar, and making it a habit of actually using it (It'll be hard at first to constantly keep a roaming eye on it, but after a while it will become natural. Once you use that, accidents like this will very rarely happen to you.

    3. At 11:15, you swerve towards the racing line quite abruptly to prepare for the next corner, and cover the room that was open for the opponent.

    My Tip: This is actually a great move to do in real life, where all drivers are aware of their surroundings, however in this game, with mostly casual racers, is would have been safer for your SR to simply keep the inside, take the chicane, possibly lose a position, but likely not, and keep going.

    4. At 11:34, Kind of the same situation as the previous corner, would have been safer to simply stay on the middle of the track instead of swerving towards the racing line, you "opened" a door for him to put his nose, and he used you as a moving barrier. Keep in mind, you are not to blame on this incident, I am simply pointing out the way I have been using to avoid these useless SR drops.


    I see a lot of people complaining about this, yet, when you look at most of the top guys, the clean guys, they rarely have even slight dips in their SR's, mine is a consistent 99, with the very occasional drop to 90, and rarely do I get contact penalties. I think the SR/DR resets are entirely justified, and furthermore, not strict enough. A 1 week ban from sport races or something along these lines would probably be better, and keep people driving better.

    If I take this particular race as an example (and the fact that you said the previous one was similar) this race involved 2 major incidents for which you are at fault, 1 minor incident for which you are at fault, and 2 other "incidents" if you can call them that, which could have been avoided by a safer driving style, and multiply this by 2 races, I don't see a problem with the DR/SR Reset.

    Come race with us anytime, and I guarantee you will notice your SR will get on an upwards path, seriously, you are more than welcome to (Any room including XS Speed in the title on American servers)
     
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  21. Haitauer

    Haitauer

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    First of all thank you for taking the time to look it through.

    Spot on, but with few toughts from my own intentions leading to accidents.

    1st corner - i tend to brake late to get quickly around the first right and avoid being hit from behind - sadly exactly what i ended up doind to the guy in front trying to brake earlier for fast exit.:boggled: i tried to anticipate his possible braking by going far left and avoid the hit if he brakes, but there just wasnt enough space and i didnt react enough to dodge off track - have done that dive outside few times at monza to not hit the car in front. Usually i drive less agressive and start braking softly before braking point to modulate braking according to car in front.

    What comes to radar, ive been using it always since it was implemented (was it during beta maybe..) I think the map there is just messed up replay dash. the thing is as i use the roof/hoodcam with 55" tv at 80cm distance my sight is quite high up the screen, and i actually have to look down for the radar. Must have been concentrating on whats up ahead too much and missed the radar.

    The sway to racing line is something from the real world like you said. First directing the competition to take the inside before the corner and then taking less tight angle my self. It is a bit of a risky move, but i tend to pull it off by leaving enough space inside for them to make the turn and then matching my speed to move back in front or behind them depending how situation plays out. Usually if passed ending up right to their tail for the next straight. This way i try to give room for people not to rear end me but rather be side by side. 90% (maybe 20% at monza turn 1:guilty:) of the time the guy ending up to the inside entry line brakes early and moves behind me (and i see this from the radar), but if this doesnt happen i coast my way around the outside of the bend. This is risky at monza as ending up to that line put you sideways to tight 2nd turn of the shikane and one can only hope the others give room.

    What actually made this so disastrous this time around was my more than usual competitive mindset. Usually if these things backfire i take it cool and just run along carefully the rest of the race to finish safe and sound some where around 5th/6th place. (470 races, over 200 top5 finishes with just 22 wins) Now i found my self enjoying the heat of the competition and kept pushing. That backfired worth of 19000 points.. bad desicion.

    Like they say - road to hell is paved with good intentions. Works well in racing too.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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  22. splitwindow

    splitwindow

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    What if instead of being dynamic and changing every race the SR was a long term average of every result you've ever had?

    There would be no more gaming a single race c to score an instant and cheap 30 SR points, and no more DR resets for getting caught up in one bad race that doesn't represent your true rankings.
     
  23. Groundfish

    Groundfish

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    1,020
    Then you could go dirtier on key races with more or less impunity imo.
    One race should be able to cause total reset or time out imo.
    You dropped a certain amount of sr point in one race?
    You are banned from gains for x amount of miles or wins.
    Maybe that’s harsh and should only apply to sr s I dunno.
    I dunno the solution, but imo they should make sr s harder to attain.
    The problem with it all is that if you make sr s harder to attain people who are that sr won’t race they will just drive around carefully.
    I always go back to I liked the initial system of shared fault for contact.
    You tube spoke, Pd listened and we have what we have...
    It’s no easy problem to solve...
     
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  24. Haitauer

    Haitauer

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    Im also thinking there could be better options. What we need could be longer penalties like 10 sec from current 4sec to truly throw you to the back of the pack in a race instead of losing so much SR on one race. Also a posibility of dq should be strong enough deterrent to not drive dirty in the first place.

    Losing and gaining SR could be exponential. The more clean races you have in a row the more sr you get, but also we need a "dirty race streak" where the more constantly dirty you have been the more sr you lose.

    Meaning one bad race shouldnt ruin your SR let alone two bad races ruining your DR, but a bad race should ruin that one race and a single penalty should proberly ruin a race. Constant (5 to 10 races) dirty racing should really ruin your sr.
     
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  25. Riptide

    Riptide Premium

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    Even though the DR SR system has much to improve, I believe with proper race craft and properly applying one's mind, staying around SR S or at least A is very simple while pushing hard. So my answer to your question is YES.
     
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  26. Tidgney

    Tidgney Premium

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    To be fair with the current points situation even I'm not bothered about my DR anymore, in fact I wish it was lower in the current situation haha! People do get hung up way to much on DR though. If the FIA points system made more sense (Tiered system, rather than random points thrown everywhere) I could see why people would get hung up but at the moment, it really shouldn't matter unless you're literally one of the top 10 drivers in nations or in the META car for a particular round in Manufacturers. Try to enjoy the game as best as you can as daan does :)!
     
  27. Fudman420

    Fudman420

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    I don't think it's fair at all. I've had a 99 SR for quite a while and I try and prioritize my SR over my DR. This weeks daily at monza is a killer. On multiple occasions I've had cars ghost when serving penalties side by side on that small stretch of road only to have them unghost causing me to hit them and cost myself 5 sec penalty and a big hit to SR. When they serve the penalty side by side it causes a situation where there is no where to go but in the grass or through one of them or down the middle. I've also had 2 different people blow their braking point and blast me into another car. The game then sees significant contact between me and the other car and gives me a penalty without being able to detect I was pushed into that person. On 1 of the 2 occasions the person who pushed me didn't even get a penalty. The DR reset just shouldn't happen with how inconsistent the penalty system is ATM.
     
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  28. dabz343

    dabz343

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    446
    An SR reset is PD's last-resort attempt at discouraging dirty racecraft. However, there are some unintended consequences that other have already mentioned which seems to signal another blaring alarm for GTS's Sport Mode.

    An adequate deterrent system should work holistically and eliminate gaps where users can game the system. We collectively must have logged tens of millions of miles by now and PD should have sufficient data to design a class-leading penalty system, DR SR concept, points system, etc. and perhaps more importantly--bring it all together in a seamless experience that players can't get enough of.

    These kinds of threads evoke both optimism and pessimism for me. I like that fact this community if full with those that genuinely aspire to contribute to improving the experience, but I wonder if PD is listening and taking our feedback critically...

    If you are serious about improving your product PD, start listening and connecting with your loyal fans that can provide critical insights--starting with what's working, what needs improvements and what needs to go away. I encourage PD to embrace the idea of intentionally connecting and collaborating with their passionate community--it will only serve to strengthen your value proposition.
     
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  29. breeminator

    breeminator

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    569
    I've noticed that penalties seem to bring out the worst in people after unghosting, people seem desperate to minimise how many places they lose and start blatantly illegally blocking. IMO it would improve things if people who have served penalties didn't unghost until a bit after the exit from the first significant corner after the penalty zone. So this would be after the Ascari exit for Monza.
     
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  30. fastone371

    fastone371

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    It seems that PD/Sony do not hear much of what is said by their customers. The way I see it they base their decisions strictly on playerbase, unfortunately by doing so they keep the dirty and cheating drivers who game the system while losing the clean drivers.
     
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