POLL: drafting in race YES or NO?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2-Yl2Yr8xo

Drafting CAN be that extreme.

Seeing as Kaz is a pro race driver, i think that qualifies him to know a lot more about how drafting really feels than all of us. Meaning it may well be more realistic. Perhaps other games massively under estimate drafting? Remember in a game there are NO rules (ie you dont get black flagged for dangerous manouvers or excessive swerving) and theres no fear. I challenge you all to repeat your times with the same car at the same track in the real world.... Fear keeps you back. Just like when JC took the NSX to laguna seca on top gear for GT4.....

Much like GT5's damage is optimistic (damage wise) and that forzas is very OTT. One bump and your car looks like a piece of crap. Once i even had the paint worn of my roof...... without flipping over.
 
ESCUDO 1800hp
No.

GT5 is the "real" driving simulator. Most of us want whatever is realistic, the problem is everyone here (self included) except 1 or 2 people don't have any IRL high speed racing/drafting experience.
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that's why i said "even IF it is to strong "
i didn't agree with anyone
i just ment that what ever level its on ( to low , spot on , to high )its even for everyone, so its a moan over nothing just like all the other moaning about nothing threads
 
4743hudsonj
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2-Yl2Yr8xo

Drafting CAN be that extreme.

Seeing as Kaz is a pro race driver, i think that qualifies him to know a lot more about how drafting really feels than all of us.
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Oh please, not this.:ouch:

Real World: Daytona - NASCAR - on an average lap you can gain 4~5 mph running in a draft.
GT5: 20+ mph in the draft

Real World: La Sarthe - GT class cars - from Tetra Rouge to the first chicane - gain of 2~4 mph.
GT5: 15+ mph



EDIT:
GTlondoner
that's why i said "even IF it is to strong "
i didn't agree with anyone
i just ment that what ever level its on ( to low , spot on , to high )its even for everyone, so its a moan over nothing just like all the other moaning about nothing threads
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IF it is too strong? IF? I guess one has to be all mighty, all knowing, Kaz to know that it's so far blown out of proportion that it's a parody. A joke. Look, on a (EDIT) GT5 track like Monza or Le Mans, with long straights, even a mediocre driver who doesn't make any (EDIT) serious mistakes, who constantly fudges corner exit or entry or braking points, can easily stay with a better driver. Because in this game, with the super magnetic draft, all you have to do is pass them again on the straight.
 
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4743hudsonj
Seeing as Kaz is a pro race driver, i think that qualifies him to know a lot more about how drafting really feels than all of us. Meaning it may well be more realistic. Perhaps other games massively under estimate drafting?
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KY is not a pro race driver. If anything, he is more like a funded driver...He's more along the lines of rich guys paying for their drives.

jjaisli
IF it is too strong? IF? I guess one has to be all mighty, all knowing, Kaz to know that it's so far blown out of proportion that it's a parody. A joke. Look, on a track like Monza or Le Mans, with long straights, even a mediocre driver who doesn't make any mistakes, who constantly fudges corner exit or entry or braking points, can easily stay with a better driver. Because in this game, with the super magnetic draft, all you have to do is pass them again on the straight.
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I agree with this.
 
jjaisli
Oh please, not this.:ouch:

Real World: Daytona - NASCAR - on an average lap you can gain 4~5 mph running in a draft.
GT5: 20+ mph in the draft

Real World: La Sarthe - GT class cars - from Tetra Rouge to the first chicane - gain of 2~4 mph.
GT5: 15+ mph
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^^^^^^ 👍
 
jjaisli
Oh please, not this.:ouch:

Real World: Daytona - NASCAR - on an average lap you can gain 4~5 mph running in a draft.
GT5: 20+ mph in the draft

Real World: La Sarthe - GT class cars - from Tetra Rouge to the first chicane - gain of 2~4 mph.
GT5: 15+ mph



EDIT:


IF it is too strong? IF? I guess one has to be all mighty, all knowing, Kaz to know that it's so far blown out of proportion that it's a parody. A joke. Look, on a track like Monza or Le Mans, with long straights, even a mediocre driver who doesn't make any mistakes, who constantly fudges corner exit or entry or braking points, can easily stay with a better driver. Because in this game, with the super magnetic draft, all you have to do is pass them again on the straight.
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👍👍👍👍 GREAT, THIS IS PERFECT 👍👍👍👍


Silver
 
jjaisli
Drafting - YES
Ridiculously exaggerated draft with triple the realistic speed gains we have in GT5 - NO.

Keep it. But bring it down to realistic levels.
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This^

There's no way you can gain 15km/h drafting IRL, unless your driving a Box:dopey:
 
I too think that the drafting that occurs in the game is unrealistic. I've noticed I can get drafting effects on Daytona when I have just left Turn 2 and someone is all the way at the end of the straightaway. Drafting should really only be noticeable if you are 10 or so car lengths behind the car in front of you.

It also should be moderate acceleration that builds as you get closer to the lead car, not a sudden boost the slingshots you way ahead of the lead car at will. Usually IRL a car leaving the draft starts to lose its "boost" as soon as it leaves the draft which means if it does it on a straightaway, it'll not gain any advantage other than the initial pass. This game does not experience that effect, as I can use the draft in a NASCAR, pass someone on the straightaway (at 235 mph no less) and carry that speed all the way into the turn. Where is the increased drag from the movement through the air?

Furthermore, I've yet to see any benefit to a lead car receiving less drag from being followed closely by another car. Within one car length, the lead car should start to accelerate more quickly as well. If you try to "push" a car using only the lessened drag on both of your cars, it does not work. The lead car just sits at the same acceleration rate while the following car cannot help but bump into the lead car. Perhaps this last feature is too difficult to apply in game without better AI implementation, since it does require cooperation from both drivers.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining that it makes the game unfair. PD is certainly free to program the game's physics however they wish, but I just agree with others on this board that drafting in this game is unlike what you should expect with real-world physics.
 
jjaisli
Real World: Daytona - NASCAR - on an average lap you can gain 4~5 mph running in a draft.
GT5: 20+ mph in the draft
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Preseason Thunder: 3-day Speed Report

All of day 1AM speeds are single car drafts, while some cars drafted in the other sessions. Compare for example, Brad Keselowski:
No Draft: 182.912 mph
Draft: 198.605 mph

That's quite a bit more than 4~5mph. Maybe not quite 20+, but that's also the average lap speed, while tucked directly in front of or behind Kurt Busch. While gaining on the car in front, it's feasible to gain even more speed.

I won't say how much of a difference it is at La Sarthe, because I've never watched it (although I really want to).

Blangadanger
I too think that the drafting that occurs in the game is unrealistic. I've noticed I can get drafting effects on Daytona when I have just left Turn 2 and someone is all the way at the end of the straightaway. Drafting should really only be noticeable if you are 10 or so car lengths behind the car in front of you.
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When they do qualifying practice for the Daytona 500, they really try to keep about a full straightaway apart, because they really can feel a draft almost the whole strait.
 
ESCUDO 1800hp
Drafting IRL is pretty extreme. Why do you say it is too strong? You've presented no evidence to suggest that the amount applied in GT5 is incorrect.

It's disabled in free run (obviously unrealistic), but this is the only way to get proper qualifying times. You can't use a car to draft when qualifying, so the ends justify the means.
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Drafting IRL isn't near as extreme as it is in GT... I mean look at karts, I think they get something like a 20mph boost from drafting.... it's like someone slaps a turbo on your kart the second you get in someones draft to the point karting is about bieng in SECOND and not FIRST becuase SECOND can whip right by first for the win every time from a draft.

The NASCAR cars also get a ridiculous amount of boost from drafting and the draft goes back really far to the point you can be tens of car lengths out and still get a decent boost...
 
Devedander
karting is about bieng in SECOND and not FIRST becuase SECOND can whip right by first for the win every time from a draft.
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So very true. GT aerodynamics is a mockery of simulation. Maybe it's just been a while, but I don't think it was even this strong in the later portion of GT5P. If PD did raise it after lowering it in GT5P, that's just inexcusable since it was still to strong then.
 
Mind you, with no rules enforced as to how many 'racing moves' you can make down a straight, it's a bit easier to move over and lose your opponent's draft advantage... back and forth, back and forth. You don't HAVE to sit there like a lump..!

Even so, as in most things GT5, I am all for OPTIONS, at least. Full draft and half draft, selectable by lobby creator seems about right.
 
TouringBubble
I agree that the distance at which drafting occurs is exaggerated, but the benefits of it are realistic. You'll find that the "extreme" drafting effects are seen on cars with heavy aero work, meaning they can gain more from the draft as aerodynamic forces change around the car. Cars with poor aero function do not get as much of a benefit, which is very true to life.
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So you would say Karting would produce this affect to the extreme that it does. I noticed it was a bit strong in the karts. but it should remain but reduce it a bit to a more realistic draft for all classes heavy aero and poor aero.
 
It seems slightly exagerated in GT5 but it is a game after all and has to be fun for all players, having pro drivers blast away after the first corner and not seeing them again is not fun for the average player so any advantage to even up the field to help lesser skilled drivers make up ground on the straight is ok by me. Drafting only works on straightaways anyhow, if you stay in the slipstream through the corners the aero effect of the turbulent air from the car in front makes any aero grip you may have suddenly not work, this is also exagerated in GT5. I think it could be toned down slightly like by 25%.
 
Well we can say no one in this thread complained about the draft being too weak in GT. That tells you something.
 
It's very easy ... we ask to PD a SIMPLE online features for to make happy all drivers:

GT5_online_drafting.jpg


Silver
 
Hard to say how realistic or not GT5 drafting is when there are so many other things missing that affect overtaking in real life. In real life you might not want to get out of the draft to overtake if the surface off the racing line doesn't have good grip or is too bumpy or wet or whatever. These limitations aren't usually an issue in GT5 and getting a draft is almost guaranteed overtaking possibility.

One interesting detail in one of the NASCAR videos was also the rising engine temperatures of the car doing the drafting as the engine didn't get enough cool air.

Edit: And no drafting is NOT realistic...
 
how about this drafting?

i think draft in GT5 is quite OK in comparison with braking. so you can get an a draft & very late braking bonus. And you are a champ. simple as it is. GT5 is not a sim, just don't bother.
 
Firstly i'd just like to add a Drafting OFF button would just be retarded and even more unrealistic. Also have you ever (even on a motorway/highway) accelerated full power behind a slightly more powerful car? I have and i can guarantee you DO get and extra 10-15mph out of it. Me and a friend used to do it when we only just passed our tests and i'd get my 1.3l Ford Ka to 115mph and right on my friends a** in a 1.6l Ford Fiesta so i'm sure it would be increased at higher speeds and more powerful cars

Edit: would just like to add in GT5 it does need to be tuned down to about 70-80% of what it is at though
 
The drafting in GT5 is about right, just a little bit too strong as far as strength imo. Now here me out. One thing you have to remember is that in Nascar they use restrictor plates at Daytona which severly limit what a car can do by itself, meaning if somebody loses more than 50 meters on the field their "dropped" by the pack like a cyclist in a bicycle race who's lost contact with the peleton. With slower speeds, your more dependent on the cars behind as well, since you want less distance in between cars to maximise the effect. Anybody who done Road cycling feels this every time they ride in a group. The faster your going, the more distance you can leave and vice versa. When your going uphill, your literallly almost rubbing the wheel in front to try and get a draft.



Does anybody remember Jeff Gordon on his radio during the Talledega spring race the year they re-surfaced the track to make it smooth , commenting about how he was running half throttle in the pack. Thats a good example of how much effect it has.

The higher the speeds and the more horsepower, the more of a "slingshot effect" someone gets down a straightaway. With no restrictor plates in the late 1970s-80s this was evident in Nascar. Remember in GT5 there are no restrictions on horsepower, your going alot faster than the Nascar Cup cars, a LOT faster when you consider aerodynamic drag increases 8 fold every time you double a speed.

In the 24 hours of Le Mans it is possible to gain 10 mph down the full Mulsane straight with no chicanes, maybe 20 mph. You didnt see guys doing this because they did NOT want to crash, and in an endurance race there's no need for dangerous passing.

The main problem with GT5 is being able to draft in corners, and not getting any "Aero push". You should rapidly loose a ton of grip in an F1 car or a sports car for that matter when following closely in a high speed corner. You dont see this in GT5.

Heck if your drafting you can go as fast as you want with very little power. Watch this video of a man riding his bicycle up to 152 mph under his own power. He's one strong guy, a really great sprinter. (NOT, he was over 40 years of age when he set that record!!!) Keep in mind that even a world class sprinter cant develop more than about 1.8 horsepower, less than 1/10th the power of a really good Go-Kart.

 
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It's part of the game. Do not think for one moment that Nascar invented this. They were using drafting in the 50's and 60's at Le Mans.
 
In Nascar drafting is way overdone. You get a nice draft off cars that are an eighth of a mile ahead of you :rolleyes: It seems a bit more reasonable in all the other cars though.
 
Destinkeys
Mind you, with no rules enforced as to how many 'racing moves' you can make down a straight, it's a bit easier to move over and lose your opponent's draft advantage... back and forth, back and forth. You don't HAVE to sit there like a lump..!

Even so, as in most things GT5, I am all for OPTIONS, at least. Full draft and half draft, selectable by lobby creator seems about right.
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You mean swaying from one side to another on the final straight attempting to break the opponent's draft?

I see that rather often among some newcomers to the series and I would have thought that is against racing etiquette and is very unsportsmanlike...
 
Rich S
In the 24 hours of Le Mans it is possible to gain 10 mph down the full Mulsane straight with no chicanes, maybe 20 mph. You didnt see guys doing this because they did NOT want to crash, and in an endurance race there's no need for dangerous passing.
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Crash into what? If you know that you can get such a huge speed/acceleration increase like in GT, you can easily plan to take advantage it. Especially on a track with infinite space like Sarthe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25U3WwnO28&t=8

If that was GT, he would have passed by 15 seconds and then would have probably been passed and pushed back to 2nd after the chicane.

Silver_MK
It's too better OFF DRAFTING in comparison with current drafting level............

Silver
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But even better would be realistic draft.
 
The NASCAR drafting is seriously flawed.

Both the lead and trailing car should receive less drag, improving speeds on both. In GT5 it seems to give the trailing car far too much of a speed advantage while giving the lead car next to none. IRL it also considerably changes the down force of both cars in different areas. Furthermore, because the cars are so restricted on say Daytona, the car does not have enough power to maintain its drafting speed long enough after exiting the draft to completely pass the leading car by itself.

I'd also like to know why I can hit Indy car speeds+ (230's mph) at Daytona in a NASCAR in GT5. Considering GT5's implementation of NASCAR is really centered around Daytona, the lack of restrictor plates is inexcusable for a game that calls itself a SIM.

Here is an example of the speeds achieved via drafting on the backstretch @ Daytona.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/sto...ational-Speedway-high-speed-at-testing-012211
Despite cars tipping the speedometer at 203 mph down the backstretch and Joey Logano topping the speed chart at 197.516 mph in the draft with teammate Denny Hamlin..........
 
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