poll for those outside north and central america

[Race Idiot]

I've seen the one with six wheels once, I think it was an SVT model. But i'm assuming that's not an F150.

Edit: Nope, didn't look like that.

I've seen about 5 Dodge rams in the last year, including the fancy one with a Viper Engine in it. I just wonder how much the guy pays for petrol for that thing. I see a few of those 'Euro' Rangers about, mostly driven by builders or out in the sticks.

 

[Sting]

I've only seen 2 F-150's here in Bedfordshire, UK. 1 was going down a road and 1 belonged to a neighbour who had it imported from the States. It was the Harley Davidson Edition one and it looked sweet, but you don't see many.

Another truck i've seen here is a Dodge Ram SRT, which looked sweet!

 

[1X83Z]

I've seen the one with six wheels once, I think it was an SVT model. But i'm assuming that's not an F150.

Edit: Nope, didn't look like that.

Right - the six-wheeled ones are F-350 Dually (dually as in dual rear wheels) models. To be perfectly honest, they're pretty rare even in the states. There's three main grades of F-series pickup.

First, you have F-150. That's the most popular, by very far, and is offered in regular cab, extended cab, crew cab, flareside, styleside, long bed, short bed, 2WD, or 4WD trims plus a combination of most of those. Truthfully, there are probably 50 different F-150s on the market when you factor in trim levels (XL, STX, XLT, Lariat, FX4, and the luxurious King Ranch which I might buy if not for a lack of side airbags) not to mention engines, of which there are three available (202hp 4.2 V6, 231hp 4.6 V8, 300hp 5.4 V8).

That's your basic 2004-present F-150 XLT extended cab flareside with the short bed and 4WD.

These are rapidly becoming more common - this one's a 2004-present F-150 XLT crew cab styleside with the short bed (actually you can't get the long bed with a crew cab) and 4WD.

This is the 1997-2003 model, likely an XLT or XL, with an extended cab, flareside, the short bed, and 4WD. Lightning models were 2WD short bed regular cab flareside 1997-2003 models with a tuned engine. Lightnings were also all built in Canada.

Next up is F-250, which is classified as a "heavy duty" truck by Ford. All Big Three manufacturers sell a heavy duty version of their regular truck, and all are available with six wheels. Ford's is built on a seperate platform that it shares with the huge Ford Excursion SUV. No models F-250 or above ride on the same chassis as the F-150. Calling it an "F-series" is a little absurd in that regard, but they do anyway. Most heavy duty trucks (Dodge and Chevrolet also offer them) offer huge engines and several turbodiesels. I'll be honest when I say heavy duty trucks are not my part of the market and I know very little about them, but this is a basic F-250:

This is an F-250 Lariat. Really it's huge - most F-250s are not crew cabs but rather extended cabs; regular cabs do exist as well.

F-350s are the ones with six total wheels, but that isn't standard and as I said the six-wheeled ones are rare even in the states; it's pretty much only used for heavy-duty towing:

Standard F-350. The only difference between an F-250 and an F-350 are payload capacity. This is reflected in the respective names - F-150s have a 1500lb payload capacity, F-250s have the 2500lb, etc. These things came out several years ago, and Ford has yet to give them a redesign. For 2005 they were "totally redesigned" according to Ford but all they did was strengthen the chassis (I think) and add some chrome (I know).

F-350 Dually. Needless to say, these things are legitimate.

It goes up from there, but F-450 and above see commercial applications only. Nearly all US ambulances are built by Ford, but I'd say more than half are actually E-series vans, which are similarly numbered. (E250, etc.) The rest are F-450s with the bed completely cut out. The vehicles are sold to ambulance-fitters with just a cab and a rear axle:

That's an old one (pre-97) but you get the idea.

Anyway, the ambulance-fitters put the box on the back and the medical supplies, paint it, and ship it.

That's pretty much the deal on the Ford F-series.

 

[Emohawk]

You missed the really big ones;
F550:

F750:

I actually haven't seen one of these yet. I assume they'll be dump trucks, cement mixers, etc.
This old model will probably look more familliar to most:

Here be info. 2 years old, but considering the lifespan of commercial vehicles, this should still be pertinent.

 

[1X83Z]

I didn't miss them - I said "there are three main types."

 

[skicrush]

Wow, a tour through Ford History. I'll assume you included CENTRAL america to be fair, since full size trucks do SIT on car lots down there. (That's right, they don't sell very often) But in 2 years I spent in central america, I never once saw a full size truck on the road. (Mexico is technically north america)

We need to keep in mind we're talking about FULL SIZE trucks, and that limits their competition to Chevy, GMC, and Dodge (until very recently). And you'll notice they're NOT competing against GM (which would=Chevy+GMC, in which case it would lose). I hear the F-150 will be getting imported to australia soon, but at $3.50 USD per gallon of gas (and that took a bit of calculation), I doubt they'll do very well. You may also have noticed that Toyota and Nissan both PRODUCE and SELL their new full size trucks ONLY here in NA, because there is no market for them in other places.

Look at the design of the Hilux sold in the rest of the world compared to the Tacoma. It's a work truck. 4 doors are old news, and they have tie hooks all along the bed, just like they did back in the 70's here in the states. They're different markets.

As a side note, I am TERRIBLY curious why it took Toyota and Nissan SO long to start building 4 door trucks in the US, given that they are ALL OVER everywhere else, and why Nissan doesn't sell the KICK-@$$ Patrol over here in SUV crazed America. Is that some undercover nod to environmentalists that they agree SUVs are out of control?

 

[Emohawk]

Sorry, I missed the bit about "F450 and above"

 

[a6m5]

As a side note, I am TERRIBLY curious why it took Toyota and Nissan SO long to start building 4 door trucks in the US, given that they are ALL OVER everywhere else

I've wondered this myself. Better late than never, I guess!

and why Nissan doesn't sell the KICK-@$$ Patrol over here in SUV crazed America. Is that some undercover nod to environmentalists that they agree SUVs are out of control?

I wish Nissan did sell the Patrol/Safari here, but now with Armada in the U.S. market, there's no need. For those of you who haven't seen the Safaris, they're the white SUVs you see on the news all the time, being used by the United Nations. They must be the official vehicles of the U.N. or something.

 

[1X83Z]

Wow, a tour through Ford History. I'll assume you included CENTRAL america to be fair, since full size trucks do SIT on car lots down there. (That's right, they don't sell very often) But in 2 years I spent in central america, I never once saw a full size truck on the road. (Mexico is technically north america)

From Canada to Panama is North America; from Colombia south to Tierra del Fuego is South America. No technically about it.

As a side note, I am TERRIBLY curious why it took Toyota and Nissan SO long to start building 4 door trucks in the US, given that they are ALL OVER everywhere else,

This and dual sliding door minivans baffle me to this day. The market was clearly there.

and why Nissan doesn't sell the KICK-@$$ Patrol over here in SUV crazed America. Is that some undercover nod to environmentalists that they agree SUVs are out of control?

I have been in fights with people about this at work. The Patrol is an absolutely ****TY SUV. I'm sorry, but in the US we have four VERY new and VERY up-to-date Nissan SUVs, not to mention the two sold by upscale brand Infiniti. They're refined with nice interiors and great engines. The Patrol is old on the outside and compromised on the inside. It rides horribly, it accelerates poorly, and it could never compete with the decent American SUVs and especially Nissan's own Pathfinder. Sorry - Patrol is hell and not worthy of being imported.

 

[a6m5]

M5Power: I've never driven the Safari/Patrol, but could it be that they are more of an off-road vehicle? Just like you said, Armada and Infiniti QX whatever look way more refined compared to Safari/Patrol, but I don't believe Safari was ever a family, luxury SUV and most of them I've seen has been fleet vehicles. Safaris might be comparable to some of the overseas Land Cruisers, IMO. No luxury or comfort, just rugged work truck.

 

[neanderthal]

there certainly were two versions of the land cruiser that we saw regularly when i was a mechnic in africa. one was a more lux versoin, while the other was more of an implement than a luxury car.

 

[Sniffs]

the Ranger was formerly a package for the F series (just f100 untill the early 70's) from the 60's or so. The Ranger in the US was a replacement for the Courier mini-pickup that the US got untill 83, when it was created to compete with the then new s-10 and s-15 from Chevy, GM's replacement for the Isuzu scourced mini pickup they were using.

also, the "explorer" name was used on 70's f series as well as a package.

 

[skicrush]

I guess that's why I wanted a Patrol--I'd heard good things about them. And not from a luxury standpoint. They look rugged, and like they'd have fun getting dirty. I do have to agree--the new Pathfinder loooks great and is, I'm sure, VERY capable. But I just don't put luxury with SUV--I will NEVER buy a luxury SUV. I know there is a market for them, but I think an Escalade is more pretentious than any Ferrari.

 

[James2097]

I guess that's why I wanted a Patrol--I'd heard good things about them. And not from a luxury standpoint. They look rugged, and like they'd have fun getting dirty. I do have to agree--the new Pathfinder loooks great and is, I'm sure, VERY capable. But I just don't put luxury with SUV--I will NEVER buy a luxury SUV. I know there is a market for them, but I think an Escalade is more pretentious than any Ferrari.

Agree 100%

 

[1X83Z]

M5Power: I've never driven the Safari/Patrol, but could it be that they are more of an off-road vehicle?

It certainly is - which means it has no place here. I think you know most Americans' attitudes toward their SUVs...

 

[a6m5]

It certainly is - which means it has no place here. I think you know most Americans' attitudes toward their SUVs...

I agree 100%. In the U.S., I think most people consider SUVs as a cooler looking minivan.

 

[Sniffs]

LOL cooler looking minivan *chuckle*
the Japanese finally beat us over the head on the Minivan issue, eclipsing Caravan, finally.

from what I can tell, the american attitiude toward the SUV is this: they'd rather have a tank around them because of all the nuts on the road. it's for protection.
I think they'd rather have the other cars go UNDER them in a crash

 

[1X83Z]

LOL cooler looking minivan *chuckle*
the Japanese finally beat us over the head on the Minivan issue, eclipsing Caravan, finally.

Too bad the new Odyssey is so weird. And do remember, Chrysler minivans still outsell the Japanese considerably. I very much expect the next Chrysler minivan, available in calendar 2006 or 2007, to be very much better than any Japanese offerings.

from what I can tell, the american attitiude toward the SUV is this: they'd rather have a tank around them because of all the nuts on the road. it's for protection.
I think they'd rather have the other cars go UNDER them in a crash

From Lee Iacocca himself:

"The answer to why SUVs became so popular is simple. The baby boomers who had bought the Mustangs grew up. Twenty years had passed. They got married, had two kids, and moved to the suburbs. In came the world of SUVs. Basically women and mothers like the command positions, they like sitting high up. Dealers are selling weight, they're selling 'put a lot of iron around you' for safety reasons. So what if you only get eight miles per gallon and your SUV pollutes like hell? Your children are safe. People think they're going to drive it to the wilderness. In truth, they drive it to the shopping center."

As a "true" SUV owner, who couldn't get to work four months out of the year without an SUV, SUV owners like those Iacocca describes are a little upsetting because they give the rest of us a bad name. But then those Iacocca describes are in the vast majority. One thing I will always harp on is the low number of alternatives. These days there's five AWD minivans - four are the same model, and are all horrible - and just two midsize AWD wagons under $30000. SUVs just offer better alternatives.

 

[Max_DC]

If you live in Germany, why would you even have imported cars.

Well personally I'm not a big fan of german cars, too heavy, too expensive for what they deliver.... especially concerning sportscars : What do you get for 50000 $ ? No matter what german car you name, I can tell you japanese one that beats it for less money ( for example a 350 Z, S2000, Lancer EVO, STi - all under 40000, put 10000 of tuning in them and you will win on track)...
Then again it is not all about performance... everybody how he/she likes it !

 

[neanderthal]

minivans are a little wierd though. its not very easy to rate them like other cars.

utility plays a big part, convertability, how easy seats are to remove/ stow, how convenient amenities and other stuff are, how easy it is to clean etc etc etc. you cant just judge from a drivers point of view coz thats a car that is certainly designed for passengers. things that dont matter in other segments, like can a center seat slide forward, can become big selling points.

performace takes a big back seat as does handling, unless you're a performace snob, in which case are you judging a minivan subjectively or objectively. power is close, fuel economy is pretty close, most of em have five star crash and four star rollover ratings, it basically comes down to taste.

certain features like stow and go arent available from other manufacturers, so DC has huge advantage there.

 

[1X83Z]

I don't think that's true. Standard features are still a big part of the minivan game, as is cargo room. I think you can very objectively look at the minivan market - I try to - and still come out with an objective best-in-class model.

 

[Gil]

I don't know about the rest of the world, but as for the trucks in my cul-de-sac (8 houses) Granted, I'm smack in the middle of the United States. (so, I didnt' vote)
There are 3 F-series trucks, 2 "large-breed" Ford SUV's (built on F-series chassis' I believe)
and 1 Ranger.

Of the F-series chassis' 2 are Big Turbo-diesels (One's mine) the others include two 5.4l's, and 1 V-10.
My Ranger, the other Ford, is a little 4-banger.

The other trucks include 1 Small Chevy, and 1 Large Chevy, and 1 Izuzu SUV.

As an aside, 2 of the girls on the cul-de-sac have boyfriends with trucks. On drives a Dodge Dakota. The other drives an F-150.

So, in my neighborhood the F-series pick-up chassis is the most popular, hands down.

I will concede that in other countries outside of North America, especially those with narrow roads, I would not want to drive an F-series.
I feel like my car is overly large when I drive the Excursion. I'd hate that in what I consider to be a "normal" size truck.

 

[neanderthal]

I don't think that's true. Standard features are still a big part of the minivan game, as is cargo room. I think you can very objectively look at the minivan market - I try to - and still come out with an objective best-in-class model.

my point was there are so many ways you could vote its hard to decice which way to prioritise. theres a lot of eminently capable minivans out there, with engines about the same size, similar crash test ratings and most of the same features. when you start to use price to compare the kia jumps to the lead, value the dodge, power the quest & odyssey etc etc etc.
i think its a highly competitive field. i got in a kia and thought its interior could have been lifted from a chrysler honda or toyota. the caravans are class leaders, always have been, the japanese bring their own element, and now the koreans are getting in the mix. competitively at that. thiers is not just the budget entry anymore.

its a tough field. its certainly not as clear cut as sports cars (corvette,) economy cars (forenza,) big car (300,) midsize (accomry,) lux ute (range rover,) full size pickup (titan, you can talk up the F150 all you want to, i think the titan is a better truck) big USV (suburban,) hauler (dodge with cummins power package) etc

i certainly would be hard pressed to pick one.

 

[Sniffs]

M5 and Iacocca know what their talking about, and that was the point I was trying to make as well. that american's main concern's been for safety for a long time.

your not the only one with monster winters in the midwest. up (or, rather, DOWN) here in PA it's nasty as well in the winter. throw in miles long hills, "farmers turns" (ninety degree turns in the middle of a road for no reason), and PennDOT soaking the reads in winter with salt and anti-skid that actually MAKES you skid out (), you practially need an SUV around here as well. however... I rarely ever see any in the winter!! everybody just picks up their winter beater front wheel drive and just plow through drifts and take only the main roads.

 

[den brakke]

In Belgium you have to import them, that is one of the reasons why you don't see them alot here. Another teason is that you pay alot of taxes for such a big engine.
You do see them sometimes though.

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

There's a disgusting number of them here in Southern California. It snows zero days a year here, and rarely rains hard. Yet, half the vehicles on the road are SUVs of some sort.

 

[Joey D]

Why do people hate SUV's so much? They are no bigger then a full sized van and have the same practicallity as a station wagon. Also they have the haul capibilities of a truck. I know if I had kids I would want one, they offer tons of room and they aren't a mini van.

Sure some SUV's my be a little bit overboard but why would they still make them if they didn't sell? So I suggest you guys let it go, there is nothing wrong with an SUV. And do you guys have the same view on conversion vans? Or a station wagon? Hell my Blazer is a station wagon according to my insurence thing, so I guess I can avoid your hate towards something that doesn't really need to have hate put on it.

 

[High-Test]

full size pickup (titan, you can talk up the F150 all you want to, i think the titan is a better truck)

not according to 967,000 peole......

But, to each his own.

 

[Joey D]

not according to 967,000 peole......

But, to each his own.

Took the words right from my mouth.

 

[High-Test]

It's only true..... If Famine says it, well, it has to be a true fact.