poll for those outside north and central america

  • Thread starter Thread starter neanderthal
  • 139 comments
  • 3,509 views

are there lots of F150s outside of north and central america

  • (for non americans) yes

    Votes: 5 10.4%
  • (for non americans) no

    Votes: 27 56.3%
  • US residents: yes

    Votes: 5 10.4%
  • US residents: no

    Votes: 11 22.9%

  • Total voters
    48
menglan
not according to 967,000 peole......

But, to each his own.
Titan's are fairly new truck, so it won't be fair to compare sales numbers to the F-150, which has millions of loyal customers. Brand loyalty is especially true in a full-size truck market.

Also, to add on, many of the F-150s are fleet trucks. Even if you see an regular F-150s(no company markings, ads, etc.), they still could be an fleet vehicle. "Not according to 967,000 people...." is not really an fair comparison, IMO.
 
The Titan isn't a very good truck, as far as Japanese trucks go you can't get much better then the Tundra...which is probably the second best truck on the market right behind Ford.

The Tundra is better then the Silverado and Ram without a question, but the Titan is just way down there right with the Ridgeline. I would seriously think about a Tundra if I was in the market for a new truck.
 
There's a few around where I live, as well as some big Chevy trucks (not just the Blazer) and the odd Dodge Ram thing. Mind you, I live near a garage called North American Motor Co. - a friend of mine works there - so we get a lot of Americana around here. So yes, I see F150s fairly regularly.
 
The Blazer isn't a big truck, it's a small SUV. Unless of course you are talking about the older K5's.
 
BlazinXtreme
The Titan isn't a very good truck, as far as Japanese trucks go you can't get much better then the Tundra...which is probably the second best truck on the market right behind Ford.

The Tundra is better then the Silverado and Ram without a question, but the Titan is just way down there right with the Ridgeline. I would seriously think about a Tundra if I was in the market for a new truck.
I have never driven an Japanese pickups, so I can't comment on Tundra or Titan, personally. If I were to buy a Japanese full-size truck, I'd pick Tundra for the Toyota reliability. I don't know how you're rating the Titan as not a very good truck. I have read many good reviews by magazines, and I belive they were a major off-road magazine's truck of the year? I also found this:

http://www.clarionledger.com/news/0401/05/b02.html
clarionledger.com
"We're very proud to be among the three finalists. Finishing second to the F-150 gives us something to shoot for," said Jed Connolly, senior vice president of sales and marketing for Nissan North America Inc.

The F-150 is the top-selling truck in the United States.

Nissan executives acknowledge that the Titan's second-place status for this particular contest is pretty impressive considering that the Japan-based company entered the full-size market just this year.

I don't see Nissan, ever beating F-150 in sales(again, brand loyalty), but sounds like an pretty decent truck to me. Ridgeline is not an traditional pickup truck IMO. I think it's perfect for outdoor types, and makes whole lot more sense(to me) than the bigger trucks like the Avalanche.

Edit:
BlazinXtreme
The Blazer isn't a big truck, it's a small SUV. Unless of course you are talking about the older K5's.
Those full-size Blazers were awesome! 👍
 
I've driven the Titan and it didn't impress me like the Toyota did. I felt that the power was decent but still needed more, I was pulling a fairly large boat with it. I know it has 5 more ponies then the F-150, so maybe it was either the torque or the transmission or something.

I disliked the interior I wasn't comfortable on that entire trip.

Plus you will never sell a truck in America with so few configurations on it it, such as bed size, doors, etc.

I think Nissan should stick to cars, although there Murano is a nice little lux SUV.

Ridgeline is not an traditional pickup truck IMO. I think it's perfect for outdoor types, and makes whole lot more sense(to me) than the bigger trucks like the Avalanche.

Except Honda screwed up by making it a unibody. No respective truck person will buy it, they will be all the people who buy a truck because they are in trend right now, not because they need it. And a least with teh Avalanche you could do truck work with it. Sure it wasn't a good looking truck, in fact all Chevy trucks now look ugly, but it was a good concept for the time.
 
BlazinXtreme
Plus you will never sell a truck in America with so few configurations on it it, such as bed size, doors, etc.
I agree, but I don't think Nissan was going after the fleet sales market. Just casual consumers, maybe even people who's never owned an full-size pickups before.

BlazinXtreme
Except Honda screwed up by making it a unibody. No respective truck person will buy it, they will be all the people who buy a truck because they are in trend right now, not because they need it. And a least with teh Avalanche you could do truck work with it.
Exactly. Any truck person would know, Ridgeline is not marketed toward them. It'll be great for "outdoor fun", not "off-road" or "trucking fun".

BlazinXtreme
Sure it wasn't a good looking truck, in fact all Chevy trucks now look ugly, but it was a good concept for the time.
I know! What's up with the Chevy full-size trucks these days? I really liked them, just until the last model change.
 
BlazinXtreme
Why do people hate SUV's so much? .....

i think coz they're not driven like 5000lb implements by the sheep who bought em for the sake of not buying a stationwagon.
that and they block your view. :grumpy:
and seem to hog the fast lane. 👎 doing the speed limit or less. while gabbing on thier cell phone. which brings us back to the sheep comment from earlier.

heres my honest opinion. we, as enthusiasts, have a penchant for sports cars, racing, and all things fun- related to automobiles. hence our presence on this board
brought together by our collective love for the game which celebrates our passion.

so, the SUVs, the antithesis of everything we love, are easily scapegoated as everything thats wrong with the world. its compounded when thyre driven by sheep.

menglan
not according to 967,000 peole......

But, to each his own.

thats why i said IN MY OPINION.

________________________

i started to compose this post this morning, left for luch and killed the whole afternoon, and we already on another page :scared:
 
I agree, but I don't think Nissan was going after the fleet sales market. Just casual consumers, maybe even people who's never owned an full-size pickups before.

They really should try to go for fleet sales, what's better advertising then having someone drive around in your truck al day? It will eventually grow on them and there sales will go up.

Exactly. Any truck person would know, Ridgeline is not marketed toward them. It'll be great for "outdoor fun", not "off-road" or "trucking fun".

There commercails suggest that it's made for off road and is a capiable truck. But I think you are right it will be more towards out door stuff. I figured when Honda was going to make a truck they were going to do it in partnership with GM like some of there cars. I think that would have been better since they could have at least gotten Colorado frames or even Silverado's.

I know! What's up with the Chevy full-size trucks these days? I really liked them, just until the last model change.

Isuzu designers are starting to think they know how to design cars. They were responsible for the Colorado pure ugliness. I think GM eiter need to get some new, non-Japanese designers in to not make there trucks look like crap. Wait till the GMT 900 (next generation) comes out. They look pretty bad too.

But it's not entirly Japanese designers, since I assume the Tundra is designed by a team of Japanese designers and they made it look pretty good.

Oh well at least only the Chevy's look like crap for now, save for the Trailblazer which is decent at best. The GMC line doesn't look to bad though.
 
i think coz they're not driven like 5000lb implements by the sheep who bought em for the sake of not buying a stationwagon.
that and they block your view.
and seem to hog the fast lane. doing the speed limit or less. while gabbing on thier cell phone. which brings us back to the sheep comment from earlier.

Wow then were ever you live must suck to drive down the roads. Here in Michigan people think all 4 lanes are the fast lanes and you will get ran down if you go under 80, and that will be by an Aveo not an SUV. But I see more people on cell phones and not paying attention to driving while they are behind the wheel of a Lexus.

I bought mine because well first off it was GM and I got a great deal on it, secondly something that offered me the ablitiy to pull my dirt bikes and haul my gear was good, lastly the aspect of the mini trucker was good to. I never planned to take mine off road.

heres my honest opinion. we, as enthusiasts, have a penchant for sports cars, racing, and all things fun- related to automobiles. hence our presence on this board
brought together by our collective love for the game which celebrates our passion.

I'm am ehusiast of automobiles, more so on bikes but I still like autos quite a bit and I bought an SUV. I just think many people don't like them on this board because they are young and don't see a need for them yet. If you had kids or need to haul stuff around you would see a need for them.

if i said something like this you would call me racist. against japanese.

food for thought.

Uh only if you said something against Japanese that was racist, that's not racist considering its a car company. I just don't like there trucks because I think there are better ones, like the Tundra...another Japanese truck mind you. But for all practical purposes Nissan is French.

I didn't say anything against a race of people, or for that matter against Nissan. I think they make great cars, just a little lite on the truck and SUV side of their market.
 
neanderthal
i think coz they're not driven like 5000lb implements by the sheep who bought em for the sake of not buying a stationwagon.
that and they block your view. :grumpy:
Amen. I just love it, when there's an SUV or Vans in front of me. All of the sudden, All I see's an big ugly a**(sorry to be an hater :D).
 
neanderthal
its a tough field. its certainly not as clear cut as sports cars (corvette,) economy cars (forenza,) big car (300,) midsize (accomry,) lux ute (range rover,) full size pickup (titan, you can talk up the F150 all you want to, i think the titan is a better truck) big USV (suburban,) hauler (dodge with cummins power package) etc

I think those are some of the worst picks I've ever heard for segment leaders in my entire life. :p

Forenza?! Suburban!? Camry!? Range Rover!?

Awful. Purely awful. :p
 
neanderthal
thats why i said IN MY OPINION.

That's why I said to each his own. I don't see many Titans around here, probably due to brand loyaty and to the fact that they're more expensive than the others. It's Practically a Luxury truck.
 
BlazinXtreme
Why do people hate SUV's so much? They are no bigger then a full sized van and have the same practicallity as a station wagon. Also they have the haul capibilities of a truck. I know if I had kids I would want one, they offer tons of room and they aren't a mini van.

Sure some SUV's my be a little bit overboard but why would they still make them if they didn't sell? So I suggest you guys let it go, there is nothing wrong with an SUV. And do you guys have the same view on conversion vans? Or a station wagon? Hell my Blazer is a station wagon according to my insurence thing, so I guess I can avoid your hate towards something that doesn't really need to have hate put on it.

I take it you've never been stopped at a red light and had a woman on her call phone, driving an SUV, plow into your car at 40MPH? Or had an Excursion back up right onto the hood of your Miata? Or even been hit by an SUV who was parallel parking?

That's why I hate SUVs, they make the roads unsafe for anyone who doesn't prefer to drive a monster vehicle, especially drivers of sports/sporty cars. Not only are they engineered to simply obliterate smaller cars, they also isolate the driver, sealing out any outside noise, and being so high up and so squared off that obstacles/cars close to the front and rear are difficult to see.

Besides, there's another reason I'm anti-SUV. There isn't a lot of gas in the world, and there isn't gonna be any more anytime soon. The more SUVs on the road, the sooner the gas will run out, and, more immediately, their higher gas useage is causing gas prices to skyrocket.
 
I take it you've never been stopped at a red light and had a woman on her call phone, driving an SUV, plow into your car at 40MPH? Or had an Excursion back up right onto the hood of your Miata? Or even been hit by an SUV who was parallel parking?

Nope can't say I have but I can think of other things that are worse. Plus people hit each other all the time, you make it sound like it's just SUV owners who hit people. Plus if you have insurence who cares, they hit you and you collect.

That's why I hate SUVs, they make the roads unsafe for anyone who doesn't prefer to drive a monster vehicle, especially drivers of sports/sporty cars. Not only are they engineered to simply obliterate smaller cars, they also isolate the driver, sealing out any outside noise, and being so high up and so squared off that obstacles/cars close to the front and rear are difficult to see.

They don't make the roads unsafe, idotic drivers and drunks make the roads unsafe.

Sports cars about the most pointless things on the roads, and most people who have sporty car are the idiots on the roads.

People can drive small cars, people can drive big cars, its not Communist Russia we have a choice on what we can drive down the road.

I like not hearing road noise, it's nice, I hate road noise it bugs me.

I like sitting up high (well so the blazer is uber low) it makes it easier for me to drive.

Besides, there's another reason I'm anti-SUV. There isn't a lot of gas in the world, and there isn't gonna be any more anytime soon. The more SUVs on the road, the sooner the gas will run out, and, more immediately, their higher gas useage is causing gas prices to skyrocket.

And I'm a terrorist for driving an SUV :rolleyes:.

Sports cars, big rigs, trains, airplanes, boats. They all use a ton of fuel. Does that make them bad? So I guess we all should be driving around little Honda Insights. Wow I would hate to see shipping costs.
 
M5Power
I think those are some of the worst picks I've ever heard for segment leaders in my entire life. :p

Forenza?! Suburban!? Camry!? Range Rover!?

Awful. Purely awful. :p
No, he said "accomry". Get it right! :lol:
Takumi Fujiwara
I take it you've never been stopped at a red light and had a woman on her call phone, driving an SUV, plow into your car at 40MPH? Or had an Excursion back up right onto the hood of your Miata? Or even been hit by an SUV who was parallel parking?

That's why I hate SUVs, they make the roads unsafe for anyone who doesn't prefer to drive a monster vehicle, especially drivers of sports/sporty cars. Not only are they engineered to simply obliterate smaller cars, they also isolate the driver, sealing out any outside noise, and being so high up and so squared off that obstacles/cars close to the front and rear are difficult to see.

Besides, there's another reason I'm anti-SUV. There isn't a lot of gas in the world, and there isn't gonna be any more anytime soon. The more SUVs on the road, the sooner the gas will run out, and, more immediately, their higher gas useage is causing gas prices to skyrocket.
There is some truth to what you are saying. From my personal experience, the worst drivers are moms(or middle aged ladies) and senior citizens. Yes, drunk drivers and teenage drivers are dangerous, but none has hit me yet. Moms and senior citizens drive around like their mind is somewhere else. I've been hit(I have an excellent record) couple of times by moms and one time by an senior citizen, and too many close calls that I was (somehow)able to dodge. Now, a lot of these SUVs are driven by moms(middle aged ladies). Their driving skill(very tiny) mixed with big, truck based SUVs is indeed very scary. :scared:
 
Takumi Fujiwara
I take it you've never been stopped at a red light and had a woman on her call phone, driving an SUV, plow into your car at 40MPH? Or had an Excursion back up right onto the hood of your Miata? Or even been hit by an SUV who was parallel parking?

Personal experience is as good as lying.

Besides, there's another reason I'm anti-SUV. There isn't a lot of gas in the world, and there isn't gonna be any more anytime soon. The more SUVs on the road, the sooner the gas will run out, and, more immediately, their higher gas useage is causing gas prices to skyrocket.

Fine. Let's go through this.

My new SUV is one of the large ones. It weighs 5086lbs., is 76 inches wide, and has a 26.4 gallon fuel tank. It's also 68 inches tall.

My car weighs just 3515lbs, with a width of 68.5 inches, a tank of 16.4 gallons, and a height of 55.4 inches.

The SUV is EPA rated at 17/23 MPG; the car is rated at 16/22.

PEOPLE SCAPEGOAT SUVS BECAUSE IT'S TRENDY.

A million things pollute and consume more than SUVs. I've never seen an environmental group attempt to stop a jet plane flight, even though jet airplanes achieve something like ten gallons per miles. Yes - ten gallons per mile. And they fly everywhere, all the time. How about an auto race? Do you have any idea what those damn NASCAR cars consume? Or LeMans, or F1?

You can't hate SUVs due to consumption. You just can't. There are simply too many things that consume more and more flagrantly than SUVs.

I have no objection to your stance against SUVs for personal reasons (especially in a warm climate - I need an SUV), but SUVs are not an environmental cause. Unless you've never flown on an airplane or used electricity or heat in your home, or consumed food, or used paper, you're no saint either.
 
Takumi Fujiwara
I take it you've never been stopped at a red light and had a woman on her call phone, driving an SUV, plow into your car at 40MPH? Or had an Excursion back up right onto the hood of your Miata? Or even been hit by an SUV who was parallel parking?

That's why I hate SUVs, they make the roads unsafe for anyone who doesn't prefer to drive a monster vehicle, especially drivers of sports/sporty cars. Not only are they engineered to simply obliterate smaller cars, they also isolate the driver, sealing out any outside noise, and being so high up and so squared off that obstacles/cars close to the front and rear are difficult to see.

Besides, there's another reason I'm anti-SUV. There isn't a lot of gas in the world, and there isn't gonna be any more anytime soon. The more SUVs on the road, the sooner the gas will run out, and, more immediately, their higher gas useage is causing gas prices to skyrocket.

I agree that some people that drive SUV's take for granted their size, and some of the inherent dangers they pose to people in "normal" size vehicles. But, I see stupid people on cell phones (without hands-free devices) in every thing from Cavaliers to Minivans, and Miatas to Excursions. I concede that if an Excursion backs into/over your Miata it will do considerably more damage than a Cavalier.


However, now that I own a big, honkin, SUV, I take exception to some of your remarks.

I bought an Excursion, with a diesel, not for everyday driving but for family trips to Colorado and North Carolina.
We have a big family, and it is the ONLY vehicle, short of a school bus, that will carry all my people, and their crap, COMFORTABLY. And with it I don't have to resort to carrying all the luggage on the roof, praying that it doesn't rain.

I wouldn't dream of trying to parallel park the thing. And mine is equipped with the back-up sensors that let you know when you get within 6 feet of something behind you. That knowing that I have been taught to back just about any vehicle anywhere I choose. But because of the sheer size of the Excursion I will only park it where I have plenty of room to maneuver, and clear lines of sight.

We chose the diesel because of the fuel economy. It is also powerful enough to climb the mountains in both directions with all 8 of us aboard. No huffing and puffing like my Venture. And about 3 times the torque. And this at a net loss of 2 MPG compared to the Venture. I keep the Venture for moving the family around town for "short" (less than and hour) trips.
In fact, the Excursion with the turbodiesel is rated at 20 MPG highway. The smaller, gas engined Expedition is rated at 17 MPG highway. My neighbor says his Expedition gets 15 MPG.
Why would I buy a smaller vehicle for the 8 of us, that has poorer fuel economy ratings?

I won't belabor the point that gas prices went down here last week, by about 11 cents a gallon. And for the record, Miatas aren't the thriftiest cars on the planet with gasoline. Nothing that is "sporty" is all that great on gas (30 MPG or better). I don't know about you, but I figure that if my Excursion can pull down 20 MPG with 8 people aboard, my mileage per person is way better than a Miata.

That said: It's not about SUV's using up all the gasoline. It's about not planning your trips and errands so you travel the least miles while accomplishing everything that needs to be done.

SUV's aren't to blame for people's other brain farts.
In all you do remember the "7 P's"
(Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.)
It 'll save more than fossil fuel.

*edit*
and all the stuff the M5 said when he treed me.:lol:
 
M5Power
A million things pollute and consume more than SUVs. I've never seen an environmental group attempt to stop a jet plane flight, even though jet airplanes achieve something like ten gallons per miles. Yes - ten gallons per mile. And they fly everywhere, all the time. How about an auto race? Do you have any idea what those damn NASCAR cars consume? Or LeMans, or F1?

You can't hate SUVs due to consumption. You just can't. There are simply too many things that consume more and more flagrantly than SUVs.

I have no objection to your stance against SUVs for personal reasons (especially in a warm climate - I need an SUV), but SUVs are not an environmental cause. Unless you've never flown on an airplane or used electricity or heat in your home, or consumed food, or used paper, you're no saint either.
I agree that people shouldn't pick on SUVs for fuel consumption, but comparing the mpg to jets and racecars? There's difference between driving your SUVs around and flying to cities, hundreds of miles away. Now, if someones flying to grocery shop or go to McDonald's, that's a different story!
 
Yes, that's true, but did you see the comparison on the mileage between his car and his SUV?
Did you note that my SUV only gets 2 MPG less than my minivan?

Pehaps comparing SUV's and aircraft or racecars is not an apples to apples comparo.
But in the car vs SUV debate mileage is not really a viable comparison when some SUV's do pretty well compared to cars. Especially, when you factor in the people per gallon.
 
I'll do the comparo. I'm in Colorado, so I think we all know I have time on my hands.

Nissan Murano vs. all passenger cars:

Nissan Murano (20/24)
Acura NSX (17/24)
Acura RL (18/26)
Audi A4 3.2 (19/26)
Audi S4
Audi Allroad 2.7T (16/23)
Audi Allroad 4.2 (17/23)
Audi A6 3.2 (19/26)
Audi A6 4.2 (17/23)
Audi A8 4.2 (18/24)
Audi A8L 6.0 (15/21)

I'm bored, but you get the idea.
 
I don't know if Gil's comments were directed at me, but I don't really care about the fuel economy those vehicles get. Heck, if I could afford it, I'd be driving an Lexus(car) with a V-8.
 
Gil
blah blah blah....... Nothing that is "sporty" is all that great on gas (30 MPG or better). blah blah blah....

lotus elise only gets 27 highway according to fueleconomy.gov, but 38 according to puresportscar.com.
(im inclined to believe the latter figure due to the cars extremely low mass.) otherwise you are spot on. for those who truly know how to drive and park a large SUV i have no acrimomy, but seriously, those who bought one just to NOT buy a station wagon or derivative (minivan) bug the hell out of me. of course there is a dearth of choices in the stationwagon arena, and the minivans do everything they do, so choices arent really limited. but,........

M5Power
I think those are some of the worst picks I've ever heard for segment leaders in my entire life.

Forenza?! Suburban!? Camry!? Range Rover!?

Awful. Purely awful.

you're entitled to your opinion based on your criteria, as am i.
the crux of the matter is that in the minivan segment i dont have a clear top pick whereas i do in other segments. i have several contenders but no clear vote getter. you may not agree with my choices, but i made them for specific reasons.

unlike some others i dont choose to parrot your viewpoint as gospel, preferring instead to make my own choices based on my research and observations. does it make my opinion better than others? no. does it make it worse? no. but its my opinion im stating, not gospel. i dont expect it to be popular but such is the way it is.

---------------------------

there are a bunch of industries that pollute far worse than the automobile, power generating plants, mines, industry and so on. i think the thing that assuages the collective mindset for those industies vis a vis pollution and emissions is the "good/utility" generated for a large number of people (passenger airline, power plant etc) vs the utility consumed by only one person.
 
neanderthal
you're entitled to your opinion based on your criteria, as am i.
the crux of the matter is that in the minivan segment i dont have a clear top pick whereas i do in other segments. i have several contenders but no clear vote getter. you may not agree with my choices, but i made them for specific reasons.

What are those reasons? I take the price with most wanted options, subtract an assigned value for most wanted dimensions, and divide by horsepower. And trust me, the Forenza doesn't make it anywhere near the top using this equation. (stablemate Aerio does)

I do believe there's a clear minivan segment leader.
 
my criteria includes some subjective categories. its not hard and fast like yours, it can be swayed by my current opinion of the manufacturer. i certainly do factor in interior dimensions, power, price, std spec etc like you, but if they're close i consider it a wash; i just dont make it a straightup mathematical equation. gut feeling comes into play. an old engine (GMs 3800 V6 for instance) or technology (single point fuel injection) can reduce my opinion even in a thorougly competent car. comparison to what other manufacturers are doing is par for the norm in each class. its by no means completely fair or impartial

i tend to favor the dark horse when the picking gets close. the forenza is more of a dark horse than the mazda 3. as an enthusiast i prefer the 3 and 6 to their competition. they "drive better." but my mom isnt an enthusiast. she would be "one of the sheep" i alluded to earlier, without the owning an SUV part. my picks are kinda geared more towards her and her "kind" than to me and since most people arent enthusiasts, my picks get wierd oftentimes.
 
neanderthal
my criteria includes some subjective categories. its not hard and fast like yours, it can be swayed by my current opinion of the manufacturer. i certainly do factor in interior dimensions, power, price, std spec etc like you, but if they're close i consider it a wash; i just dont make it a straightup mathematical equation. gut feeling comes into play. an old engine (GMs 3800 V6 for instance) or technology (single point fuel injection) can reduce my opinion even in a thorougly competent car. comparison to what other manufacturers are doing is par for the norm in each class. its by no means completely fair or impartial

Okay - that's what I needed. :D

On a daily basis I'm asked to recommend cars to friends, friends of friends, or complete strangers. My system works for the non-enthusiast, which is what most people are.

To me, Forenza has much less horsepower, less standard stuff, and less available stuff than Aerio at the exact same price. Buying Forenza when there's Aerio is a horrible pick. I also like Spectra EX and Elantra GLS.

Suburban is trumped by a three-row Hemi Durango very easily. Durango's cheaper with more power and more stuff. It's not as big, either, but it's just as big inside (Durango has more front seat room and less rear head room by 0.1").

Camry is absolute trash, except for the SE V6 model. To me the segment leader is my 2003 car of the year, the Honda Accord; this time in EX guise. Other top models are the Altima SE, Malibu LT, Galant GTS, and indeed Camry SE V6. All other Camrys are behind the pack on power and standard stuff; Toyota knows they can charge a premium because of the thing's reputation. Camry XLE 4-cylinder is among the top ten worst midsize sedans on the market.

Range Rover is needlessly expensive. I can do a lot better with a lot of cheaper stuff - in fact, I recently did with the Touareg V10 TDI. Or you can get a full-spec Grand Cherokee or Durango and be happy. If you must have a premium badge, Volvo now makes a V8 XC90, and there's always the RX400h. No need to pay so much for a Range Rover.
 
NOW I'm all fired up! As someone who lives in a place where 4x4s (NOT AWD--I'm talking truck/SUV w/4 high and 4 low) outnumber cars & vans like 2 to 1, people don't drive worse because they're in a big truck thingy (there are more 4x4 vehicles per capita in Idaho than any other state, and therefore probably the world). I get stuck doing 20 in a 35 behind a lady on a cell in a civic as often as a van or SUV. I'm halfway between Yellowstone Park and Sun Valley, and we need them for snow, off road ability, and towing. I think people are missing the point here. You get truck-like towing capacity with an SUV--you don't even come close with a minivan. And I would say that almost everyone around here that has a 4x4 SUV has either done a fair amount of real towing, or has ventured off road in their 4x4--it's not just for show. In fact, any vehicle that has a 4x4/2x4 option here will be almost impossible to sell with the 2x4 option. In fact, I feel like this is the type of area everyone likes to THINK they'd like to visit in their SUV, and that's what holds the allure. Blazin made the comment about AWD or 4x4 being more helpful in the RAIN--what a JOKE! We don't even put it in 4x4 every time when it snows--only if it's bad. And you only put it in 4x4 off road if you run out of traction--you don't just put it in 4x4 when you pull off the highway. Get out and lock the hubs? Maybe, if you have to do that, but you don't pull the lever until you REALLY need it.

The Honda Ridgeline is a joke. It is a Miura truck. I don't think it even HAS low--and it doesn't matter. Anyone who knows what low is really for will NEVER buy one of those things. It is a poser vehicle. The 5 full size trucks (with their mid and compact little brothers) will be fighting it out until the end of time. But they have been producing trucks since a) the automobile was invented, or b) at the latest since the 70s. I will never have any more respect for someone driving a ridgline than I do for someone driving a Subaru Baja. Will they sell--of course. Even here, I've seen 1 or 2. Honda being"rugged" is like James Bond going cow tipping. WAKE UP! IT'S JUST A BAD DREAM!
 
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