[POLL] Should all cars be available in Arcade at the beginning?

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by challengerrt10, Mar 9, 2013.

?

Should all GT6 cars be available in Arcade at the beginning?

  1. Yes

    64.0%
  2. No

    36.0%
  1. challengerrt10

    challengerrt10

    Messages:
    239
    Location:
    Poland
    Hi.

    What are your thoughts on that issue? I'd rather have all cars accessible at the beginning at least in Arcade like in Forza.

    I'm not a teenager so I don't have time to spend on playing and unlocking all cars I'm interested in. I have other duties like family, work and etc. I spent over a year and half to unlock everything I wanted in GT5 but in GT6 I'm not inclined to do this again. I want to have all cars available from start in Arcade. Just to drive a stock car, see how it looks inside, how it sounds and etc.

    But if I want to tune a car, play a career, race online or participate in a designated race and events it can remain as it is now, namely the car must be previously bought in A-spec.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
  2. Exorcet

    Exorcet

    Messages:
    7,057
    I thought this thread existed already, but I couldn't find it.

    Anyway yes, without a doubt. You should also be bale to tune them and paint them and take these cars online. Add to that the ability to make fully customizable races against AI. Basically a way to avoid GT mode completely for those not interested.
     
  3. Samus

    Samus

    Messages:
    18,288
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Yes and I cannot think of any possible valid reason why not.
     
  4. challengerrt10

    challengerrt10

    Messages:
    239
    Location:
    Poland
    I know that winning or buying cars in order to have or drive them are typical of this series but it should be changed it GT6. Times are changing, more adult players are playing GT, more hi-tech steering wheels offering unparalleled experience are accessible and it's stupid to spend a half of year just to try or drive an old famous Ferrari;)
     
  5. Exorcet

    Exorcet

    Messages:
    7,057
    I agree. Games like GT are unique among sims for their huge level of car selection, so they hold appeal even when compared to high end sims. However, I don't see the need for an arcadey progression feature. Give me a garage full of race cars in real life and I wouldn't be sad that it took me months to amass the garage. Driving and racing are by the very nature fun. Forcing the player to do things besides racing dilutes the fun.

    Consoles devs have not realized this yet though.
     
  6. Samus

    Samus

    Messages:
    18,288
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I don't get the logic of including 1000 cars (Let's ignore how many are unique for this point) and then basically locking 950 of them away for however long. Especially with the UCD in GT5 but that's another problem entirely.

    The whole basic point of GT or any driving game is to drive the cars, why restrict that completely? There are many cars some people will simply never drive in GT5 not because they don't want to but because they can't.

    Unlike Exorcet I don't have a problem with forcing some sort of progression to own and modify certain cars but certainly there should be an option to fire up a GT game and drive any car in the game straight away. Like I said above, I can't think of a valid reason not to include that option. Unless it's the "I like having to unlock cars and couldn't control myself" brigade from the rewind thread.
     
  7. Akwaaba

    Akwaaba

    Messages:
    858
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I quite like for some cars to be harder to get, and that through game progression they become unlocked. I don't like it when some cars are impossible to get i.e some Chromeline and stealth outside of Europe, Edge and some nascar outside US.

    I think that a significant proportion should be available to arcade immediately. But don't think that every single one should be.

    The arguement that they are included in the game doesn't work for me - almost all games have levels or maps that are unlocked as the game progresses, How many games have everything available straight away?
     
  8. Samus

    Samus

    Messages:
    18,288
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Most PC sims, Forza games have every car available in free race mode. I don't see why GT couldn't as well. If you don't want to drive them then don't, just drive to buy it in the A-Spec like you already do.
     
  9. buickgnx88

    buickgnx88 Premium

    Messages:
    5,608
    Location:
    United States
    Akwaaba: That argument would work for the regular gameplay, but not for arcade mode (where you just pick a car and track and go.)

    It's fine and dandy having to amass a load of money to buy that Aventador in A-Spec mode, but eventually you'll just want to drive that same car on a bunch of tracks without having to jump through hoops, which is why it's nice to just have it unlocked already in Arcade mode. As mentioned, Forza does a great job at this already (I'm taking advantage of this by taking every car around the Top Gear track to get my own lap times).
     
  10. Earth

    Earth

    Messages:
    7,767
    Im OK with all cars unlocked in arcade from the start.

    But as for Arcade cars transferring over to simulation mode or usable online? I dont agree with that.

    My compromise is to give drivers the ability to earn credits in arcade mode races. These credits then transfer over to simulation mode. The credits can be used to buy cars in simulation mode. The simulation mode cars can then be tuned, painted, or used online.

    So both arcade and simulation mode racers have to earn the cars they use online.
     
  11. Exorcet

    Exorcet

    Messages:
    7,057
    Why? There is no advantage to having all cars available for online except for being able to enter more races, and you can't use that to argue because you obviously don't want to be able to do everything right off the bat. All you're doing is making people who would rather be organizing races, finding interesting car set ups, and customizing waste their time. It's pretty fresh in my mind because I just bought FM4 last year. I have to compromise my play time between grinding and playing. Not ideal.

    It's fine if you want to go through GT mode, but there is no reason I should have to do basically the same thing. I doubt that you even took notice of what I was doing in GT5. I know for sure that whatever it was that you were doing had no impact on me. If that's the case, then there's no reason forcing progression on anyone.
     
  12. Saidur_Ali

    Saidur_Ali

    Messages:
    6,424
    It would be good if all cars and tracks will be available in Arcade Mode from start and hopefully good UI selection for it as well as for the tracks. I would expect all cars to be premium in next GT game and also it would be good to have leaderboards GT5P style. All stock cars should also hopefully be available for online racing as well. If that doesn't happen then a blend of GT4 and GT5P features would do for arcade mode.
     
  13. Crispy9001

    Crispy9001

    Messages:
    135
    Location:
    United States
    Don't have it like GT 3, 2 or 1 where you had to complete separate races in Arcade Mode to unlock stuff, but just have a default, generic list of cars and tracks that increases as you progress through GT Mode like in GT4, not even a home or guest garage, but just new cars not in the default list unlocked when you get them in GT Mode. That was probably one of the only real innovations of GT4.
     
  14. Earth

    Earth

    Messages:
    7,767
    Before GT5 released I downplayed the importance of the A-Spec mode as useless and unimportant when compared to online. When we got the horrible GT5 A-Spec mode I realized just how important a quality simulation mode for GT really is. How integral and vital it is to the Gran Turismo experience.

    Making arcade mode essentially the ultimate "shortcut" would really diminish the fun of simulation mode. I cant see myself having the desire to clear 200 or so events in GT6 if I already have every car at my disposal and upgrades dont cost a thing. Earning or unlocking better cars throughout the course of the game is really no different then unlocking or earning better weapons or armor in adventure games.
     
  15. gorsad

    gorsad

    Messages:
    1,613
    Location:
    India
    Yes, it's arcade, we should be allowed to use any car we want to create whatever type of race we want.
     
  16. iRab400

    iRab400

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Ireland
    To answer the question at hand, simply put a quarter (or even half) of the cars in for the acrade,

    that means that when you have friends over you can have a good choice of cars to race/muck about with.

    Also allows you to see some of the cars which are actually in the game, making you want to play the GT Mode A-Spec to unlock them for your own online use, just an extra thought.
     
  17. machschnel

    machschnel

    Messages:
    926
    I've always supported unlocking all cars for Arcade Mode as it doesn't affect anyone other than the individual player. Letting those cars online would affect others who might enjoy "earning" the cars they race.

    It would be nice for everything to be unlocked everywhere, but there needs to be (as always) a compromise.
     
  18. challengerrt10

    challengerrt10

    Messages:
    239
    Location:
    Poland
    Earth
    "Making arcade mode essentially the ultimate "shortcut" would really diminish the fun of simulation mode. I cant see myself having the desire to clear 200 or so events in GT6 if I already have every car at my disposal and upgrades dont cost a thing. Earning or unlocking better cars throughout the course of the game is really no different then unlocking or earning better weapons or armor in adventure games."

    I partially agree with you on that having all cars accessible from the start diminishes the fun of playing A-spec. But I'm a person who knows what makes me fun. I just want to drive a car I'm interested in. I don't race. I have been playing this game for 2 years only for its driving experience. In Forza I've completed only a few percentages of the game, I've only participated in races I wanted to but I'm still playing that game and I don't regret buying it.
    Having cars locked it's outdated. It should be changed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
  19. Prototyp3

    Prototyp3

    Messages:
    397
    Location:
    United States
    100% yes.

    It's arcade mode. This should be a place to play around and have fun.

    Also, if they make the used car dealership as stupid and archaic as it is in GT5 it may be the only way some of us have of ever driving some of the cars.

    Still to this day never seen the BMW Mclaren F1 racecar come up in the UCD. It's beyond stupid.
     
  20. Exorcet

    Exorcet

    Messages:
    7,057
    Doesn't that mean A-Spec is boring and that you shouldn't have to do it? If it was fun and worth doing, you wouldn't need an incentive.

    I also don't see why you would have no desire to do the events, as they would be the same no matter what you have access to. If you wouldn't want to do 200 events with all the cars available, you wouldn't want to do them a limited selection of cars available. The whole point of doing a MR-2 cup, or something, would be because the MR-2 is fun to drive and the race was competitive. Having LMP cars does not change that.


    I agree, it's as pointless no matter the genre and progression serves as an excuse for devs when they want to avoid putting in the effort to make playing the game fun. The one exception might be a story driven game, but there is no reason why you can have the option to follow the story or just do whatever you want.

    A game driven by unlocks is pointless. It ends once you've found everything, assuming it wasn't so boring it drove you away earlier. Focusing on gameplay is the key to entertainment and longevity.

    There is no need for a compromise. The unlockers have what they want, a mode where they need to do something to get something. Everyone else has free mode.

    It wouldn't. For the people that unlocked cars, online would be exactly the same. Having access to all cars grants no advantages in a race, and if the people who need to unlock cars feel left out because they only a dozen or so cars, then maybe they shouldn't be playing the locked version of the game. They obviously aren't enjoying it. You can't have it both ways, either you like unlocking stuff and A-Spec would be good enough for you even if everyone else has everything, or you don't like unlocking and you play free mode. The former group has no reason to complain about other people having all the things.
     
  21. Master Weasel

    Master Weasel Premium

    Messages:
    4,890
    Location:
    United States
    I also think all cars should be available in arcade mode. As long as customization to cars can only be done in carrer mode, I feel there will always be a purpose in doing it. That's how it is in Forza and I never found it pointless to do events in that game.
     
  22. 05XR8

    05XR8

    Messages:
    28,659
    Location:
    Australia
    Yes. If "TUNED" CUSTOMISATION IS STILL AVAILABLE IN ALL CARS LIKE IN GT5P, I say that is the only customisation allowed for arcade/online mode. Other than that, all cars should be available for online mode. That's the fun of it.
     
  23. Tornado

    Tornado

    Messages:
    37,739
    I don't really see why not at this point. PD hasn't even done anything with arcade mode since GT3, so what's the reason to keep the unlock structure of the old arcade mode when you can't even progress it in arcade mode in the first place?
     
  24. BoingsterGT

    BoingsterGT

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Canada
    I voted no just because it makes arcade mode a bit more of a treat when you unlock a specific car that you can use. Although, I hate the system in GT5 where you have to add the cars you unlock in GT mode by buying them and then having to add it to your favorites without and not being able to choose to colour you want. The fact that they are not sorted into their companies is annoying too. GT4's arcade mode menu was much better imo
     
  25. Brutaka

    Brutaka

    Messages:
    3,520
    Location:
    United States
    I would love to drive all the cars through arcade mode but I also enjoy it when you finally get a car you have wanted for a year. I do, however, realize many people don't have time to do so.
    I would be fine either way as I am indifferent.
     
  26. Earth

    Earth

    Messages:
    7,767
    It means A-Spec is time consuming. A possible 200 events with 500+ races is well over 100 hours of driving. Also, what is wrong with incentives? I think it was GTR2 that had some races preloaded and ready to go but I never contested them as I never saw any point to it. I already had all the cars, and I didnt need credits. So the only thing left to do was go online or create a few custom races that I never finished because there was no point or reward to them.

    I dont know if I would have enough desire to do all the events.

    Do real racecar drivers race without knowing they will get a paycheck? Of course they have the desire to race, but without the incentive of pay its unlikely many will put the effort needed into it.

    For me two other big points in doing a MR-2 cup is winning credits and a prize car, perhaps a special edition MR-2. Both of which would be pointless under your scenario. If there is a Daytona 500 endurance race in GT6 I would really look forward to competing in and finishing the race to see what the prize car would end up being.

    Gran Turismo has always been sort of a car collection game and many enjoy "finding/buying/catching them all". We dont dont want to do things because they are easy, but because they are hard.

    In my opinion and Im sure many others, credits, prize cars, etc make the game more fun.

    An example is this thread about the hopeful return of un-buyable cars

    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=269893


    To me it sounds like you hate the general formula of video games. Have you ever considered Gran Turismo might not be for you? Theres plenty of PC sims which offer all that you're looking for. Why push the cold world of PC sims onto console racers? Every time I boot up a PC sim I'm reminded how theres never anything more then a championship or single race mode, and how empty it feels compared to a Gran Turismo game.

    Why cant Gran Turismo have unlocks and great gameplay? Why not both? And its not pointless having to unlock cars for many. Please see the above thread I linked.

    Does it really end after collecting all the cars? Its no different then collecting all the building tools for Little Big Planet's editor in the game levels. It adds extra incentive to do the levels for those who are more interested in the editor. You're basically saying Little Big Planet should ship without single player levels and only the complete editor. Again many/most would disagree with you on that point.

    If you posted a poll asking whether people want your Formula or the Gran Turismo Formula of the past decade+, it would certainly be a landslide.
     
  27. no1pal

    no1pal

    Messages:
    288
    Location:
    Norway
    Arcade mode should have all cars and tracks available from the start. This would not discourage me for doing the GT Mode at all.
     
  28. Da-Bomber

    Da-Bomber

    Messages:
    347
    The should have at least 20 secret cars not available in arcade.
     
  29. Exorcet

    Exorcet

    Messages:
    7,057
    That it is, rewards or not. However if half the game is hidden behind A-Spec, that time becomes time the player must spend in A-Spec, even if the player would want to spend that time elsewhere.
    They shouldn't be thought of as necessary. If you need incentives to play something, the game is not enticing. That's a problem. Games exist to be enticing. I don't need an incentive to cash pay checks, because having excess money is a pretty good thing.
    I would take that as a sign that racing itself doesn't interest you.



    You don't have to even do all of them though.

    The payout is going to affect their standard of living, and racing isn't exactly cheap. This is not the case in the sim.
    Now if these racers are wealthy or able to race without much impact on the rest of their lives, I'm sure they wouldn't need an incentive. I did not need an incentive to do FSAE, even if the incentives for not doing it (more free time, possibly better grades) were sometimes strong.




    Difficulty doesn't factor in. Unlocks don't add to it, they only make things take longer.



    I do not like the poorly thought out design of many games, I'll admit that. It's hard to "appreciate" them when you've seen many other video games move on to a better formula. PC sims have the basic formula down, but do often lack console sim car counts and a few other misc features. Also, I didn't just pick up GT yesterday, I started with GT1. There are various reasons why I'm still involved with the game and why I did not go down the PC path already, although I'm leaning that way now.
    I'm hoping one side will get everything right one day, because then my decision will be easy. This has not happened yet though.



    I should be the one asking this question. Actually, I have. This was exactly my proposal. Leave GT Mode for the unlockers and turn the rest of the game into a PC sim. The idea was shot down. I'm still not sure why. Apparently you want to go through the process of unlocking things, but that process is so uninteresting that you would not be able to stick to it without being forced to.

    Don't remind me. The beginning of each game was terrible. All I wanted to do was create levels, but again straight up having fun is not part of video game design it seems. I was lucky with LBP1, I copied a save and skipped the whole thing. I found the game pretty fun. LBP2 came out and saves were locked. I ended up not buying it. It wasn't just because I had to sit through the rather boring initial part of the game and have my own creativity compromised by pointless restrictions, but that certainly did not help. I mean the game was advertised as some kind of creative adventure and then you get it and you a forced to do the same thing you would do in many other games. I can't follow that.

    I do not care at all, we don't need a poll to settle anything. They can do what they want as long I have the ability to jump in and actually play the game. When you can satisfy both parties, do so.
     
  30. IceMan PJN

    IceMan PJN

    Messages:
    1,955
    Location:
    United States
    I'm fine with all cars being available in arcade mode because arcade mode is just farting around and doesn't count as any sort of accomplishment. You have no goals to work towards so there is nothing to accomplish, so there isn't much point in requiring accomplishment to get the cars for a mode with no accomplishment.

    I still want players to have to earn cars in the actual core game, though. By this I mean earning money to buy cars. What needs to go are level requirements for being able to get (Or was it to drive?) cars. "Well, I need this car for this event but the car is level 137 and I'm only level 83." In real life I don't need to reach a certain level to go to a dealership and buy a car as long as I have the money (more likely financing) for it.