POLL: The Time Trials are filled with Cheaters?

[Hastatus]

Discussion:

First it was the Cusco Suburua Advan Impreza with its 310 pre-oil change HP rubber-band-lowered to 295 HP.

Now first place is held by an Aemiya Asparadrink RX-7 04 rubber-band-lowered from 317 HP.

Which car is next: one that requires 1.5 weeks of rubber-banding?

I avoided the Time Trials for a long while thinking I would leave it to those good drivers. I don’t know what led me to try the last set, but when I placed in the top 250 I was quite proud of myself. It was only day two so I had no delusions of grandeur and fully expected my time to be wiped off the face of the earth and end up around 5000 or so. But as time went by I realized my time wasn’t beat by drivers it was beat by artificially worn out cars. Maybe those drivers are better than me, maybe not. Seeing how flawed this system is just reinforces my avoidance of such leader boards and understanding why PD avoids them and wipes them out on a regular basis.

Those who have used massively worn out cars are cheating. I wandered into the Time Trials with hesitation just wanting to compare my skill to others, not my car’s mileage to their’s.

PD needs to restrict cars or limit entry to those cars with fresh oil changes and engine refurbishments, or perhaps a maximum mileage.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

I wouldn't class it as cheating. I mean the performance is actually that of the lower HP surely? But I would say it's not in the spirit that PD intended. You should be able to restrict HP in tuning any way to be honest, these people are just finding a hack to do it.

 

[drivehard]

Yea, I like that idea. By no means will I be at the top but at least I'll know that it's an even playing field. I just don't want to take the time to do that to a car. Just let me drive!

 

[scca_ziptie]

Please don't answer here. This duplicate thread should be deleted.

1) Yes, those who artificially wear out cars to get them to meet the maximum HP requirements are cheaters misusing a loophole in the system.
2) No, they are not cheaters and should have the right to use such cars.
3) I am undecided.
4) I don't understand what is actually transpiring here.

Discussion:

First it was the Cusco Suburua Advan Impreza with its 310 pre-oil change HP rubber-band-lowered to 295 HP.

Now first place is held by an Aemiya Asparadrink RX-7 04 rubber-band-lowered from 317 HP.

Which car is next: one that requires 1.5 weeks of rubber-banding?

I avoided the Time Trials for a long while thinking I would leave it to those good drivers. I don’t know what led me to try the last set, but when I placed in the top 250 I was quite proud of myself. It was only day two so I had no delusions of grandeur and fully expected my time to be wiped off the face of the earth and end up around 5000 or so. But as time went by I realized my time wasn’t beat by drivers it was beat by artificially worn out cars. Maybe those drivers are better than me, maybe not. Seeing how flawed this system is just reinforces my avoidance of such leader boards and understanding why PD avoids them and wipes them out on a regular basis.

Those who have used massively worn out cars are cheating. I wandered into the Time Trials with hesitation just wanting to compare my skill to others, not my car’s mileage to their’s.

PD needs to restrict cars or limit entry to those cars with fresh oil changes and engine refurbishments, or perhaps a maximum mileage.

(I apologize if my poll is non-functional: it's the first time I wanted or tried to include a poll, but the poll interface is not very intuitive.)

Ask a mod to "remove" this double post.

 

[-raVer-]

Wearing out a car or adding tuning parts to it , where´s the difference?
In both cases the car is modiefied or do you use stock cars?


raVer

 

[Hastatus]

Ask a mod to "remove" this double post.

I'm trying to figure that out right now.

 

[niky]

I've simply merged the threads, as the discussion has already started in the one you marked for deletion.

As long a the car is fully legal under the regulations, it's all cool, in my book. When I first learned of the oil trick, it made me chuckle, actually. The first guy who thought of it was about as innovative as the first engineer who realized that you could make a zillion foot-pounds of torque and still meet the WRC power cap.

What I'd consider cheating would be off-track driving, but if the game allows that one, there's little we can do about it.

 

[gambleboyen]

It's not really cheating, but they are using cars which were not intended for the TT.

Although if they want to have their PS3s on 24/7 for a week to make their car qualify, that's their choice. Not much else they get to do in that time.

PD could fix this by making TTs where the regulations are only stock cars, and maybe just a small selection of available cars, maybe even just one.

 

[speedy_2]

It's cheating. Would lowering the HP of a formula car not be cheating? Same principle. exploiting loopholes/glitches/etc to be on a leader board is pretty sorry anyway.

 

[ucwepn]

HAHA its smart and totally moronic at the same time, People risking YLOD for a temporary leaderboard lol, I can see PD adding a little bump that sends you spinning in the fence at indy just for the rubber banders.

 

[Eskimojos]

It's cheating. Would lowering the HP of a formula car not be cheating? Same principle. exploiting loopholes/glitches/etc to be on a leader board is pretty sorry anyway.

Agreed, I am still surprised that more searching questions were not asked of Red Bull and Ferrari about their flexible front wings. It is a very fine line between exploiting loopholes and outright cheating. However competition is competition so as distasteful as I find people exploiting rubber-banding to get their way to the top it is still within the letter of the law, just not the spirit. Big distinction.

 

[o9lifted]

The car should be listed as original bhp in e.g the garage where you go the list of cars and it says bhp and weight this would be a nice place to spot the original bhp but when entering a gar (still in garage, you see the car goes around with all its specs etc) you would see the rubber banded bhp...

Edit: Then the car entrance would be strickted by original bhp

 

[Rudi Raser]

but they are using cars which were not intended for the TT.

Who said that? Maybe thats the plan from PD, who find the best car? Who knows that? If they give us a so crasy b-spec system for example, why not who downgrade the best car?

 

[gambleboyen]

Who said that? Maybe thats the plan from PD, who find the best car? Who knows that? If they give us a so crasy b-spec system for example, why not who downgrade the best car?

Nobody said it of course, but I don't think the point of power loss through long usage was to allow certain cars to compete in hp regulated races.

 

[tigermilk]

Don't know why it's so hard to have time trials with only one car choice, no mods, no tuning. Everyone plays with the same configuration such that it's driving skill being tested, not your ability to tune or find loopholes.

 

[Sluffer]

Don't know why it's so hard to have time trials with only one car choice, no mods, no tuning. Everyone plays with the same configuration such that it's driving skill being tested, not your ability to tune or find loopholes.

I believe that is what should be done, PD supplies the car to use with no power tuning upgrades available, only suspension/gearbox/lsd set up available.

 

[Delrond]

I don't understand how it can be called cheating. The car meets the regulations, and that's that.

In fact, I'd go as far as saying that anything you can do in the game without actually hacking the software isn't cheating. You might not like certain behaviours or exploits that aren't, personally, in the spirit of the game, but they remain just that; exploits.

Would you call it cheating if someone had accidentally forgotten to oil change a car after an endurance race, say, and then entered the TT on a whim? Sort garage by power or weight - that one fits - off I go...

 

[PAWEL17]

Don't know why it's so hard to have time trials with only one car choice, no mods, no tuning. Everyone plays with the same configuration such that it's driving skill being tested, not your ability to tune or find loopholes.

Yes i completely agree with you.

 

[Hastatus]

Technically they are not cheating officially but their attitude does seem to me to resemble that of cheater's motto of anything at all cost. My definition of ‘cheating’ is perhaps harsher than most, but I do believe that they are driving off the track (figuratively speaking). Laws are always created after the types of events which they are intended to prevent have already occurred.

I guess the question is more along the lines of would you want rules preventing this action in the future?

1) Some higher HP cars will probably have specs besides the engine that allow them to drive faster: weight, rpms, innate steering characteristics, etc (not everything is about HP).

2) People shouldn’t have to spend an exorbitant amount of time prepping cars before they fine tune their driving line. The difference between positive modifications and negative reductions (which I admit is ingenious in itself) is the amount of time one must put in to do so: upgrades cost a little money and minutes while these HP decreases require dozens of hours (which is not available or remotely appealing to the majority of players (I hope!) who should have the right to compete on a level playing field without that hassle).

3) People who spend such time wearing down their cars clearly don’t think they would stand a chance without them or they wouldn’t be doing it in the first place.

4) What happens when such people start duping their advantageous cars with their friends? Duping is not technically cheating (yet) and so neither can giving a friend such a car to have an advantage over others: or does this start to cross lines in your mind? A few people have likened this to cutting corners on the tracks: just because you can do something and there isn’t enough programming to prevent something doesn’t mean it is right to do so. It is up to the community to decide.

5) Given that these time trials are world wide and can be easily changed (due to the dynamic nature of online games), there is a good chance that PD will eventually see this situation and it will be important for them to see what the players actually think. Do we want the spirit of the time trials to head down this path and lose their original meaning? Do you really want to have to rubber-band a car for a couple days to be competitive?

[Thank you Niky for merging the threads.]

 

[Rudi Raser]

3) People who spend such time wearing down their cars clearly don’t think they would stand a chance without them or they wouldn’t be doing it in the first place.

You think so, but looks like you not really knows about the people. For example, Olli_Brenner is one of the fastest guys i know, he is always on the top, doesn´t matter which car he use. so, before you are talking about something like that, make sure you are not wrong.

I can agree with Delrond. And yes, i hope also that PD will change this system with the next update. 👍

And yes, he will send me his car too. I call it friendship, helping each others.

 

[Rylan]

Wearing out a car to reduce HP is a perfectly valid tactic. Rubber banding to reduce HP is cheating.

 

[Faria0808]

Cheater = Guy who can't play games, and need cheats for do it...

Fast Drivers = People that are fu**ing fast and do the possible to be the 1st
----
Got it ?

 

[Counter_Z23]

I don't even care.

You don't exactly win anything if you are ranked 1st on the leaderboard...

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

It's not cheating.

However, it is about the most stupid thing I've ever heard of in my life and completely ruins the time trials knowing I have to first spend ages hunting down the specific car in the UCD, then once I do find it spend ages again running it so the HP lowers, so I can then finally put parts on it and run some laps. Not even worth the bother in my book.

On Forza, I hated driving cars in pure stock form, but I'm starting to think that's the only way I'll ever get any hotlapping enjoyment out of this game is if they introduce stock TT's. Atleast make them locked to stock HP and build.

 

[CanoeTTT]

If it isn't a "spec" race then modifying cars by installing equipment, changing the oil, wearing them out is all good.

 

[dhandeh]

I wonder how low the x1 would go!

 

[MADDAD]

i think it ok to use the scuby for one good reason, after much searching it finally showed up in the sh car lot and was listed as 295hp, so i buy it and when i open it in my garage it has gone to 311hp. if i bought it in good faith why should i not use it and if pd dont want this to happen why list it at 295hp???

 

[GCMBoxertech]

its not cheating but it is "frowned upon"

 

[MADDAD]

whatever , but i do agree it wastes a lot of time to get the "right " car

 

[freshseth83]

Half these cats can't drive fast in real life so it's all good. Video game racers aren't always good at real races. Tracking a car is much more challenging than having to beat some guys on a leaderboard who use track cuts as run off areas to keep speed. Then got some trick tunes that allow them extra speed over an exact same car. I say keep the settings stock and the cars stock, no tuning, same tires, see who really is good and who is not. I haven't figured out the way they can get in the 2:40's around cape ring, I don't follow the leader, and that track cut technique is pretty sad.