POLL: The Time Trials are filled with Cheaters?

[shade71]

If the car meets the requirements then exactly what is the technical advantage?

 

[pantherjag]

personally i dont think its cheating, the car obviously matches the regulations so fair play to them.

 

[pantherjag]

I wonder how low the x1 would go!

My xi has done 3000 miles without an engine overhaul or oil change and doesnt go below 1482

I hate the thing so refuse to spend money on it, bob wins me plenty though using it

 

[atiger]

I don't see what the big deal's about, people are using their smarts and ingenuity, that's what games are about. As the old saying goes, if you can't beat 'em join em. Better than being a sore loser.

 

[WRECKU]

Tuning is tuning to get a desired affect to meet a requirement. Oil changes or lack of them is not cheating. Cutting corners is.

 

[Rylan]

If the car meets the requirements then exactly what is the technical advantage?

It comes down to the fact that adding speed to your car doesn't always translate to speed on a track and that sometimes a cars engine can be too powerful for the car it's in.

Generally, higher BHP cars are designed for speed and handle better so, if you got time to spare, running a cars BHP down 30 or 40bhp to get it to ( for example )200bhp will give you an advantage over a car which runs at 200bhp normally.

This in itself is a perfectly valid tactic.

Rubber banding to get you down to a restriction give you an unfair advantage over players which don't do it. Hence the cheating.

It's interesting that all the rubber banders say "It doesn't give us an advantage" but when you point out where it does, they still argue it.

 

[Hastatus]

… For example, Olli_Brenner is one of the fastest guys i know, he is always on the top, doesn´t matter which car he use. …

That’s an unusual comment in my mind. He could do it with the same car most others use…but then spends so much time getting this even more difficult car into the competition? I’m not saying that he isn’t a good driver, but his means start looking questionable in my mind.

It comes down to the fact that adding speed to your car doesn't always translate to speed on a track and that sometimes a cars engine can be too powerful for the car it's in.

Generally, higher BHP cars are designed for speed and handle better so, if you got time to spare, running a cars BHP down 30 or 40bhp to get it to ( for example )200bhp will give you an advantage over a car which runs at 200bhp normally.

This in itself is a perfectly valid tactic.

Rubber banding to get you down to a restriction give you an unfair advantage over players which don't do it. Hence the cheating.

It's interesting that all the rubber banders say "It doesn't give us an advantage" but when you point out where it does, they still argue it.

Well said.

Most cheaters have always seemed delusional to me. When you can lie to yourself it's easy to not make sense when you talk to others and not realize that you aren't making any sense.

 

[Fausticus]

I haven't figured out the way they can get in the 2:40's around cape ring, I don't follow the leader, and that track cut technique is pretty sad.

Might be a bit off topic and I could be teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, but at the Capering the parts of the track that are coloured red/blue are actually low grip which if you drive on the road in the UK at least is counter intuitive as red usually means high grip here.

I’ve saved lots of time by braking and accelerating whilst off them and just rolling around the corner, if I don’t I either run wide under brakes or a power slide on exit.

Keeping it tight through the multiple apex corner and funnily enough not running wide/cutting the chicane makes me faster, it gives better acceleration and more time to brake before the red/blue hairpin.

Setup didn’t make allot of difference after raising the front and lowering the rear but setting the gearing to 180mph and shifting at 6k rpm did.

 

[Mr P]

Calling it Cheating is a bit extreme as far as i'm concerned! It's simply finding a loophole in the games allowances and bending them to suit, Not everyone has the time to run the cars dead on oil tbh... but say someone has just run countless enduro's and the car they used is down to 295hp already and they enter that car, is that cheating? nah its just a fluke and a damn good one at that

If people cut corners or ride walls around a track I'm sure they deserve to be called cheats, but on this subject it's just part of the games weakness being exploited and I can defo vouch for the top runners like Olli and Eclipsi being able to be at the top no matter what car it is... everyone wants to drive the best car for each particular combo and it just happens to be the cars sitting on 295hp with dead oil for these TT's, thats life I suppose

Now who's going to send me a 295hp amemiya? and save me 12 hours rubber banding

 

[SohnVonStig]

If a guy runs around in a garbage bag to lose waterweight for a wrestling weigh-in, is he cheating? Is he even bending the rules?

Fact is, car's DO lose HP if they've been running for a long time. Even faster when they're run at full throttle. If the restrictions for a race are 300hp and on "race day" the car gets dynoed at <300 hp then it is fit to race.

There are many cheats in racing, running a car that fits all the regulations is NOT one of them.

 

[JerseyBoy85ss]

Half these cats can't drive fast in real life so it's all good. Video game racers aren't always good at real races. Tracking a car is much more challenging than having to beat some guys on a leaderboard who use track cuts as run off areas to keep speed. Then got some trick tunes that allow them extra speed over an exact same car. I say keep the settings stock and the cars stock, no tuning, same tires, see who really is good and who is not. I haven't figured out the way they can get in the 2:40's around cape ring, I don't follow the leader, and that track cut technique is pretty sad.

Geez i thought i was reading the GT academy thread for a minute. And as alwas it comes back to the same response. The cream always rises to the top. Stock cars or not its always gona be the same names on the top of the boards, not because they cheat but because they are good.

 

[shade71]

Leader boards are pretty skewed across all genres of games for many reasons. I don't get caught up in that as its not likely to change.

 

[Timppaq]

We need the stock TT leaderboards back asap! I don't expect for all the combos (all cars in all tracks) but all tracks with say 50 - 100 interesting cars would be great. And the leaderboards should stay too, not really fond of this style of vanishing all the efforts made to get those times.

Throw in another similar set of combos with tuning and everybody would be happy.

 

[hennessey86]

as far as im conserned the people who no how to tune have the advantage in the time trials, why not force stock tunes so then its down to the driver. im not saying id win but it would fell alot fairer.

 

[SohnVonStig]

as far as im conserned the people who no how to tune have the advantage in the time trials, why not force stock tunes so then its down to the driver. im not saying id win but it would fell alot fairer.

There's nothing unfair about this form of time trial. Noone ever said the time trials were there to determine the best driver.

This sort of time trial picks out the people who are a combo best at driving AND tuning.

 

[Zkippe]

This sort of time trial picks out the people who are a combo best at driving AND tuning.

...and those who have the time and will to wear their cars' engines to fit within given restrictions or to fit more tuning parts compared to a "healthy" car. Believe me, even with same model, dirty oil + additional parts vs "normally" tuned car makes a BIG difference. I first learned this few weeks ago at the japanese classic time trial at Cape Ring. Since then I haven't bothered much with the TTs as I don't have the time and will to do those tricks.

+1 from me to stock time trials.

 

[GTmaniac]

Half these cats can't drive fast in real life so it's all good. Video game racers aren't always good at real races. Tracking a car is much more challenging than having to beat some guys on a leaderboard who use track cuts as run off areas to keep speed. Then got some trick tunes that allow them extra speed over an exact same car. I say keep the settings stock and the cars stock, no tuning, same tires, see who really is good and who is not. I haven't figured out the way they can get in the 2:40's around cape ring, I don't follow the leader, and that track cut technique is pretty sad.

Could you watch my replay and tell me where did I cut the track??Perhaps I'm blind or something??

Best regards,
Zoky

 

[dude2106]

Why isn't there just a menu where you can manually restrict the horsepower and increase the weight of the car. Like they do in real racing. They make a car as light as possible and then They fill the bottom with led to make it meet the weight restrictions. It should be possible to do in a game.

 

[Rylan]

If a guy runs around in a garbage bag to lose waterweight for a wrestling weigh-in, is he cheating? Is he even bending the rules?

If the guy has a rubber band run round for him in a garbage bag so he doesn't have to......Yes, yes he is.

 

[Hastatus]

The New Rubber-Bander Car
So I guess that the next car to be rubber-banded has been the Amemiya Asparadrink RX-7 06 (the premium 06 version instead of the used 04 version). This car starts off at 305 HP but given that you start off with a brand new motor, will get a boost from breaking it in, and you won’t need an oil change for a while, I assume it takes longer to wear down than the used version (though I could be wrong). The 06 now holds 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 7th in the rankings (as well as 27th, 143rd, 203rd). The 04 now holds 9th, 19th, 26th, 64th and 89th. The high density of the 06 at the top clearly shows the advantage these cars have.

Perception of this Situation related to Where you Live?
It's interesting when you consider people's nationality and how they view this as cheating (or highly negative) as opposed to completely legitimate.

Of the people who posted in this thread and have their nationality listed:
Americans and Canadians seem to be split 1:1 (against rubber-banded cars vs for them)
while
Others are split about 2:3 (against rubber-banded cars vs for them) --> of these the majority of those against the rubber-banding seem to be from the UK.

In the actual rankings 13 Americans and Canadians have employed the S2000,
only 6 have employed a Cusco, and none have employed an Amemiya.

Those who have employed the Amemiya:
France: 7 people
Japan: 4
Finland: 1
Germany: 1
Spain: 1

What do you think? Did a couple people from France and Japan dupe the car and share between friends? Or are the French pro rubber-banders? lol Maybe all these Amemiya users have just used their car enough to wear them down and never bothered to maintain their favorite... sorry I couldn't keep a straight face for this possibility.

The Poll
I think the poll is clearly indicating that there is a division between whether this rubber-banding of cars to wear them out is right or wrong, good or bad, honorable or dishonorable, legit or OCD, etc. This division is clearly strengthened by those who couldn’t make up their minds: and obviously have some hesitation about considering it completely legit on moral grounds as opposed to programming allowances. When there is such a division the thing that puts it one way or another for me is when I consider the following: Is it more likely that people online will be excessively suffering from ‘goody-two-shoes-syndrome’ or ‘devil-on-their shoulders-syndrome’? I’ll let you interpret this on your own.

 

[VolkswagenX]

I was so proud of myself being in 119th place with a s2000 on a controller. Beat alot of people using a wheel and the subaru cusco thing That was 2 days ago so now i've probebly dropped to somewhere around 200 since more people are starting to use these cars Cheating or not I just think its sad that people will go so far to get a place at the top...

I wish PD made leaderboards for different cars like in gt5p.

 

[cedpo]

IMO... I have not really tried any TT yet, I just tried the first one for a few minutes, with the same car as the leaders were using, but I probably didn't even make all the modifications / tunning possible... And when I realized there was no prize (in game cash or XP) I abandoned it... As I don't have that much time to play and I prefer to accumulate XP to unlock the other challenges. Right now I am around level 16 in B-spec (which I consider another waste of time) and have just reached lvl 30 in A-spec, so right now I am foccusing on getting the Vettel Red Bull X1 car (or whatever it is called), but I even haven't had much time to really try hard...

So I really don't care much about those TT's.

But, as I came to read this thread and reflect about it... I don't think it is cheating. If the rules allow it, so be it. Too bad for me and others if we don't have time to let the cars running 24/7 for a week. I just feel really, really sorry for those who do that, as I think it is a complete waste of time and they won't even get nothing in return except to say they're first place at the GT5 TT (believe me, your girlfriend DOESN'T CARE about this, and if you don't have a girlfriend, your mom ALSO DOESN'T CARE, lol)...

Should PD fix this? Yes, they should, I think they should specify that the TT is to be run with one specific car, with exactly the HP you'd get from it in stock conditions plus oil change.

But if they don't fix it, then I don't care, let everyone do whatever they want of their time, and if getting a top place at the TT is so important for them, then be it...

 

[Torquemada42]

The time trials would be a real draw for me if they were done with one model stock or with fixed tunes. Even the current form would be something I'd definitely spend a fair bit of time on if it weren't for this rubberband de-tuning stuff. It doesn't seem to be cheating, but it's certainly off-putting.

And for those saying 'it gives no advantage', this is counterintuitive in three important ways. Firstly; more sophisticated faster cars are likely to have better handling characteristics, better aerodynamics, etc, etc. Secondly; If it gives no advantage, the people de-tuning their cars would have to be mad to spend all that time doing so just to compete in an online time trial without gaining anything. Thirdly; These cars are consistently filling out the top spots on the leader boards.

 

[freshseth83]

I'm not sure about the cape ring on this time trial (7) but in the academy they were using the cut track technique. I guess people are running ride height higher in the front than the rear? Weird because I watched a few replays and saw this with the Lancer Evo Super Rally car.

 

[rhpamman82]

Dear GT5ers,

I think that the only solution is for the GT Team to offer 4 time trials for each seasonal event. Two could be in the current format, where rubber-banding and tuning is fair game and the other two using stock cars 👍

That's it, argument ended! GT Team, get ON IT.........coz many of us have serious jobs, families, etc, etc, etc and we don't have 4 f*$%ing days to run the hp down. Please.......give us a competition we will enjoy.

As for drifting, we must be joking. What we get in the top 10 by by going round and round in circles before the finishing line. This is no competition, it's a joke

 

[freshseth83]

I don't bother drifting, not my cup of tea, it's cool for those who can do it though. I'm more into 'grip' driving.

 

[smrtb0mb]

Well I suppose it's not cheating. It is, however, unbelievably dumb to change it from a competition between the fastest drivers into a competition between who has the most time to waste.

 

[pampsu]

I don't see any worries about this anymore because it's possible to reduce power in tuning settings for any car.

 

[Smarty_Parts]

I am on the band wagon of people that believe that PD supplying a Fun car to drive on a decent track (which hopefully shouldn't be to hard with new anti-corner cutting things in place) would be the way to go. Not only does it promote fair competition, its gives the people who love the game, and love driving something more to aspire to. I personally would love the feeling of knowing that given the same conditions as everyone else, i am a top 200 or so driver. With the current system in place, its the feeling of knowing that i have absolutely no life, and exploit portions of the game PD never intended to be used to gain such Ranks. That is why it is cheating. If cheating is to accurate of a word for you, fine, call it dirty racing. Either way, PD NEED to incorporate a One-make TT for us Real driving fans to enjoy.

 

[givmedew]

well i guess this topic is NULL and VOID with the latest update LOL