Poll Video of Webber Vettel Crash

  • Thread starter Thread starter Radracing
  • 67 comments
  • 9,801 views

Did Webber move right to left at 0:15 in video

  • Total voters
    51
irnbrutwinturbo
You obviously can't read either, the question in the poll doesn't even mention Vettel, smarty pants. :dunce:

To the OP, is their any reason why you still haven't corrected the title?
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Don't know how to edit the title. Can some that knows how to spell Vettel correct it please (Mods) I did that with the Schumacher Poll too. :dopey:

Ardius
There was nothing really wrong with where Vettel was passing there. Overtaking on the inside into Turn 12 is a common move, and he could have defeated Webber's defense going into the corner with some demon braking and clever use of the line into Turn 13 and then Turn 14 to keep ahead.

It wasn't really kamikaze at all, the turn right into Webber was kamikaze.
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Exactly! It was naive of him to think that Webber was just going to pull to the side and that was Vettles mistake. Webbers mistake was not playing it safe and just give him all the room in case he (Vettel) does something stupid like turn into him or if he did lose a wheel on the grass and get out of wack to hit him.

Opps, double post sorry.
 
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Radracing
Don't know how to edit the title. Can some that knows how to spell Vettel correct it please (Mods) I did that with the Schumacher Poll too. :dopey:
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You can edit the title. On the forum page, double click on the empty space to the right of the thread title.
 
Radracing
Exactly! It was naive of him to think that Webber was just going to pull to the side and that was Vettles mistake. Webbers mistake was not playing it safe and just give him all the room in case he (Vettel) does something stupid like turn into him or if he did lose a wheel on the grass and get out of wack to hit him.

Opps, double post sorry.
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Webber made no mistake, he was fighting for position - teammate or not - and for the championship lead. "Playing it safe" just doesn't win you races and championships.
Vettel had the room, I don't see how his stupidity is "Webbers mistake" just because Webber didn't forsee it.
 
Vettel tried to do a Gran Turismo pass.
 
Yes, Webber clearly did move from right to left. The gap was bigger at the time Vettel dived into it than when he was alongside Webber. Webber could have easily defended his position without squeezing out Vettel.

That doesn't make it Webber's fault though, he only created the perfect circumstances for a crash.
 
Smallhorses
I don't see how Webber has done anything wrong by maintaining a straightline unless he was specifically told to move over by his team, or he & Vettel had some sort of wacky pre-race agreement that he'd let the German past him. :boggled:
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Kind of...

BBC F1 Friday Gossip Column
Going into lap 40 of the Turkish Grand Prix - the lap Red Bull drivers Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel collided - team boss Christian Horner instructed Webber's race engineer Ciaron Pilbeam to tell Webber to allow Vettel past. Pilbeam could not bring himself to pass the message on. (Autosport magazine)
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So Vettel may have been told to expect Mark to move over and Mark had no clue he was coming!
 
I am not really up to speed on exact rules but wouldn't that be a team order that wouldn't be allowed?
 
It depends for what reason. If it was to save fuel so that he could make it to the end of the race then no.

Even if it wasn't that's how they would have presented it to the stewards (or using some other loophole).
 
Seismica
I'll post the same video here as I did in the Turkey GP thread:




Look at how Schumacher takes the central line. Hamilton goes down the outside. Schumacher squeezes him out on the exit.

Exactly the same happened in Turkey with the Red Bulls. Except Vettel chose the inside line and made a hash of it.

As Famine keeps telling you, what Webber did was textbook defending.

Obviously when they began to turn in Webber would have had to give room. The simple fact is Vettel moved over far too soon. (He had no need to move over at all to be honest, he had the inside to get the apex for turn 12. He could have ran wide out of 12 to squeeze Webber out).
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We all know the difference between this two videos. They both gave each other room and did not make contact. Even if Michael tried to put the sqease on Hamilton. The other two RB didn't so they messed up considering they are team mates. Were as Michael and Hamilton weren't but they still drove clean and mean.
 
DQuaN
So Vettel may have been told to expect Mark to move over and Mark had no clue he was coming!
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I think he already knew


Autosport
Although Webber had led the race from the outset, Vettel closed on him just prior to the crash and, in an exclusive interview with AUTOSPORT, Horner said Webber had radioed the team asking if Vettel could ease off - a request Red Bull was unwilling to allow with the McLarens of Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button close behind.

"It was quite clear that with the speed advantage the McLarens had on the straight, it was impossible to fall back into them," Horner told AUTOSPORT.

"Mark had requested the lap before to ask Sebastian to back off a bit. There was no way you could do that because of the McLarens being right there."
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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84093
 
Dodzzz
I think he already knew




http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84093
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Oohhh! I that would show the signs of desperation for a driver that wanted to keep the lead but couldn't afford to go any faster since he is low on fuel. With the Mclarens closing in too. :scared:

Busted!

So the only alternative for a desparate man would be to takeout the the other guy?
 
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Jay
I am not really up to speed on exact rules but wouldn't that be a team order that wouldn't be allowed?
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DQuaN
It depends for what reason. If it was to save fuel so that he could make it to the end of the race then no.

Even if it wasn't that's how they would have presented it to the stewards (or using some other loophole).
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It wouldn't have washed, not with Mark, not with us and certainly not with the stewards.
The team would need full proof that Mark was not going to make it and from what we can see, he was always going to make it.

The point of the no team orders rule is that the drivers make the decision, so its more of a race rather than the drivers being threatened with contracts if they dont pull over. I'm doubtful Mark would ever have felt he should let Vettel past easily, regardless of their different fuel strategies.

Also, Vettel wasn't too healthy on fuel either, he had more than Mark at that point, but he was burning it off catching him up and passing him.

The stuff about miscomunication of the team engineers sounds like rubbish to me, mostly because that wasn't the original excuse, its just that sounds better now for the team. 👎
Even if true, its no reason for Vettel to have been so quick to turn right - Mark would have had to back out of the throttle well before that and not even tried to defend the position. This was never going to happen, as I said, Webber wasn't that much better off than Vettel and was always going to make it hard for him regardless of fuel differences.
 
I thought they were trying to hide team orders from the start. They wanted Vettel to pass Webber. But they can't really say much, since they always claim they treat their drivers equally.
 
Ardius
It wouldn't have washed, not with Mark, not with us and certainly not with the stewards.
The team would need full proof that Mark was not going to make it and from what we can see, he was always going to make it.

The point of the no team orders rule is that the drivers make the decision, so its more of a race rather than the drivers being threatened with contracts if they dont pull over. I'm doubtful Mark would ever have felt he should let Vettel past easily, regardless of their different fuel strategies.

Also, Vettel wasn't too healthy on fuel either, he had more than Mark at that point, but he was burning it off catching him up and passing him.

The stuff about miscomunication of the team engineers sounds like rubbish to me, mostly because that wasn't the original excuse, its just that sounds better now for the team. 👎
Even if true, its no reason for Vettel to have been so quick to turn right - Mark would have had to back out of the throttle well before that and not even tried to defend the position. This was never going to happen, as I said, Webber wasn't that much better off than Vettel and was always going to make it hard for him regardless of fuel differences.
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And more reason for the contact maybe? The plot thickens! :nervous:

Off Topic: Did Webber sign with RedBull for next year already? :sly:
 
Radracing
And more reason for the contact maybe? The plot thickens! :nervous:

Off Topic: Did Webber sign with RedBull for next year already? :sly:
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:rolleyes:
Why on earth are people trying to find a reason to blame Webber? The evidence before all the Red Bull PR puts little doubt to who is to blame.

Webber's only input into the incident was being a causing factor just by being there and forcing Vettel to attack on the inside by defending. But he is not to blame and never will be.
 
But they only work if someone is driving into you FROM BEHIND :D
 
Radracing
Oohhh! I that would show the signs of desperation for a driver that wanted to keep the lead but couldn't afford to go any faster since he is low on fuel. With the Mclarens closing in too. :scared:

Busted!

So the only alternative for a desparate man would be to takeout the the other guy?
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And, what, he used the Force to jerk Vettel's steering wheel into him?
 
Roo
Why are you so desperate to blame Webber, anyway?
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Wrong, I blame both of them. I said it from my first post and have repeated them over in my other post. Just having a bit of fun with the Webber fans I guess. :sly: Seems there are more Webber fans here than German fans. :sly:

Famine
And, what, he used the Force to jerk Vettel's steering wheel into him?
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No he used his telekinetic powers.
 
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Radracing
We all know the difference between this two videos. They both gave each other room and did not make contact. Even if Michael tried to put the sqease on Hamilton. The other two RB didn't so they messed up considering they are team mates. Were as Michael and Hamilton weren't but they still drove clean and mean.
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Hamilton chose the outside route, where Vettel chose the inside. Planting your car where Webber and Schumacher did gives the overtaking driver the disadvantage into the corner regardless of which route they take. I was just demonstrating to you that Schumacher did the exact same thing as Webber. The only difference is Hamilton didn't go down the inside, and he didn't turn into him whilst attempting to overtake.

Schumacher drove no more cleanly than Webber did, it was the exact same blocking manoevre.

Famine
And, what, he used the Force to jerk Vettel's steering wheel into him?
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:lol:

Nah, Vettel is stronger in the force than Webber. He's Michael Schumacher's apprentice (Proof: Here and Here). He used his mind tricks to get his team on his side, and also apparently on Radracing. You weak minded fool :p

Roo
Why are you so desperate to blame Webber, anyway?
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Good question 💡

PeterJB
He must love Vettel more than me.

If thats even possible
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I was thinking that :D
 
Radracing
Just having a bit of fun with the Webber fans I guess.
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I'm only a fan of one driver - and even when he does something wrong I say so - and he doesn't drive a Red Bull.
 
Radracing
Wrong, I blame both of them. I said it from my first post and have repeated them over in my other post. Just having a bit of fun with the Webber fans I guess. :sly: Seems there are more Webber fans here than German fans. :sly:
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I think you'll find people are just using their heads 💡.

I've never been a fan of Webber, I've always found him too aggressive in his style and a bit of a hypocrite at times (i.e. "stupid kids"...then pulls stupid moves himself).
I have been a fan of Vettel, at least in his Toro Rosso days (I'm actually still part of the fanclub on this forum). Ever since he went to Red Bull though and he's come under pressure and limelight, he's struggled to really prove himself in the same way. Absolutely brilliant racing from pole position, but when he has to overtake someone under pressure he seems to make mistakes.

If I was going to have bias, it would have been towards Vettel. But this incident just further confirms what I was worried about back at Australia 2009 - Vettel's toe-to-toe race craft can really suck sometimes.
 
He's known more for outright speed than his overtaking ability. Most of the top drivers have both, but we've seen little of the latter from Vettel, except at race starts.
 
Poopie!!

I haven't watched the race yet, and I didn't read the thread, but some of the race has been spoiled because of the title. I guess I'll have to see if the McLarens are really as good as they looked in practice and if Massa is still the master at this track...
 

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