Porsche 911 GT 1

[jamm]

Who is the original manufacturer? I'm well aware of the extent RUF takes the modifications, you don't have to resort to trying and insult my intelligence. The point I'm trying to make is RUF is not independant of Porsche. I don't care about all the technicalities and warranties, and whatnot. What it boils down to is, what originally was a Porsche has been modified into a RUF. You make my point with the GT40 example. Just cause you put GT40 parts on a replica doesn't make it a GT40 at heart. Just cause you put RUF parts (no matter the extent), it's still not a RUF at heart. It is a replica with GT40 parts, it is a Porsche with RUF parts.

i agree with this man.

 

[neilX]

This topic is so ridiculous I won't post in it nor offer my opinion that a RUF is a RUF not a Porsche and that a RUF is not a Porsche at heart, it is a RUF and that RUF is not a tuner of Porsches but an independant manufacturer of their own.

How can people think that because one Make and Model of a car *looks like* another Make and Model that they can be considered the same thing?
Ridiculous.

 

[jamm]

This topic is so ridiculous I won't post in it nor offer my opinion that a RUF is a RUF not a Porsche and that a RUF is not a Porsche at heart, it is a RUF and that RUF is not a tuner of Porsches but an independant manufacturer of their own.

How can people think that because one Make and Model of a car *looks like* another Make and Model that they can be considered the same thing?
Ridiculous.

it's not ridiculous to get the idea that they may be of the same manufacturer. the car looks identical to a porshe. the 3400s looks just like the boxter, the RGT looks just like the porshe they boost in Gone in 60 seconds at the beginning, whatever it's called, and the CTR looks the same as a 911 turbo. maybe they are different manufacturers, but a blatent rip off from porshe.

 

[neilX]

No, none of them are identical, but they do look very similar on the surface.
As you say, someone might get the idea that they may be of the same manufacturer if they didn't know any better.

 

[Onikaze]

Uh...just to point this little tidbit out.

I could have sworn that Ruf ordered parts from Porsche directly, and assembled them at their own site, and they do things like take the parts that would make a normal boxster, and put a base 911 engine into it, after applying their own stress welds and reinforcements and whatnot.

If you took all the parts to make a 911 to your house, tinkered with them, fiddled with them and built them to your specifications, it would not be a 911, you could call it whatever you wanted too...but if you built say 5 of them a month, you would be a manufacturer who used Porsche sourced parts.

 

[jamm]

Uh...just to point this little tidbit out.

I could have sworn that Ruf ordered parts from Porsche directly, and assembled them at their own site, and they do things like take the parts that would make a normal boxster, and put a base 911 engine into it, after applying their own stress welds and reinforcements and whatnot.

If you took all the parts to make a 911 to your house, tinkered with them, fiddled with them and built them to your specifications, it would not be a 911, you could call it whatever you wanted too...but if you built say 5 of them a month, you would be a manufacturer who used Porsche sourced parts.

now there's an idea!! imagine if everyone did that, ordered parts from porshe and assembled a few cars. ther'd be quite a few porshe look-a-likes on the road all going by different manufacturer names!

 

[jake11375]

This topic is so ridiculous I won't post in it nor offer my opinion that a RUF is a RUF not a Porsche and that a RUF is not a Porsche at heart, it is a RUF and that RUF is not a tuner of Porsches but an independant manufacturer of their own.

How can people think that because one Make and Model of a car *looks like* another Make and Model that they can be considered the same thing?
Ridiculous.

I'm sorry, I was going to be finished with this topic but I must comment on this perception.

Quote: "RUF is not a tuner of Porsches but an independant manufacturer of their own."

This is simply not true. It's true that RUF is a manufacturer, this is clear. And RUF may not be documented as a "Porsche tuner", but they are not independant. Their past, present, and future models have been and will be totally dependant upon Porsche. Not necessarily the chassis, engine, suspension etc but as far as the base model. They have been doing this for the past 30 years according to RUF website. Porsche is a big part of RUF's history and to completey separate Porsche from RUF would be frivolous and even detrimental to RUF. As stated in their history page, "The Porsche 911 has been the "Backbone" of RUF." RUF is a manufacturer of their own, but concerning the Porsche models they are not completely independant. This is the only point I am trying to make. I don't know how else to put this....

 

[neilX]

A separate manufacturer would have been a better choice of words there.

 

[MustangSVT]

I'd like to point out that this thread has 911 views.

 

[FoolKiller]

I am going to take a step back and point out to everyone arguing that the original poster just wanted to know if there was any cars like his beloved Porsches that he could drive since there wasn't a Porsche.

The answer would be: yes, the RUF looks very much like the Porsche. Drive it and be happy.

Everyone else needs to chill out. It's a matter of opinion that some people don't want to accept the technical name for something because in their opinion it is something else. Others are too much of a purest to accept it as anything other than its technical tagging.

In my opinion, it will do until they get Porsche.

 

[quati]

Yeah, now I got it!!
RUF is nothing more nothing less a little piece or part of the great Porsche!!
They work with almost the same patterns but with different names!!

HEY PEOPLE, IT'S JUST LIKE COCA-COLA & PEPSI!! ^^"
Simple than that!...

 

[neilX]

Ignoring what that last poster has said,

In my opinion, it will do until they get Porsche.

In my opinion, I don't need Porsche if they've got RUFs.
There are only so many cars that I'm actually going to drive, nowhere near the full list.

 

[vladimir]

This topic is so ridiculous I won't post in it nor offer my opinion that a RUF is a RUF not a Porsche and that a RUF is not a Porsche at heart, it is a RUF and that RUF is not a tuner of Porsches but an independant manufacturer of their own.

How can people think that because one Make and Model of a car *looks like* another Make and Model that they can be considered the same thing?
Ridiculous.

nobody ever said that rufs and porscheswere the same things. tuning the car already makes it a different thing.
but a disabled person with artificial legs is still a human being, and so is a ruf always a porsche at heart.

besides, ruf themselves say that on their website...

 

[Onikaze]

nobody ever said that rufs and porscheswere the same things. tuning the car already makes it a different thing.
but a disabled person with artificial legs is still a human being, and so is a ruf always a porsche at heart.

besides, ruf themselves say that on their website...

They aren't just tuning the porsches though, they actually make a point to have different tuned porsche models besides their line up of Rufs.

Ruf doesn't tune Porsches, Ruf takes Porsche parts and makes better Porsches from them.

 

[vladimir]

They aren't just tuning the porsches though, they actually make a point to have different tuned porsche models besides their line up of Rufs.

Ruf doesn't tune Porsches, Ruf takes Porsche parts and makes better Porsches from them.

A) i take a porsche, change brakes, some suspension parts, increase displacement, add a larger turbo, exchange bumpers and sideskirts, exchange seats, change some of the interior, add my own gearbox.
B) i take a porsche chassis, porsche body, some porsche interior parts, porsche engine, porsche suspension, built everything together, add my own turbo, brakes, seats, bumpers, gearbox and increase displacement.

whats the great difference? in both cases its legally a RUF, in both cases its based on a porsche, in both cases RUF has enhanced the porsche. the only great difference that i see is that the latter is cheaper.


alpina, ac schnitzer, hamann are all legally manufacturers, yet what they do is take already developed BMWs and enhance them.
carlsson, kleeman, brabus do the same with mercedes.

 

[Skant]

What is wrong with you people?

Look... RUF's situation is not unique. Shelby, Callaway, Lingenfelter, Saleen, and several other companies have a similar profile.

It goes like this... a racer fabricates a part that makes his car faster on the track. The other racers want the part, so he decides he can make some quick cash making them for the other racers, too. It eventually turns into a company selling aftermarket upgrades for the car he was racing.

Next, the company expands into a shop which also installs the parts they sell. And they start selling package deals to modify stock versions of the car into a named version of their tuner car.

The modifications they make tend to become more and more extensive, and eventually the cars are so heavily modified, that they are legally considered a different car. In many cases, they make a deal with the original manufacturer in order to save the cost of building and then taking apart a stock car... the manufacturer sends them the stock parts so that the company can assemble them along with their own unique parts to build the car directly.

Eventually, these companies start designing and building their own cars completely from scratch. The Saleen S7 is an example.


So... as you can see... it's actually a continuum from 'racer fabricating parts in his home garage' to 'company designing and building car from scratch'.


Soooooo... the reality is that it's not really incorrect to call RUF a manufacturer. And it's not really incorrect to call RUF a tuner. The RUF cars are part porsche and part original. They're obviously not entirely original. And they're obviously not entirely Porsches either. This company... like many others... exists in a space which BLURS THE LINES BETWEEN AFTERMARKET TUNER AND MANUFACTURER. They're somewhere inbetween.

Attempting to nail them or their cars down as one or the other is both academic and splitting hairs. You're looking at gray and trying to decide whether it's white or black.

Why does it matter anyway?

- Skant

 

[Smoke_U_24/7]

By you logic I can take an old 928, 944, etc, strip out every component and install the workings of a range of other cars, and as long as it still looks like a Porsche, then it still will be a Porsche.

Is a Noble really a Ford, after all most of the Switch gear is from Ford, as are the rear lights and the engine.

What about Alpina models, are they simply BMWs with the wrong badge. No, they are re-engineered to such a level that they are a car of totaly different characteristics that the model they were based on.

Another example is the Prodrive 550LM Road car, it starts life as a Ferrari 550, but the range of modifications to the car as so great that Ferrari themselves have said they will take legal action if any atempt to badge the final production cars as Ferrari's is made. They are Prodrive's not Ferraris.

Your argument is that a company is not a manufacturer if they base their model on something someone else has made, based on the argument only Daimler Crysler are a car manufacturer, as all cars that followed shared the same basic pattern. Your logic may suit how you wish to view the world, but you can not change the FACT that RUF models, Techart models, Gembella models, Alpinas, etc all carry seperate chassis numbers and are legally classed as seperatley manufactured cars.

First of all, Diamler Chrysler owns those car companies, which is owned by GM, DC doesn't make Dodge's, Buick's, Pontiac's etc, they don't manufacture the cars owned by those car companies. What a sorry exuse of an analogy.
And no I can't change fact, no matter how balderdash it may seem, and it seems that I can't change your mind. To me RUF is not a car manufacturer because of reason's I've posted before, so Let's just agree to disagree because of Skants view.....

What is wrong with you people?

Look... RUF's situation is not unique. Shelby, Callaway, Lingenfelter, Saleen, and several other companies have a similar profile.

It goes like this... a racer fabricates a part that makes his car faster on the track. The other racers want the part, so he decides he can make some quick cash making them for the other racers, too. It eventually turns into a company selling aftermarket upgrades for the car he was racing.

Next, the company expands into a shop which also installs the parts they sell. And they start selling package deals to modify stock versions of the car into a named version of their tuner car.

The modifications they make tend to become more and more extensive, and eventually the cars are so heavily modified, that they are legally considered a different car. In many cases, they make a deal with the original manufacturer in order to save the cost of building and then taking apart a stock car... the manufacturer sends them the stock parts so that the company can assemble them along with their own unique parts to build the car directly.

Eventually, these companies start designing and building their own cars completely from scratch. The Saleen S7 is an example.


So... as you can see... it's actually a continuum from 'racer fabricating parts in his home garage' to 'company designing and building car from scratch'.


Soooooo... the reality is that it's not really incorrect to call RUF a manufacturer. And it's not really incorrect to call RUF a tuner. The RUF cars are part porsche and part original. They're obviously not entirely original. And they're obviously not entirely Porsches either. This company... like many others... exists in a space which BLURS THE LINES BETWEEN AFTERMARKET TUNER AND MANUFACTURER. They're somewhere inbetween.

Attempting to nail them or their cars down as one or the other is both academic and splitting hairs. You're looking at gray and trying to decide whether it's white or black.

Why does it matter anyway?

- Skant

I think you made the best point, Skant. 👍

 

[Scaff]

First of all, Diamler Chrysler owns those car companies, which is owned by GM, DC doesn't make Dodge's, Buick's, Pontiac's etc, they don't manufacture the cars owned by those car companies. What a sorry exuse of an analogy.
And no I can't change fact, no matter how balderdash it may seem, and it seems that I can't change your mind. To me RUF is not a car manufacturer because of reason's I've posted before, so Let's just agree to disagree because of Skants view.....


I think you made the best point, Skant. 👍

You will notice if you read my posts that I have never stated that I agree with this definition, I have also stated that RUF do indeed tune Porsche's, but that they also make a range of cars that are legaly manufactured by them and are know as RUF's.

From my second post on this thread

While as I have said RUF will tune a Porsche is you pay them, the cars they make are not tuned Porsche's, but RUF's.

I have simply stated the legal position with regard to RUF models, I quite agree that the situation is very confusing, and the distinctions sometimes hard to see. However nothing I have stated with regard to RUF models being legaly RUF's and not Porsche's is opinion, its simply fact. As I have also said I have no problem with people agreeing or disagreeing with this; what I do have an issue with is people who incorrectly state as a fact that RUF are not a manufacturer.

I also agree that the distinction is largely lost on the general public, who see a Porsche shape and assume Porsche, with only a few seeing a Gembella, Techart or RUF.

However RUF is hardly the first (and I doubt will be the last) to blur these lines; on a personal level I have more of an issue with the policy of 'badge engineering' that some companies follow, such as the level of common componants shared by the Audi A3, Skoda Octavia and VW Golf. These cars share the same chassis, engine range, drivetrains and basic suspension componants. However as the bodyshells are very different they are perceved as different cars, from different manufacturers.

 

[deimos]

O.K, here is a simple way of imagining it from my point of view. They take all the RUF parts, assemble them. The car must be a RUF so far all of it is RUF. Now they add the bodyshell and chassis from a Porsche 911. Would that make it a Porsche tuned RUF? No obviously not. They've barely changed anything. Okay then. So if they do it the other way around would that make it a RUF Tuned Porsche?

IMO - No.

 

[jimihemmy]

First of all, Diamler Chrysler owns those car companies, which is owned by GM, DC doesn't make Dodge's, Buick's, Pontiac's etc, they don't manufacture the cars owned by those car companies.

Whoa there fella.....

Daimler Chrysler in NOT owned by GM..

GM owns Buick, Chevrolet, GMC, Oldsmobile (no longer used), Pontiac, Cadillac, Saab, Saturn, Hummer, GMC, Opel, Vauxhall, Holden, and pieces / alliances with Subaru, Izuzu, and Suzuki.....

Daimler Chrysler owns Mercedes-Benz, Dodge, Chrysler, Plymouth (no longer used), Jeep, Smart, Frieghtliner, Maybach, Sterling Trucks, Western Star trucks, 85% of Fuso (Mitsubishi Trucks and Buses) and is a strategic partner with Mitsubishi Motors (which is separate from Fuso)

 

[slipknot10wa123]

There are no Porsches, Ferraris or Lamborghinis in GT4.

And signatures are allowed a maximum of 6 lines. Yours is over double that.

RUFs run porsche chassis and engines, albeit tuned

Lamborghini is in if you consider the V16T a Diablo, it was basically the heir to the Coutach.