Possible replacements for The Cereal Box?

[Murcie_LP640]

I've had The Cereal Box for around about 2.5 years now (since I've been on my L's, before that my father owned it), and while it's been a good whip to have a bit of fun in, there are a couple of reasons why I want to switch to something new.

The main one though is that I want a manual transmission. The Cereal Box is a 1988 Nissan Skyline GXE with the 4-speed slushbox, and not only is it starting to slip a bit, I've now wanted a manual transmission since driving my sister's 1990 MX-5/Miata.

The other real reason is because I don't really have a need for a 4-seater sedan. There is one of my possibilities below that defies this reason though, simply because it's almost identical to The Cereal Box except with a manual transmission and a limited-slip diff.

So, here's my criteria:
- Manual transmission is a must
- Preferably RWD or AWD
- Under AU$5,000
- Preferably a coupe, but I won't completely rule out sedans

A few of the cars I was thinking of:
- ST162 Toyota Celica ST
- 1990s (DC2 I think) Honda Integra
- R31 Nissan Skyline Silhouette (5-speed manual and LSD)
- N14 CBU Nissan Pulsar SSS
- Lexus/Toyota Soarer SC400

 

[Tornado]

Can you find Miatas for under 5k in Australia? I know its a bit corny if your sister already has one, but Miatas do have very nice manual gearboxes.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

There are a couple of MX-5s on eBay that looked tempting, but they all have reserves which seem to be above what I'm willing to spend.

There was a 1990 example on CarSales that was $4500 with a hardtop (which my sister wants for hers as the roof on hers is starting to fall into disrepair and she said she'd be willing to pay to take it off my hands if I bought the MX-5) that would also be on my shortlist.

EDIT: I've read here that a few members have owned AW11 MR2s, are they any good or should I continue to look for an MX-5 if I want a convertible?

 

[Tornado]

Miatas are probably more "solid," as it were, but either one would probably be fine for anything you would put it through.

 

[Boz Mon]

Miata sounds like a good idea :-) Did the Lexus SC400 come with a manual transmission in Australia? I know in the states only the 300 did and it was super rare.

 

[homeforsummer]

EDIT: I've read here that a few members have owned AW11 MR2s, are they any good or should I continue to look for an MX-5 if I want a convertible?

Out in Australia you probably won't have the rust problems on AW11s that we do in the UK - the difficulty in finding a good one was one of the main reasons I gave up looking for an AW11 early on, despite the temptingly low prices.

If you like MR2s, how about an SW20? Less tactile than the AW11 but more comfort and space, pretty reliable, and decent pace even from the base models. And they look damn good too.

I'll definitely fly the MX5 flag though. You'd struggle to find something more fun for the money, and certainly something fun and as reliable as it is. Probably not recommended if you're going on for six foot or over, but more space than you'd think.

And pretty much the most pleasing to use manual gearbox ever put in a car.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

Nah I'm about 5'11" and my sister's MX-5 was quite snug.

I was looking at the SW20 MR2 as well, and I do agree they look great, although it's a bit of a struggle for $5k. Under that there's only AW11s.

Miata sounds like a good idea :-) Did the Lexus SC400 come with a manual transmission in Australia? I know in the states only the 300 did and it was super rare.

No that's the same here as well, only the SC300 and the 2.5L Soarer came with manual transmissions and even then they're quite rare. There's actually no Lexus' at all with a manual transmission under 5k.

 

[homeforsummer]

I was looking at the SW20 MR2 as well, and I do agree they look great, although it's a bit of a struggle for $5k. Under that there's only AW11s..

Really? Bit different over here. You can get AW11s very cheap, but most of it will have rotted away. You can pick up driving, working (if a little grubby) SW20s for as little as £700-800. You can get quite a nice one for £1500. And that price is the minimum for getting an AW11 in good condition. They're appreciating in value now, pretty much in modern classic territory.

 

[Punknoodle]

I'm going to be honest and speak from experience and tell you that you have to be extremely careful buying a "sporty" car in your price bracket - generally you're buying an older, high kays vehicle. You WILL have on going costs, trust me, and they can mount up and surprise you. (Sure, you get these on any vehicle, but you are buying a vehicle in which one of its primary uses is to be driven hard)

So, if you are buying one as a semi project, then you have to REALLY like the car or it won't be worth it. My tip, buy a reliable car that you can still have fun with and save your money till you can afford something newer and sporty, or until you find something you REALLY like and so won't mind spending money on later on down the track.

You could get this Corrola, it looks like its been looked after, has a 1.8, is manual - so you can still have SOME fun and should be fairly reliable...

Up to you, just trying to be the voice of reason

 

[Murcie_LP640]

I have been looking at some of the more, um..."dull" cars as well, however I have driven a few of the more "econobox" cars (Corollas and Civics, Mazda 2, base model Lancer and a Kia Cerato spring to mind) and I just don't like the way they drive at all. With that said, there is one car that I'm not entirely sure on how it drives (never driven one) but I love the look of: the E36 BMW 3-Series.

It does go against a couple of my earlier ideas as it's not really a sporty car but I do like the whole idea of a clean-looking luxury sedan as well. I found a 1992 320i that's right in price range, just needs a bit of a detail but other than that has had no problems at all and has been regularly serviced, and has all the bells and whistles (black leather interior, full electrics, cruise control and some new decent tyres as well).

 

[mafia_boy]

There are plenty of S13 Silvia K's for sale for $5k with manual's, usually packing the CA18DET motor. I saw an FTO GR for under $5k, and I also saw some nice VL's with manual's for around the $3k mark, all through carsales.com.au.

Have a look around, because it's harder than not to find a decent import for cheap around Australia.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I saw an FTO GR for under $5k...

Sucks the U.S didn't get these. Cool cars.

 

[Punknoodle]

Just don't forget that BMWs a fairly expensive if something goes wrong. I feel like the fun police with my comments, lol sorry, but just has to be said. I've got a GT-Four, and I paid quite a bit for it, and I'm still spending large on it, simply because of the age (ok, I probably don't need to spend SO much on it, but I'm a perfectionist and this is a car I've wanted for ages so I'm doing things right as I get to them) - for your price range you'll be looking in a similar age braket, perhaps older, and things wear out - its not just the every day things either. Just be sure to check the basics, such as:

Servicing (they might lie about this - check the oil, if its very black then it may not have been changed in a while, if its brand new then it may have only just been done to keep up appearances for the sale - also a bad sign)
Just the way the door opens and closes is a sign of how well the car is maintained (lubricated hinges etc)
When was the timing belt done?
Check the clutch for slippage / pedal feel
Check CVs by accelerating in a hard lock in both directions (obviously if its a FWD or 4WD)
Check coolant for colour (should be green with no grey or brown sludge)

There are a lot more too, if you aren't intending on getting the car checked out at a mechanic before you purchase it, but take ages on your test drive, and your ears are the main thing here, listen out for any weird noises.

Good luck and have fun

 

[Crash]

I think you'll be surprised by how sporty the E36 3 series can be, especially paired with the 5 speed manual. My friend had one of those and it was always a hoot to drive.

Be careful if you decide to get one. Don't buy one with high mileage and the more you know about the service history the betteer (as with any car); however when things start to break on those cars, and they will break, the parts are expensive.

 

[homeforsummer]

I'm going to be honest and speak from experience and tell you that you have to be extremely careful buying a "sporty" car in your price bracket - generally you're buying an older, high kays vehicle. You WILL have on going costs, trust me, and they can mount up and surprise you. (Sure, you get these on any vehicle, but you are buying a vehicle in which one of its primary uses is to be driven hard)

Good advice, but the cars he seems to be looking at are generally pretty solid.

I had to look at how much 5k Aussie dollars actually was in GBP, and it turns out about £3k is the answer. I spent a third of that sort of budget getting my MX5/Miata (I'll make the mathematics easy - about 1800 Australian dollars) and still walked away with a very good car. And this in a country that has to deal with rain, snow, salted roads and all sorts of other crap that attacks metal and paintwork.

I know the used car market over there may be quite different and that 5k might be a tiny amount of money when talking about used cars, and that spending any less would be akin to emptying your wallet down a drain, but you'd be surprised how tough something like a Miata can be.

I saw an FTO GR for under $5k

And ditto FTOs. You can again pick them up over here from about £1k ($1.7k AUS) for an admittedly tatty one, but double that price and you start talking about ones with history and that have been looked after well.

I do always get the impression when I read these sort of threads that although we pay through the nose in the UK for new cars, we're actually pretty lucky when it comes to getting a massive amount of car for the money in the used market...

 

[Punknoodle]

homeforsummer - Yeah, back in NZ you can get a tidy Japanese car for relatively low money, but here in Australia, second hand Japanese cars are fairly expensive (in comparison) and so for this money you do have to be careful.

Especially because here the heat attacks cars like crazy (rubber perishes, engine temperatures rise etc) well in Queensland anyway, and well I don't know what its like in SA but in Queensland you don't have regular warrant of fitness checks on vehicles, just one when the vehicle is sold (which is crap, its pretty easy for someone to get a pass from a dodgy mechanic just to move the car on) so some people, especially those with older cars that they might not care about, just don't maintain their vehicles! This is why you must be careful here.

 

[Paulie]

How can you not consider the Commodore? The Buick V6 is fairly punchy, and the T5 is a nice gearbox. The cars are pretty reliable, and even IF something goes wrong, they're very cheap to repair. Add in the potential for personalisation, and before I hear complaints about the commonality, I would place bets that there are more Silvias running around then there are decent manual V6 Commodores. (Oh, and S Packs typically come standard with LSD) By decent I mean ones modified with taste and function, not bling-tastic rims and "fully sik" sub-woofers. Then there's also the........Holden Calibra! Not sure what price range AWD models are though. But hey, they're popular in Europe. I think you can't go wrong with that R31 Silhouette, but are they really that cheap or easy to find? Of course, I suppose you've got time to look, and I would recommend waiting for the right car to show up rather than pouncing on the first opportunity you get with something that's only so-so.

Now am I the only one that finds it ironic 3/5 cars on your list don't meet your criteria?

 

[homeforsummer]

Then there's also the........Holden Calibra! Not sure what price range AWD models are though. But hey, they're popular in Europe.

I wouldn't recommend a Calibra to anyone I actually liked. They may appear to offer decent value for money and they don't look too bad, but nobody of sound mind should actually spend money on one.

 

[Paulie]

I wouldn't recommend a Calibra to anyone I actually liked. They may appear to offer decent value for money and they don't look too bad, but nobody of sound mind should actually spend money on one.

Unreliable? Un-sporting? What's the story here? I'm going to guess un-reliable, the older Ecotec engines aren't that great, the new ones seem much improved.

 

[mafia_boy]

I'm actually more surprised that you just don't slap a manual box in that R31 Murcie and then go the tried and tested route that so many RB30's have gone down in VL's!! I'm sure you would find a gearbox (even if it's from a VL!), with flywheel & clutch installed for less than $1k, fitted by a proper mechanic, so a lot cheaper if you have mechanical knowledge.

Also, you could check out R31 House from Japan, they are the kings when it comes to modified R31 Skylines. Here's some pics for example.

Ignore the fact they are all 2 doors.


*added bit* HFS, I would've said the 4x4 turbo version is actually quite good, having been in a couple. If it was the N/A versions then I would agree with you wholeheartedly!! 👍

 

[Paulie]

I would have to back Mafs there, a manual conversion on your current R31 would be pretty cheap, although other than that #31 Skyline, I don't like the style of the others he posted pics of.

 

[homeforsummer]

Unreliable? Un-sporting? What's the story here? I'm going to guess un-reliable, the older Ecotec engines aren't that great, the new ones seem much improved.

Just not particularly fun. They based the thing on the Opel/Vauxhall Cavalier, but didn't really bother changing the suspension to something more suitable for a sporting coupe. So it has exactly the same numb steering and poor body control as the Cavalier, just wrapped in a nicer body.

And yeah, it isn't that reliable either, in common with every Vauxhall for the last thirty-odd years.

It didn't help that by the mid nineties the coupe market was absolutely choc-full of very good cars which made the Calibra look even worse...

*added bit* HFS, I would've said the 4x4 turbo version is actually quite good, having been in a couple. If it was the N/A versions then I would agree with you wholeheartedly!! 👍

It's all relative The turbo one is certainly damn quick, but "good" is pushing it a little... ditto the V6 one they did.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

I would place bets that there are more Silvias running around then there are decent manual V6 Commodores.

I was never looking at Silvias to begin with.

I think you can't go wrong with that R31 Silhouette, but are they really that cheap or easy to find?

Certainly easier than an unmolested Commodore...and the GTS1 was $5,000. 5-speed, LSD, extractors, factory bodykit and 16" wheels.

Now am I the only one that finds it ironic 3/5 cars on your list don't meet your criteria?

Yes, they're not a very good representation I will admit. The SC400's auto, the Celica, SSS and Integra are all front-wheel-drive. I have changed that list since some more searching and I've narrowed it down to 3 that I really like:

- E36 320i
- Subaru Liberty RX AWD, and
- the GTS1 Silhouette.

As stated before I have never driven a 3-Series, or a BMW at all for that matter. As much as I know parts for German luxury cars are expensive, I have read quite a few owner reviews and have done thorough checks on this particular one, and it only needs a good detail.

The Subaru on the other hand is a tempting choice simply because it's a Subaru. We used to have a 2005 Impreza WRX which was overall brilliant, apart from insurance (which with the softer, more luxurious Liberty is lowered) and tyres as we had aftermarket wheels.

And then there's the Silhou, which is the car that I would be most used to, but also improved, however I wouldn't mind a change from the R31.

 

[Crash]

What year of the Subaru Liberty are you looking at? Those cars seem to be quite reliable overall, and not that bad, but people always complain that they are way underpowered.

 

[mafia_boy]

I would have to back Mafs there, a manual conversion on your current R31 would be pretty cheap, although other than that #31 Skyline, I don't like the style of the others he posted pics of.

That's because your bogan Commodore sense has clouded your judgement. Hang on I'll get some pics of VL's if you wished.

 

[Turbo Lag]

What year of the Subaru Liberty are you looking at? Those cars seem to be quite reliable overall, and not that bad, but people always complain that they are way underpowered.

I can only assume Gen III, however 5 grand is pretty much the lowest they'll go here.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

The late 90's 2nd Gens are the ones that mainly come up.

 

[Casio]

How can you not consider the Commodore?

Cause he wants a good car that's not too big and won't make him look like a bogan.

 

[Paulie]

Certainly easier than an unmolested Commodore...and the GTS1 was $5,000. 5-speed, LSD, extractors, factory bodykit and 16" wheels.

Mmm, no they're not.
Edit: For example the Trading Post only has one listing for the Skyline in your state, but it's an automatic. There are plenty of Commodores though, like this VS S Pack.

That's because your bogan Commodore sense has clouded your judgement. Hang on I'll get some pics of VL's if you wished.

Yeah, sure, right.

Cause he wants a good car that's not too big and won't make him look like a bogan.

Coming from someone who has no taste in cars what so ever, OK. Plus a VN-VR will handle better than that R31.

 

[mafia_boy]

As I've driven both cars (R31 & VR) I'll disagree. The VR is a bucket of 🤬 that's overfull compared to the R31!! The only good side about the VR is that you could supercharge that buick motor and get it to do 10's down the 1/4. You can find it on youtube, I'm that brain dead today that I can't even find it.