Power Pack = sripted AI again

[wlashack]

I am not a hater so writing these lines hurts me inside. But I must say it loud: What I never liked on GT7 was its really unfortunately (to say it nicely) scripted AI. Cars do not race on a given difficulty level, they behave on a scripted basis like "in the middle of the race you all start runningh on 95% only" or "if you are overtaken, you stop racing, as if you were offended that someone passed you" etc. I never understood how anyone came up with this sick idea to "improve" the racing atmosphere.
I hoped that with "new AI" presented in Power Pack these days are over but I was wrong. On the contrary, several new scenarios have been added, such as "three cars will overtake you immediately after the race start, regardless of how well you started". And it really, really hurts. There are no races again, there a pre-scripted scenarios. Therefore I do not compete, I watch what PD thinks will be fun or challenging. But it is none of these. It has nothing to do with racing principles and skills.
In my eyes this ruins all the effort they put into the whole content which is huge and perfectly put together with a deep sense for interesting racing possibilities. After I've done a few races, I've realized that this really doesn't bother me at all. And it doesn't matter if I win or lose. After a race, I never feel like a winner or a loser, but like "WTF was that?". I wish I was wrong and maybe you have a totally different experience.

 

[CTznOfTime]

All video games are scripted.
I understand the feeling, you want a satisfying racing experience, especially since racing online is also a cf...

In this day and age, one would think that AI should know how to give you a fair run for your money...


But The truth is : AI development and script is still at its enfancy.
pD and Kaz are truly doing their earnest best to give you what you want, but I think it is not as easy as we think.

Designing and giving us all a fair AI that can be challenging for everyone between 7 and 77 is much more harder than you think....


If you design an AI for the top 1% best driver player, which they totally can, then no doubt 100% of us will suffer and just give up.

How do you strike the right balance?... How can the Ai know Who they are dealing with, which type of driver is racing the Ai ?

How can Sophy know ?
So for now, and as a compromise until PD and Kaz can update Sophy accordingly with many more machine learning iterations, this is the "best" you will get...


It will take time until PD and Kaz figure out how we can tell how Soph should race against each one of us ... So please be patience...

Scripting racing Ai aint easy.

Instead of having a rabbit, now we have
A Rabbit Ai Or Ai on a leash

You wouldn't be able to compete against a pure, unrestrained AI Sophy...
We already saw her and it was scary .. Kaz tone her down.
The first Sophy 3.0 apparently was already a bit too much for some of us...
So with this update 1.66, we got Sophy 3.1, a tad softer


I unfortunately didn't have a taste of Sophy 3.0, so I can't comment for sure
I still haven't started my peepee, hopefully this weekend or next week.. before Christmas I will try Sophy 3.1

That's my take on this.

 

[wlashack]

I do not talk about scripting. I talk about lets say overscripting.
AI in GT7 Power Pack is very good itself. But PD tries to put an "additoonal layer of commands" to control its behavior to make races "even better" but it works the opposite way — it ruins racing.
Old GT7 AI would race much better if it runs the whole race with the skill it has. But PD does not allow it, it commands the AI cars to go slower after you overtake them and overall in the second half of the race etc. etc. Nonsense, no one is happy with that because this is not racing. No one wants to lose nor win this way. And the same continues with Sophy 3.

 

[CTznOfTime]

I do not talk about scripting. I talk about lets say overscripting.
AI in GT7 Power Pack is very good itself. But PD tries to put an "additoonal layer of commands" to control its behavior to make races "even better" but it works the opposite way — it ruins racing.
Old GT7 AI would race much better if it runs the whole race with the skill it has. But PD does not allow it, it commands the AI cars to go slower after you overtake them and overall in the second half of the race etc. etc. Nonsense, no one is happy with that because this is not racing. No one wants to lose nor win this way. And the same continues with Sophy 3.

Tbh
I have noticed thay behavior in the gt script with the normal computer racer, non Sophy in the regular World Circuit races .. even since GT5, GT6 and GT Sport...

As soon as you pass the leader, they concede....
Only on a few occasions they would keep the challenge, but that's not often ...

It must be some sort of PD philosophy or design choice....
But again we don't know their requirements, they don't design only for you and I, but a wider audience.... That's my guess....

Maybe this should be a question for Jordan to ask Kaz, to Understand their design philosophy
How do they balance... How to tailor going forward... Some sort of Ai scale maybe

 

[suomi1]

Tbh
I have noticed thay behavior in the gt script with the normal computer racer, non Sophy in the regular World Circuit races .. even since GT5, GT6 and GT Sport...

GT5 is to my knowledge the only Gran Turismo game without any enforced rubberbanding.

 

[CTznOfTime]

GT5 is to my knowledge the only Gran Turismo game without any enforced rubebrbanding.

Ouai ça fait longtemps
It's been a long time I haven't played GT5, over 12 years maybe
My memory might be a bit rusty there.... You might be right... But the point is: I haven't as challenged as I am now with Sophy.

 

[wlashack]

But it is not about having challenging opponent only. It is important how this opponent behaves to be challenging. If he is challenging in a natural way or not.
In Power Pack I raced Tsukuba. The car in front of me had a 5 second lead. But it couldn't have because I did all the laps in top qualifying times. And during the last two laps I caught up to that car. Without me driving even faster or the car making any mistakes. It was just ridiculously fast for a while and then ridiculously slow again. That's what I'm talking about, that's just not what I like about that behavior. And it is not about Sophy, it is about something "above" Sophy that tells do this now and do that now. There is no consistency in how cars behave.

On Tokyo Expressway there is a hairpin where you must full brake up to the apex. I go first, brake as late as possible, but before I get to apex, five cars overtake me. It is simply not possible. You cannot approach the hairpin faster without leaving the track completely. But they did. And if you see this, you do not want to race on because this is nonsense. You were not beaten, you were cheated.

Good old ACC has AI that behaves very naturally. At least in terms of consistent driving. You set the level and cars go that fast the whole race. Simple and easy because no additional magic is used here.