PP - Performance Point Unfair! Cars list

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This data is utterly useless. OP is assuming all cars have identical strengths/weaknesses, which is never the case unless running a spec series, in which case PP are irrelevant.
 
Cars with the same PP ratings aren't going to perform exactly the same any more than cars with the same horsepower and weight numbers are. There are different variables. For example, a stock Veyron has a higher PP rating than an Audi R18. That doesn't mean that the Veyron is going to beat the R18 on every track, in fact most tracks it will lose because of the extra weight and lack of grip. It might win on Special Stage Route X or Route 7, but on the Nurburgring or Spa, the R18 will most likely win. That doesn't mean the PP rating system is "Unfair" because it doesn't always beat a lower PP rated car.
 
Why don't you test the GT3, GT300 and GT500 cars at their stock PP, stock tyres and no SRF and see how they compare?

Much more useful.

At least 2 different types of track too.
 
Errr.... no ****... you compare race cars and road cars in a track with lots of corners? Duh... You already knew from GT5 that the Alfa 155/Calibra were beats.

The KTM X-Bow loses in every track that has a bit of straight.

The Rocket I agree its so damn fast, its usually banned in a lot of lobbies.

In a latter post in this thread you are asking why is the Bugatti Veyron slower in Cape Ring south compared to other cars? Well because the Veyron is awful in corner perhaps? ;) Each car has different qualities, put the Veyron in SSRX or La Sarthe and it becomes good becuase its a straightline car.

Also please try the Mazda RX500 at 550pp. My bet is that it's faster than all those cars :D

...

Anyway you can not expect a system to give all cars with the same PP (any PP!) exact results in every single track, this is 100% IMPOSSIBLE :)
 
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PP is useless. One of the things I do in any GT is test the cars against each other. I just love driving all the cars and test them and end up with a pretty big database of cars in specific PP classes. And both in GT5 and GT6 there is always BIG margins between the fastest and slowest cars even with the same PP. PP is useless and we always have to tests our league event cars to death to find the rabbits and ban certain cars and have different limits for different cars in the event to make them equal. The current one we are testing we have cars that range from 575PP to 618PP just to get them all to do roughly the same lap times.
 
have Done show PP550 cars list:

gt6___cape_ring_south___time_lap_550pp_challenge_by_gt4tube-d71rdtv.jpg

Example: Multiplayer Racing + PP Failure unfair.

Alfa Romeo DTM And Bmw M5 road car, is same time lap you think? that is a crap!.
and Nissan GT-R terrible loser ever! I'm fan GT-R! so sad...
 
What did you do to that poor Aston!

Where is the Burr Walnut fascia and dashboard?
The Connolly leather upholstery with matching Wilton pure wool carpets...
The Blaupunkt stereo system...

All that Tree and Cow and Sheep adds downforce.

Don't tell me you got rid of the pop up Machine guns and the bullet proof glass too!
 
Look at the power and weight of your GTR compared to the two at the top of the board has just one HP more than the Alfa but is 550kg heavier, meaning much worse acceleration
61 hp less than the BMW and still heavier by 240kg

With those power to weight ratios I would expect the GTR to be slower than the other 2

Also note that when you drop the pp on many of the cars and compare them to other cars when the PP has been raised you may see the car that was once weaker be the stronger of the 2.

But then again any tests done with SRF on are not really valid and some cars do require some fine tuning to get fast laps especially so if you reduce the power and/or increase the weight
 
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Honestly, so long as you're using racing softs on all cars (as opposed to tires that are appropriate for the car in question) and skid recovery force, the list is irrelevant. Another big thing influencing that list is the tuning of the cars, as im assuming you're tuning or detuning to 550 pp exactly. Doing differet things to the car will affect the car differently. For example you will gain tons of pp by doing a weight reduction, but in some circumstances you'd be far better off with more power.
 
I had a nice list of Street Cars on SH tires like this for GT5.
Mine was more for comparison's sake as I didn't bother tuning to a certain PP of each car. I did a set "tune" on each car turning them into Track Racers and set times around Laguna Seca, noting the PP level of each. It gave me an idea of which cars actually raced to their PP level and which did not.

The issue I faced was controlling the variability. The cars all had the same stuff, but I got progressively better around Laguna Seca as time wore on, so cars at the beginning of the test were a good second faster than I'd even initially tested. It all ended up being a bunch of bunk and probably a waste of time, but it was good fun.
 
Gturbo5
No i tried Skid Recovery force OFF about +1 sec Still GT-R lose.........
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My brother and I were tuning for Motegi speedway several nights ago, normally we are very close on lap times on this track but he was beating me by around 1/2 second which is a huge margin on a short oval in a fast car. I kept trying different things but I could not really get any closer.

Turns out he was using SRF and I wasn't so just out of curiosity I turned it on and he turned it off the see if the results would flip. To our surprise my lap time was unchanged and his became almost non existent. Seems that since I tuned my car without using SRF turning it on did not make much difference or at least not in this case. He had tuned his with SRF on and it became undrivable without it, the rear would just slide out in every corner and he would hit the wall. Of course after a few laps he managed to dial in it without the SRF and was turning laps in the same range as what i was.

So it would appear that you can drive a much looser car with SRF on than without it, So a very tail happy car can be faster for sure. A 4wd car that likes to understeer may not benefit near as much and really you should never use this when tuning, racing or testing as all is does is skew the results
 
HBR-Roadhog
My brother and I were tuning for Motegi speedway several nights ago, normally we are very close on lap times on this track but he was beating me by around 1/2 second which is a huge margin on a short oval in a fast car. I kept trying different things but I could not really get any closer.

Turns out he was using SRF and I wasn't so just out of curiosity I turned it on and he turned it off the see if the results would flip. To our surprise my lap time was unchanged and his became almost non existent. Seems that since I tuned my car without using SRF turning it on did not make much difference or at least not in this case. He had tuned his with SRF on and it became undrivable without it, the rear would just slide out in every corner and he would hit the wall. Of course after a few laps he managed to dial in it without the SRF and was turning laps in the same range as what i was.

So it would appear that you can drive a much looser car with SRF on than without it, So a very tail happy car can be faster for sure. A 4wd car that likes to understeer may not benefit near as much and really you should never use this when tuning, racing or testing as all is does is skew the results
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OP, this is the biggest problem with you're M5 vs GTR issue. M5 benefits hugely being rwd and quite tail happy. GTR not nearly as much because it isn't prone to wheel spin without srf.
 
HBR-Roadhog
My brother and I were tuning for Motegi speedway several nights ago, normally we are very close on lap times on this track but he was beating me by around 1/2 second which is a huge margin on a short oval in a fast car. I kept trying different things but I could not really get any closer.

Turns out he was using SRF and I wasn't so just out of curiosity I turned it on and he turned it off the see if the results would flip. To our surprise my lap time was unchanged and his became almost non existent. Seems that since I tuned my car without using SRF turning it on did not make much difference or at least not in this case. He had tuned his with SRF on and it became undrivable without it, the rear would just slide out in every corner and he would hit the wall. Of course after a few laps he managed to dial in it without the SRF and was turning laps in the same range as what i was.

So it would appear that you can drive a much looser car with SRF on than without it, So a very tail happy car can be faster for sure. A 4wd car that likes to understeer may not benefit near as much and really you should never use this when tuning, racing or testing as all is does is skew the results
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From what I've seen SRF is more effective the more you push it. I use the Super License Test S-4 as an example. SRF allows you to drive the Aventador like the Dukes of Hazzard on dirt. I spent more time sideways than straight in that car and the more I pushed, the quicker my times got. SRF is locked ON.
Those maneuvers aren't at all possible for me with SRF off.

If I drive the Aventador like a sane man, SRF ON or OFF nets very little difference.
 
I'm not sure I understand what this is supposed to indicate. Just out of curiosity, I decided to give the FTO STC a quick go around this track. 411bhp (stock), minimal setup changes, S3 tyres, no SRF (or any other aid except ABS 1) and did a 1'08.9 on the 3rd lap.

I would drop driving with SRF for starters since it masks the cars actual characteristics and gives a false positive about how fast you can drive.
 
I am not very good on that track, haven't driven it much as of yet but I did try 3 cars out there just out of curiosity and the fastest of the 3 was a GT-R ;) The GT3 GT-R was the slowest of the 3 cars, The S2000 LM RC was in the middle about 2 seconds faster and the Special Midnight Purple GT-R was the fastest by about 1 second over the S2000 which surprised me but then again I did drive the S2000 first and as I said do not know the track that well.

That purple GT-R runs pretty good though and with a few tweaks to the suspension and some weight reduction handles nice too

All driven without SRF of course
 
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550pp is lower powered sports car domain
nsx, m3, m5, rx-8...

These are not gt-r's competition. r8, stradale and sls are. All those cars at that pp level are underpowered for theirs weight and large chassis. They need at least 650pp for them to show their strenght. Racers, offcourse, enter the show at that stage as well, but they can be expunged for online games, so that's not that big of a problem.
 
.......................

first at 1.08.600
Last at 1.13.500

why +5 sec much unfair race PP in multiplayer was it... I want understood to same PP and fair race. WTH!

LOOK i did tested on Forza 4 S700 leaderboard list:
Link: http://fav.me/d63y6b5

that about +1 sec so near time lap FAIR RACE IN MULTIPLAYER FUN!!!!!!!


Forza best Class system.
GT bad PP system.

-.-
 
Use same track, same settings, same cars as in your first comparison, just put it to 700pp. Then post results.
 
I did some laps with the Mazda RX500.

550PP - 443HP (437 BHP) - 857 KG (edit: tried 2nd test with less power and less weight and results were better)

1:06.650 (not perfect lap, can still be improved)

20140112_150606.jpg
 
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Gturbo5
.......................

first at 1.08.600
Last at 1.13.500

why +5 sec much unfair race PP in multiplayer was it... I want understood to same PP and fair race. WTH!

LOOK i did tested on Forza 4 S700 leaderboard list:
Link: http://fav.me/d63y6b5

that about +1 sec so near time lap FAIR RACE IN MULTIPLAYER FUN!!!!!!!


Forza best Class system.
GT bad PP system.

-.-
Click to expand...

You have to be kidding. The Forza system is not even close to even across the cars there are huge differences in the same class especially the higher classes like S class. One S class car can be running tons of power of street tires and another using racing tires with less power and lots of DF. The result is on a grip track the one with low power and race tires will win big then go to another track that has some straights and the opposite will be true. Some cars in Forza can't be built to be competitive in any class due to the way they over charge for adjustable gears in them where others cars they allow you to add the adjustable trans for free or even give you a few PI reduction for making your car better. Hondas for example compared to Pontiacs.

You should also know that the track you used in Forza for your comparison is a shorter track with more consistent lap times across the board. This also makes a difference in your results.

For example on Motegi Speedway you may get 20 cars that are within 1 second on their best lap but 1 second is a very large amount of time on a short track. Those same cars may be 30 or more seconds apart on a track like Nurburgring.

I have tuned almost every car in Forza 2, 3 and 4 and I can tell you without a doubt the class system there is far from level. On a track like Nurburgring there will be minutes separating some cars from others in the same class
 
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