Problem with acceleration around corners

[Deja vu]

Thats what I meant. No need to correct me as I'm fully aware of what the LSD does and how to tune it. I'm just not the best at explaining things.

I'm sure you understand it, but he was explaining to the OP, no need to flare up.

 

[Street Racer]

I'm so confused.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

I'm sure you understand it, but he was explaining to the OP, no need to flare up.

No, he directly quoted me which means he was talking to me and saying I was wrong with my explanation. Like I said, maybe not the best description of the LSD, but it is not wrong. Pardon me for trying to help. Guess I'll just leave it to the self proclaimed "experts" from now on.

 

[Motor City Hami]

@everybody who is giving misguided information about the LSD, let me set the record straight. I have spent more time testing the LSD in Gran Turismo than anyone. It has worked very similarly since GT3. This IS how the LSD works in GT5, period.

LSD Accel – This setting has one purpose, to manage inside and outside wheel spin. If the inside wheel spins first, raise this setting. If the outside wheel spins first, lower this setting. Most often the tire in need of help will turn red upon throttle application from the corner apex. Sometimes, a car will get loose on you, but neither tire turns red. Put two or three levels harder tires on the car and mash the throttle in the slow, 2nd gear corners and you should be able to find which tire turns red first. Keep adjusting until both drive tires spin at the same time and this setting will be optimized. On a few cars, you will find a situation where one click higher will make the outside tire turn just a little red and one click lower will make the inside tire a little red. On these rare cars, you cannot fully optimize this setting and will need to choose one.

LSD Decel – This setting has one purpose, to manage stability under braking, turn-in and when coasting. If your car is loose (oversteer) in these situations, raise this setting. If your car has understeer during these conditions, lower this setting. Nearly all of my under 550PP street car tunes have settings between 5 and 7. On pure race cars like LMP cars, JGTC, FGT, F1, 2J, etc., I run much higher decel settings.

LSD Initial Torque – This setting determines how much power is needed to activate the diff – to make it lock. What this means in GT5 is that a higher number produces more understeer and a lower number produces more oversteer. It is that simple. Since the 2.09 update this characteristic is more pronounced and even more noticeable from apex to exit.

The LSD does not add or subtract acceleration. The LSD cannot send more or less power to the drive train. The LSD can only distribute the given amount of power to each of the drive wheels. I see many on this site confuse the LSD with slipper clutches. This must come from R/C off road racing where slipper clutches are popular. In R/C racing a sipper clutch is added as a bolt on to the drive train and will actually slip as power is applied and grip in the higher revs to keep the rear wheels from spinning. There is still an LSD in those gear boxes and they are not set up to slip. They are set up to do the only job of the LSD, to distribute power from side to side under acceleration and braking. If you set them up to slip, they melt. Same goes for real world, if your LSD slips, it melts. Heat is the #1 enemy of an LSD. This is why we have traction control in the real world and in GT5. Traction control limits power through the drive train to the wheels, not the LSD.

 

[Adrenaline]

The LSD does not add or subtract acceleration.

LSD Initial Torque – This setting determines how much power is needed to activate the diff – to make it lock.

But we all know that a locked rear end accelerates faster than an open Diff.
So by common logic, the sooner an LSD 'locks' (which is how you define the 'Initial' setting) the better your acceleration will be... Correct?

Also adding or removing understeer will greatly effect your ability to accelerate out of a corner. So while I understand what you're trying to say, I feel it's highly misleading to the common reader/tuner.

In my opinion, you want the Initial Setting to be as high as possible, without experiencing understeer. Would you agree with this statement in it's simplest form?

 

[Motor City Hami]

But we all know that a locked rear end accelerates faster than an open Diff.
So by common logic, the sooner an LSD 'locks' (which is how you define the 'Initial' setting) the better your acceleration will be... Correct?

Also adding or removing understeer will greatly effect your ability to accelerate out of a corner. So while I understand what you're trying to say, I feel it's highly misleading to the common reader/tuner.

In my opinion, you want the Initial Setting to be as high as possible, without experiencing understeer. Would you agree with this statement in it's simplest form?

100% disagree with you and I think for the first time ever. An open diff does not accelerate more slowly. It defys the laws of physics to say that an open diff accelerates any differently than the most locked up diff. Place a car in a drag race in a straight line with equal grip on both sides of the tarmac. It doesn't matter if you have an open diff or a welded solid straight axle, the power to the wheels is the same, therefore the acceleration WILL be the same. The only function of the Limited Slip Differential is to control one wheel spinning over the other.

You are using incorrect termonology.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Here we go again, lol.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Here we go again, lol.

Not really. This is the one area of tuning that I really understand, both in the real world and in this game. If people want to disagree, then let's see some tests... concrete tests... with video. I am so sure of my method of LSD tuning that maybe I need to make a tuning video to accompany my words above.

 

[Adrenaline]

100% disagree with you and I think for the first time ever. An open diff does not accelerate more slowly. It defys the laws of physics to say that an open diff accelerates any differently than the most locked up diff. Place a car in a drag race in a straight line with equal grip on both sides of the tarmac. It doesn't matter if you have an open diff or a welded solid straight axle, the power to the wheels is the same, therefore the acceleration WILL be the same. The only function of the Limited Slip Differential is to control one wheel spinning over the other.

You are using incorrect termonology.

Even if I were to agree with the above, it still doesn't disprove the second statement I made. If your standpoint is that Locked Diffs have zero advantage to open diffs in drag racing then sobeit. But you've already conceded that Initial Sensativity will effect the cars under or oversteer tendencies. Thus we can conclude, that a properly tuned LSD will allow you to successfully accelerate earlier(not faster) than a poorly tuned one, simply due to the cars ability to accelerate without pushing wide on corner exit.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Even if I were to agree with the above, it still doesn't disprove the second statement I made. If your standpoint is that Locked Diffs have zero advantage to open diffs in drag racing then sobeit. But you've already conceded that Initial Sensativity will effect the cars under or oversteer tendencies. Thus we can conclude, that a properly tuned LSD will allow you to successfully accelerate earlier(not faster) than a poorly tuned one, simply due to the cars ability to accelerate without pushing wide on corner exit.

Wrong. Twisting my words. A LSD has zero advantage over an open diff in all situations where equal traction is easily maintained (drag racing, low powered cars, long sweeping corners). The LSDs advantage is in controlling side to side grip differences. We are very close on our usage of the initial torque setting (understeer vs. oversteer), but we differ quite substantially on the description of the setting. The way you describe it makes it sound like lower settings reduce power to the wheels. This is what I am taking issue with. There is only power loss if one wheel slips. If both drive wheels maintain the same level of grip then all power is being used, and no power lost.

The reason this wording is so important is that you are recommending for people to use the highest initial torque settings possible in order to maintain the most amount of power to the wheels. I actually tune the opposite, looking for the lowest initial torque number so that the diff will lock and unlock more quickly which gives me more differentiation between on power and off power. Or in other words, really aggressive turn in and mid corner rotation (more open) and a locked diff (only locked just enough to get the job done) on power through exit. If my diff is locking just enough to get the job done and no wheels slip, then how is there slower acceleration? Where is the power loss? There isn't any. If locked enough to keep slip under control happens at 12, then why would 30 or 40 be any better. I contend that it is not better.

 

[lldantell]

In my opinion, you want the Initial Setting to be as high as possible, without experiencing understeer.

This gonna make the throttle too touchy.unless you make the rear firm or you gonna make the car still undriveable.

@everybody who is giving misguided information about the LSD, let me set the record straight. I have spent more time testing the LSD in Gran Turismo than anyone. It has worked very similarly since GT3. This IS how the LSD works in GT5, period.

LSD Accel – This setting has one purpose, to manage inside and outside wheel spin. If the inside wheel spins first, raise this setting. If the outside wheel spins first, lower this setting. Most often the tire in need of help will turn red upon throttle application from the corner apex. Sometimes, a car will get loose on you, but neither tire turns red. Put two or three levels harder tires on the car and mash the throttle in the slow, 2nd gear corners and you should be able to find which tire turns red first. Keep adjusting until both drive tires spin at the same time and this setting will be optimized. On a few cars, you will find a situation where one click higher will make the outside tire turn just a little red and one click lower will make the inside tire a little red. On these rare cars, you cannot fully optimize this setting and will need to choose one.

LSD Decel – This setting has one purpose, to manage stability under braking, turn-in and when coasting. If your car is loose (oversteer) in these situations, raise this setting. If your car has understeer during these conditions, lower this setting. Nearly all of my under 550PP street car tunes have settings between 5 and 7. On pure race cars like LMP cars, JGTC, FGT, F1, 2J, etc., I run much higher decel settings.

LSD Initial Torque – This setting determines how much power is needed to activate the diff – to make it lock. What this means in GT5 is that a higher number produces more understeer and a lower number produces more oversteer. It is that simple. Since the 2.09 update this characteristic is more pronounced and even more noticeable from apex to exit.

The LSD does not add or subtract acceleration. The LSD cannot send more or less power to the drive train. The LSD can only distribute the given amount of power to each of the drive wheels. I see many on this site confuse the LSD with slipper clutches. This must come from R/C off road racing where slipper clutches are popular. In R/C racing a sipper clutch is added as a bolt on to the drive train and will actually slip as power is applied and grip in the higher revs to keep the rear wheels from spinning. There is still an LSD in those gear boxes and they are not set up to slip. They are set up to do the only job of the LSD, to distribute power from side to side under acceleration and braking. If you set them up to slip, they melt. Same goes for real world, if your LSD slips, it melts. Heat is the #1 enemy of an LSD. This is why we have traction control in the real world and in GT5. Traction control limits power through the drive train to the wheels, not the LSD.

Higher number means more oversteer and lower number means more understeer.but the rest of the information is fine

 

[Adrenaline]

If locked enough to keep slip under control happens at 12, then why would 30 or 40 be any better. I contend that it is not better.

If 30 or 40 doesn't add any understeer, what's the downside? I contend that there isn't any. Straw man logic need not apply.

You aren't disagreeing with my theory, you're just arguing semantics on how I prefer to define it to a general public. If that's the case, I have no issue with it. I worded it, so non-tuner savvy people can understand and apply the theory at hand. No more, no less.

As for dante, your arguments are far too vague to even take into consideration. This is not a dig at you, but simply a request, that if you want to add to the discussion at hand, that you need to do so in a far more constructive manner, with specifics. "Higher numbers means more <this>" Is far too vague and no one knows what you're referring too. The LSD is comprised of 3 main parts, and you're not speaking about any of them individually.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

This gonna make the throttle too touchy.unless you make the rear firm or you gonna make the car still undriveable.



Higher number means more oversteer and lower number means more understeer.but the rest of the information is fine

Are you kidding me? You're going to sit there and critisize the forums foremost LSD tuner. You make me laugh, lol. I've tried your tunes, you yourself don't have a complete understanding of the LSD and you're going to critique an experienced tuner. Funny stuff.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

As far as I know, initial setting or preload is the amount of torque load used to maintain the same velocity on both wheels, or locking the differential, which in short, up to that torque load, the LSD locks the differential even without any rotational difference between the wheels.

So the the higher the initial setting, the more likely it will stays locked which gives the car understeer.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Higher number means more oversteer and lower number means more understeer.but the rest of the information is fine

Looking for the ignore button until you can provide some evidence of this. Show us your work. What testing have you done?

You aren't disagreeing with my theory, you're just arguing semantics on how I prefer to define it to a general public. If that's the case, I have no issue with it. I worded it, so non-tuner savvy people can understand and apply the theory at hand. No more, no less.

No. I do disagree with your thoery. You believe that the highest I.T. number is best and I believe that the lowest is best. And, hey, speaking of being semantical, you were the one who took issue with my wording, not the other way around. Reguardless, this is much deeper than just wording. I clearly described why I believe that the lower settings are better and you simply replied with basically, "what's wrong with 30 or 40?" I have mad respect for you Adrenaline so I hope you are taking this for what it is... a healthy debate between two of the faster tuners.

As far as I know, initial setting or preload is the amount of torque load used to maintain the same velocity on both wheels, or locking the differential, which in short, up to that torque load, the LSD locks the differential even without any rotational difference between the wheels. So the the higher the initial setting, the more likely it will stays locked which gives the car understeer.

I agree with these statements. But, follow up is needed. Why is the locking and unlocking of a diff important? What can that do for you?

My thoughts: For a really twitchy car like the FGT, stability is important. No sudden movements please. So for really high HP cars, I like higher Initial Torque numbers. And, for lower HP street cars I like really low I.T. numbers as these are easier to toss and catch.

So for Adrenaline, I will sometimes use your thoery to solve a specific problem with high HP cars. But, for 90% of the cars I use in the game, I prefer the lowest initial torque settings for the reasons that I described.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I agree with these statements. But, follow up is needed. Why is the locking and unlocking of a diff important? What can that do for you?

My thoughts: For a really twitchy car like the FGT, stability is important. No sudden movements please. So for really high HP cars, I like higher Initial Torque numbers. And, for lower HP street cars I like really low I.T. numbers as these are easier to toss and catch.

I always tune LSD for stability and optimum traction under braking + corner entry and exits. Most of my tunes have low initial settings, from 6 to 15 and accel at 30 or 37 at most. Braking usually I left it at 5 to have 1.5 way or up to 30 for 2 way. Sometimes I do have have high accel and initial for very tail happy car ( big torque on skinny tire ) like a powerful Opel Speedster Turbo on comfort or sports tires, but then I like to slide these kind of cars

 

[Adrenaline]

No. I do disagree with your thoery. You believe that the highest I.T. number is best and I believe that the lowest is best.

I clearly described why I believe that the lower settings are better and you simply replied with basically, "what's wrong with 30 or 40?"

I think our disconnect, is what you think I mean by 'highest possible'.
When I say 'highest possible, without experiencing understeer' I'm speaking of numbers in the 9-15 range. Not in the 50-60 range. For example, the tests I did today on the GT500 GT-R, I began with 8/10/6. After the 2.09 update, I found this to be too conservative.

Previously 8 was the highest number I could use for the LSD Initial setting, without the car experiencing understeer tendencies. Today (post 2.09) I found that I could run full throttle through the corners with an even higher LSD Initial setting, and the car did not suffer from any understeer and my lap times were 2 tenths quicker. The new setting, was 10. 10 was the highest LSD initial setting I could use, before I started feeling the nose push in the corners.

So, when I say 'use the highest possible setting without experiencing understeer' I'm essentially saying start at 5, and keep going up as high as you possibly can, until you experience understeer, and then go back 1 click.

As for your example, I disagree that you 'clearly' stated anything.
Your example was the following:

If locked enough to keep slip under control happens at 12, then why would 30 or 40 be any better. I contend that it is not better.

My question was simply, why would 30 or 40 be WORSE? What is your logic of disputing the use of 30-40 if it doesn't add any understeer?

My personal belief, (at the current time) is that if you compared an LSD of: 12/15/10
Compared to
24/15/10

That as long as the 24/15/10 did not induce any understeer, it would be faster.
Thus, my reasoning, that the highest initial without experiencing any understeer, is the best way to optimize LSD.

What 99% of my LSD settings fall between are the following:
Initial 7-15
Accel 9-25
DeAccel 5-12

Hope this clears up what I mean when I say 'highest possible'

 

[Motor City Hami]

I think our disconnect, is what you think I mean by 'highest possible'.
When I say 'highest possible, without experiencing understeer' I'm speaking of numbers in the 9-15 range. Not in the 50-60 range. For example, the tests I did today on the GT500 GT-R, I began with 8/10/6. After the 2.09 update, I found this to be too conservative.

Previously 8 was the highest number I could use for the LSD Initial setting, without the car experiencing understeer tendencies. Today (post 2.09) I found that I could run full throttle through the corners with an even higher LSD Initial setting, and the car did not suffer from any understeer and my lap times were 2 tenths quicker. The new setting, was 10. 10 was the highest LSD initial setting I could use, before I started feeling the nose push in the corners.

So, when I say 'use the highest possible setting without experiencing understeer' I'm essentially saying start at 5, and keep going up as high as you possibly can, until you experience understeer, and then go back 1 click.

As for your example, I disagree that you 'clearly' stated anything.
Your example was the following:



My question was simply, why would 30 or 40 be WORSE? What is your logic of disputing the use of 30-40 if it doesn't add any understeer?

My personal belief, (at the current time) is that if you compared an LSD of: 12/15/10
Compared to
24/15/10

That as long as the 24/15/10 did not induce any understeer, it would be faster.
Thus, my reasoning, that the highest initial without experiencing any understeer, is the best way to optimize LSD.

What 99% of my LSD settings fall between are the following:
Initial 7-15
Accel 9-25
DeAccel 5-12

Hope this clears up what I mean when I say 'highest possible'

Wow. Our settings are really close. Without this knowledge, people reading along could have read your wording and thought set the LSD initial torque really high - as high as possible could create misunderstanding.

To add more clarity, I did say why I think 12 is better than 24, to use your example above. You start low then work up until understeer is too much than back down one. I start low and work up until the oversteer is managable and stop there. For sake of argument, in your example of 12 and 24, if these two settings gave very similar oversteer/understeer characteristics, you would choose 24 and I would choose 12.

You choose 24 because you believe that it will give you more acceleration than 12, correct? I am in disagree with saying that 24 will have more go. I believe that these two numbers under this scenario will provide the exact same acceleration.

I would choose 12 because I feel like it is enough to handle the acceleration job (both wheels gripping enough that full power is retained) but I get the added benefit of having a diff unlock more quickly, thus providing a more aggressive turn-in and mid-corner rotation on the Decel end of the equation. There is our difference.

 

[Adrenaline]

To add more clarity, I did say why I think 12 is better than 24, to use your example above. You start low then work up until understeer is too much than back down one. I start low and work up until the oversteer is managable and stop there. For sake of argument, in your example of 12 and 24, if these two settings gave very similar oversteer/understeer characteristics, you would choose 24 and I would choose 12.

You choose 24 because you believe that it will give you more acceleration than 12, correct? I am in disagree with saying that 24 will have more go. I believe that these two numbers under this scenario will provide the exact same acceleration.

I would choose 12 because I feel like it is enough to handle the acceleration job (both wheels gripping enough that full power is retained) but I get the added benefit of having a diff unlock more quickly, thus providing a more aggressive turn-in and mid-corner rotation on the Decel end of the equation. There is our difference.

The lower the Initial Setting, the more I notice (AT transmission) the engine bouncing off the limiter, revving up but not going anywhere. (And see nor hear, any tire spin, or heat build up) Whereas I don't have this issue with higher LSD settings. I know it's probably not LSD "slip" but that's almost what it feels like the game is trying to simulate with really low Initial LSD settings.

Also, when I'm browsing Drag tunes, they mostly use a 60/60/x LSD setup. When I go to the 'Test Track' 60/x/x seems to be faster than 5/x/x in every category. I won't claim that this is better acceleration, but clearly it's effecting something in a positive manner, which helps back up my theory.

It may be all in my head, but as I've stated, if I never see any downside to using higher numbers, there shouldn't be any issues. Your counter argument seems to hinge on the fact I'm sacrificing something I'm not. You're implying a lower number has more aggressive turn in and mid corner rotation. While my theory, specifically said, to go as high as you can without sacrificing any turning ability. So by my tuning method, if I ever lose the 'turn in' or 'mid corner rotation' then clearly by my method, I feel the number is too high, and wouldn't do that.

Does that make sense?

 

[praiano63]

This seems clear to me , very good explanation about LSD accel and decell.
I agree 100%
http://diy-racetuning.net/Forza-Motorsport-4/DIY-limited-slip-differential-tuning.html

 

[dr_slump]

Thats what I meant. No need to correct me as I'm fully aware of what the LSD does and how to tune it. I'm just not the best at explaining things.

Extremely unlucky word choice in this case.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I honestly believe I have learned more about LSD tuning from this discussion than I did in the first 23 months of GT5. It's been very enlightening, thanks fellas.

 

[Adrenaline]

I honestly believe I have learned more about LSD tuning from this discussion than I did in the first 23 months of GT5. It's been very enlightening, thanks fellas.

From whom, out of curiosity.

 

[Motor City Hami]

The lower the Initial Setting, the more I notice (AT transmission) the engine bouncing off the limiter, revving up but not going anywhere. (And see nor hear, any tire spin, or heat build up) Whereas I don't have this issue with higher LSD settings. I know it's probably not LSD "slip" but that's almost what it feels like the game is trying to simulate with really low Initial LSD settings.

I am willing to test that. I never drive automatic so it may be irrelevant to me and others who drive manual, but sure, it's worth a few test drives.

Also, when I'm browsing Drag tunes, they mostly use a 60/60/x LSD setup. When I go to the 'Test Track' 60/x/x seems to be faster than 5/x/x in every category. I won't claim that this is better acceleration, but clearly it's effecting something in a positive manner, which helps back up my theory.

I would also max the LSD in drag racing, because there is no need to turn. In real life, that's where the welded diff then the Detroit locker were first developed.

But, if you do need to turn, that is where the adjustable LSD comes into play. Tuning it really is a decision to how much the wheels should be locked together or allowed to rotate independantly.

 

[Adrenaline]

I am willing to test that. I never drive automatic so it may be irrelevant to me and others who drive manual, but sure, it's worth a few test drives.

I'd even ask, not just you, but anyone. Why do you personally feel that 5/5/5 makes extremely high powered cars so much easier to drive? I don't necessarily have an answer or a theory, but I'm quite interested to hear how other people explain why an "open" differential, makes 900+ HP so much easier to drive? Just curious to see other peoples thoughts on maybe a maxed out Zonda R, or Minolta, and why 5/5/5 LSD seems to tame the car down a considerable amount. (I haven't driven any of these cars post 2.09, not sure if this has changed)

I would also max the LSD in drag racing, because there is no need to turn. In real life, that's where the welded diff then the Detroit locker were first developed.

But, if you do need to turn, that is where the adjustable LSD comes into play. Tuning it really is a decision to how much the wheels should be locked together or allowed to rotate independently.

If you agree it's better for Drag racing, it means you are willing to admit it has an advantage in... something? Straight line acceleration? What?

I'm unsure what you're willing to deem as beneficial from 60/60/x in drag racing, but whatever it is, it seems only logical that as long as we agree the closer to 60 the LSD is, the more of <that> advantage you receive, than we have to agree that it's a progression, that is slowly achieved the closer you get to 60, or the further you get from 5.

Because of the above, I strong feel it supports my initial statement:
You should tune the LSD Initial the highest amount possible, WITHOUT receiving any detriments to turning ability.
And for clarification, more often than not, you will start to experience these 'detriments' in the 10-15 range, long before you ever get close to 60.

 

[Motor City Hami]

If you agree it's better for Drag racing, it means you are willing to admit it has an advantage in... something? Straight line acceleration? What?

Because of the above, I strong feel it supports my initial statement:
You should tune the LSD Initial the highest amount possible, WITHOUT receiving any detriments to turning ability.
And for clarification, more often than not, you will start to experience these 'detriments' in the 10-15 range, long before you ever get close to 60.

Just keep on your own path with blinders on my friend. You are looking for anything to prove your wording right. Nothing in my statement supports your higher is better thoery.

Since you want to keep going back to drag racing, I will explain that. I am o.k. with someone locking the diff at 60/60 for drags because the car does not need to turn. So, settings at 60 will keep both wheels locked together so there will be no risk of either tire losing traction over a bump or road surface traction change. Running low diff settings for drag racing is pointless, since there is no situation where you need the drive wheels to move at different rates of speed. Now, you could go through the effort of setting up a lower LSD and finding the optimum setting that just barely keeps the diff locked together but I don't see what would be there to gain for the effort. Frankly, I don't drag race in GT so if there is some glitch that gives 0.1 seconds faster, it doesn't matter to me because I need a car that turns.

I believe from my testing that the lower initial settings do what I say they are doing. I get better turn in and better mid-corner rotation with lower initial torque settings. So I see IT as a necessary evil to help get the LSD locked enough to get me off the corner. I only plan to use just enough to get the job done.

 

[Adrenaline]

I believe from my testing that the lower initial settings do what I say they are doing. I get better turn in and better mid-corner rotation with lower initial torque settings. So I see IT as a necessary evil to help get the LSD locked enough to get me off the corner. I only plan to use just enough to get the job done.

Do you not define 'less turn in' or 'worse mid-corner rotation' as 'detriments' or 'understeer'? Are you calling them benefits, or oversteer?

 

[Motor City Hami]

Do you not define 'less turn in' or 'worse mid-corner rotation' as 'detriments' or 'understeer'? Are you calling them benefits, or oversteer?

I wouldn't call it oversteer or understeer. I use brake balance and LSD decel to get the right balance. I use initial torque to get more speed down to the apex. So I guess it needs to lean more on the side of oversteer in order to carry the extra speed in the early/mid part of the corner?

 

[trackripper123]

I'd even ask, not just you, but anyone. Why do you personally feel that 5/5/5 makes extremely high powered cars so much easier to drive? I don't necessarily have an answer or a theory, but I'm quite interested to hear how other people explain why an "open" differential, makes 900+ HP so much easier to drive? Just curious to see other peoples thoughts on maybe a maxed out Zonda R, or Minolta, and why 5/5/5 LSD seems to tame the car down a considerable amount. (I haven't driven any of these cars post 2.09, not sure if this has changed)

As I understand the LSD, having lower values of acceleration allows the rear wheels on these hypercars to rotate more independently of one another at different speeds, meaning that the LSD won't suddenly lock both back wheels and make the back overtake the front when you apply the throttle. The initial torque for me (as for many others) defines how much power/torque is needed to make the LSD lock the wheels.

So just to clarify the difference:
Initial - how much power/torque is needed to make the LSD lock the wheels.
Accel - how much the LSD locks the wheels under throttle.

There's a subtle difference I think.

 

[Adrenaline]

Okay. This is the last I'll speak on the matter in regards to our specific debate Hami.

1: We aren't disagreeing. We both appear to tune LSD's the same exact way, but for whatever reason, you don't seem to comprehend my wording or explanation. Whether by your fault or my own, it's irrelevant and doesn't warrant continued discussion over a matter on which we're both saying the same thing, because I don't feel we are disagreeing in anyway. (In regards to how we tune the LSD in GT5)

2: For those following along, or trying to learn/understand for personal reasons, or maybe a last attempt for Hami to understand:
My personal beleif and method is that you should tune the LSD Initial the highest amount possible, WITHOUT receiving any detriments to turning ability. If you experience less turn-in or a lack of mid-corner rotation, those are both things I consider handling detriments, that negatively effect your ability to turn. Also known as understeer. If you experience these things, then you went too high with the Initial Setting, and you should go back to your previous setting, where those issues did not exist. Begin with low numbers and work your way up, until you find the breaking point. (Target range is usually between 7-20)

Thus I'll repeat. Use the highest setting possible WITHOUT hindering your maneuverability. If your turning is hindered, then you didn't listen; it's that simple. (Although there will be tracks where small sacrifices in turning ability, will still show increased lap times, due to a track being dominated by specific types of turns, where it would make sense, to sacrifice maneuverability in 2-3 turns, to gain an advantage in 5-6 turns.)