Project Motor Racing General Discussion

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Beezer215
I don't know why they even needed to do this. Could have just stayed quiet and none would be the wiser. Again, they now have a development team that is around the size of Kunos and Reiza, and yet it's the end of times. The sky is falling. Squirrel's wearing a wire. My Mother in-law actually loves me and it's weird.
Look what AMS2 pumps out? We had to wait a year for 1.6 that was supposed to come out in a month because they found some deep physics issues. Kuno plugging away at ACE (albeit a slow plug). The fact that people have to demean everything is wild. Can't just be happy that people are trying to make a sim. They're trying to make it work, all the naysayers are not. They would rather see people fail then to have something nice. This is the state of society today.
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I understand what you're saying and I agree, but you can't really expect people's good will when they have been lied to. They will be cheering for consequences even if they are misdirected or if in some cases they don't understand that the people getting hurt are, in the majority of cases, not responsible for the state the game was released on.
 
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One thing I've come to realize, is that the "racing" in simracing is somewhat a niche part of a niche genre. I did some game hopping last night, ranked on PMR, Raceroom, Evo was quiet, then I had a look at the Evo server browser, thousands of players are just driving around the tourist layout of the Nordshleiffe, cruising around. Simgrid didnt even have multiple splits for the current and previous races, but there were dozens of full 32 player lobbies for cruising. Explains why everyone compares AC steam numbers favourably, everyone's just cruising, actual numbers of those racing is much lower.
 
And AC didn't even receive all these "cruising" maps until recently. The Shutoko Revival project started something that took off. Well into or after the official life cycle of Assetto Corsa was over. Now we have Rain, traffic and servers of people following each other around on freeways while dodging traffic. Dozens of like 10 gig massive maps. With real roads and traffic.
Now in 2013, when people were complaining about all the stuff that didn't work or feel right or was wrong in AC, would they have ever imagined we'd be here today 10 years later?
AC Evo being the successor to this is a great place to be in. Because people are expecting to have that experience built on that reputation that Kunos have built. And AC was primitive at the time. The menus were abysmally stagnant with pinball machine sounds.
Coincidentally, AC Evo has that same feeling of clunky retro menu.
If PC2 is "total crap" then why are we even here in the first place? (PC2 isn't total crap by the way)
Everyone wants a new sim but nobody will let anyone build that sim without being ripped to shreds.
Hit that snooze button and come back after an update or 2. It's OK to wait.
 
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syphe
FM went for 18months before layoffs, during that time I was able to find multiplayer lobbies the whole time. You wouldn't call it a success, but it wasn't a complete failure like this.

Last night I jumped on, there were a total of 10 people registered for the upcoming events, the ranked race started with 6, and there were a max of 2 players registered for the next social races.

There becomes a point where the player numbers make multiplayer non functional, and PMR hit that point in 2 weeks.
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I don't know which platform you are playing on but, on PS5 around 9pm I am able to find many lobbies almost full specially the MX5 one-make races
 
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wicken
I don't know which platform you are playing on but, on PS5 around 9pm I am able to find many lobbies almost full specially the MX5 one-make races
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FM isn't on PS5, so I have some serious doubt you found any lobby.
 
MagpieRacer
I think he's talking about PMR ranked online.
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Ah, ok. I saw he was talking about FM, but maybe his next paragraph was switching to PMR. My bad. Ah yes, paragraph 3 confirmed he was talking about PMR.

ill-shut-up-now-samus-paulicelli.png
 
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doblocruiser
I wonder if Ian position has let to removing him from the project too?
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He’s the founder (and probably owner) of the studio so I doubt it. He’s probably doing everything he can to secure additional funding and avoid future layoffs.

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Today’s announcement sounds like a money problem. My hunch is that whatever funding Straight 4 had accumulated during development got eaten up by said development (remember, they switched engines halfway through) and they had to release a product to keep the lights on.

Said product is out and today’s news has effectively confirmed that it hasn’t brought in enough additional revenue to keep the team afloat without downsizing.

If I were to speculate on what comes next:

  • Unless they refund everyone (which would effectively kill the studio, and I doubt the publisher wants to make things messy either) they have to make and release the DLC content that they have pre-sold to customers. Based on their marketing material that’s a year or so of support guaranteed.
  • This car and track content will be the priority going forward, they must deliver it.
  • Whatever resources are left after that (that they can afford to keep) will be put towards quality of life improvements and bug fixes. I wouldn’t be surprised if some stretch goal-like projects (like VR) get cut.
  • If the improvements come quickly and the game has a renaissance (which is extremely rare in this industry), maybe the team can grow, fully realise their vision and entertain notions of a second year of support, or even early development on a sequel.
The good news is that the game didn’t bomb so hard that it killed the studio.

The bad news is that the game struggled enough to materially impact the lives of those who made it, and if industry trends are anything to go by it will be tough to recover.

I’ve seen this “get content out the door first” approach with WRC, DIRT 5, GRID, even Project CARS 3 to some extent (though by the time I was doing social media for it, it was already at end of service), and the patterns appear similar. Features/improvements are always welcome additions but the priority is getting out content that you can sell or have sold already.

Layoffs suck, you go through the same emotions as a death if you’re at risk, and there’s also a bit of survivor’s guilt if you’re on the other side. I hope those affected can get through that in one piece, it’s not easy. I was fortunate enough to get on to Battlefield after WRC ended support, but it was touch and go for a few months.
 
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syphe
One thing I've come to realize, is that the "racing" in simracing is somewhat a niche part of a niche genre. I did some game hopping last night, ranked on PMR, Raceroom, Evo was quiet, then I had a look at the Evo server browser, thousands of players are just driving around the tourist layout of the Nordshleiffe, cruising around. Simgrid didnt even have multiple splits for the current and previous races, but there were dozens of full 32 player lobbies for cruising. Explains why everyone compares AC steam numbers favourably, everyone's just cruising, actual numbers of those racing is much lower.
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I guess my habits aren't soo strange then.
 
syphe
One thing I've come to realize, is that the "racing" in simracing is somewhat a niche part of a niche genre. I did some game hopping last night, ranked on PMR, Raceroom, Evo was quiet, then I had a look at the Evo server browser, thousands of players are just driving around the tourist layout of the Nordshleiffe, cruising around. Simgrid didnt even have multiple splits for the current and previous races, but there were dozens of full 32 player lobbies for cruising. Explains why everyone compares AC steam numbers favourably, everyone's just cruising, actual numbers of those racing is much lower.
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I really hate to say it, but I think a lot of people have been chased off of online racing. Either it's basically impossible for most of us to be remotely competitive so you quit, or you have some run-ins with trolls so you quit. Or your internet isn't quite up to snuff, causing all kinds of headaches, and you quit. This is supposed to be a fun pastime and distraction from the drudgery of our lives, and getting your head beat in by 5 seconds a lap, griefers who just won't leave you alone, and/or lagging and constant dropouts just isn't. So if you're sociable enough maybe you do open driving online, and if you're not, you go single player.
 
r_outsider
I really hate to say it, but I think a lot of people have been chased off of online racing. Either it's basically impossible for most of us to be remotely competitive so you quit, or you have some run-ins with trolls so you quit. Or your internet isn't quite up to snuff, causing all kinds of headaches, and you quit. This is supposed to be a fun pastime and distraction from the drudgery of our lives, and getting your head beat in by 5 seconds a lap, griefers who just won't leave you alone, and/or lagging and constant dropouts just isn't. So if you're sociable enough maybe you do open driving online, and if you're not, you go single player.
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I have never raced online. I'm not that competitive and I'm definitely not sociable.
 
I can't play online any more as I refuse to pay a Microsoft multiplayer tax monthly when PC users and their free Xbox games get to.

Really hoping someone in racing spots the enormous opportunity presented by releasing a free title, then have us buy addon tracks and cars to fund it, iRacing? PMR?

Imagine the model could be cloned possibly even offer cross play to a mobile version?

Real Racing looks nice but it's truly horrific in terms of them asking for £40 every ten minutes. If someone came along and wiped EA out for that it'd be great. I see I now HAVE GIANTS Farming Simulator 23 for mobile free via Netflix...
 
r_outsider
I really hate to say it, but I think a lot of people have been chased off of online racing. Either it's basically impossible for most of us to be remotely competitive so you quit, or you have some run-ins with trolls so you quit. Or your internet isn't quite up to snuff, causing all kinds of headaches, and you quit. This is supposed to be a fun pastime and distraction from the drudgery of our lives, and getting your head beat in by 5 seconds a lap, griefers who just won't leave you alone, and/or lagging and constant dropouts just isn't. So if you're sociable enough maybe you do open driving online, and if you're not, you go single player.
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I only do single player and some friendly hotlapping but online racing...not for me anymore. I used to do that a lot during the GT4 and DTM era but I prefer single player for my personal enjoyment. The scene has changed so much that I simply can't be bothered with it anymore.

I think a good move for PMR would be to free those challenges so they are accessible without PS+. It could get small groups going and increase the longlivety but hey...time will tell...
 
PJTierney
I’ve seen this with WRC, GRID, even Project CARS 3 to some extent (though by the time I was doing social media for it, it was already at end of service), and the patterns appear similar.
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The pattern was also there with earlier Project CARS titles. (Those who were part of WMD will remember the internal convos) The only difference was that in those cases the decision to release did not backfire. Especially PC1, the return on the investment for backers for that one was nuts. Never repeated since. But the call to release despite issues was there both times. Needed the funds from the pre-orders and further sales to stay afloat.

But we live in a different era today. No meat on the bones of studios (I know Ian and the other heads put in a lot of their own money at the time of PC1/2, not sure about that this time around) and consumers fed up with paying full cash for half-ready titles.
 
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NLxAROSA
The pattern was also there with earlier Project CARS titles. (Those who were part of WMD will remember the internal convos) The only difference was that in those cases the decision to release did not backfire. Especially PC1, the return on the investment for backers for that one was nuts. Never repeated since. But the call to release despite issues was there both times. Needed the funds from the pre-orders and further sales to stay afloat.

But we live in a different era today. No meat on the bones of studios (I know Ian and the other heads put in a lot of their own money at the time of PC1/2, not sure about that this time around) and consumers fed up with paying full cash for half-ready titles.
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Almost zero games are finished when they come out. I think it’s more of a case of studios shot themselves in the foot when they introduced preorder options. Worked at first, but quickly turned into nothing was really finished.

Can blame the consumer for preordering in the first place but studios made it look enticing by making some content only available IF you preordered. It just slowly morphed into preorder a game, when it comes out we’ll finish it a year later.

Titles just get rushed out the door or taken out of the oven way too soon. Why? $$$. And not just money, but money right now!

I remember seeing a YouTuber who made desks and such. They got the money up front and they mentioned how they hated when that happened because they already got paid, there was no deadline for the piece, so it’d go on the back burner, they’d remember they’d have to finish it and it felt like suddenly they were working for free because it was months since they got the lump sum for this piece they agreed to make.

I imagine sometimes that is somewhat present with game development. Rather than chase the carrot, you’re fed the carrot but not for a year or two you have to chase the rabbit for no reward.
 
Tool1312
Nothing on Ian Bell's twitter since the 28th of November
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Not on his main feed at least, he is responding to people as recently as this morning if you go into his replies.

Nothing out of the ordinary mind, defending his EA comments from a few years ago and assuring that PMR is still on track.
 

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