Project Motor Racing General Discussion

[hawkeyez]

Yeah, I agree it's worthwhile for many people to be guarded like you, if they're not confident the game has what they want. As I said, for a SP guy like me with zero interest in replays etc, it's a decent game.
Re the cost, yeah, everyone has their own limits. The way I look at it is: I buy maybe 10 or more £50-£80 games per year for Switch or PS, mostly for the kids, but one or two will be mostly for me, and of those 10, maybe 2 or 3 will be played a lot, another 5 or so will kinda get played, and the last 2 or 3 will hardly get played at all; but you never know which is which until you have them. So it's best to just do the math: total spend on games, divided by hours people in the family spent on them (any of them, even if only one of them got all the playtime), to give a cost per hour figure. It's always absolute peanuts. Stops you getting hung up on whether you've 'wasted' cash on a particular title. Do understand though that money can be tight for some people (or some people can be tight with money...) so maybe not everyone can justify it like that.
PMR is looking like it'll get a fair bit of playtime from me anyway so will probably end up being good value per hour, even on an individual title basis.

Edit: specifically on the free demo idea; they'll not do it because, as I said, it takes time to set up all the input settings, a lot of faffing about that even now I'm no closer to understanding, and, on pad for sure, a decent amount of time to get used to any given car. As a demo, most people just wouldn't have patience, they'd bin it within the first 30 minutes. It needs to be easier to play from the off.

Huh? Subsidize the cost of PMR using other games to make it seem like I didn’t waste money on it if I don’t end up playing it because the other games I paid for were fun to play. I might be missing your point though.

And again, it’s actually a good game, you just need to spend more than half an hour on it just to get it dialled in. This doesn’t sound like great physics or FFB implementation if I have that much control over the FFB. I get having the options but it should be pretty much good to go from the get go and the ffb settings and car setups is just fine tuning.

Is it really that far off you need to spend that much time to get it going and useable or driveable? And you’re no closer to understanding it? A hardcore sim probably should have it sorted out beforehand and you jump in a car and drive it. You wouldn’t drive it and think hmmm I better tweak this and that. Yes a car setup helps it do what you want but off the bat it shouldn’t be overly difficult to drive.

 

[kartman21]

Who exactly did that?

Source please, as the PMR website still claims the following.

View attachment 1498341

That alone is not what people were talking about.

And that had what to do with my post?

Look, I've long supported title he's been involved in, it's possible to do so and also understand that he's often his own worse enemy.

Case in point, PCars3 was a perfectly enjoyable title, but it certainly wasn't 'all the sim you could want'.

Got your point, I'm sorry I don't get the source, I can't remember where I heard it or read it but it was from a interview this summer, when I choose to preorder the game, hopping for a pcars 2 successor

Anyway I like the game and what it offer, I believe it could be great because the foundation are good, so far, even if actually the ffb on PS5 with my TM wheels is buggy, the experience is far more enjoyable than any of my cars game, even racing with AI is fun (despite some bugs), this is a starting point, the game will evolve and mods are coming

Ian Bell is a salesman, agreed, but I do like his vision despite some promises he can't keep and shortcomings (I don't consider PCARS 3 it was one of his kind, mostly handle by ear and Codemaster)

He's not any worse than "built from the ground up" or KT racing with TDU SC

 

[SpacedInvader]

Huh? Subsidize the cost of PMR using other games to make it seem like I didn’t waste money on it if I don’t end up playing it because the other games I paid for were fun to play. I might be missing your point though.

Try to stop being so deliberately obtuse. It's not rocket science. Some games you play/enjoy more than others, and it's hard to know which will be which before you actually get into them.
If you see it as 'subsidising' a studio to buy a game from them you might (or might not) like, then yeah, I suppose so, isn't every purchase you make in life subsidising somebody?

We get it. You're a glass-half-empty guy. You want cast-iron guarantees it's gonna be exactly what you want before you commit. Well, I'm surprised you have any games at all on your PS5.

I explained why the game is pretty good for somebody like me. You're not like me, so no worries.

 

[Scaff]

Got your point, I'm sorry I don't get the source, I can't remember where I heard it or read it but it was from a interview this summer,

Without the source we can only work with what we have, and the official website is quite clear on what they are claiming.

when I choose to preorder the game, hopping for a pcars 2 successor

I think most were, but even PC2 was better at launch, and we already have AMS2.

Anyway I like the game and what it offer, I believe it could be great because the foundation are good, so far, even if actually the ffb on PS5 with my TM wheels is buggy, the experience is far more enjoyable than any of my cars game, even racing with AI is fun (despite some bugs), this is a starting point, the game will evolve and mods are coming

That adds some important context, for console racers the options are very limited, over on PC we already have a lot of strong alternatives.

Ian Bell is a salesman, agreed, but I do like his vision despite some promises he can't keep and shortcomings (I don't consider PCARS 3 it was one of his kind, mostly handle by ear and Codemaster)

A good salesman knows he's going to have to sell to you more than once, a track record of being misleading makes you bad salesman and puts off repeat business.

Nor were all the faults of PC3 EA or Codemasters fault, despite Ian Bell's attempts to retcon things. After all neither actually published the title.

He's not any worse than "built from the ground up" or KT racing with TDU SC

Indeed, but they also quite rightly got flack for it,

 

[slthree]

The update sounds good. I hope there will be continuous improvement now. It always seemed to be a passion project from a team of automobile enthusiasts, I would think they were devastated with the problems at launch.

I haven't commented on the situation since it was released because not yet having the game I felt I wasn't in a position to give judgement on it.

My credit card has just clicked over onto a new month, I shall go and buy PMR later. I'm optimistic, it's the best way to be.
I'll be back!

Can't wait for you to jump in. Myself, haven't played it since after the 1st update. Too many things I didn't like, but I'm still (maybe hopelessly) optimistic because I have had since rent good moments

 

[hawkeyez]

Try to stop being so deliberately obtuse. It's not rocket science. Some games you play/enjoy more than others, and it's hard to know which will be which before you actually get into them.
If you see it as 'subsidising' a studio to buy a game from them you might (or might not) like, then yeah, I suppose so, isn't every purchase you make in life subsidising somebody?

We get it. You're a glass-half-empty guy. You want cast-iron guarantees it's gonna be exactly what you want before you commit. Well, I'm surprised you have any games at all on your PS5.

I explained why the game is pretty good for somebody like me. You're not like me, so no worries.

I own lots of PS games. Only been taken on a few and learned my lesson. Learn to read between the lines. I’m not short on money to buy PlayStation games. I’ve invested a lot into building a sim rig.

Probably why I’m careful to jump into PMR when all the reviews of it seem tainted by “it’s ok but it’s not what they said it was going to be…” because not only is it not supporting some hardware I have when it should be right out the gates, peoples opinions vary greatly and they don’t just sound like this game doesn’t work they want it to or I wish they had these cars or this track. A lot of the complaints or concerns stem from the meat and bones of the game.

People taking an hour or more to try and dial in some kind of useable settings. AI straight up colliding out of nowhere.

Anyway, was just pointing out a lot of people that own the game have sounded like they possibly regret buying it but are making the best of it since they can’t return it. Some straight up bought it and have shelved it. Not what a person wants to hear. Still think they should do a demo. If it takes so long to get their FFB etc dialled in maybe they should give a weekend pass so people “give it a chance”

 

[Tool1312]

This isn't the case, PMR was always, and has always been pitched as a hardcore sim, iRacing, AC/ACC have always been the prime targets for the driving physics.

Yeah, a driving game where physics were described as very in depth, down to measurements made from the tie rod etc, were very much geared towards being a full sim, including all the hype and yet it seems in reality to be more aimed at casual gamepad player. That in itself is not a slur on controller players in any way but it wasn't been truthful in it's target market

 

[r_outsider]

Yeah, a driving game where physics were described as very in depth, down to measurements made from the tie rod etc, were very much geared towards being a full sim, including all the hype and yet it seems in reality to be more aimed at casual gamepad player. That in itself is not a slur on controller players in any way but it wasn't been truthful in it's target market

You're confusing vehicle dynamics and controller implementation.

 

[Morbid65]

It's a big circular problem, isn't it? I have no good answers for the skill problems. I always tried to race who I was racing and learn from faster players. Mostly I had a good time, even when I was getting lapped. It was rural internet, bad collision physics, and online jerks that chased me off. Forza splitting by safety rating and then skill rating helped a lot, IMO. Maybe I'll give it a go on PMR now that my internet is more or less solved.

Yeah it's difficult, and I think the problem is a bit amplified by how split the racing game community usually is, with some absolutely refusing to touch multiplayer, and some who can't be bothered to touch single player.

Some want a fantasy where they are the fastest in the world all the time, but true "simulation" has to have fast people and slow people, and in the real world it simply is what it is. Slow guys still race series all over the world and there are people who have raced for years and don't have a single trophy on their wall, but they do it for the fun/passion/challenge. I get people want different things, but I do think it's important to find the enjoyment in the challenge and the individual battles rather than results, because there is always someone else out there that is faster and getting too hung up on that means it can be tough to ever be happy.

I personally don't find that Forza actually splits like they promise, I'm currently 4999/S and every lobby I'm in has a few people near me, and few people a little behind the front group, and a few clumsy people bonking into each other 8 seconds off the pace, exactly like playing with randos in any other game. Splits can't really work though when they dump straight into a lobby, only a system where you register for an event and get sorted later will really properly divide things up.

Personally, I find joining an organized league for these things as the best way to enjoy racing games, and it's not even close. You don't have to deal with braindead, characterless AI, don't have to deal with griefers and careless sloppy people as they will be shown the door usually, although at the lower skill end of the grid things will inherently be a little clumsier of course, but at least you know it isn't malicious then. It's interesting too because racing against the same people every week helps you build up that sorta realistic "notebook" on your fellow drivers so you know cars/tracks/conditions where they struggle, know who you can pressure into mistakes, who will race you hard and who will let you go, and so on, all like real life drivers do when they race together in the same series for years. It can take a little effort to find a group that "fits" you the best, but it's worth it.

It does actually sound like PMR was on the right track with the multiplayer stuff so it could be a good one to get back into it, but sadly if the players numbers are too low then there won't be enough splits to put similar skill levels together. Similar issue for Rennsport really, but at least PMR has the single player side of things where people will probably still buy DLC to keep money coming in.

 

[Jezza819]

I thought I would try it again tonight because someone on the PMR forum said they thought reducing the AI down to 16 might help the crashing problem on PC. It didn't help. It crashed on lap 8 of a 10 lap race.

 

[hawkeyez]

I thought I would try it again tonight because someone on the PMR forum said they thought reducing the AI down to 16 might help the crashing problem on PC. It didn't help. It crashed on lap 8 of a 10 lap race.

Well idk, I guess keep trying different until the Straight 4 sorts it out?

 

[zaxs]

I thought I would try it again tonight because someone on the PMR forum said they thought reducing the AI down to 16 might help the crashing problem on PC. It didn't help. It crashed on lap 8 of a 10 lap race.

Do yourself a favor and don't play it yet, until next update, which should come this week.
Maybe something changes, although, I doubt for now - there are months of fixing ahead, if team survives...

 

[Jezza819]

Do yourself a favor and don't play it yet, until next update, which should come this week.
Maybe something changes, although, I doubt for now - there are months of fixing ahead, if team survives...

Yeah I know. I just wanted to try that one thing just to see what would happen....and it happend.

 

[kartman21]

Without the source we can only work with what we have, and the official website is quite clear on what they are claiming.

I think most were, but even PC2 was better at launch, and we already have AMS2.

That adds some important context, for console racers the options are very limited, over on PC we already have a lot of strong alternatives.

A good salesman knows he's going to have to sell to you more than once, a track record of being misleading makes you bad salesman and puts off repeat business.

Nor were all the faults of PC3 EA or Codemasters fault, despite Ian Bell's attempts to retcon things. After all neither actually published the title.

Indeed, but they also quite rightly got flack for it,

We have different point of view, and I get your POV, I'm pretty sure there far more interesting competitors on PC for hardcore sim, if it is what you are looking for

PC2 wasn't that great at launch, (less crash but lot of bugs) and from my memories it became good only after the big 2.0 patch get release
Today, on PS5, I disagree saying PCARS2 is prettier than PMR

You don't like Ian, I get it, I understand, but there's a team behind him, working hard to improve

They already get punish enought, now it's time to stop pushing them in the mud and giving them a chance to deliver.

Maybe we should be grateful for having a new racing game bringing a nice solo mode and carrer and mod support on consoles, we should support them

If you need to discuss more my arguments, PM me, I'm done here

 

[Scaff]

We have different point of view, and I get your POV, I'm pretty sure there far more interesting competitors on PC for hardcore sim, if it is what you are looking for

Given that the only title we don't get is GT7 (and I have a PS5 for that) it's not speculation.

PC2 wasn't that great at launch, (less crash but lot of bugs) and from my memories it became good only after the big 2.0 patch get release
Today, on PS5, I disagree saying PCARS2 is prettier than PMR

Disagree, it had a lot less issues at launch. In regard to looks I'm talking from a PC perspective.

You don't like Ian, I get it, I understand,

When did I say that?

but there's a team behind him, working hard to improve

They already get punish enought, now it's time to stop pushing them in the mud and giving them a chance to deliver.

I've not done so, that aside, valid criticism is valid and should not be hidden.

Maybe we should be grateful for having a new racing game bringing a nice solo mode and carrer and mod support on consoles, we should support them

It's not a zero-sum game, it's perfectly possible to be honest about the title and still support the title.

If you need to discuss more my arguments, PM me, I'm done here

This is a discussion forum, I'm not moving a perfectly valid discussion to PM.

 

[Fezzik]

I'm hoping the mod support does actually happen. Would probably need a boost in the PC userbase. Fingers crossed the updates bring some people back to the game.

 

[doblocruiser]

Scaff and Kartman, you both have valid points and I can see but sides. Interesting and civil discussion. It's good 👍 If you disagree with eachother that's fine.

I am on the fence with this since I think Ian is handling this differently than the PC series. The openess with which he responds, I haven't seen before and I really like PMR. A lot more than PC in terms of driving. I'll give S4 the benefit of the doubt since I like their vision.

 

[Scaff]

Scaff and Kartman, you both have valid points and I can see but sides. Interesting and civil discussion. It's good 👍 If you disagree with eachother that's fine.

I am on the fence with this since I think Ian is handling this differently than the PC series. The openess with which he responds, I haven't seen before and I really like PMR. A lot more than PC in terms of driving. I'll give S4 the benefit of the doubt since I like their vision.

For me, delivery and length of support will be needed to see if this is different to (for example, PC3) and if this is an ACC rise from the ashes or a NASCAR Ignition crash and burn.

I like the concept, I've bought the full version and have even held off a review until the next patch drops, but still fully support those who have provided an honest (and that is key) critique of the title so far.

 

[Source53]

I played the game for about 21 hours. Honestly, playing with the DualSense controller was quite difficult when I first started. The steering responses are very sensitive; the car feels like it's suddenly darting left and right. But after making some tweaks in the settings, the game suddenly became much more playable. I'm quite happy with the controls now.

The graphics of the cars in the menu are excellent; they look really high-quality. However, the quality drops a bit when you start racing; you don't see the same detailed visuals on the track as you do in the menu.

In terms of performance, it generally runs smoothly on the PS5 Pro, but there are occasional very rare, minor frame drops, especially in heavy traffic. It's not enough to ruin the game, but it's still noticeable.

Regarding the car list, it wouldn't be fair to compare it to GT7 or Forza; those are on a whole other level. This game has a small number of cars, but it has some very special racing cars. It's few but excellent.

Overall, after adjusting the settings, it was a game I enjoyed. There are a few shortcomings, but the racing feel is great.

 

[CTRL Garage]

Has anyone found good FFB settings? I’ve followed GM’s video but the car only feels good over kerbs… I have no idea what the front or rear is doing mid corner, it’s just nothing

 

[kartman21]

Has anyone found good FFB settings? I’ve followed GM’s video but the car only feels good over kerbs… I have no idea what the front or rear is doing mid corner, it’s just nothing

It depends which wheel you have and the system you're running the game
On PS5, actually the FFB is bugged for most wheels
So you'll better wait for the next patch coming by the end of the week

 

[hawkeyez]

It depends which wheel you have and the system you're running the game
On PS5, actually the FFB is bugged for most wheels
So you'll better wait for the next patch coming by the end of the week

I just saw a post a friend of mine sent that the G Pro is doing all kinds of wonky stuff.

I don’t get it. Was there absolutely no testing? (I think I saw Ian say something about they didn’t test something and they regret that) Maybe they were just unaware of the Logitech G Pro that’s been out for 2-3 years?

I’ll still keep an eye on the game with its updates. See what happens.