PS3 Failures Featured On Watchdog

[Robin]

For those of you outside of the UK Watchdog is a BBC programme which independantly investigates issues which the public have raised with them regarding consumer products, services etc.

Tonight there main focus is the PS3 and its YLOD. As I have always said this is a major problem way bigger than any official figures will say, so much so that now Watchdog has investigated it. It particularly angers early adopters who paid over 400 quid and were promised by Kaz Hirai that it would be a console with a 10 year lifespan.

I've just watched the first few minutes (its on right now) and they have a few YLOD victims and they also have some independent engineers who will attempt to fix the YLOD on some machines before the end of the show. They also X rayed the machines and found trapped gas in the chip die which Sony have claimed is not the issue (surely they shouldnt be there anyway!)

No one wants to pay Sony over 100 quid to fix it and to boot get back someone elses console (refurb). Also as the refurb warranty is only 3 months its very likely that it it will break again within a year.

Im glad that these issues have finally got onto TV and I would hope Sony offer a 5 year warranty like MS. I've had a dead BR drive for 6 months now and it has made me angry because apparently a fault in the design of the original lazer assembly means that how ever many new ones you put in it will break again within about a year.

I will keep this thread updated and will post up a video of the episode when its available on the net because the info might help all you guys with the YLOD issue. Watchdog has a good track record of pressuring companies into doing things so im hopeful for something! Or at least an explanation as to why these issues happen.

It clearly annoyed Sony!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2009/sep/17/games-gameculture1

Robin.

 

[Sureboss]

They happen because electronic parts don't have 100% reliability and never will. It's not a major issue either.

 

[Touring Mars]

That said, they still have to play by the Sale of Goods Act, which means consumers in the UK have a legal right to expect products like PS3's to last for decent period of time before having to pay for a replacement or repair charges if the equipment was faulty to begin with. In my book, a PS3 ought to last atleast 3-5 years if it has been subjected to normal use and storage....

 

[Tomaz]

Why YLOD even appears?

 

[Barbados246_8]

I glad to see your post & will be looking forward to more info. I too have been a victim of the YLOD, B/Ray & Power Supply issues & have resorted in sending my system back to Sony.

Does watchdog have live video streaming, as i reside in the island of Barbados, West Indies & would not be privy to that channel.

 

[Robin]

They do stream in but only in the UK, its finished now anyway. Im sure it will be available on YouTube tomorrow and I will get it up when its available. They actually fixed them by putting the Motherboards in a special oven (what people try to do at home with 360's and hairdryer) to 'reflow' the solder.

Its a joke Sony charge over 100 pounds, even with the labour and postage. It took independent guys 30 mins per console to fix them and you get yours back will all your HDD content intact.

It's not a major issue either.

And I suppose your the type of consumer who believes everything officially stated is true then. Just look at the government, nearly all the figures they produce are total lies. If no one ever questioned things nothing would ever get sorted. I cannot believe that people still use the 'official figure' card.

It wouldnt be on TV if it was something major, plus even Watchdog acknowledge that what Sony admit and what is the truth is very different. I dont even have the YLOD but im so glad that this is getting out on to TV and hopefully more people will write to the BBC about it.

Robin.

 

[Moglet]

I glad to see your post & will be looking forward to more info. I too have been a victim of the YLOD, B/Ray & Power Supply issues & have resorted in sending my system back to Sony.

Does watchdog have live video streaming, as i reside in the island of Barbados, West Indies & would not be privy to that channel.

Watchdog is a tv show on BBC, and I believe they only broadcast in the UK online.

My PS3 has had the YLOD and Sony were brilliant at fixing it and very helplful on the phone, but if it goes again I will not be happy. When I used to work at Currys we had loads of them being bought back, even more than the 360, which we sold more of!

 

[Sureboss]

Why YLOD even appears?

Iirc it means that the system is in a state of "ready for service".

Agree with TM above, 3-5 years I expect my PS3 to last. Currently a year old now, get's quite solidly used and runs perfectly. If it can match my PS2 I'll love it, I dropped it twice from 4 feet (tripping on controller wires is no longer an issue!) and it still works, had it for about 7 years now. Have repaired it myself. Don't forget those laws too, consumer laws in the UK are very strong, yet many people don't use them, or know about them.

I'll also say that the majority of consumers don't know how to look after most goods, be it consoles, software, anything.

 

[DaddyVDUB]

Thanks for being on top of this Robin. I have as of yet had no problems with my PS3,its over 1 year old and I hold my breath a little every time I power it up. I do have an extended warranty but I will keep up with what Sony is doing aout all this.

 

[Robin]

Some of the episode has already been put up on YouTube, im sure the full thing will be online soon.



Robin.

 

[Custer85]

My PS3 got the YLOD 2 hours ago and iam really hoping for a longer warrenty, because i dont have the money to buy a PS3 Slim for 299, i cant even pay the 162,92 they charge for a refurbished console. I want my console back and not someones console, that might have other problems. I treated my console as good as one could, it had room to breathe to all 4 sides (more than 60cm to every side) and i never moved it since i set it up.

Its a shame! I just bought SHIFT today and i wont be playing it for some time now. Lucky me that Christmas is just arround the corner.

 

[FLASH48]

Almost three years, and my launch 60gig is still kicking! I also average at least 8hrs a day on it sense, i have had it. I feel very lucky so far!

 

[Robin]

Almost three years, and my launch 60gig is still kicking! I also average at least 8hrs a day on it sense, i have had it. I feel very lucky so far!

Well you live in Alaska! Im sure your PS3 loves the climate!

Solution to YLOD's... Move to really really cold places!

 

[FLASH48]

Well you live in Alaska! Im sure your PS3 loves the climate!

Solution to YLOD's... Move to really really cold places!

I also use my PS3, to heat my house in the winter!!

 

[Kinetic]

Also worth noting alot of people dont take care of there consoles or look after them..

Alot of people i know just use it on carpets or dusty areas' never clean the vents hoover / canned air..

People don't shut down there consoles properley then get HD errors, sony added a shut down icon to the XMB and long 6axis press for a reason, its a complicated technical machine, shut it down properley.

Im not saying sony don't have a part in this but alot of people's console error's could be prevented by actually looking after there consoles

 

[Blitz187]

Not looking to flame here.. but I was looking around on the net and ran into this:

http://www.squaretrade.com/pages/xbox360-ps3-wii-reliability-08-2009/

Then came on here and saw this... might have some relevance to the topic.. Seems Xbox is even worse according to the research performed here...

-Edit: Attached the PDF thats available there for Download... its an interesting read actually..

 

[Custer85]

Also worth noting alot of people dont take care of there consoles or look after them..

Alot of people i know just use it on carpets or dusty areas' never clean the vents hoover / canned air..

People don't shut down there consoles properley then get HD errors, sony added a shut down icon to the XMB and long 6axis press for a reason, its a complicated technical machine, shut it down properley.

Im not saying sony don't have a part in this but alot of people's console error's could be prevented by actually looking after there consoles

I treaded my console as good as i could. I bought it for 599 and thats a lot of money! It had room to breathe to all 4 sides, 40cm to the front (my Racingseat stands in front of it) and more than 1.5 meters to all other sides and i allways cept it as cool as possible. I allways switched it off by using the XMB, telling the console to shut down. I never moved it since the day i bought it (3.5 years) and i always removed the dust on and arround it.

I send it to some company here in Germany (Konsolenprofis.de) and they will repair the YLOD for 99 and they said its a comon failure and its allways the same thing causing the problem and you cant really do anything to prevent it. (and i get a 6 month warrenty)
Enough of that, i send my console to them today and will get it back next week. I will be playing GT5 on my console, thats the most important thing!

 

[Kinetic]

Like i said, it's not always due to user negligence.. i've had two of mine YLOD and i treated them perfectly, im just saying that i'd imagine a high number were do to people not treating them properly

 

[Mad Matt]

Just because something appears on Watchdog doesn't make it so. They don't appear to have done any scientific study, just reacted to a few e-mails they got.

They haven't brought anything new to the debate, except to show how it can be fixed.

While I agree that Sony should be challenged if they are at fault, what we need are independent figures from a sufficient cross section of owners. So far the only independent reports we have indicate an industry standard failure rate. While these figures may not cover a long period and may exclude some people who didn't bother repairing their equipment they are the only figures we've got. Everything else, including Watchdog, is anecdotal.

It may be that there is a problem, it may not. For now we don't know, we can only guess.

My 60GB PS3 is two and a bit years old and has never missed a beat. I have friends with both older and newer models. None of us have had any problems which suggests that not all Blu-Ray readers will fail in a year!

EDIT: Just read the figures posted earlier. These are a little better but not quite as scientific as I would hope for. For example, they talk about 16000 machines, but don't mention how many came from each group (or I couldn't find those details). They also don't comment on how the Wii would perform if it were left on longer.

 

[Sureboss]

They do stream in but only in the UK, its finished now anyway. Im sure it will be available on YouTube tomorrow and I will get it up when its available. They actually fixed them by putting the Motherboards in a special oven (what people try to do at home with 360's and hairdryer) to 'reflow' the solder.

Its a joke Sony charge over 100 pounds, even with the labour and postage. It took independent guys 30 mins per console to fix them and you get yours back will all your HDD content intact.



And I suppose your the type of consumer who believes everything officially stated is true then. Just look at the government, nearly all the figures they produce are total lies. If no one ever questioned things nothing would ever get sorted. I cannot believe that people still use the 'official figure' card.

It wouldnt be on TV if it was something major, plus even Watchdog acknowledge that what Sony admit and what is the truth is very different. I dont even have the YLOD but im so glad that this is getting out on to TV and hopefully more people will write to the BBC about it.

Robin.

No, I'm actually the type of consumer who has worked with Sony. The official figures are accurate of the consoles sent back to Sony with x problem. Of course consoles like yours, and other which have been fixed by 3rd parties aren't counted, but that's your choice, and not theirs.

I agree that if there are issues then it should be looked in to. A major product issue would result in a recall, but that won't happen because it happens to a tiny percentage of people. A percentage of those people affected will be partly to blame for damage caused due to a lack of care in maintenance and use of the console.

This pales in to insignificance in comparison to the MS and the 360's RROD.

As for how much Sony charge, well as mentioned by TM, UK consumer law pretty much dictates that no UK citizen should be paying for their PS3s to be repaired. At most someone will have had it for 3 years, which will still fall in to the Sale of Goods Act.

Anomalies will happen, it's an electronic product, it will fail at some point, unfortunately some get that before it should fail.

 

[Famine]

Oddly, I've found that people who have PS3s that have broken have more than one which has broken... I should add that these aren't the typical person who is careless with their kit - just that they have "more than one" broken PS3...


I should also add that the BBC are not renowned for their impartiality with regards to the PS3... It doesn't take much to uncover some "horror" stories about the console they've run even since before it was made.

 

[Custer85]

The PS3 my first console that died. I even have the SEGA Mastersystem 2, a Genesis (Megadrive 16bit), a PS1, a PS2 and a Gamecube and they are all alive, though i gave the gamecube away to my brother as well as my PS2.

Damn it there has never been a electronical device that died on me. My PC had some software issues with some drivers, but thats all.

edit: I stand corrected, a Playstation 2 died once. My brother moved it while it was running GTA San Andreas and the laser destroyed the DVD and the DVD drive.
I will get my PS3 back, pay 100 euro and i guess i will be fine for the rest of this generation. Hopefully the BluRay drive will last, since it seems to be a bit fragile on all PS3s.

*knockonwood*

Still the PS3 is my favourite console and it still has the lowest failurerate

 

[Sureboss]

Oddly, I've found that people who have PS3s that have broken have more than one which has broken... I should add that these aren't the typical person who is careless with their kit - just that they have "more than one" broken PS3...


I should also add that the BBC are not renowned for their impartiality with regards to the PS3... It doesn't take much to uncover some "horror" stories about the console they've run even since before it was made.

Your two still happy?

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

Two things:

1) Nearly everyone who posts online on a forum does NOT use their PS3 "regularly". We are the exception. We play on average around 10 hours a week or more.

2) If you are gullible enough to buy into the claims of Watchdog, then you honestly need to do some research for yourself.

 

[Scaff]

I should also add that the BBC are not renowned for their impartiality with regards to the PS3... It doesn't take much to uncover some "horror" stories about the console they've run even since before it was made.

Funny I was just about to post on that subject.

I did find it amusing that the piece was fronted by Iain Lee, who also wrote this article.....

http://tech.uk.msn.com/gaming/article.aspx?cp-documentid=7838134

....that the 'face' of this Watchdog piece is a self confessed Xbox fan and on MS's payroll is more than a little bit iffy.

The term 'conflict of interest' springs to mind.


Scaff

 

[yeti]

That entire article is one massive fanboy rant... with lots of opinion and no fact...

Iain Lee is employed on a freelance basis by Microsoft. The views in this column are those of the author and not of MSN or Microsoft.

Lame.

C.

 

[Blitz187]

Funny I was just about to post on that subject.

I did find it amusing that the piece was fronted by Iain Lee, who also wrote this article.....

http://tech.uk.msn.com/gaming/article.aspx?cp-documentid=7838134

....that the 'face' of this Watchdog piece is a self confessed Xbox fan and on MS's payroll is more than a little bit iffy.

The term 'conflict of interest' springs to mind.


Scaff

What a coincidence..

 

[FoolKiller]

Destructoid.com reviewed the show, and gives it a Fail.

http://www.destructoid.com/watchdog-attempts-to-humilitate-sony-fails-hard-149013.phtml

Watchdog attempts to humilitate Sony, fails hard
9:30 PM on 09.17.2009, Jim Sterling

Earlier today we talked about how UK TV show Watchdog was running a scathing feature on the alleged high failure rate of the PlayStation 3. In a bid to shame Sony, the show parked a branded van outside the company's UK headquarters, offering free PS3 repairs to anybody suffering from a so-called "yellow light of death."

Yeah, that failed pretty hard.

Watchdog filmed eleven users getting their PS3 repaired by a crack team. It was later revealed that the "experts" had ended their good deed with four of the PS3s completely inoperable. In addition, the show stated that "thousands and thousands" of PS3s were broken around the UK, and went so far as to X-ray a console to show "trapped gas" within it, failing to explain exactly what the gas was, why it was there, and how it affected the machine's operation.

The show was also fond of factual inaccuracies, claiming the PS3 costs £400 and that repairs would amount to a further £528, both of which aren't true. Sony itself declined to appear on the show due to the report's tone, amidst fears that its defense would simply be ridiculed. As we stated in our earlier story, however, Sony Europe's Ray Maguire refuted the show's claims in a six-page letter.

From the looks of things, the segment on Watchdog was poorly researched, blatantly innaccurate and simply not true. Sounds like the kind of thing I expect from the BBC these days.

GameIndustry.biz also says they fall flat:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/watchdogs-ps3-repairs-stunt-falls-flat-interview

Watchdog's PS3 repairs stunt falls flat
Matt Martin 21:13 (BST)17/09/2009

The BBC's flagship consumer show Watchdog has highlighted failure rates for the PlayStation 3 and the so-called 'yellow light of death', although attempts to fix consoles on behalf of disgruntled consumers backfired.

Watchdog established a repair team outside Sony's UK HQ earlier this month, complete with branded van, and filmed 11 users getting their consoles repaired for free. During the show tonight, it admitted four of those consoles repaired by "experts" were no longer working.

Earlier today Sony issued a six page report to GamesIndustry.biz defending technical and warranty support for the PlayStation 3 console, ahead of the Watchdog broadcast.

GamesIndustry.biz understands Sony declined to appear on the show due to concerns the tone of the programme would ridicule its defence and it would not receive fair treatment.

During the show, the report claimed the PlayStation 3 costs "£400" and with repair will total "£528" according to show presenter Anne Robinson, who also said "thousands upon thousands" had broken.

Also included in the segment was an x-ray of the PlayStation 3 showing "trapped gas", although no explanation of this was offered.

Sony's UK MD Ray Maguire said earlier today that of all the faults reported to Sony's customer complaints and warranty database, yellow light issues account for "less than one half of one per cent of units."

Sony's warranty for the PlayStation 3 is for one year since purchase, and repairs for any faults after that cost GBP 128.

Although the BBC report lacked credibility, Sony will be unhappy with any bad press in a month that has seen PlayStation 3 sales turn a corner following the release of a new model console and a lowering of the retail price.

Maybe Watchdog should have consulted actual games journalists/industry experts before doing this?

 

[Blitz187]

Looks like that show is a complete fluke and with the link Scaff posted I seem to see why...

 

[Robin]

I think Watchdog could have done a slighty better job on this and should have dedicated more of the show to this issue as well as getting a wider variety of experts. They kind of set themselves up for the show to be laughed at by Sony because they didnt go into enough detail.

They should have at least done the following...

Spoken to a variety of retailers and asked how many had been returned or had problems. Im talking hundreds of shops at least.

Asked that engineering firm that xrayed the console to explain what trapped gas was doing in the chip and how it could affect its running.

Had them go through the entire console components in detail and identify potential problems in its design. Go into deep detail.

Run a test heating the console up and seeing whether the solder starts to melt under normal temps which would be easy to do with specialist equipment.

Had more than 3 people on the show and not mock them like Ann did! And not have some young guys in a van (made it look very cowboy-ish).

Even with these extra things it would still do little to convince people of this issue.

I think its because Watchdog doesnt have the resources and can't be bothered with this issue because the majority of the public still sees gaming as a silly thing to even care about. They would spend more time investigating something like travel opperators etc..

Watchdog filmed eleven users getting their PS3 repaired by a crack team. It was later revealed that the "experts" had ended their good deed with four of the PS3s completely inoperable.

That more than anything shows there is an inherant design flaw in the launch consoles. If Sony fixes your console it is likely to last just as long as what those guys did in the van.

The show was also fond of factual inaccuracies, claiming the PS3 costs £400 and that repairs would amount to a further £528, both of which aren't true.

They both ARE true, this issue is about launch machines only and that was the price the people in question paid (actually some paid even higher).

Sony itself declined to appear on the show due to the report's tone, amidst fears that its defense would simply be ridiculed. As we stated in our earlier story, however, Sony Europe's Ray Maguire refuted the show's claims in a six-page letter.

The didnt show up because they know there are issues with the fat PS3 and want to sweep it all under the carpet for the slims launch. The fact they wrote a 6 page letter in responce shows the BBC stepped on a raw nerve, Sony is in denial.

But it all doesnt matter because the fat PS3 is obsolete to them anyway so little wil come off this. At least it got on TV.

Robin.