PS3 to lose (yet another feature)

[FoolKiller]

So how much did you pay for it?

$599.99 as part of a PlayStation 3 console.

And for those who specifically purchased YDL to install it on their PS3, they would have paid an additional $99.99 at the time of launch.

Can you show me that it has lost value because of the removal of other os?

Less functional = less value. I am not even talking about hard to grasp production and market business concepts here that only make sense in board rooms with 1,000 page reports from the accounting department. If the timer functionality on a microwave quit working would you argue that the microwave has the exact same value as before because it can still heat food?

Do you really not grasp this?

The artlicle didn't say anything about it being a class-action suit.

I am probably aware because I looked further into the situation before commenting on it.

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2010/04...other-os”-ps3-feature-spurs-class-action-suit

Sony’s decision to remove the “Install Other OS” feature from its PlayStation 3 via an April 1 firmware update has resulted in a class action suit filed against the electronics giant.

Anthony Ventura filed the complaint in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California on April 27. The complaint labels the disablement of the feature. "... not only a breach of the sales contract between Sony and its customers and a breach of the covenant of good faith and fair dealing, but it is also an unfair and deceptive business practice perpetrated on millions of unsuspecting consumers.”

The suit is brought on behalf of all consumers who purchased a PS3 between November 17, 2006 and March 27, 2010. Ventura bought his PS3 “in or around” July 2007 for $499.00 and claimed that he did so because of the now removed feature.

The complaint alleges that Sony promoted the “Install Other OS” feature as a selling point of the console, which helped to “distinguish the PS3 from other gaming consoles.” It was also pointed out that the PS3, with a retail price of $599.00, was “the most expensive gaming console available… in part because it is capable of far more than merely playing games at home.”

Also featured in the complaint are a variety of quotes from Sony executives touting the PS3 as more than a console, including one from the “Father of the PlayStation 3” himself, Ken Kutaragi, who said about the PS3, “It is clearly a computer.”

The complaint notes that users are technically not forced to install the firmware update that disables the “Install Other OS” feature, but that not doing so effectively cripples the console, eliminating the ability to play games online to access the PlayStation Network or to play new Blu-Ray discs.

Ventura has chosen not to update his PS3.

The plaintiff seeks “appropriate remedies” for all class members, including “restitution and disgorgement of all profits unjustly retained by Sony.

And scanned through the actual complaint found here (PDF).

Complaint

Class Action

Demand Jury Trial

And it goes on to talk about the class of people the suit is brought on behalf of.

And it also manages to list quotes from Sony executives, like of Ken Kutaragi and Phil Harrison, from before the system's launch talking about how it is a computer and how they fully look to have individuals developing things for the PS3 from the on-board Linux applications. In other words, marketing comments from events like E3 that were intended to sell the console.

It also refers to this interview about the new PS3 Slim:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...our-questions-about-the-new-playstation-3.ars

Why was the ability to install Linux removed from the system?

"There are a couple of reasons. We felt we wanted to move forward with the OS we have now. If anyone wants to use previous models and change the OS, they can do so." Koller said. "We wanted to standardize our OS."

Which wouldn't be a bad thing.

Again, I don't agree with the removal of Other OS, but this lawsuit is just stupid.

These two statements don't mesh. You cannot challenge the interpretation of a law, or even the justness of a law, without a legal court challenge. That is how you start that discussion. Unless you can get a politician to listen to you over a lobbyist, this is the only way individual citizens have to challenge the law and/or its interpretation.


But aside from that, why do you think it is stupid? I have now linked you to the complaint so you can actually read it and see the case he is making.

 

[Northstar]

$599.99 as part of a PlayStation 3 console.

And for those who specifically purchased YDL to install it on their PS3, they would have paid an additional $99.99 at the time of launch.

So how much of the $600 went towards Other OS? I don't see how you can put an actual "claim of loss" without being able to provide the actual price of a feature.

It's not Sony's fault people bought YDL, they had the option to and chose to spend $100.

Less functional = less value. I am not even talking about hard to grasp production and market business concepts here that only make sense in board rooms with 1,000 page reports from the accounting department. If the timer functionality on a microwave quit working would you argue that the microwave has the exact same value as before because it can still heat food?

Do you really not grasp this?

Can you please come up with an analogy that works?

A clock on a microwave is vital for it's main purpose where Other OS doesn't have any affect what so ever on the PS3's main function.

So once again, I ask, show me exactly where the PS3 has gone down in value specifically because of the loss of other OS. Not some crappy analogy.

 

[Terronium-12]

It's not Sony's fault people bought YDL, they had the option to and chose to spend $100.

Seeing as it was touted as a launch feature, and has been said many times that it wouldn't be negated from the feature list it most certainly is their fault.

A clock on a microwave is vital for it's main purpose where Other OS doesn't have any affect what so ever on the PS3's main function.

You know my analogy, but I'll use it again; if you decide to not upgrade (as in you wish to maintain the OtherOS feature you're so rightfully entitled to) you lose all of those other features because you can't connect to the internet without it bombarding you asking to update - so it's either keep one feature and never be able to use anything related to online functionality again, or upgrade and use something that was, again, a launch feature and is being taken away from you because Sony decides it wants to worry about "security" this late in the game.

So once again, I ask, show me exactly where the PS3 has gone down in value specifically because of the loss of other OS. Not some crappy analogy.

Read above. Also, you'll notice that when you take something away from a paying customer you encourage them to just not give a damn anymore, which is why you've got programmers undoing what Sony has done out of arrogance. You can say what you want about Microsoft (no, this isn't directed toward anyone in general), but they're not even that arrogant to negate a feature that they've talked so highly of. If anything, they'd just add to it or just prevent something from impacting the console itself. To take it away is the same as flipping someone off and saying "I've already got your money, so your opinion no longer matters."

This is why the PS3 is in third place, and well in third at that.

 

[FoolKiller]

So how much of the $600 went towards Other OS? I don't see how you can put an actual "claim of loss" without being able to provide the actual price of a feature.

To reach a settlement of that exact nature Sony would have to be subpoena'd to reveal their individual development costs. But to say there is no claim of loss because I, or anyone else who sees the problem here, lack access to Sony's proprietary data is just being ridiculous. One less feature is a lost feature, and a lost feature has some form of value.

Are you going to deny that some portion of my money did not go toward Other OS? Or will you admit that there is some value dedicated toward it, which I cannot estimate without the ability to view Sony's internal documents?

It's not Sony's fault people bought YDL, they had the option to and chose to spend $100.

True, but Sony also had their own site linking you to retailers in order to use it with the PlayStation 3. They encouraged people to spend their money on YDL in order to use it on the PS3 and then removed the ability later.

Can you please come up with an analogy that works?

A clock on a microwave is vital for it's main purpose where Other OS doesn't have any affect what so ever on the PS3's main function.

I did give an analogy that works, you read it wrong. Never once did I say clock.

But to make it work better, stop watch functionality on a wrist watch. The main purpose of a wrist watch is to tell time. The stop watch is unnecessary for that, but some people specifically buy the one with a stop watch on it because they want the ability to use that feature. Some people specifically bought a PS3 because of its many additional features that other consoles didn't have.

So once again, I ask, show me exactly where the PS3 has gone down in value specifically because of the loss of other OS. Not some crappy analogy.

Without internal Sony documents I cannot give you an exact figure, I am sorry. But since pointing out having less functionality is blatantly less valuable (Is it really that hard of a concept?) I ask you to show me how it hasn't. How does something with less functionality, that was advertised and promoted as something much more than its main component, not lost value?


By the way, I am still waiting on answers to these three questions.

But aside from that, why do you think it is stupid? I have now linked you to the complaint so you can actually read it and see the case he is making.

You think something that does less than it did when you paid for it has equal value (resell value is purely subjective) to when it was first purchased?

Would you be saying the same things if it was something like digital music playback, or if they removed PS2 compatibility from older models?