PS3 to lose (yet another feature)

  • Thread starter Thread starter magburner
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I think you'll find - but I can't guarantee this - that you are only loaning the PS3... In the user agreement - I've got a feeling that the PS3 remains the property of Sony.

C.

The console itself is your property, the OS however is still property of Sony.
 
The console itself is your property, the OS however is still property of Sony.
One of my issues with IP law is that I will accept that Sony owns the IP, but I shouldn't be afraid that my individual copy of that software will be altered or changed from the functionality I paid for because Sony wants to claim their IP allows them to reach into my home (virtually) and alter it.
 
Well - they can't alter it without your agreement...

(I agree that they can force your hand to agree if you want to keep using it!)

C.
 
Other features the PS3 has lost over time:

PS2 emulation. First in hardware, then in software.
SACD support
Flash card reader
2 usb ports
Now, 3rd party OS install

Look on the bright side. Features the PS3 has gained over time

PlayStation Home
3D Gaming
3D Blu ray
PlayTV
PlayStation Eye
Media Streaming
Trophy support
DualShock 3 Controller
Bluetooth Headset
Video Store
Catch up TV in Europe
PSP Minis

Obviously the PS3 has gained more features than its lost. So what are the big complaints for?
 
Most of those things require some other purchase to make them work so I wouldnt call that added functionality, its a advert for you to spend more money. Yet Other OS and the other features lost were free / included features that offered lots of functionality.

3D Gaming - You need an expensive new TV and glasses.
3D Blu Ray - Same
PlayTV - Have to buy the box, quite poorly recieved and doesnt work unless the console is on which is a total fail.
Playstation Eye - Have to buy it.
DualShock 3 - Should have been there from the start, Sony said it was old technology :lol: and you have to buy it if you got a Sixaxis.
Bluetooth Headset - Have to buy.
Video Store - Spend more money.
Catch Up TV - could be done before that update anyway through the web broswer.
PSP Minis - $
and the future Playstation Move - $$$

Yet simple things like cross game chat still havent been implemented, I dont know why they waste their time with 'nothing to do with gaming updates' like Facebook and photo albums. Who needs these things! If the PS3 is going to make it big it needs to be more of a console and less of a media centre (which is already was in the begining).

I would have kept my console at FW 1.30 or whatever it had if I could have. Seriously.

Robin.
 
Look on the bright side. Features the PS3 has gained over time

PlayStation Home
3D Gaming
3D Blu ray
PlayTV
PlayStation Eye
Media Streaming
Trophy support
DualShock 3 Controller
Bluetooth Headset
Video Store
Catch up TV in Europe
PSP Minis

Obviously the PS3 has gained more features than its lost. So what are the big complaints for?

You should work for Apple.
 
Obviously the PS3 has gained more features than its lost. So what are the big complaints for?

The possibilities of OtherOS/Linux are nearly endless if someone implements them (with the exception of serious 3D games).

You could do what you want independent of what the vendor provides.
Sadly development on the OtherOS side was below expectations.
 
Look on the bright side. Features the PS3 has gained over time

PlayStation Home meh
3D Gaming most people don't have a TV capable of this
3D Blu ray " "
PlayTV huh?
PlayStation Eye never had any desire for this
Media Streaming mine doesn't like my network, but I'll give you this one
Trophy support OMG ACHIEVEMENTS!!!11
DualShock 3 Controller ok
Bluetooth Headset I've used a BT headset since day one. It never gained this.
Video Store pfft
Catch up TV in Europe
PSP Minis

Obviously the PS3 has gained more features than its lost. So what are the big complaints for?

Gaining features that require you to give Sony hundreds or thousands of dollars isn't really something I look for.
 
Ok heres what I want to know:

I haven't updated my ps3 for the simple fact that I'm waiting for a nice Hard-drive to put in. Then install other OS on the new much bigger HD (640gb).

If we did update, isnt there a restore feature? Like restoring from the point I first bought it? Dec '06
In a perfect world I would drop in a 1TB SSD then install another OS, but 1TB SSD's are probably 2-3 years from now.
 
No, I think the update changed the firmware which won't be turned back with the restore feature. If you want other OS you shouldn't update. However not doing so, removes the whole online function of the console.
 
See?

This is the entire basis of my argument against games these days. It's about everything else but the goddamn game itself. Why do I need a web browser? Why do I need Facebook and Twitter functionality?

I could give a rat's ass (pardon the language :p) about any of that. I have a computer for the internet, and I could care less about FB and Twitter anyway. If you want sometihng that has the same functionality as a computer, then for crying out loud, buy a darn computer. I brought the PS3 because of the games, not to read comic books, or to walk around a virtual mall. :odd:
 
Why? I don't get it.:confused:

I would say misleading marketing. I won't go through all your list (someone already pointed out your discrepancies), but how can you qualify "Bluetooth Headset" as a gained feature? I've used a bluetooth headset on my unit since the day I bought it.
 
That guy is just wasting his, as well as taxpayers money.👎:grumpy:

Plus, there is no actual financial loss from the removal of Other OS, so I don't see how he is claiming $5mil.

I don't agree with them taking it away(even though I never used it), but they do have a right to protect their IP.
 
That guy is just wasting his, as well as taxpayers money.👎:grumpy:

Plus, there is no actual financial loss from the removal of Other OS, so I don't see how he is claiming $5mil.

I don't agree with them taking it away(even though I never used it), but they do have a right to protect their IP.

The problem with that it was advertised as a feature from the get-go, to worry about any possible problem at this point is beyond careless. It took you about 4+ years to realize there was a potential window for something like that? So, their just essentially taking away a function many people have used, and are "replacing" it with Facebook and other crap. Please.

Patching it isn't going to do jack either (as already proven) if a programmer is competent they'll just find a new hole and replace the feature that was taken away, so, at the end of the day Sony loses both ways...and I don't feel the least bit of sorry for them. Next time I'm sure they'll be weary to say (and smugly at that) that "The next generation starts with...."
 
Like I said, I don't agree with the removal of Other OS, but I don't see how this lawsuit will go anywhere besides the "failed frivolous lawsuit" drawer. Maybe if they had included it in the Slim models there would be a case, but it wasn't. So it may have been "advertised" at launch, but it wasn't advertised(or even included) in the latest version of the console.
 
Like I said, I don't agree with the removal of Other OS, but I don't see how this lawsuit will go anywhere besides the "failed frivolous lawsuit" drawer. Maybe if they had included it in the Slim models there would be a case, but it wasn't. So it may have been "advertised" at launch, but it wasn't advertised(or even included) in the latest version of the console.

I get what you're saying, and I'll tend to agree with it...but the bigger problem is if you are one of the people who have chosen not to upgrade, you'll never be able to sign into PSN again (unless you take a bullet and upgrade) so, that's several other features lost simultaneously while trying to keep one.

It's a double-edged sword, and you're being cut no matter what side you choose.
 
I get what you're saying, and I'll tend to agree with it...but the bigger problem is if you are one of the people who have chosen not to upgrade, you'll never be able to sign into PSN again (unless you take a bullet and upgrade) so, that's several other features lost simultaneously while trying to keep one.

It's a double-edged sword, and you're being cut no matter what side you choose.

I would say if he has any chance on winning(which is extremely little), he will have to make this his main argument. Not sure on what his strategy is though so we will have to wait and see.
 
Plus, there is no actual financial loss from the removal of Other OS, so I don't see how he is claiming $5mil.
No financial loss? I sell you a fruit basket with four apples, three oranges, two pears, and a pomegranate for $10. The next day I come back and take the pomegranate out, explaining that it draws fruit flies and in order to protect my reputation as a quality produce seller I have to remove the pomegranate ad give you no money in return.

When you tell me you want the pomegranate I say that is fine but I have to take the rest of the basket then in order to protect my reputation.

You paid $10 for 10 fruits. Then I give you a choice between having nine fruits or one, but you get no money back. That is a financial loss of assets for you. They aren't liquid (cash) assets but it is a financial loss because you were not recompensed for the fruit I took away.


As for how he gets $5 million: It is a class action lawsuit, so that means that everyone who had a PS3 that originally came with Other OS can opt in to the lawsuit. So, he is basically taking the estimated value lost of the Other OS feature and multiplying it by however many fat PS3s that have been sold. Honestly, it looks like he is calculating less than $1 per console.

Judging by that, my guess is that they are attempting to force Sony to bring it back, rather than trying to make a cash grab.

I don't agree with them taking it away(even though I never used it), but they do have a right to protect their IP.
The question is: Should they have the right to negatively alter the functionality of a product they accepted money for years after the transaction?

Maybe if they had included it in the Slim models there would be a case, but it wasn't. So it may have been "advertised" at launch, but it wasn't advertised(or even included) in the latest version of the console.
This doesn't even make sense. Because some people bought a new version of a product with reduced functionality at a lower cost those who paid a higher cost for larger functionality don't have a legitimate complaint when their more expensive console begins to lose some of that functionality?

By that rationale it would be fine if PS2 compatible models lost that functionality too.



See, I think that everyone who doesn't see an issue would be singing a very different tune if this were something like DVD playback or something they do use.
 
DVD playback is one of the key PS3 marketing points however - otherOS is (was) not. That comparison doesn't quite work for that exact reason.
 
DVD playback is one of the key PS3 marketing points however - otherOS is (was) not. That comparison doesn't quite work for that exact reason.
You are right:
DSC_2097.JPG


And that makes it a feature I didn't pay for how? That changes the fact that I knew the feature existed before the PS3 launched, meaning someone talked the feature up, how?

Of course, one could understand my confusion about the difference between "key" features and just regular features, especially when even the manual says:
it was fully intended that you, a PS3 owner, could play games, watch movies, view photos, listen to music, and run a full-featured Linux operating system that transforms your PS3 into a home computer.

So, back to may example, remove mp3 support. Not a "key" marketing point.
 
No financial loss? I sell you a fruit basket with four apples, three oranges, two pears, and a pomegranate for $10. The next day I come back and take the pomegranate out, explaining that it draws fruit flies and in order to protect my reputation as a quality produce seller I have to remove the pomegranate ad give you no money in return.

When you tell me you want the pomegranate I say that is fine but I have to take the rest of the basket then in order to protect my reputation.

You paid $10 for 10 fruits. Then I give you a choice between having nine fruits or one, but you get no money back. That is a financial loss of assets for you. They aren't liquid (cash) assets but it is a financial loss because you were not recompensed for the fruit I took away.

Fruit=Physical thing (As in you have legal ownership)
Other OS= A feature of software (Still technically the developers property)

Again, how exactly are customers losing money out of the removal of other OS? It's not like the resell value has gone down anymore than it would have even with Other OS.

I also don't see how this class action lawsuit will bring the feature back, chances are the court will just wind up backing Sony.
 
Actually installing Linux is damn simple these days even on PS3. You just partition the hard drive and download a bootloader from anywhere and stick in a YDL or other distro burned disk. Its like installing windows.

Many computers are also sold with Linux installed, with the likes of Ubuntu its very easy to use so in no way do you need to be into computer and programming to use it. Your thinking of the command line days of Linux.



People just wanted what they were given, which was both a games console and a media centre, nothing less.

Sony is actually making it more of a multi media centre, with all these 'nothing to do with gaming' updates its clear that if someone wants a console totally focused on games Sony don't share the same priorities. I wish they would focus more on the gaming element and not mess around with or take away other non gaming features.

Robin.

You just don't get it. The future of gaming consoles are/is media centers. Sony 'like Microsoft' want to control the whole house, not just the living room or work station. It's worth alot more to these companies then just being a game console.
 
but how can you qualify "Bluetooth Headset" as a gained feature? I've used a bluetooth headset on my unit since the day I bought it.

Apologies, my mistake. I'm pretty sure that here in New Zealand, the offical bluetooth headset for PS3 was NOT available on PS3 launch day.:)
 
Remove mp3 support and people will simply convert their music to wma or aac. :p
Change MP3 to digital music. I am pretty sure you get my point and are just trying to mess with me now.

Fruit=Physical thing (As in you have legal ownership)
Other OS= A feature of software (Still technically the developers property)
It is a simplified example to point out the situation. One less feature is the software equivalent of one less fruit. A feature that I paid for. A feature they are now taking away without compensation.

I have said it before, the question is more about whether they should be allowed to call it their property to this degree. If I have zero rights to the individual copy of the software contained within the machine I purchased then nothing, other than consumer backlash, stops Sony from wiping my firmware when the PS4 comes out. Just because Sony has interpreted IP law to this degree does not make their legal interpretation correct (and now a court will determine that), and even if it is correct it doesn't necessarily make it just. Legal interpretations can be wrong. Legal activities can still be unjust.

Again, how exactly are customers losing money out of the removal of other OS? It's not like the resell value has gone down anymore than it would have even with Other OS.
You seriously think this? You think something that does less than it did when you paid for it has equal value (resell value is purely subjective) to when it was first purchased?

Would you be saying the same things if it was something like digital music playback, or if they removed PS2 compatibility from older models?

I also don't see how this class action lawsuit will bring the feature back, chances are the court will just wind up backing Sony.
Assuming that Sony feels like paying for the costs of letting it go to court, and the negative mainstream publicity that will accompany any media coverage of Sony being sued for taking away features people paid for (whether you agree with that does not matter in the world of public relations). Many class action lawsuits are not about a court trial. They are about forcing a company to settle out of court in some way to avoid costs and negative PR. Class action lawsuits come and go on a regular basis and you never hear about them because they never make it to trial.

Do you really think Sony wants everyone across the country to see TV ads by this law firm that say, "Have you or anyone you known purchased a PlayStation 3 from November of 2006 through October of 2009? If so you may be entitled to a settlement in a lawsuit that alleges Sony removed paid-for functionality from the PlayStation 3 console without due compensation. If you or anyone you know purchased a PlayStation 3 within this time frame please call our law firm before it is too late at the number on your screen. Don't miss out on the money you deserve."

If Sony doesn't respond the way the guy wants this lawsuit has the potential to point out Sony's action outside of gaming blogs. And if a full trial occurs then it could possibly lead to a full legal discussion on how far IP law allows companies to go. If there is any risk that this could say that Sony over-stepped their bounds then other companies will even pressure Sony to back down.

Apologies, my mistake. I'm pretty sure that here in New Zealand, the offical bluetooth headset for PS3 was NOT available on PS3 launch day.:)
The official headset wasn't but the PS3 worked with practically any bluetooth headset from day one, and still does.
 
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It is a simplified example to point out the situation. One less feature is the software equivalent of one less fruit. A feature that I paid for. A feature they are now taking away without compensation.

So how much did you pay for it?


You seriously think this? You think something that does less than it did when you paid for it has equal value (resell value is purely subjective) to when it was first purchased?

Can you show me that it has lost value because of the removal of other os?


Do you really think Sony wants everyone across the country to see TV ads by this law firm that say, "Have you or anyone you known purchased a PlayStation 3 from November of 2006 through October of 2009? If so you may be entitled to a settlement in a lawsuit that alleges Sony removed paid-for functionality from the PlayStation 3 console without due compensation. If you or anyone you know purchased a PlayStation 3 within this time frame please call our law firm before it is too late at the number on your screen. Don't miss out on the money you deserve."

The artlicle didn't say anything about it being a class-action suit.

article
Sony had pulled the plug from 'Other OS' feature in PlayStation 3 console with firmware 3.21 update that created quite a ruckus last month. Disappointed with that move, Anthony Ventura from California has filed a suit against Sony for "intentional disablement of the valuable functionality originally advertised as available" in the PlayStation 3 console, reported IGN. Lawsuit says that Sony's act of removing 'Other OS' support was more concerned with potential piracy.


However, Sony had clearly stated that the removal of Other OS feature was simply for security reasons. That didn't scare PS3 hackers as GeoHot demonstrated custom firmware for retaining 'Other OS' support on PS3.


The lawsuit states, "On information and belief, contrary to Sony's statement, the 'security concerns' did not involve a threat to PS3 users, but rather reflected Sony's concerns that the Other OS feature might be used by 'hackers' to copy and/or steal gaming and other content." The suit alleged Sony for violating California's Unfair Competition Law by restricting the PS3's functionalities via "forcing consumers to choose between the Other OS function and the Other Advertised Features impaired by Update 3.21."


Ventura seeks compensation and legal fees from this lawsuit but no fixed amount was mentioned. However, the suit does state that the amount in controversy is in excess of $5 million.

And if a full trial occurs then it could possibly lead to a full legal discussion on how far IP law allows companies to go.

Which wouldn't be a bad thing.

Again, I don't agree with the removal of Other OS, but this lawsuit is just stupid.
 

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