Scaff
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nikySort of... same as most of the physics discussions we've previously had... of which there are... tons.
My only addition: I've always thought the understeer a bit too much in GT4 till I went on my own trackday, after which I realized that there wasn't enough of it on some occasions. I came away from that trackday with a better appreciation of GT4's attention to detail and realistic depiction of road racing (not to be confused with street racing). I drove on track exactly as I drive on GT4... set-up early, brake in a straight line, trail brake slightly after the major braking is done if it's needed to set up the car (lack of absolute ABS means merely romping on the brakes will cause you to plow straight into the corner), wind the steering up and unwind slowly while easing into the throttle.
I've found realistic high-speed understeer, FF oversteer and FR understeer(yes, Virginia, it can happen), fishtailing and break-away in most cases. It's great to drive a lot of different cars back-to-back like I do in my testing articles, because it allows you to get a "feel" for the nuances of each car model... to see the differences that are there that aren't apparent at first. After learning to interpret the differences between cars, I double check my findings with magazine and internet reviews and they do seem to hold up. One conundrum for me was the 2005-2006 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT, which seemed too snappy and tail-happy in the game, while this trait wasn't touched on in most reviews... until I found one where the reviewers actually drove it in anger, and complained of... you guessed it... oversteer.
Drive on tracks like the Nurb or El Cap... practicing on these rougher surfaces helps you learn how to interpret and interpolate car movement from visual and audio cues such as screen shake, lean and tire squeal (very useful cue that... PD set tire squeal to start a little bit early to make up for the lack of Seat-Of-the-Pants sensation).
Additionally, in line with Slow's comments on feedback, with a DF controller, I found the increased bump-steer and kickback on tracks like the Nurb more informative, and the ability to feather the throttle and brakes effectively helps... a lot. With a good wheel, the car will sometimes try to wrestle the wheel out of your hands over bumps or in turns... pretty amazing in terms of feedback, but not having experienced the competition, I don't know how it stacks up.
Other problems, like lack of dynamic camber and tripod-ing or three-wheeling add an element of unreality or artificiality to the handling dynamic (which won't allow low speed maneuvers dependent on these traits), but it's good enough, otherwise. In comparison to other games... I haven't driven any of the other current sims, but I think Scaff has mentioned EPR makes high speed drifiting too easy. Apparently GTR is the only one that's patently better in all areas, but since my gaming computer burned down, I guess I won't know for a long while.
Well said, and can I say an excellent thread, with great contributions from all.
I quite agree with niky in regard to GT4's representation of understeer, track experience is realy the only way to understand the levels of understeer that can be experienced in a car. Road driving just does not push the limits of the tyres in the same way, no sane person would be pushing a car to the limits of both slip angle and percentage on the road. As a result you just do not get the same experience as on a track.
GT4 does suffer badly in some areas (which I have discussed in detail before) mainly in regard to lower speed physics, in situations such as handbrake turns and donuts. An area that is much better represented in Enthusia, however as niky mentioned, Enthusia has its own weak areas, with high speed drifts being one. Enthusia allows these to be caught and held to easily, for to long and recovered from as if helped by a hand from above.
I also have no real issue with the steering feel from GT4, yes it is different from other games, but almost all 'sims' of this type have a slightly different feel to them. However, even given this 03 yellow makes a very, very valid point about 'feeling' what the car is about to do. Something that is very difficult (and/or expensive) to do, Enthusia has its VGS system to help, GT4 has the early onset of tyre noise and the g-meter. Watching replays is however a very good tip, one that I use a lot when tuning a car, as it allows you to see how the car is reacting, in ways that you may not be able to feel. Very handy, particularly when it comes to damper settings.
Regards
Scaff