Racing School - Update - FF section and added Physics of Racing

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 5: Prologue' started by RussRobit, Nov 3, 2008.

  1. RussRobit

    RussRobit Premium

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    I'm starting this thread with the intention of creating a resource library for those who want to improve their DRIVING SKILLS.
    There are plenty of set-up threads and personal advice threads, so please limit posts and comments to published resources such as videos, books or web pages that aim to teach better driving skills.
    When you recommend a resource, feel free to give a small synopsis.
    I'll check this thread from time to time and compile a list in this first post.

    DRIVING SKILLS

    FRONT WHEEL DRIVE


    To start things off, here's an example of the type of information I'd like to compile.
    If you've never been to racing school, here's your chance. Learn how to find the fastest line around the track as well as proper braking and turning techniques.
    The video is in high quality, so it's broken up into 10 minute clips.
    Enjoy.

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    ADDITIONAL RESOURCES​


    VIDEOS:
    Going Faster / Video companion to the book. Teaches proper car placement, cornering, braking.
    Brands Hatch walkthrough with [WIKIPEDIA]Jonathan Palmer[/WIKIPEDIA] / Comments by panjandrum
    Nurburgring Orientation in a 1967 F1 car / Comments by panjandrum

    BOOKS:
    Going Faster / Companion book to the video. Delves deeper than the video can. Comments by Luxy Perfect Balance Imakuni
    Speed Secrets: / A series of six books aimed at making you the perfect driver.
    Secrets of Solo Racing by Henry A Watts / Comments by panjandrum

    WEB RESOURCES:
    Driving Fast / A web based tutorial complete with diagrams and video.
    High Performance Driving Tips / 24 tips from professional race driver [WIKIPEDIA]Ross Bentley[/WIKIPEDIA]
    Physics of Racing by Brian Beckman / An indepth study of the actual laws of physics governing the Race Car.
    Driver Instruction Manual by Historic Sportscar Racing, Ltd. Racing School / Comments by
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2009
    Inferno251 likes this.
  2. Luxy

    Luxy

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    The book that these videos are based on (Going Faster) is a great read, too. Definitely worth picking up and reading cover to cover :)
     
  3. Kryz11

    Kryz11 Premium

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    Great VIDEOS! I am still watching them. So far I feel like I can take on the world ;)
     
  4. NapoleonMikey

    NapoleonMikey

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    wow thanks for this and i think this should get stickied for all the new guys or at least a constant bumb to keep it up at the top so everyone can see it and improve there skills that much more.
     
  5. obi_one

    obi_one

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    good stuff :)
     
  6. Perfect Balance

    Perfect Balance Premium

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    The first 20 seconds of the video makes you want to not watch the entire thing.

    I've seen the whole video though, and it's crap compared to the book.
     
  7. MarinaDiamandis

    MarinaDiamandis Premium

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    The first video clip is very annoying. I think the book is a better source overall.
     
  8. JosVerstappen

    JosVerstappen

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    I usually don't worry too much about my racing lines, but more about my lap times :p

    just practice the track and you'll see your times going down....
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2008
  9. Perfect Balance

    Perfect Balance Premium

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    Worst sentence ever.
     
    fastone371 likes this.
  10. RussRobit

    RussRobit Premium

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    I agree Luxy, and there are a lot more inexpensive books at Amazon well worth a read also. :tup:

    And this is just the basics. :)

    I'm kinda hoping some of the newer guy's will watch it, more than once! :sly:

    Thanks. :)

    That is true, but the videos aren't exactly a waste of time.

    True again, but I think it helps to see the theories in action, in a real car.

    Hmmm. How do I answer this one? The racing line is what you practice. The better you stay on it, the lower your lap time will be.
     
  11. ultrataco

    ultrataco

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    +1000000
     
  12. ACE_N_RANDIE

    ACE_N_RANDIE

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    That is some useful information you compiled RussRobit. I've watched the first two videos so far and I'm sure other forum users will find it valuable as well. Thanks!
     
  13. panjandrum

    panjandrum

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    Hey Russ, it has been great racing with you the past few evenings.

    Thanks for the video posts. These are excellent, even for those of us who have already delved into this in book form.

    Maybe one of the moderators should start a sticky thread specific to "racing references", meaning only links or recommendations regarding professional racing guides, whether they be printed, video, audio etc? No personal advice, only links to professional advice...
     
  14. RussRobit

    RussRobit Premium

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    :tup:

    Yes, been fun racing you too. :)
    Good Idea, changed first post.
     
  15. BobElHat

    BobElHat

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    Do you have permission from the Skip Barber Racing School to redistribute their copyright materials?
     
  16. NapoleonMikey

    NapoleonMikey

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    im pretty sure if they havnt taken it off youtube by know that skip barber dosnt mind.
     
  17. BobElHat

    BobElHat

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    It's only been up for three days and I doubt SBRS have people checking 24/7. Even if they did, the videos aren't named or tagged with "Skip Barber" or "Going Faster" so they wouldn't find them with a search. I could be wrong and SBRS do allow distribution of their video, but I suspect that's not the case.
     
  18. NapoleonMikey

    NapoleonMikey

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    ok i didnt check youtube to see how long they have been up. i assumed he found them on youtube but i guess thats what i get for not checking. but as for SBRS not checking its not on them im thinking of. over the past several months/past year youtube has checked every movie uploaded to make sure it dosnt break any laws (ie. copy right and what not) or any site rules (ie. no pornography)
     
  19. kart racer

    kart racer

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    this needs a sticky.:)
     
  20. Nicksfix

    Nicksfix Premium

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    Some of RussRobits clips are also available in a video put out by Skip Barber,in this video there are numerous aids which can be applied to your racing technique , they help sharpen you up , very interesting video , I would recommend it for the " die hard racer "
     
  21. DTM

    DTM Premium

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    I watched the video’s with great interest and really enjoyed it. Helpt me understanding racing more.
    But video 9 isn’t available anymore, can somebody help getting it. And is there a way I can save them on my pc. Before the rest isn’t available anymore

    Thnx for posting it.:tup:
     
  22. Jump_Ace

    Jump_Ace Staff Emeritus

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    Great post +rep :) Great vids, nice to see a section on FF cars, that was cool. But most of it was pretty basic and common sense, I'd enjoy an advanced follow up rather than fundamentals that we all have been practicing for years, heheh. Thanks again!

    Jerome
     
  23. RussRobit

    RussRobit Premium

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    Hmmm, must have been a glitch. It's working fine now. :tup:

    By "advanced follow up", do you mean a focus on specific skills such as heel-toe shifting or trail braking?

    :tup:
     
  24. panjandrum

    panjandrum

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    994
    Here are a couple more things I've found useful:

    Secrets of Solo Racing by Henry A Watts (just Google it and you'll find it, I bought mine locally off the shelf at B&N, so it is easy to find).

    Although this book is about Autocross, which is somewhat different, consisting of lower-speeds but much tighter corners that what we see in GT5, I still found it very useful. Specifically it deals a lot with street/sports-car handling, whereas the racing guides deal mostly with race-car handling, which is usually quite different. This book covers things like dealing with understeer and oversteer in great detail. This book, along with "Speed Secrets - Professional Race Driving Techniques", are my two personal favorite racing guides.

    Also, here are a couple vids I put up on my YouTube site (as always, choose the high-quality version if your bandwidth supports it):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSbrokn-RVQ&feature=PlayList&p=26003F0107526D1F&index=1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnaiFpbbouQ&feature=PlayList&p=26003F0107526D1F&index=2

    Neither of them is a pure racing tutorial like the Going Faster series, but both of them are certainly useful for learning something about racing.

    The first is an extra from the greatest racing movie of all time "Grand Prix" with James Garner. Based in the "golden era" of racing, before huge money and technology changed the face of the sport (and, IMHO, pretty much ruined it...) Get the recently-released special-edition. Even though it is not technically a documentary, it is all based upon the actual racing of the era (and much of the race footage is from actual races). It will teach you a lot about real racing. In this extra however, what you'll see a specific course-walk (Brands Hatch). A lot of the variables that a driver must deal with are outlined. So a very instructional video.

    The second one is a fixed-up version of a partial lap of Nurburgring in cars of the same era. I can't find the full lap and don't know if it even exists any-longer. This one really isn't all that instructional except that it gives on orientation of Nurburgring, which those of you who have started racing Gran Turismo with GT5P probably haven't encountered yet, but eventually you'll have to, so start learning about it now! :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2008
  25. RussRobit

    RussRobit Premium

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    :tup: Thanks panjandrum. Book looks good, and I'm sure the vids will be helpful when we get the full game.
    Added to the list.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2008
  26. mu22stang

    mu22stang

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    I would assume since this is used for education purposes and not for profit purposes, they're okay to use. You don't have to get permission for things used for education.
     
  27. 57

    57

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    great post, i can tell i m braking shorter in the game already, i ll watch it again
     
  28. RussRobit

    RussRobit Premium

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    FRONT WHEEL DRIVE

    The biggest difference with a front wheel drive car is this. All the work is done by the front tires, steering, braking and acceleration. Therefore, it's very easy to overload them, causing a severe lack of traction.
    With front wheel drive you have to be very careful when accelerating in a corner. If you give it too much throttle, the weight transferring to the rear will cause you to surpass the front tires' traction limit and the result will be severe understeer (this is why almost all purposely built race cars are rear wheel drive). Be smooth, squeeze the throttle on until the wheels are somewhat straight, don't just mash it.
    Since a front-wheel-drive car has a tendency to understeer, it's important to trail brake a little more on corner entry. You may also have to use trailing throttle oversteer to control the understeer mid corner. This means lifting off, or trailing off the throttle to transfer weight forward, reducing understeer. You may also want to hit a slightly later apex, This will allow you to get the wheels straight sooner giving you more of the available traction for acceleration.
    With a rear wheel drive car you can kick the rear out by stabbing the throttle. If you try this with a front wheel drive car you will only create more understeer.
    If you find yourself in an oversteer situation in a front-wheel-drive car, steer into the slide and squeeze the throttle. The front wheels will pull you out of it.
    To help a front wheel drive car rotate in a corner you can add rear brake bias and a little +toe or toe out to the rear.

    Here are 2 video's showing front-wheel-drive techniques.
    Note: In these videos they demonstrate using the e-brake to help bring the rear around. I've tried this in GTP and I don't really recommend it. It seems to put you in neutral so you can't use the front to pull you around. You lose speed and hence, time.

     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2008
  29. RussRobit

    RussRobit Premium

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    Physics of Racing by Brian Beckman

    Physics of Racing is an indepth study of the actual physics involved in driving a race car and how it affects acceleration, stopping and turning. The link takes you to page where you will find both a pdf file and a doc file. It is also broken down into separate chapters in pdf format.

    Introduction to the PhORS articles
    By Brian Beckman​
    "I started this series in 1991 for my local racing club's printed newsletter. The web had just been born, though the Internet was not yet public. Nonetheless, I distributed the articles over the Internet at that time and they become reasonably well known, especially amongst the autocrossing community in the US. The first 13 parts were written in 1991, so they contain some very dated ideas, such as using Scheme for writing simulations. However, the entire series is presented here, as originally written. Perhaps at some later time I will consolidate and update the series, but for now, I am focusing on writing new parts. There are currently a number of 'live threads' in the discussion that I wish to pursue at length.

    My overall goal with the series is to present a fresh outlook on racing physics, understandable to the technically inclined non-specialist. The problems I consider come from a variety of sources. Often, they're motivated by computer simulation, and just as often they arise from competition experiences. Some of the later articles get very technical, but I always try to balance conceptual discussion, which everyone should be able to understand, with mathematical analysis, which might of interest only to specialists, and with numerical results, which, again, should be universally accessible.

    When I first started the series, I purposely avoided the standard reference sources, preferring to figure things out myself from first principles. In the past ten years, a number of superior source books, papers, and programs have become available, and it is no longer sensible for me to avoid them. I've had my fun, now it is time to 'get real.' So, in the later articles, I refer to the well known books by Milliken, Gillespie, Genta, and Carroll Smith; as well as to free simulation packages such as RARS, TORCS, and Racer.

    There is a tremendous amount of activity in racing simulation nowadays that computer hardware is fast enough to permit extremely detailed modelling of racing cars in real time. The realism of Grand-Prix Legends, for instance, was unimaginable in real time in 1991. Despite this growth, I continue to hope that the Physics of Racing series can fulfil its original dual roles of translating racing lore and craft into hardcore physics and of making that physics understandable to real-world working race drivers and teams.

    Finally, I wish to point out that these articles are FREE. I retain the copyright ONLY to prevent the kind of theft that would make the articles difficult to copy, meaning that I grant to everyone, everywhere a perpetual, transferable, universal, royalty-free license to copy, host, post, translate, convert, transform, and reproduce the articles in any form whatever, asking only that the content and attribution not be changed and that the rights of anyone, anywhere to further copy the articles not be restricted, say, by charging money for copies."
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2008
  30. Logic

    Logic

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    This is a very good thread. Thank you for all that have dug this information up and offered their thoughts on the subject. It is a wonderful resource to have here.