Racing Soft Problem

[GTLeigh]

I normally keep my cars completely stock, only doing the oil change when I buy them, and this is how I enjoy the game. I don't even change the tyres or the engine chip.

However, every now and again for fun I buy another copy of a car I own and put all the mods on it I can, apart from tyres, just to do time trials around Brands Hatch.

Anyway, I did this last night with the Elise 111R and put on all mods apart from engine tune 3 and turbo 3. For the first time ever I also fitted Racing Soft tyres to see what difference it would make to my lap times.

I was in shock, the car was totally awful to drive and I thought that I'd ruined the car and made an expensive mistake. The car would over steer very badly and when I tried to correct it I just span out, also the car would veer violently to the right when braking. It took me about 5 laps just to run a clean lap on a track I know very well.

I then changed back to the stock tyres which are sports hard and kept all other mods on the car. I then did a time trail on Brands Hatch and the car was a pleasure to drive, a bit twitchy here and there but all the same it was very enjoyable.

This completely surprised me, I would have thought that the Racing Softs would have made it easier to drive but the fact was they completely destroyed the car.

So my question is, is this normal? Does this happen to other cars or is this just a problem with the Lotus or is it due to the fact I put them on a street car?

One this for sure I will probably think again before trying them again.

Sorry if this sounds like a newbie post but I've not experienced this before from GT2 to present.

 

[iainoflo85]

So my question is, is this normal? Does this happen to other cars or is this just a problem with the Lotus or is it due to the fact I put them on a street car?

Street cars need a special tune to perform well on Racing tyres. It's just the way GT6 is.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

@GTLeigh
Yes the problems you explain are a common problem.

The easiest way I found to resolve the issues you explained are to put racing medium on front and keep the racing soft on rear. There is something wrong with the coding when you have racing soft on front. It somehow makes the rear tires leave the ground on hard braking. Especially AWD and FWD cars. Hope this helps.

 

[veryferry]

Why do you buy a copy of a car while you have 3 slots to save changes in per car?

 

[KinLM]

Why do people approach this as a bug?

It's not like you can just fit super sticky tires to cars in real life and have perfect handling. There's a reason why race cars are tuned so much.

Tires are not just grip multipliers. They were treated this way in GT5. Now in GT6, there is a much better tire model. I really like it. It isn't broken though

 

[sparkytooth]

Racing Soft Tyres.....

 

[FussyFez]

They seem to give so much grip, that the slightly oversteery elise turned into a turn in monster.

This happens with all the cars really. If it wants to turn naturally on sports, or RH, then RS will make it so responsive that the tiniest of inputs has a huge response.


You need to tune for extreme stability if you want to see any drivability at the limit.

Pointy cars are turned into missiles and understeery cars tend to go very fast, but ultimately they won't be as quick as the Pointy car with a good driver.

The window for correction is tiny once past the limit.

I don't use RS on anything except the Redbull fan cars.

 

[GTLeigh]

Cheers guys, I didn't know there was a problem as I'd never used them prior to last night.

Why do you buy a a copy of a car while you have 3 slots to save changes in per car?

The reason I do this is that I want to differentiate between tuned cars and stock cars in my garage, when I tune a car up I also paint it sublime green with vitamin C wheels (I know it sounds awful but I can see instantly which cars I have tuned). I know I could change the settings in the slots but I really like to just keep the car completely stock and not alter them at all, it's just the way I do it.

Why do people approach this as a bug?

It's not like you can just fit super sticky tires to cars in real life and have perfect handling. There's a reason why race cars are tuned so much.

Tires are not just grip multipliers. They were treated this way in GT5. Now in GT6, there is a much better tire model. I really like it. It isn't broken though

I didn't think it was a bug or broken, just that I'd never experienced this before and I thought it was a bit weird. I did think that it was due to putting racing tyres on a street car but I wasn't too sure, hence why I asked the question. Although thinking about it, it makes sense that they would only work properly on race cars.

As I said I don't alter my cars usually so when I do I just buy parts and fit them, I wouldn't have a clue how to fine tune them.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Why do people approach this as a bug?

It's not like you can just fit super sticky tires to cars in real life and have perfect handling. There's a reason why race cars are tuned so much.

Tires are not just grip multipliers. They were treated this way in GT5. Now in GT6, there is a much better tire model. I really like it. It isn't broken though

There is for sure a well known bug with racing soft tires. There is no reason cars should be doing a stoppie just because racing soft tires are applied. There is a huge difference between cars that need tuning, and an obvious bug in the game.

 

[ace004]

My theory on it is that car found too much grip on the front tires and it's overwhelming the rears. Tune for it. I have seen this happen many times with my own cars, from street cars to race cars. Try conventional tuning, because front grip is a good thing. On some cars where it just keeps on oversteering after standard tuning try slowly adding front camber.

 

[Vagabond]

It's not like you can just fit super sticky tires to cars in real life and have perfect handling.

Nonsense. That is exactly what happens when you fit racing tyres to a road car and I have no idea why anyone would think otherwise, even if they haven't tried it. The racing tyres in GT6 are quite bizarre and that's the reality of it I'm afraid.

 

[nissman]

I think people should get some experiance driving on racing softs before they make a thread about how buggy the tyres are.

Racing tyres are made for race cars. Like GT500, DTM, GT3, etc. These cars feel as they should on racing tyres. I fine tuned my GT500 Honda HSV for racing softs and the car feels great, goes exactly where I want it to go. There is nothing wrong with racing tyres you just must know when to use them and on which car.

 

[Vagabond]

I think people should get some experience driving on racing softs before they make a thread about how buggy the tyres are.

Racing tyres are made for race cars. Like GT500, DTM, GT3, etc. These cars feel as they should on racing tyres. I fine tuned my GT500 Honda HSV for racing softs and the car feels great, goes exactly where I want it to go. There is nothing wrong with racing tyres you just must know when to use them and on which car.

I have a fair amount of experience on both and 2 and 4 wheels, so I have no idea where this myth originates. Racing tyres are for racing and there are many race series consisting of stripped out road cars with roll cages, stiffer springs, beefed up brakes and no downforce. The biggest part of my own experience on track was in a Caterham 7, which was also completely road legal. The difference in handling between road and racing tyres is immense - stability under braking, mid-corner grip, and traction is rock solid and going back to road tyres again feels like you've fitted sponges to the car instead of tyres.

Also, many mere mortals take their own every-day cars to track days with a spare set of wheels with racing slicks on - when fitted they give the car perfect grip and traction and don't suddenly turn them into death traps, undriveable by mere mortals. On even an average car, you can gain 3 or more seconds a lap doing this without being an experienced racing driver.

The racing tyres in GT6 are in some way wrong. Given the problems with the game's gravity and inertia, its difficult to say exactly what is wrong but believe me, they are not realistic.

 

[GTLeigh]

I think people should get some experiance driving on racing softs before they make a thread about how buggy the tyres are.

I wasn't saying how buggy they were, just describing the problem I had experienced the first time I had used them and to see if others had experienced this also.

 

[KinLM]

Nonsense. That is exactly what happens when you fit racing tyres to a road car and I have no idea why anyone would think otherwise, even if they haven't tried it. The racing tyres in GT6 are quite bizarre and that's the reality of it I'm afraid.

..And most cars in the game are fine with racing tires. But some are not. I don't see how this can be explained if the tires are at fault.

Also, tires are definitely not just grip multipliers. Most of the people I talk to at track days who use slicks also have upgraded suspension to try and help accommodate the sticky tires.

 

[nissman]

I have a fair amount of experience on both and 2 and 4 wheels, so I have no idea where this myth originates. Racing tyres are for racing and there are many race series consisting of stripped out road cars with roll cages, stiffer springs, beefed up brakes and no downforce. The biggest part of my own experience on track was in a Caterham 7, which was also completely road legal. The difference in handling between road and racing tyres is immense - stability under braking, mid-corner grip, and traction is rock solid and going back to road tyres again feels like you've fitted sponges to the car instead of tyres.

Also, many mere mortals take their own every-day cars to track days with a spare set of wheels with racing slicks on - when fitted they give the car perfect grip and traction and don't suddenly turn them into death traps, undriveable by mere mortals. On even an average car, you can gain 3 or more seconds a lap doing this without being an experienced racing driver.

The racing tyres in GT6 are in some way wrong. Given the problems with the game's gravity and inertia, its difficult to say exactly what is wrong but believe me, they are not realistic.

I was more refering how I feel racing tyres act in GT6. Don't have many experiance in real life racing except 4 laps on the Nordschleife with my Honda Civic on road tyres. So I can't really compare GT to real life.

I do agree racing tyres in GT6 are not realisitc but it gets even worse if you put them on a road car as the Lotus Elise. That was my main point here. Member that made this thread did a few laps around Brands on racing tyres without even fine tuning the car, then made a thread ''Racing Soft Problem''. As I said maybe people should do a bit more milage before posting a thread like this.

 

[GTLeigh]

Member that made this thread did a few laps around Brands on racing tyres without even fine tuning the car, then made a thread ''Racing Soft Problem''. As I said maybe people should do a bit more milage before posting a thread like this.

I don't tune so would not have the faintest idea how to fine tune the problem out, however even if I did tune surely it would be better to do laps without doing any tuning to ascertain what exactly needs to be tuned.

 

[DolHaus]

The stickier the tyres, the stiffer the suspension has to be to make them work properly. If the tyre has an whole heap more grip but the body is still wobbling about on the top it makes weight transfer less degrading to cornering speed initially but if the weight transfer builds up enough and manages to break traction it will happen fast and where you least expect it to happen. Racing tyres tend to show up the same basic problems in suspension setup but it happens at a much faster speed. They lull you into a false sense of security which ultimately can be your undoing. (Gripping, gripping, gripping, tiniest hint of tyre losing grip, CRASH!)

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I am always curious if someone would fit soft racing slick on a stock Kia Cee'd for Reasonably Price Cars lap, then get the Stig to aggressively throw it around the Top Gear Test Track Maybe this will happen frequently :

 

[Vagabond]

Also, tires are definitely not just grip multipliers. Most of the people I talk to at track days who use slicks also have upgraded suspension to try and help accommodate the sticky tires.

This:

The stickier the tyres, the stiffer the suspension has to be to make them work properly.

👍
No, they are not just grip multipliers. Like with racing suspension, they are also 'stiffer' and have a much smaller slip angle, which is what gives them extra responsiveness to steering inputs. This also requires steering inputs to be smoother since the tyre flexes less during high speed direction changes. In GT6, as I said, its difficult to pin down exactly what is wrong with racing tyres but there is sure as heck something wrong and I really can't get my head (or hands) around just how they are working.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I have a fair amount of experience on both and 2 and 4 wheels, so I have no idea where this myth originates. Racing tyres are for racing and there are many race series consisting of stripped out road cars with roll cages, stiffer springs, beefed up brakes and no downforce. The biggest part of my own experience on track was in a Caterham 7, which was also completely road legal. The difference in handling between road and racing tyres is immense - stability under braking, mid-corner grip, and traction is rock solid and going back to road tyres again feels like you've fitted sponges to the car instead of tyres.

Also, many mere mortals take their own every-day cars to track days with a spare set of wheels with racing slicks on - when fitted they give the car perfect grip and traction and don't suddenly turn them into death traps, undriveable by mere mortals. On even an average car, you can gain 3 or more seconds a lap doing this without being an experienced racing driver.

The racing tyres in GT6 are in some way wrong. Given the problems with the game's gravity and inertia, its difficult to say exactly what is wrong but believe me, they are not realistic.

Well said.

I think people should get some experiance driving on racing softs before they make a thread about how buggy the tyres are.
Racing tyres are made for race cars. Like GT500, DTM, GT3, etc. These cars feel as they should on racing tyres. I fine tuned my GT500 Honda HSV for racing softs and the car feels great, goes exactly where I want it to go. There is nothing wrong with racing tyres you just must know when to use them and on which car.

I have 10+ years of real life racing with and without racing "slicks" or racing tires as they are called in GT6. That includes autocross, drag racing, and years of road track racing. Ranging from street tires, to street slicks, and full slicks. As it has been said MANY times, something is buggy with the "racing soft" tires on the front of the cars in GT6.

Also as mentioned, this problem is not with all cars. Sometimes AWD sometimes FWD. I personally haven't had the problem in GT6 with RWD cars. Its a coding issue for sure with the front soft racing tires. Could be a coding issue with weight distribution, or just an issue with front down force, or simply too much grip is coded with the front softs. I am sure it will eventually be addressed as it is a well known issue.

 

[KinLM]

This:

👍
No, they are not just grip multipliers. Like with racing suspension, they are also 'stiffer' and have a much smaller slip angle, which is what gives them extra responsiveness to steering inputs. This also requires steering inputs to be smoother since the tyre flexes less during high speed direction changes. In GT6, as I said, its difficult to pin down exactly what is wrong with racing tyres but there is sure as heck something wrong and I really can't get my head (or hands) around just how they are working.

Confused now as I basically said exactly what you quoted below my post.

I wasn't nearly as specific but I know how the suspension works, hence why I talked about the suspension "accommodating the tires."

Did you misread my post?

 

[nissman]

I have 10+ years of real life road track racing with and without racing "slicks". That includes autocross, drag racing, and years of road track racing. As it has been said MANY times, something is buggy with the racing soft tires in GT6. Period.

As I said few posts up I also agree with this.

But, OP is comparing road/sport tyres to racing tyres in GT6 after a few laps of testing. Not RL racing tyres to GT6 racing tyres. Never did I metion that racing tyres in this game are perfectly simulated.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

As I said few posts up I also agree with this.

But, OP is comparing road/sport tyres to racing tyres in GT6 after a few laps of testing. Not RL racing tyres to GT6 racing tyres. Never did I metion that racing tyres in this game are perfectly simulated.

Okay fair enough. I think a couple of us possibly read your reply out of context.

To fix the issue I put racing mediums on front in GT6 instead of racing soft. I kept racing soft on rear. This prevented the "stoppie" effect of the rear tires lifting and losing control. Hopefully my suggestions to people will help resolve some of this issue.

 

[DolHaus]

I'm not sure what we're arguing about here?

(I have no real life racing experience so I can't comment on that, my comments are purely based on game experience)

 

[Vagabond]

..And most cars in the game are fine with racing tires. But some are not. I don't see how this can be explained if the tires are at fault.

I didn't address this bit but to put it simply, some race cars with massive downforce are less affected simply because of the downforce. Many of them still have these issues on more technical circuits where mechanical grip is more important than downforce. Also, there is no 'standard' across GT and each car has its own unique tyres from what I can tell.

Confused now as I basically said exactly what you quoted below my post.

I wasn't nearly as specific but I know how the suspension works, hence why I talked about the suspension "accommodating the tires."

Did you misread my post?

No, I was re-affirming the point, no offence intended 👍

 

[KinLM]

I didn't address this bit but to put it simply, some race cars with massive downforce are less affected simply because of the downforce. Many of them still have these issues on more technical circuits where mechanical grip is more important than downforce. Also, there is no 'standard' across GT and each car has its own unique tyres from what I can tell.

No, I was re-affirming the point, no offence intended 👍

My apologies. It seems as though I was the one who misread! Apologies, andI appreciate your kindness! 👍

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I more thinking that the issue is with chassis code parameters of some of the car in GT6. I have tuned Megane Trophy Base Model on RS tire as a request, and it drives great

There are cars that have too much front grip bias like the R8 LMS Ultra Phoenix, Diablo GT2 has it a bit too. It's not the tires, but the chassis grip level.

 

[JMR450]

I think people should get some experiance driving on racing softs before they make a thread about how buggy the tyres are.

Racing tyres are made for race cars. Like GT500, DTM, GT3, etc. These cars feel as they should on racing tyres. I fine tuned my GT500 Honda HSV for racing softs and the car feels great, goes exactly where I want it to go. There is nothing wrong with racing tyres you just must know when to use them and on which car.

Sorry dude, but you are making more out of this than the OP. He simply asked a question because he has little experience with tuning. Chill out.

I more thinking that the issue is with chassis code parameters of some of the car in GT6. I have tuned Megane Trophy Base Model on RS tire as a request, and it drives great

There are cars that have too much front grip bias like the R8 LMS Ultra Phoenix, Diablo GT2 has it a bit too. It's not the tires, but the chassis grip level.

I haven't tried RS because I can't use them in career. I will have to try them online and see what I find, but I tend to agree with Vagabond. If the change is unnatural and unpredictable it would likely be a bug.

 

[killerjimbag]

Question? Are you using a wheel or DS3? Tire modeling for GT6 is kinda messed up IMHO. I look at it is his way for GT6. Race tires, race cars, why would someone spend 36000 to make a car worse handling?.