Racing Softs looked down upon?

[irapotato]

As someone who drove a ton in gt3 and gt4, i can say without a doubt that gt5's racing soft tires simply feel unrealistic compared to using street tires, as far as non-racecar racing is concerned. The most i'll use is racing hards, and that's only in my crazy Jaguar LM racer or my Nomad. Other than that it's simply more challenging to use sport tires. Imho they get a nicer sweet spot for endurance races, and once you do a hot lap or two they actually improve quite a bit from when they're quote unquote cold.

Tl;dr version:
The only tires going on my Black Ed. GT-R and my shiny new Aventador are street tires, seeing as how those are street cars to begin with.

 

[carracerptp]

Btw: did anyone see 5th gear last night where Tiff Needell tested loads of driving games?
He said GT5 felt more realistic than Forza 4!
Just had to tell someone, and it came from an actual ex pro race driver!

Can you link to the episode? or give the episodes name?

 

[phil_75]

Can you link to the episode? or give the episodes name?

I can't find it.
It is on the Discovery channel 8pm Mondays in the UK

He tests a few includingForza 4 and PC sims but when he gets on GT5 he says "this is the most realistic so far"
Oh i forgot, he also said " it amazes me how bad the sounds are on these games when all they have to do is record them from the car!"
He then went off on a tangent and rated the games that were most fun not realistic and gave Dirt 3 no.1lol

I found some Forza fans having a cry. Although non of them mention he said GT5 was more realistic. http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/5785369.aspx

 

[VBR]

GT5 has fantasy cars like the FGT & Red Bull X2010, so why not have fantasy tyres to go with them. Personally I don't use Racing Softs, I like to feel the twitchy character of untuned cars on appropriate tyres. I didn't pay £150 for a FFB wheel only to make every vehicle feel numb with them on. As for online racing, there are enough clean Shuffle rooms to keep me interested.

 

[CyKosis1973]

It's down to individual preference. Use whatever tyres you like, as long as the rest of the pack are using them too. I only really use RS tyres online, when racing with mates. I appreciate and understand that it might not be 'realistic' to shoe a 420PP Citroën Xsara with RS tyres, but hell, it's hilarious. That particular car works well on CS to RS tyres, and therein lays the actual challenge, making a car that is capable of being driven well regardless of the tyres. Deliberately driving on lesser tyres than what is available isn't anywhere near as challenging as getting a car to work well on all types of tyres.

All those that moan on that 'street cars' should be driven on 'street tyres' can stick to driving on the 'streets'. If I'm going to a race track, I'm gonna wear racing tyres. What's the point in pimping out a 'street car' to race at a track and then not using track tyres..??

I spent a good few hours last night in an open lobby running varying PP and tyres, don't let people 'snob bully' you into using anything other than what you want and what is allowed by your host...

{Cy}

 

[carracerptp]

I can't find it.
It is on the Discovery channel 8pm Mondays in the UK

He tests a few includingForza 4 and PC sims but when he gets on GT5 he says "this is the most realistic so far"
Oh i forgot, he also said " it amazes me how bad the sounds are on these games when all they have to do is record them from the car!"
He then went off on a tangent and rated the games that were most fun not realistic and gave Dirt 3 no.1lol

I found some Forza fans having a cry. Although non of them mention he said GT5 was more realistic. http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/5785369.aspx

Thanks for trying, I'll dig around some more for it.

 

[SolidSnake7735]

I'm new here, and from reading this thread I get the feeling that people don't like the Racing Soft because they think they're "unrealistic" and that their use should be limited to F1 and Touring cars only.

This sentiment does not, unfortunately, match the real experiences of racing slicks. Racing slicks really do provide a ridiculous performance advantage with absurd levels of grip.

I've done a fair amount of autocross (SCCA) and seen the wide variety of tire types used. Classes themselves have tire restrictions, but in the top tier (street prepared) the fastest drivers use racing slicks because they just provide that big a performance advantage. I commonly see C5 Corvettes and Miatas drive in on street tires with a little tire trailer towing their Hoosiers or Kumhos. They jack the cars up, swap on the slicks and do their runs. And oh man do these guys grip. And the weird thing is how little tire chirp you hear compared to the street tire classes. You can literally hear them sticking to the road because they actually are that sticky once warmed up. You can walk up to a slick tire after a run, press into it with your finger and you'll leave an impression of your fingerprint.

The reason why you wont hear those tires chirp or squeal is because it's wasted grip... the car hasn't enough power or a rigid enough chassis/suspension to take advantage of all that extra grip.

Which is the reason why Racing tires are frowned upon in the online community. They're basically training wheels, as I call them.

These are the tires i usually run in my lobbies
Comfort: drifting or <420PP street cars
Sports Hard: 420-550PP street cars
Sports Soft: 550-650PP street cars
I reserve racing tires for racing cars. or over 600PP street cars, but rarely ever.

 

[Tornado]

Btw: did anyone see 5th gear last night where Tiff Needell tested loads of driving games?
He said GT5 felt more realistic than Forza 4!
Just had to tell someone, and it came from an actual ex pro race driver!

I can't find it.
It is on the Discovery channel 8pm Mondays in the UK

He tests a few includingForza 4 and PC sims but when he gets on GT5 he says "this is the most realistic so far"
Oh i forgot, he also said " it amazes me how bad the sounds are on these games when all they have to do is record them from the car!"
He then went off on a tangent and rated the games that were most fun not realistic and gave Dirt 3 no.1lol

I found some Forza fans having a cry. Although non of them mention he said GT5 was more realistic. http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/5785369.aspx

*cough*

This sentiment does not, unfortunately, match the real experiences of racing slicks. Racing slicks really do provide a ridiculous performance advantage with absurd levels of grip.

That is true. What racing slicks do not do, however, is act as what basically amounts to a simple grip multiplier (as previously pointed out); and the reason that they are looked down upon in GT5 is that they do act that way in GT5.

 

[hairystig]

Who frowns upon racing softs?
Ok there is a very vocal minority on gtp who will berate anyone for even mentioning racing softs but just have a look at public lobbies online, the vast majority of them will have no tyre restrictions so everyone will using racing softs.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

In my practice/track days room, comfort tires are the only tire allowed and no single aid allowed - no ABS.

When I have a room for racing, Racing Hard tire is the max allowed, I may be rare breed online ... heavy damage, tire wear/fuel enabled, weak slipstream, no aids at all and comfort tire preferred. Makes for fun serious races or track days, where drivers actually drive - not ramming or fooling around with RS tires and SRF/TCS/ABS on.

 

[hairystig]

In my practice/track days room, comfort tires are the only tire allowed and no single aid allowed - no ABS.

When I have a room for racing, Racing Hard tire is the max allowed, I may be rare breed online ... heavy damage, tire wear/fuel enabled, weak slipstream, no aids at all and comfort tire preferred. Makes for fun serious races or track days, where drivers actually drive - not ramming or fooling around with RS tires and SRF/TCS/ABS on.

We're not worthy of being in the presence of your awesomeness..

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

We're not worthy of being in the presence of your awesomeness..

Not sure what you mean but that's the way I have been playing since release day, never used ABS on all my offline or online play, it took months to get used to it, but it was worth the effort, a totally different game without the brake safety net. And comfort tires is just my preference for all non race cars, I love driving on them. Anyone can and able to do it, if they are willingin the 1st place.

 

[mephiska]

All those that moan on that 'street cars' should be driven on 'street tyres' can stick to driving on the 'streets'. If I'm going to a race track, I'm gonna wear racing tyres. What's the point in pimping out a 'street car' to race at a track and then not using track tyres..??

This is actually more realistic. Even guys that go to a track on open track days put racing slicks on their cars. The ones who roll in on street "sport" tires like BF Goodrich KDW's or Kumho Ecsta XS's are clearly slower than the ones with sticky hoosiers.

 

[ZohsixGT5]

This is actually more realistic. Even guys that go to a track on open track days put racing slicks on their cars. The ones who roll in on street "sport" tires like BF Goodrich KDW's or Kumho Ecsta XS's are clearly slower than the ones with sticky hoosiers.

The problem is that the racing hards are still much grippier than their real life "track day" slick counterparts. The sport softs best simulate the real "track day" slicks IMO. That's just in my experience. Of course every brand/compound is different.

Sports hard are your standard semi slick tires, with comfort soft being the stock summer tires.

 

[Ddrizle]

Racing Softs looked down upon?

My humble opinion is that they are, along with.....

-Using a hand controller/DS3 instead of a wheel
-Using ABS or any handling aid
-Using auto trans. instead of manual trans.
-Using any on-screen indicators. instead of none

Understandable, as many have their own preferences on how they find enjoyment, immersion & a little more realism within GT5. Personally, I'm not one to look down on how one chooses to enjoy GT5 or any other game/tool.

 

[iainoflo85]

I'd rather race on racing soft tires and learn more without pulling my hair out or breaking my wheel. Right now after only a few months playing have I been able to drive without some aids and racing hard tires - my learning curve has slowly increased but I don't feel like a better driver, I just feel glad that I've overcome a difficulty level that for a long time I couldn't believe I was capable of. I don't drive in real life and for me playing GT5 is the closest I will get to racing so who cares if I'm a noob and stick RS tyres on a 400 pp car for the Sunday Cup, I had the credits so I did it and won, and that was all I was interested in at the time. Now I think I want a challenge and wish I had staggered my experience better rather than just rushing through the game at the easiest difficulty for me i.e using all aids and RS tires just so I could see what would happen when I completed the beginner, amateur etc races offline. For someone to frown upon using RS tires is no better than being in the playground and saying because you're not wearing trainers you can't beat me in a race if we run 100 yards. It's childish and I think leave the new guys to their RS tires and if you think you're better than them take it to the track and try and show them what can be achieved with a bit of practice, don't just bitch about being faster because you've been playing GT since the start.

Anyway I'll go back to my Suzuka endurance race in a Mazda 787B with RMs and aids on because I tried a lot to be evenly matched with the rest of the field and found it too frustrating - for this race I only want the Nissan GT-R Concept LM without having to wait another thousand race days, I've been waiting for months for it because I thought it would be a cool car being a GT-R but I might be wrong. Until I'm ready to do under 6:55 in less than a fully tuned 787B on the ring with RS tires I shall keep playing the way I feel most comfortable and most healthy for my £25 wheel from Argos.

 

[Morgoth_666]

My humble opinion is that they are, along with.....

-Using a hand controller/DS3 instead of a wheel
-Using ABS or any handling aid
-Using auto trans. instead of manual trans.
-Using any on-screen indicators. instead of none

Understandable, as many have their own preferences on how they find enjoyment, immersion & a little more realism within GT5. Personally, I'm not one to look down on how one chooses to enjoy GT5 or any other game/tool.

See, the problem with saying that is that if you accept that that is true(which it technically is), it means that everything is "looked down upon"(which is technically true). There are plenty of people who will berate you and act as though they are a superior human being to you if they find out that you:

-Use a wheel instead of a controller(especially if they beat you, as though a wheel is somehow a cheat device)
-don't use ABS or any of the other aids
-use manual transmission instead of automatic
-drive without using the obviously sensible HUD display options

The world is full of people who love to look down on others for whatever reason. Some of them play GT5 in what they consider a "realistic" way. Others of them play GT5 in what they consider a "fun," "fast" or "competitive" way. There are some people on here who do seem to feel superior to those who use any of the "video-gamey" options. There are others who don't really feel that way but sometimes don't use the best choice of language.

There are others who seem to think that anyone who states that they prefer to drive with no aids or HUD on sports and comfort tires are somehow making a severe personal insult to anyone who would have the gall to drive differently, no matter how they say it. There are surely even some GTP members who think anybody who enjoys the half-assed. glitchy, arcadey, inaccurate pile of console trash that is GT5 must have some sort of mental deficiency.

Basically, there are jerks and those who feel a need to feel superior everywhere, with every opinion. I don't think racing soft users are looked down upon any more than anyone else. While a few are vocal about it, most people who don't like using them just plain don't like using them. Host a room with tires limited to anything else and it won't be long before you find some people who think you are a complete moron for even considering using anything but racing softs, believe me. Most people will still just say "this room isn't for me" and leave quietly or never join in the first place. Not really any different than the other way around.

There just seems to be a slightly higher concentration of people who feel inclined to be active on this website who like to run with less grippy tires. The opposite appears to be true of GT5 online gamers overall.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

In my practice/track days room, comfort tires are the only tire allowed and no single aid allowed - no ABS.

When I have a room for racing, Racing Hard tire is the max allowed, I may be rare breed online ... heavy damage, tire wear/fuel enabled, weak slipstream, no aids at all and comfort tire preferred. Makes for fun serious races or track days, where drivers actually drive - not ramming or fooling around with RS tires and SRF/TCS/ABS on.

You know, this is like the 4th thread I've read today where you are going on about how you drive with no aids, not even ABS1. Plus, its even in your sig. I think we all get the message. You can stop with the elitism now.

 

[rosckolove]

You know, this is like the 4th thread I've read today where you are going on about how you drive with no aids, not even ABS1. Plus, its even in your sig. I think we all get the message. You can stop with the elitism now.

+1 this, I second it, and pledge allegiance to this.

 

[iainoflo85]

You can stop with the elitism now.

You know that's a great word for it - I totally agree and think that the no ABS club is not only "elitist", but also "exclusive" (just my feeling from the forums) and somewhat "extreme". But I guess he can stay in the minority, it's his choice.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

You know, this is like the 4th thread I've read today where you are going on about how you drive with no aids, not even ABS1. Plus, its even in your sig. I think we all get the message. You can stop with the elitism now.

+1 this, I second it, and pledge allegiance to this.

You know that's a great word for it - I totally agree and think that the no ABS club is not only "elitist", but also "exclusive" (just my feeling from the forums) and somewhat "extreme". But I guess he can stay in the minority, it's his choice.

I see a pattern here, anybody can drive without ABS if they want and willing to practice ... it's not a special ability, ABS drivers are so used to the comfort of applying brakes without risk that maybe they view no ABS as certain doom. Now, why the reaction of certain people are always the same when someone mention no ABS - negativity.

I really don't care if people hates me or considers me elitists, exclusives or minorities or whatever, I am proud of myself of willing to challenge myself, willing to risk, and going further than just relying on the game helping me braking - even with a dire consequences of slower lap times.

Now, the real question ... Why does everyone who used to drive with ABS having a hard time about no ABS ? Don't give me preference or the way of playing as answer, if that's the real reason, there won't be such calling of elitism, or negative reactions. I am suspecting the fear factor or unwillingness to go to a new territory.

Those fast and alien drivers who always stuck with ABS all the time, I kept wondering, if they have the talent, why waste it by driving with aid and not going further and better with their talent by taking off the braking aid, while someone like me who are not that fast or talented willing to drive without one even at risk of getting slower and I still can enjoy it. I took the risk of being hated too.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

No ABS does not hinder lap times much, a few tenths at most. Vast majority of time, I drive with ABS, don't play online much but once I went to a room with no ABS and didn't know about it until first corner of race . Anyway managed to adapt to it straightaway and could brake more or less as effectively as with ABS. Comfort Hards to Racing Softs, no ABS to ABS, I think most people who are on here should be able to drive well on all combinations, maybe slightly better on some particular combo that suits their driving style.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

No ABS does not hinder lap times much, a few tenths at most. Vast majority of time, I drive with ABS, don't play online much but once I went to a room with no ABS and didn't know about it until first corner of race . Anyway managed to adapt to it straightaway and could brake more or less as effectively as with ABS. Comfort Hards to Racing Softs, no ABS to ABS, I think most people who are on here should be able to drive well on all combinations, maybe slightly better on some particular combo that suits their driving style.

Sadly not all people can do that, I have witnessed enough in my no ABS practice room, so many people joined in, crashed on the 1st corner, they know full well my room title , 90% quit the room within 5 minutes or so

While the ones who stayed drive like gentlemen, they are usually fair and clean, with decent racing manner. They won't mind with comfort tire restriction as well, even when they drove 500+pp cars. They somehow enjoyed it, even when slower than with ABS and having sports/racing tires on

I often do some random sprint races with the same car while in that room, most are giving positive feedback, they were surprised the race could be so close and exciting till the end.

 

[CyKosis1973]

Everybody needs to just chill out and allow people to play the game how they want to. It's absurd.

The 'realistic' argument holds no water. There's so much about this game that isn't realistic, that it's not worth arguing.

I'll play this game however I like and won't suffer anyone who tries to tell me otherwise. I'd never force my ideals on anyone else and I'd expect the same from others. You're meant to be enjoying yourself, if you're not, you're doing it wrong...

{Cy}

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Sadly not all people can do that, I have witnessed enough in my no ABS practice room, so many people joined in, crashed on the 1st corner, they know full well my room title , 90% quit the room within 5 minutes or so

While the ones who stayed drive like gentlemen, they are usually fair and clean, with decent racing manner. They won't mind with comfort tire restriction as well, even when they drove 500+pp cars. They somehow enjoyed it, even when slower than with ABS and having sports/racing tires on

I often do some random sprint races with the same car while in that room, most are giving positive feedback, they were surprised the race could be so close and exciting till the end.

First corner is always interesting online. I tend to be always cautious by making sure if I get hit, I won't go off the track. I don't mind driving CH to RS and 600PP+ cars, ABS or no ABS as long as everyone's car performance is on a similar level. That is why I prefer Recommended Cars list. Haven't played online for a few months, I will add you on PSN if you want and we could have a race. I don't play often though so maybe only have the odd race every few months. Normally I just go on GT5 to get log in bonus .

Staying on topic, I don't look down on Racing Soft tyres if I see it online. I find it quite fun, it gives a good feeling of pushing the car to the limit as you get the car to do some crazy stuff. For example, I wonder if I can do Eau Rouge flat with this car. No way, yes way...

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

First corner is always interesting online. I tend to be always cautious by making sure if I get hit, I won't go off the track. I don't mind driving CH to RS and 600PP+ cars, ABS or no ABS as long as everyone's car performance is on a similar level. That is why I prefer Recommended Cars list. Haven't played online for a few months, I will add you on PSN if you want and we could have a race. I don't play often though so maybe only have the odd race every few months. Normally I just go on GT5 to get log in bonus .

Staying on topic, I don't look down on Racing Soft tyres if I see it online. I find it quite fun, it gives a good feeling of pushing the car to the limit as you get the car to do some crazy stuff. For example, I wonder if I can do Eau Rouge flat with this car. No way, yes way...

I am unable to get online GT5 for the next few days, I just deleted my gamedata due to weird error - PS3 shuts itself down every time I load Monza or Suzuka with weather both online/offline. I have been trying to update the game, always stuck at 1.08, installation error, I have over 30GB free space
Once I can resolve the update issue, I'll open practice lobby again and will announce it in this thread like I did before :


ABS 0 community where are you???

We could do same car races, tuning prohibited or anything you like, I often very loose in setting up room rules, because sometimes I want people to stay

Now I am playing offline GT5 1.0 again - no error anymore, did some fun arcades races with no ABS, I might record one lap at Monza rain

Back on topic, RS to me is just another super grip tire, not really necessary to use, other than when I race online in someone else's room where everyone uses RS, I'll follow suit. More like being in NFS races with these casual races, as long as they stay clean and fair. If not, then I would be having Destruction Derby race everyone ramming each other for position.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I am unable to get online GT5 for the next few days, I just deleted my gamedata due to weird error - PS3 shuts itself down every time I load Monza or Suzuka with weather both online/offline. I have been trying to update the game, always stuck at 1.08, installation error, I have over 30GB free space
Once I can resolve the update issue, I'll open practice lobby again and will announce it in this thread like I did before :


ABS 0 community where are you???

We could do same car races, tuning prohibited or anything you like, I often very loose in setting up room rules, because sometimes I want people to stay

Now I am playing offline GT5 1.0 again - no error anymore, did some fun arcades races with no ABS, I might record one lap at Monza rain

Back on topic, RS to me is just another super grip tire, not really necessary to use, other than when I race online in someone else's room where everyone uses RS, I'll follow suit. More like being in NFS races with these casual races, as long as they stay clean and fair. If not, then I would be having Destruction Derby race everyone ramming each other for position.

Have you tried following, back up your game save to USB drive, and then delete it off PS3. Delete GT5 game data. Then put PS3 in offline mode, and start GT5 and then install game data. Then restart PS3 and put back in online mode and update GT5 to latest version. Finally restore game save off USB. Best of luck in getting it sorted, maybe we will race soon.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Have you tried following, back up your game save to USB drive, and then delete it off PS3. Delete GT5 game data. Then put PS3 in offline mode, and start GT5 and then install game data. Then restart PS3 and put back in online mode and update GT5 to latest version. Finally restore game save off USB. Best of luck in getting it sorted, maybe we will race soon.

Did all that, I have my latest save backup, deleted my save + game data, and then run the game offline - did the preinstall, restart to go online - download updates, things went smooth until 1.08 installation - error. Checked the XMB - gamedata shown as corrupted data. I deleted it again, then do another update this time without installing from disc first, same thing happen .

I took the HDD out, connect it to my PC, ran HDD Regenerator to see if there's bad sector or data error, clean result, no error or bad sector, run HDD diagnostic tools, SMART says healthy.

Other games worked fine, I played MGS 4 for 6 hours non stop earlier, no issues. Hopefully I can find the solution soon, I have to do some driving tests on a FITT tune shootout as well.

 

[Kitten]

I find the problem, the very good drivers with car control can do almost 4-5 laps on the Ring+Extension, Lower the PP Longer you race with RS tires? correct me if im wrong

 

[Jaywalker]

I see a pattern here, anybody can drive without ABS if they want and willing to practice ... ...Those fast and alien drivers who always stuck with ABS all the time, I kept wondering, if they have the talent, why waste it by driving with aid and not going further and better with their talent by taking off the braking aid, while someone like me who are not that fast or talented willing to drive without one even at risk of getting slower and I still can enjoy it. I took the risk of being hated too.

I'm weaning myself off ABS. Nearly there. The only problem I have is that on some cars, the effect is over the top & totally unrealistic. (i.e. Instantaneous wild spins.) Apart from that, I'm finding it fun & it certainly makes you more drive more carefully. (I use a sponge ball taped behind the brake pedal for some resistance - I find it prevents me from mashing the brakes.)

Back on topic, I personally only use RS tyres in very high PP race cars & even then, whether I use them or not depends on the race/competition.