Rain Spray release vs. now

  • Thread starter xiimracing
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xiimracing

xiimracing

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Crealisiert
Comparision speaks for itself...
Comparision Video here : release vs. now (now at heaviest rain possible)

Roughly 1-2months after release they turned down the rain spray, smoke and dust... Smoke got turned up a bit again later, but dust and specially rain spray has not been touched since... This pretty much killed the immersion of the rain, sometimes you feel like it doesnt even rain at all, but its pouring down and totally wet on track... Really wish there would be a "slider" Up/Down for smoke/dust/spray...
If its gotten turned down because of the Console power i think they should consider a "lower resolution/higher effects" performance mode, as the game runs native 4k in all modes... (except 120hz)...
Screenshot_20230821_181336.jpg
 
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I guess this is one of those cuts they made in the game trying to optimize for ps4 since those volumetric effects cost a lot of computing power. Even PS5 struggles in single player under certain weather conditions with a lot of traffic.

The game doesn't really run native in 4K, Digital Foundry on YT has great videos about that.
 
Daxus
I guess this is one of those cuts they made in the game trying to optimize for ps4 since those volumetric effects cost a lot of computing power. Even PS5 struggles in single player under certain weather conditions with a lot of traffic.

The game doesn't really run native in 4K, Digital Foundry on YT has great videos about that.
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I know that the fps drop with weather and a lot of cars... But nothing a 1080 performance mode together with a smoke/spray/dust "slider" for each preference cant fix... Because the immersion on release was really stunning, and is pretty much gone no matter how hard it rains...
 
You are totally right, but tbh I didn't really notice it until you brought it up.

I have from a very good source that it is the ps4 that is holding GT7 back in a lot of ways. I doubt Sony will ever stop supporting that platform for GT7 as rumors have been saying. So, it's indeed a shame, but we kind of have to accept it or quit playing, witch isn't really an option for me personally. I understand Sony in this matter because there are not half the PS5's sold then there are GT7-copies sold and most people don't notice this or just haven't seen it ever.
 
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Daxus
You are totally right, but tbh I didn't really notice it until you brought it up.

I have from a very good source that it is the ps4 that is holding GT7 back in a lot of ways. I doubt Sony will ever stop supporting that platform for GT7 as rumors have been saying. So, it's indeed a shame, but we kind of have to accept it or quit playing, witch isn't really an option for me personally. I understand Sony in this matter because there are not half the PS5's sold then there are GT7-copies sold and most people don't notice this or just haven't seen it ever.
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I do believe also PS4 plays a role in this... However, shouldnt be a problem aswel that they turn these things up on the PS5 whilst keeping it low on the PS4... A slider on the ps5 version would also solve the competitive aspect...

And i mean that's bit the weird thing... If they would turn up GT7 more on the PS5, more people had a reason to get the PS5 for GT7... Because many of the PS4 GT players say "why pay for a PS5 when it looks 90% as good on my PS4". 😅

Or maybe they holding back for PS5 Pro or something ? 👀
 
Daxus
You are totally right, but tbh I didn't really notice it until you brought it up.

I have from a very good source that it is the ps4 that is holding GT7 back in a lot of ways. I doubt Sony will ever stop supporting that platform for GT7 as rumors have been saying. So, it's indeed a shame, but we kind of have to accept it or quit playing, witch isn't really an option for me personally. I understand Sony in this matter because there are not half the PS5's sold then there are GT7-copies sold and most people don't notice this or just haven't seen it ever.
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I can almost guarantee the PS4 being supported isn't causing the rain spray to be dialed down on PS5 versions of the game. If, and it is an if, the PS4 is holding the PS5 version back in any notable way, it'll most likely be be due to file structure and data packets being optomised in a way that they work on both the PS5 and PS4 as they are (so probalby not fully optomised for either console), rather than having each version optomised specifically for its respective console. Rain spray is so minor, it likely won't come into it. This is more likely a gameplay related tweak than a performance issue.
 
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xiimracing
And i mean that's bit the weird thing... If they would turn up GT7 more on the PS5, more people had a reason to get the PS5 for GT7... Because many of the PS4 GT players say "why pay for a PS5 when it looks 90% as good on my PS4". 😅
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That's where I'm standing...

But it's a shame really that the game is not 100% of what it could be, both visually or technically (i.e.: split player base on sport mode).
 
Even now the PS5 can't handle the rain spray, not in VR anyway, its low resolution and very low frame rate effects. I think it might be fair to say the PS5 held back the GT7 effects as it was turned down for those of us using VR who play crossplay with non VR. I guess you cant have two different weather models running in the same race?
PS5 pro could handle some decent weather. But for the same reason I dont think they would make it more as the standard PS5 couldnt cope, they would just make the weather effects we have already faster and crisper on the PS5 Pro. Or they may add a ray tracing plus option.

The solution might be found in GT Sport 2.
 
VR-SORN
Even now the PS5 can't handle the rain spray, not in VR anyway, its low resolution and very low frame rate effects. I think it might be fair to say the PS5 held back the GT7 effects as it was turned down for those of us using VR who play crossplay with non VR. I guess you cant have two different weather models running in the same race?
PS5 pro could handle some decent weather. But for the same reason I dont think they would make it more as the standard PS5 couldnt cope, they would just make the weather effects we have already faster and crisper on the PS5 Pro. Or they may add a ray tracing plus option.

The solution might be found in GT Sport 2.
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VR already runs in a own mode graphic wise... So even by now you dont have the onscreen quality in VR... So no problem keeping rain spray high on screen and have it low in VR i guess...
And there are still frame drops nowadays without rain if you have alot of cars in one picture... A lower resolution mode with higher effects + more smoothness would be the way to go... 🤷🏻‍♂️ But jeah PD is not known for giving option...
 
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I thought the main issue is that pretty much all consumers that bought GT7, were unaware PSVR2 was the main peripheral behind the development of GT7. If everyone(including those not in the know of Gran Turismo), were made aware of PSVR2 before and at launch, it might be a different scenario from early reviews to when the game was in stores.

I have good rain effects in PSVR2.


Imagine the even more chaos, if PSVR2 was released during the console shortage/hoarding.
 
05XR8
I thought the main issue is that pretty much all consumers that bought GT7, were unaware PSVR2 was the main peripheral behind the development of GT7. If everyone(including those not in the know of Gran Turismo), were made aware of PSVR2 before and at launch, it might be a different scenario from early reviews to when the game was in stores.

I have good rain effects in PSVR2.


Imagine the even more chaos, if PSVR2 was released during the console shortage/hoarding.
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Of course it still does look nice, but also this is nothing comparable to how it once was...

Look at this daylight video from release (onboard at 1:50min)
 
Techlet
It looked so much nicer on release. Both rain spray and dust on the dirt tracks.

I understand the performance compromise but I still much prefer it to what we currently have. Maybe PD can re-enable the effects with a PS5 Pro upgrade if there'll ever be one...
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Something like a slider, or a lower resolution "performance mode" could also bring it to have option...
 
VR-SORN
You got no spray in that video. Actually ok.
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xiimracing
Of course it still does look nice, but also this is nothing comparable to how it once was...

Look at this daylight video from release (onboard at 1:50min)
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My point is, I typed good rain effects. I didn't mention how much spray there was. The issue was brought up about bad effects and slow down in PSVR2. As just mentioned by Galveston, the effects are good. I'm also not getting any slow down.
 
It may still be this way to level the playing field. Since you can choose whatever view you want when driving the car, anyone playing in cockpit view would be penalized in adverse weather conditions if the spray made a mess of the windshield. Everyone else can see clearly using a bumper, roof or 3rd person cam.
 
05XR8
My point is, I typed good rain effects. I didn't mention how much spray there was. The issue was brought up about bad effects and slow down in PSVR2. As just mentioned by Galveston, the effects are good. I'm also not getting any slow down.
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It might depend on the track and cars and how much spray they make, in PSVR2 I once saw quite lot of spray, the game frame rate stays good, but the effect of the spray animation was really low frame rate, and a bit blocky.
Its a bit like reflections in GT, the frame rate of them is different to the simulation refresh rate.
 
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VR-SORN
It might depend on the track and cars and how much spray they make, in PSVR2 I once saw quite lot of spray, the game frame rate stays good, but the effect of the spray animation was really low frame rate, and a bit blocky.
Its a bit like reflections in GT, the frame rate of them is different to the simulation refresh rate.
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I was also trying to recall when I had experienced less spray. I have plenty of shots at Fuji with heavy spray. One particular shot with the McLaren MP4 and CLK.
When was the OP last experiencing heavy spray?
 
I wonder what percentage of GT7 players are still on PS4? It must be an incredibly small number, even compared to launch. When the PS4 edition (outside of Japan) really had no impact on the sales charts. Since then I imagine a very significant number have upgraded to PS5.

While basic PS4 support and functionality won't be dropped. I can't imagine many resources are now going into PS4, at least in terms of maintaining performance & graphical fidelity. If we ever did get a graphically demanding city track I imagine performance would crater on PS4. At this point resources need to be on PS5 (Pro).

As mentioned up above, I would like the option to use sliders for effects and so on. The majority of my playtime is spent Time Trialling, which should give plenty of headroom to dial things up.
 
Dave A
I can almost guarantee the PS4 being supported isn't causing the rain spray to be dialed down on PS5 versions of the game. If, and it is an if, the PS4 is holding the PS5 version back in any notable way, it'll most likely be be due to file structure and data packets being optomised in a way that they work on both the PS5 and PS4 as they are (so probalby not fully optomised for either console), rather than having each version optomised specifically for its respective console. Rain spray is so minor, it likely won't come into it. This is more likely a gameplay related tweak than a performance issue.
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That's the thing, rain spray is very, very compute intensive when it's calculated in a realistic manner. Every particle of that fog could be calculated. And it was very realistic IMO

And saying to almost guarantee something without anything else is a bit awkward for me, since the people we spoke about PS4 holding GT7 back are very much involved with GT7 and it could be they were looking for excuses, but don't think they were.

@Nathan88 My best guess is that at least 60% of copies sold are PS4
 
Daxus
That's the thing, rain spray is very, very compute intensive when it's calculated in a realistic manner. Every particle of that fog could be calculated. And it was very realistic IMO

And saying to almost guarantee something without anything else is a bit awkward for me, since the people we spoke about PS4 holding GT7 back are very much involved with GT7 and it could be they were looking for excuses, but don't think they were.

@Nathan88 My best guess is that at least 60% of copies sold are PS4
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Either the PS5 can handle it or it can't. My point is that the game being cross generation and supported on PS4 will have nothing to do with the rain spray being reduced on the PS5. You don't need to reduce it on the PS5 version to reduce it on the PS4 version for example.

As I said, the main restraints will be in the way the game is sending data to the CPU and GPU and if thats done in a way that will work on both consoles across both game versions, it might not be best optomised for either. The best thing is to optomise the PS4 version independently of the PS5 version and vice versa, but that also takes more time.

If you think about the big benefits of the PS5, other than nicer graphics, what are they? Faster data loading and processing is the big one. Graphics can quite easilly be toned down to match the PS4's performance, but the data need to be able to be sent in a way that it can be read by the PS4 as well, and both consoles read data quite differently. The PS4 cannot read data nearly as fast as the PS5.
 
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I just set up my first custom race on Nordschleife with "torrential" rain and it's indeed quite disappointing. Even at 200km/h+ it feels more like light rain.
Wish we could have intense thunderstorms ⛈️
 
They also downgraded the sparks , tire smoke , and dirt smoke when going off track.
You can still see the original effects in replay mode.
 
xiimracing
Comparision speaks for itself...
Comparision Video here : release vs. now (now at heaviest rain possible)

Roughly 1-2months after release they turned down the rain spray, smoke and dust... Smoke got turned up a bit again later, but dust and specially rain spray has not been touched since... This pretty much killed the immersion of the rain, sometimes you feel like it doesnt even rain at all, but its pouring down and totally wet on track... Really wish there would be a "slider" Up/Down for smoke/dust/spray...
If its gotten turned down because of the Console power i think they should consider a "lower resolution/higher effects" performance mode, as the game runs native 4k in all modes... (except 120hz)...View attachment 1281861
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I think it was more because people were crashing.
 
hyperspeed980
There's a 99% chance the effects were reduced for visibility reasons, not performance ones.
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Disagree. On PS5, there wasn't any problem with visibility from rain spray. The entire point of off-track dust is to reduce visibility so that wouldn't make sense. And the spark effects never caused a visibility issue at all, that was merely a neat effect.

However there were quite a few complaints about FPS drops with heavy rain spray and a lot of traffic on PS5. It's all a graphical performance issue.
 

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