Certainly, it's easy to dismiss the more outlandish claims. "No grip" is obviously a straw man. And not being able to slide the cars is not what I've seen people saying, both you and others have said the opposite, that large angles are required. Which is often how real life rally cars are driven, but in modern times it has become less so, and it shouldn't be required.
Would you care to comment in a more detailed manner what aspects of the dirt driving you find to be particularly realistic?
I mean, I thought it was accepted in general that Gran Turismo as a series was a good but not great simulation by design. It behaves in a largely realistic manner, but certain behaviours are reduced or omitted (or just missing) in order to give that Gran Turismo "feel" that we all enjoy. Historically, Gran Turismo rallying has been probably the weakest part of the simulation. The wide courses were a necessity, because it often would have been horrendously difficult to thread a single lane road with the lack of lateral grip available.
I thought that this had kind of been accepted as a given. Gran Turismo in the past was a mediocre dirt simulation, but it was a few extra courses on the top of some already pretty sizable games, so there was no sense that there was much missed out on because of it. That's not true in GTS, the game is small and every part of it really needs to earn it's place.
If the dirt physics really have taken a step forward, then I'm interested to hear about it. So far the consensus from people whose opinions I'd trust is that it's in the same vein as past entries. Videos seem to show the same, an entirely uniform track surface that the cars sort of glide over. No patches of gravel, no digging the tyres into the surface to find grip, no getting out of shape after a jump, just a smooth surface that happens to have a different grip coefficient and visual texture to tarmac. Pick your gear and angle for the corner and just ride it through smoothly. Feels pretty slick, but it's not really that similar to real driving on dirt.
Perhaps that surface is remarkably similar to driving on dirt, but if that's all it is then it seems like it's missing a lot of what making driving (or racing!) on dirt unique and exciting. Rally is more than just a slippery surface, there's all the inconsistency and risk that comes from driving on an uneven and difficult to predict surface with really quite large jumps which can have significant effects on the car. Like I said, Gran Turismo reduces or omits certain behaviours in order to simplify it's simulation, and it so happens that the ones that they omit on dirt are quite key to making the experience similar to real life.
I’d never go anywhere near calling GT a sim when it comes to rallying.
I would agree with your ‘It behaves in a largely realistic manner, but certain behaviours are reduced or omitted (or just missing) in order to give that Gran Turismo "feel" that we all enjoy.’ comment.
How do you drive a car on the loose? The techniques for going fast remain true for modern rally cars on loose surfaces, though the angles are much smaller than in older generations.
In simple terms… heavy brake, shift weight forward, turn wheel (large input), wait for the front of the car to get to a level of grip where it starts to turn or the unloaded rear starts to swing, pointing the car in to the corner, get straight on the gas, wind lock off.
In more complex terms… using the major controls to adjust the direction of the car from corner to corner… exiting a left hand corner, car sliding to the right (in oversteer), right hand corner approaching, apply big input of right lock, big input of brakes (left foot), feel the weight shift forwards unloading the rear, allow rear to swing back to the left pointing the car in to the turn, apply throttle once you get the desired angle, which shifts weight to the rear and allows you to carry power through the corner.
Repeat as necessary… executed correctly, the car should almost never be pointing in a straight line, you’re always working to keep the rear of the car mobile to enable you to help rotate it in to a corner.
Get any of the different phases wrong, and the car will most likely slip in to understeer/slide sideways… so if you get the car pointed in to the corner, and don’t get on the gas, it will just slide wide… you need to get on the gas to drag the car forwards, out of the slide.
My experience (based on a session in the Lancer last night) is if you use these techniques, GTS rallying interprets the inputs correctly as far as the way the car behaves (the way weight transfers, and grip changes).
As far as simulation? No. It’s far from a simulation – tracks are too wide, more grip off line, no penalties for cutting. Lateral grip is probably too low, and as
@Scaff says, the way the tyres interact with the surface isn’t correct.
But the ‘feeling’ is right.
Better than previous versions of rallying in GT? To be honest I don’t remember – it must be 2 or 3 years since I last tried rallying in GT6… I don’t remember that being a particularly enjoyable… and I do remember that driving like that was never the fastest way round… for that you had to take the racing line, and use as much off course as you could.
- was GT3 and Tahiti and Smokey Mountain tracks. Had hours of fun on those tracks in the Escort rally car.
