real life manual cars questions.

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He let go of the gas, but you are right in assuming that you can do it... It just isn't recommended. Most automotive magazines make special note that they do not do the "no-lift-shift" on their test cars, but some do think that they do on occasion. Its not particularly good for the car, however, some have been designed to do it; Case-in-point, the 2008 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Turbo.

...I still wouldn't do it...
 
also help, my friend has a 350z, while he was out of the car, i went and sat in front while the car is off and on parked, i pressed the clutch just to feel it a little, then i played around with the H stick shift, my friend sitting next beside me told me that i have to press the clutch all the way down in order to shift. well i did. do i have to press the clutch all the way down whenever i want to shift? also the clutch feels very very stiff, it's stiffer than the gas or brake pedals, so i have to press it alll the way down? it requires a bit of force.
 
ND4SPD, does the AP2 take flat shifting?

Sorry I don't quite know. Well all cars these days have an rpm based fuel cut off at redline so I guess it's not relatively bad for the engine in today's cars but I still wouldn't recommend it.

also help, my friend has a 350z, while he was out of the car, i went and sat in front while the car is off and on parked, i pressed the clutch just to feel it a little, then i played around with the H stick shift, my friend sitting next beside me told me that i have to press the clutch all the way down in order to shift. well i did. do i have to press the clutch all the way down whenever i want to shift? also the clutch feels very very stiff, it's stiffer than the gas or brake pedals, so i have to press it alll the way down? it requires a bit of force.
Yes, when shifting the clutch must be depressed all the way. Now from personal experience (experience by sitting in a 350Z and G35 at an autoshow and playing with the clutch and gearbox) the 350Z's and G35's have a very stiff clutch, making it slightly difficult. Not all car's have a clutch that stiff.
 
also help, my friend has a 350z, while he was out of the car, i went and sat in front while the car is off and on parked, i pressed the clutch just to feel it a little, then i played around with the H stick shift, my friend sitting next beside me told me that i have to press the clutch all the way down in order to shift. well i did. do i have to press the clutch all the way down whenever i want to shift? also the clutch feels very very stiff, it's stiffer than the gas or brake pedals, so i have to press it alll the way down? it requires a bit of force.
It's always a good idea to press the clutch the entire way down. My clutch is worn out though, so it doesn't grip until the very end, so I only have to press it about halfway and it releases.

Oh, and that s2000 does have an RPM meter. Thats the thing at the top that says 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9


EDIT: Flat shifting is more or less a drag racing technique, you shouldn't use it every day on the street. Also, for normal street driving, you should shift at around 3500rpm, and then lets say you reach 35mph and your engine is at 3000 rpms, since you aren't accelerating, it would be a good idea to just shift to the next gear and cruise at around 2200 rpm.


It's a lot easier than you think. Once you drive a manual car with someone who knows how to beside you, they'll tell you when to shift and stuff if you need any help.

Once you get normal driving down, racing techniques like flat shifting are a lot easier to understand.
 
It shouldn't have to go all the way down in every car, but it depends really. I know that clutches, generally, in Volkswagens and Volvos normally are rather high on the pedal by comparison to say Corvettes or Mustangs that are generally quite low. Furthermore, the clutch effort (like you said, it was "hard") is going to depend on the engine that its attached to. The pedal in my car is quite light, but like the 911 that I drove (an '87), that required a fair amount of effort to engage.

Then you can get into things like the type of pedal as well. In my Vee-Dub, its the conventional style, but the Porsche had a racing-style setup where you pushed the pedal forward instead of downward. Much easier for heel-toe, even with dress shoes on, lol...
 
Then you can get into things like the type of pedal as well. In my Vee-Dub, its the conventional style, but the Porsche had a racing-style setup where you pushed the pedal forward instead of downward. Much easier for heel-toe, even with dress shoes on, lol...

Really? I don't think I've seen a clutch pedal like that before, thats pretty cool.
 
thanks you guys, i feel a lot more confident in driving manuals now. i hope to get a used ap1 or ap2 after i graduate from high school and switch to full time job.
 
Really? I don't think I've seen a clutch pedal like that before, thats pretty cool.

Similar to this on the Carrera GT:
Pedals.jpg


...Just in 1987 technology...

My car is much more "conventional" like this out of the Boxster:
boxster05-%20pedals.jpg
 
Similar to this on the Carrera GT:
*Snip

...Just in 1987 technology...

My car is much more "conventional" like this out of the Boxster:
*snip

Wow that Carrera GT looks fun.
 
Guh, driving stick is 90% feel. Don't worry about a tach, honestly. First car I learned to drive stick on didn't have one, and my Corolla doesn't either. My MR2 does, and I used it a bit to get use how high the engine spins and VVT point and such, but I don't look at it ever either. Well, I do now since my speedometer cable snapped, so I figured out my speed based on RPM and gear choice (yay mental math)

That aside, downshifting is really basic if you are stopping. Just brake and then put the clutch in and leave it in as you come to a stop, then put it in first. If you are talking about toe and heel rev matching... yeah, good luck explaining that. Its purely a by feel thing, and it takes a while to get the hang of.

The clutch usage with regard to gas and such has been answered earlier.

As have the other questions, except the one on clutches and LSDs.


mnm
Well I know that in GT, you can buy different type of clutches, flywheels and transmissions and LSD. So like is there any difference between the flywheels, clutches, transmissions and LSD. Would a twin clutch be better than a single clutch in terms of durability and performance?

Anything besides a factory clutch in a car will generally be HARDER to learn on, and will wear out faster. Economy clutches are softer and smoother to learn on, while high performance clutches are nearly binary, and you will hate learning to drive on them. I still stall my MR2 from time to time just because of the on/off nature of the clutch. An LSD will have nothing to do with your shifting. A lighter flywheel will lead to revs dropping faster between shifts, which means faster shifting, but if you are slow, you might end up rev matching on up shifts...

The transmission would change your speed at X rpm in gear X. You'd still shift at the same RPM (everything else constant), but what your speedo would read would be different.

When the clutch wears out, you'll know it. On a very stiff, harsh clutch, you'll notice response and the snap will be a bit worse. And over time, you'll notice the clutch slipping, RPMs going up while your speed doesn't, and other such things.
 
so when i drive normally, i shift up when my rpm hits 3000 rpm, and i shift down when it hits around 12000 rpm. right? and to shift, i have to let go of gas, hold clutch down then shift.
The RPM where you shift up/down depends on the situation (and part of the point of a manual is that you get to decide when). Generally, yes, you want to shift up at 3000RPM for ordinary driving, although some cars can get away with 2500RPM or even 2000RPM, depending on how economical you want your driving to be. However, I should probably mention that with the S2000's high-RPM powerband you might want to shift even higher, close to 4000RPM. An S2000 enthusiast forum would be able to tell you more about that.

As for shifting down, well, it depends on what you're doing. Most downshifts you make will be because you're slowing down for a red light in, say, 6th, and then it turns green while you're still going 10mph. In that case, you wouldn't want to try to accelerate in 6th, so you downshift to 2nd and go on your way. By the way -- don't try to downshift into 1st while moving. Always use 2nd unless you've come to a complete stop.

There are other situations, too, like slowing for a turn where you don't have to stop (such as turning left from a major street into a parking lot when traffic is clear). For those situations I use a lazy form of rev-matching -- clutch depressed, move shifter to 3rd, use throttle to raise RPM (from spending nearly every day with my car I know what RPM to go to), release clutch, make turn -- but if you feel uncomfortable trying that then you could either coast into the parking lot or come to a stop before making the left turn.

Only once have I truly used heel-toe downshifting, and that was when I was doing some spirited driving on a valley road on a rainy night. A corner ended up being sharper than I had expected, so I instinctively heel-toe downshifted (hurray videogames!) and made the corner in a bit of a slide, with room to spare. It felt awesome.

i have another question. so do you have to worry about slowing down earlier since you have to watch rpm? or do you slow down as if you drive a automatic, since you drive manual and have to be more aware, you slow down earlier right?
The only thing different about slowing down with a manual is that you have to worry about putting the clutch in when your RPM reaches idle speed, or shifting to a lower gear when you're able to accelerate again and your RPM is too low to accelerate from.

Basically, all you have to do is make the decisions that the automatic used to make. Everything else about driving is exactly the same.

It shouldn't have to go all the way down in every car, but it depends really.
You should depress the clutch to the floor anyway. Shifting with the clutch half-way might work, but as I know from experience of trying it, if you don't press the clutch down far enough then you'll get some gear grind. Even if you don't hear grinding, you could still be exposing the clutch and/or transmission to some unneccessary wear. Besides, it's easy enough to press the clutch to the floor.
 
You're putting way too much stress on revs for day to day driving.

Very quickly you pick up the cars gearing for each speed. For example in my Nissan Almera 1.4

1st to 2nd, as soon as your moving
2nd to 3rd when at 15-20.
3rd to fourth at 30mph
fourth to fifth at about 40.

You give or take a little for inclines (which there are alot of near me) but it's really not difficult. And I say that knowing that hundreds of 17yr old boys pass their test in manuals every year in the UK. That's right, I'm calling my own gender thick.
 
Do you mean a twin clutch transmission?

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/dual-clutch-transmission.htm

Or do you mean twin clutch plates? Because twin clutch plates is a durability thing, iirc.
Well thanks for the tip, and yes, I mean twin clutch plate. :)
Anything besides a factory clutch in a car will generally be HARDER to learn on, and will wear out faster. Economy clutches are softer and smoother to learn on, while high performance clutches are nearly binary, and you will hate learning to drive on them. I still stall my MR2 from time to time just because of the on/off nature of the clutch. An LSD will have nothing to do with your shifting. A lighter flywheel will lead to revs dropping faster between shifts, which means faster shifting, but if you are slow, you might end up rev matching on up shifts...

The transmission would change your speed at X rpm in gear X. You'd still **** at the same RPM (everything else constant), but what your speedo would read would be different.

When the clutch wears out, you'll know it. On a very stiff, harsh clutch, you'll notice response and the snap will be a bit worse. And over time, you'll notice the clutch slipping, RPMs going up while your speed doesn't, and other such things.

Wow.....thats a lot of explanation there. So a performance clutch would be harder to learn, but you can shift much easier right? I mean should a performance clutch make your shifting time faster? But sounds to me its harder to learn how to use a performance clutch from your view....

But the twin plate clutches are for high performance cars right? So if a normal car (well, just stock coupe's, hatchbacks or even family sedan cars) had a twin plate clutch, would there be any downside to it? I know that GT had mentioned that it would not be good on normal cars.....
 
No, a performance clutch is bother harder to learn and drive with. Its more aggressive, and as with almost any performance boost, you lose comfort and convenience. General rule of thumb is is you gain performance, you lose drivablity.

So, pretty much any performance clutch will make driving annoying at times, especially in stop and go traffic :indiff:
 
Well its not just the plates that determine how hard it is to learn, it depends on the car. Single-plate clutches, I assume, are what you're going to find on almost every standard street car out there with the exclusion (I assume) of some seriously high-powered sports cars. But even then, there are plenty of those that will drive just as easily as your neighbor's Civic.

What you normally have to worry about in sports cars these days is the way that the clutches are made. There are organic and metallic clutches, the organic (as I recall) being much more difficult to use. Tests of the Carrera GT and Mosler MT900 noted in more than one magazine that it was very easy to stall without proper knowledge on how to use it, however, that often depended from driver to driver.

When I drove the Porsche, I found it surprisingly easy to drive despite the heavy clutch (being that I had been in a bicycle race earlier that day, it didn't help my calf/thigh muscles). Again, it depends.

I learned to drive stick on my '93 Fox with a slightly worn clutch that grabbed high, so I should be able to get in just about anything and get it right the first time. Although, I will admit that when I drove the Scion xD a few months ago, I did stall it once (Toyotas are weird...).
 
You should depress the clutch to the floor anyway. Shifting with the clutch half-way might work, but as I know from experience of trying it, if you don't press the clutch down far enough then you'll get some gear grind. Even if you don't hear grinding, you could still be exposing the clutch and/or transmission to some unneccessary wear. Besides, it's easy enough to press the clutch to the floor.

You won't grind your gears as it's not possible to do as they are all linked, what you hear is the gears selector teeth not getting in the holes.

I did try to find something on the web on this, but gear grinding searches only got me links to grinding gears in the motor industry, rather than damage to the gears by mis-use. But as said, it's the selector teeth grinding, not the actual gear.
 
You won't grind your gears as it's not possible to do as they are all linked, what you hear is the gears selector teeth not getting in the holes.

I did try to find something on the web on this, but gear grinding searches only got me links to grinding gears in the motor industry, rather than damage to the gears by mis-use. But as said, it's the selector teeth grinding, not the actual gear.
Howstuffworks.com
When you make a mistake while shifting and hear a horrible grinding sound, you are not hearing the sound of gear teeth mis-meshing. As you can see in these diagrams, all gear teeth are all fully meshed at all times. The grinding is the sound of the dog teeth trying unsuccessfully to engage the holes in the side of a blue gear.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission2.htm
 
I'm sorry that a commonly-used phrase isn't actually a true description, and that I felt it was a more convenient descriptor than typing "if you don't press the clutch down far enough then you'll hear some grinding as the dog teeth fail to match up with the engagement holes on the next gear."
 
It's pretty common to say your grinding your gears when you get it wrong, it's not exactley whats happening, but that's the common phrase for it.

On the topic of stopping, I've seen a lot of people saying they stop, put the car in neutral and then apply the handbrake. That is wrong, you stop, you keep the car in gear with the clutch pressed, then you put the handbrake on, then you go into neutral. Although some leave it in gear, I only do if I'm parked on a slope.

Driving manul is almost second nature to me, I'd get more annoyed driving an auto beacuse I'd want to be changing the gears. It's not dificult to do, you just need to get a feel for it.
 
There's not much I can add, but those of you that leave your car in gear when you park - I hope you never get an AutoStart installed. If you do, you'll have a giant remote control car.

Until it stalls, of course.
 
^It couldn't start with the car in gear. It would stall as it's being started, if that makes any sense. Besides, most cars have interlocks that prevent the ignition from firing unless the clutch is in, or the car is in neutral. Interestingly, in a lot of states, installing a remote starter on a manual is illegal for the reason you stated. No one ever said that legislators are mechanics.
 
You know, there's an Interesting transmission in my grandpa's '51 Chrysler Windsor. It's a 2-speed self-shifter...but has a clutch pedal to shift between neutral, reverse, and drive.

that pedal's heavy as hell, but, ideally, you only have to push it once.
 
^It couldn't start with the car in gear. It would stall as it's being started, if that makes any sense. Besides, most cars have interlocks that prevent the ignition from firing unless the clutch is in, or the car is in neutral. Interestingly, in a lot of states, installing a remote starter on a manual is illegal for the reason you stated. No one ever said that legislators are mechanics.
The only reason I brought it up is because someone I worked with put on in his 4Runner. It was the only vehicle in the lot on campus and it was up against a snow bank. As he was walking towards it, he hit the button and it lurched forward halfway up the bank before it stopped. As for the clutch interlock, it is bypassed when installing an AutoStart (I used to work at a shop that installed them). My Neon had one and the one thing they said to make sure of was to always leave it in neutral, never in gear for that exact reason.

I don't know about the legalities of AutoStarts in manuals, but in my Civic I was told by the dealer that it will void the warranty. You'd better believe that the day my warranty is up it'll be in for an AutoStart. Twenty-three degrees for the high and colder than that for most of the winter kind of makes it a necessity.
 
TB
As he was walking towards it, he hit the button and it lurched forward halfway up the bank before it stopped.
Okay, then I guess you just need to park about 5 feet short, then :lol:.
 
On the plus side, he knew it was in gear and wanted to see if it would actually start and climb the snow bank.
 
I'm sorry that a commonly-used phrase isn't actually a true description, and that I felt it was a more convenient descriptor than typing "if you don't press the clutch down far enough then you'll hear some grinding as the dog teeth fail to match up with the engagement holes on the next gear."

:guilty:

Just trying to pass on a bit of my (limited) knowledge.

---

Thanks, EE, thats what I meant. I did look on there, didn't think to search 'shifting'.
 
1. help, how do i shift down to a lower gear if i were to slow down? okay well you know how when you press on the brakes to slow down your car? how do you know when to shift to a lower gear? what if i shift too early and the RPM is too high? and it redlines, will it damage my car? because i heard redlining is bad, but what about this? i'm not pressing on the gas or anything. is there anything else i need to know about this?

If you are just learning, worry about learning when to upshift properly.
Only use your brakes (and clutch) to stop the vehicle at this point. Brakes are way cheaper to maintain/replace than a clutch. Downshifting is slightly more advanced technique, and will require you to have much more "intimate" familiarity with the vehicle and its quirks before you go downshifting. You need to be familiar with the "power curves" of your engine. When you get those down, you'll "know" when it's safe to downshift.
But if you are braking/slowing and you are 2,500 RPM from redline, (that margin will be widening as the vehicle slows) you will be safe to downshift.
You also need to learn to "rev-match" as you down shift to make the process much smoother. (so you don't get thrown into the seat belts.)

2. and here's another one, do i have to press on the clutch everytime i'm not pressing on the gas while in gear? like if i'm in gear 1-6 and i'm not pressing on the clutch, and i'm not pressing on the gas, it will damage my car right? so i have to either press on clutch if i'm not pressing on gas if i'm in gear 1-6 right?
Actually, you need to keep your foot off of the clutch except for when you are shifting. If you are slowing you can be pedal free till you want to come to a complete stop.
IF you "ride" the clutch, you will cause it to wear much faster.
The "rule" is, foot depresses clutch, shift, foot off clutch.

3. everytime i press on the brakes, i have to press on the clutch first right? is there anything else i need to know?
You only need the clutch in conjunction with the brake when you are coming to a stop. As you become more advanced, you will use the brake and clutch to "heel-and-toe" when downshifting for a perfect ratio to use coming uot of a turn. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS TILL YOU HAVE LEARNED TO UPSHIFT AND DOWNSHIFT PROPERLY, AND ARE COMPLETELY COMFORTABLE WITH IT, AS THIS TECHIQUE REQUIRES THE USE OF TWO FEET TO MANIPULATE ALL THREE PEDALS AT THE SAME TIME.

4. also when you turn off your car, do you set it in neutral then put your emergency brake on, or do you put it in 1 and put emergency brake on? i don't understand this. is there anything else i need to know? thanks.

If you leave the car in either first or reverse, the compression of the stopped engine will be enough to hold the car in place on flat ground.
The parking brake is also good to use if the weather is moderate.
In freezing temps, park on flat ground, with the car in gear.
If you must park on a hill, also turn your wheels into the curb, so that the car will be stopped from rolling down hill by the tires hitting the curb.
 

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