Realistic? NO, fun....sure!

T

turbohayabusa

13
United States
United States
I didn't realize quite how bad the physics are in this game until my supra with 940hp and nitrous went 310mph w/out any drafting. Straight line physics would be the easy part, I can't imagine how incorrect the handling is compared to real life. Still a fun game, but to call it a simulator is misleading when its not even CLOSE to realistic.

Has anyone else experienced similar things? I have a lot of real world experience with roll racing fast cars, so it bums me out that the performance of the cars in the game do not reflect their real world counterparts. Although maybe this game isn't geared for guys that really know cars, and more directed to the age group without a license.
 
I think the issue is related to aero, rather than actual car movement physics. Those seem to be a very big step in the right direction for realism.
 
If the aero is off up top, you better believe it is off down low. Overall, it does make a big difference on the tracks since all the speeds at which a car enter/exit corners is incorrect. I can't imagine how the handling is correct since they couldn't get the speed correct.

If a car is entering a corner at an unrealistically speed, it will exit the corner at an unrealistic mph and so fourth. By the time you complete a lap you have a very unrealistic time.
 
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The handling physics are correct, meaning if you attack a corner at ridiculous speeds you'll have a rather large accident.
 
turbohayabusa
I didn't realize quite how bad the physics are in this game until my supra with 940hp and nitrous went 310mph w/out any drafting. Straight line physics would be the easy part, I can't imagine how incorrect the handling is compared to real life. Still a fun game, but to call it a simulator is misleading when its not even CLOSE to realistic.

Has anyone else experienced similar things? I have a lot of real world experience with roll racing fast cars, so it bums me out that the performance of the cars in the game do not reflect their real world counterparts. Although maybe this game isn't geared for guys that really know cars, and more directed to the age group without a license.
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I personally couldn't agree more.. It's been a bit of a turn off on GT6 for me.
I thought GT5 was a bit more accurate in that department.
I could live with a lil over but some of these are just silly.
The Supra is a fine example..
I remember when I pulled out my 98 VR4 3000GT and hit 270mph thinking Wth is going on here?!
It's like no air resistance exists in this version of GT.
These are basic things that shouldn't be in here or overlooked. I don't understand how there isn't a limiter put in by PD that stop cars from reaching unrealistic speeds. A 3000GT no matter what you've done to it isn't going to best a Veyron in top speed! Ill gear all day long but I should still be put to a cut off point that is more realistic for a game with the slogan.. "the real driving simulator"
:odd:
 
Aerodynamics simulation's never been GT's forte. Remember the 550 kph Toyota 88C in GT4? Or the 470kph Peugeot 908 in this iteration of the series. Those cars are fast (technically speaking, Group C racecars were capable of doing >400 kph with a low downforce, high boost setup) but there's no way they could be THAT fast with the rear spoiler generating copious amounts of drag.

The handling model is quite realistic. But air resistance is almost non-existent, and this probably won't change as long as PD doesn't decide to focus on improving the aerodynamic model. They wouldn't have a problem accessing a wind tunnel and detailed data through their various collaborations with Nissan and Red Bull, tho, so why they haven't done that already baffles me.

P.S: some cars seem to suffer more from this. Someone should do a list of unassuming bullet cars.
 
turbohayabusa
I didn't realize quite how bad the physics are in this game until my supra with 940hp and nitrous went 310mph w/out any drafting. Straight line physics would be the easy part, I can't imagine how incorrect the handling is compared to real life. Still a fun game, but to call it a simulator is misleading when its not even CLOSE to realistic.

Has anyone else experienced similar things? I have a lot of real world experience with roll racing fast cars, so it bums me out that the performance of the cars in the game do not reflect their real world counterparts. Although maybe this game isn't geared for guys that really know cars, and more directed to the age group without a license.
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I think with those extremes, all bets are off. Take an off the peg S2000 and lap around Brands Hatch and then come back with some comments.

Personally, with sensible tyres and power levels, it's pretty good. Probably the most natural feeling yet it the GT series.
 
turbohayabusa
I didn't realize quite how bad the physics are in this game until my supra with 940hp and nitrous went 310mph w/out any drafting. Straight line physics would be the easy part, I can't imagine how incorrect the handling is compared to real life. Still a fun game, but to call it a simulator is misleading when its not even CLOSE to realistic.

Has anyone else experienced similar things? I have a lot of real world experience with roll racing fast cars, so it bums me out that the performance of the cars in the game do not reflect their real world counterparts. Although maybe this game isn't geared for guys that really know cars, and more directed to the age group without a license.
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Since you know so much about cars' top speed, do you care to calculate the top speed this car of yours should actually achieve? Do you know how much power the nitro you put in the car produces?

I still haven't done much testing but the one I did was actually better than GT5. I fitted a custom transmission to the McLaren F1 and adjusted the ratios like in real life because the stock ratios are wrong. The top speed was about 367 kph (228 mph) which is much closer than it was in GT5 (I don't remember how much I got in the same condition). And actually it's pretty accurate if you consider that the car only got to 386 kph (240 mph) IRL because of the limiter removal and the ram air of the engine.

I intend to make more tests with cars in stock mode, since you got to have something to compare to.
 
Don't really see the problem with the physics. If you do the maths yourself, and assuming optimal gearing, that Supra is perhaps 8 to 20% percent off, depending on the values you assume for Cd and frontal area. Not bad for the extreme end of a model that is, yes, just used in a game. A +1000 HP car will be quick in a straight line, even with the aero properties of a G-Wagen.

The real issue is that a) there is no way you could extract that much power out of a 2JZ-GE for more than a few seconds and b) the Supra would probably disintegrate and/or flip at those speeds even before giving the engine a chance to grenade. Impossible to model that with the computing power of current consoles though.
 
turbohayabusa
If the aero is off up top, you better believe it is off down low. Overall, it does make a big difference on the tracks since all the speeds at which a car enter/exit corners is incorrect. I can't imagine how the handling is correct since they couldn't get the speed correct.

If a car is entering a corner at an unrealistically speed, it will exit the corner at an unrealistic mph and so fourth. By the time you complete a lap you have a very unrealistic time.
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No, you can't take corners too fast except the redbulls. It depends on track, car and driving aids you are using.
 
Id love to know how much BHP in real life to get a supra up too that velocity.

Haven't tested it here but Gt5 had different ideas for top speed am guessing on car shape , ie the Lexus 430 sc tuned could top out way above a lot of more powerful machines
 
I agree with the OP.
After trying Assetto Corsa (Early Access), which is only version 0.4.1 now, still a long way till final release, GT6 seems like miles away in terms of simulation. Actually GT6 fails at graphics and sounds too, compared to AC. But it does have pluses, like huge player base, 1200+ cars, 37 tracks though.

"The Real Driving Simulator" ? Sure, but only for consoles, because there is nothing better on consoles. But I still like it and it's indeed a lot of fun.
 
Kolbenkopp
If you do the maths yourself, and assuming optimal gearing, that Supra is perhaps 8 to 20% percent off <...>
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Hm. Assuming you have twenty kilometers of space and impossibly long gears. Both are a possibility in GT6.

As for the 350 kph 'vette, I call shenanigans on that.
 
Even though it is the closest thing to a racing sim on the consoles it is still a game. If you want to play a real sim then try something like iRacing. As you said GT-6 is fun and it is close enough to a sim that it is not totally ridiculous. That being said; it would be nice if they did better aero drag modeling.
 
PAKFA
I agree with the OP.
After trying Assetto Corsa (Early Access), which is only version 0.4.1 now, still a long way till final release, GT6 seems like miles away in terms of simulation. Actually GT6 fails at graphics and sounds too, compared to AC. But it does have pluses, like huge player base, 1200+ cars, 37 tracks though.

"The Real Driving Simulator" ? Sure, but only for consoles, because there is nothing better on consoles. But I still like it and it's indeed a lot of fun.
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Well said. At the end of the day it is a fun game if nothing else, and when GT7 comes out I will buy that too. Just a bummer the realism isn't there. I feel like GT6 is stuck in car game limbo, its not realistic and its not full on arcady.
 
Many people have had complaints with SSRX, I think that has glitched aero more so than other tracks.
 
i have been comparing the nissan skyline gtr (bnr34) vs the supra (jza80) for a while in gran turismo games. i learned that the supra in gt has lower air ressistance than the skyline gtr in those games at least. i remember reducing the downforce in gt4s supra and using nitro i could achieve 300 mph (483 kph aprox) easly, but the gtr handles better and has more grip.

It seems that the supra has lower air ressistance than many of the gt cars. maybe that's why the supra is able to reach such high speeds.

correct me if i'm wrong.
 
I agree with you that the top speeds are unrealistic, and need to be fixed, but that's only a single issue.

Just because one thing is wrong doesn't mean everything else is.

You spread a lot of pessimism, yet fail to present proof of any kind.

The handling is quite possibly the best in the series so far, especially after seeing the willow springs comparison video with Dai Yoshihara.
 
I think he thinks that the aero is part of the movement physics, and they therefore directly affect each other.
 
Gentleman it is very easy to find out, I will buy an ACR Viper and see how it does on the ring, in real life it did a 7:22.1 with a pro driver.
A better test will be this, a stock ZR1 & 2013 SRT Viper on Mazda, in real life pro driver Randy Pobst hit a max speed in a ZR1 of 140.4 mph on the straight and the SRT Viper hit 138.4. SRT Viper produced a lap time of 1:35.77 and the ZR1 ran a 1:33.70. Since neither cars come close to their top speed which appears to be "the only flaw" as it relates to the games real life counterparts. The lap times & max speed on the straight should be VERY close to the exact same right?
 
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The sad thing is that if it really is a flawed aerodynamic system that's causing this, then PD has no other choice but to readjust all target times and opponent AI for all challenges if they are to increase global air resistance. It would take a long amount of time for them to re-test every event to get an optimal target time for each. Given them, I don't see either of these fixes happening.
 
This much I think is critical to the game's credibility. I have on-line friends who drive stock cars at Nurburgring.
Their time are very good. However, they should not be able to beat the official time of any car on that course.
And for that matter, any real world course in the game. It's also vital that top speeds of stock models are proper.
Top speed on straights should be pretty close using the specified rubber.

That brings me to tires. Tires used for manufactures curcit testing can vary. Just make sure the tires are included in the game. And if you want to run on comfort level tires more power to you. Just expect your lap time to be slower than if you ran the same lap with sport or racing rubber.

Car/Racing people can almost tell you how much you will gain from certian tuning. Just keep the gains conservite and away from over the top. Utilize racing pro's to perdict what tuning results should be. Over the tunes are for Arcade races. And dont forget the tunning houses, RUF, Callaway, Roush, TRD, NISMO Hennessey and the like.
That type of over the top and building replicas is what counts.
 
turbohayabusa
Well said. At the end of the day it is a fun game if nothing else, and when GT7 comes out I will buy that too. Just a bummer the realism isn't there. I feel like GT6 is stuck in car game limbo, its not realistic and its not full on arcady.
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It's not even a good game either, the track selection is the only thing GT has going on for it now.
 
Very subjective, but I would not want total realism in a GT game.

The problem with all driving sims so far is that they are still light years off the real experience. Assetto Corsa just can't give you the sensations you have in a car, even if you are lucky to have a rig that mimics dynamics by moving the seat around a bit. It is still all very very fake, only a little less so.

And with just a bit of force feedback in the wheel, I don't see the point honestly. IMO, the more the rest of the simulation is accurate the more the driving experience will be frustrating, as key sensory input is just not reproducible at home. Bit like trying to explain the beauty of Opera to a deaf person. You can see the performance, but without the music, something essential is missing...

And just imagine a fully accurate sim + rig. Sounds like the holy grail, but if you do not *devote* your entire life to driving, be prepared to be many, many seconds off the real life pros, even in the most mundane kit. Also be prepared to not being able to handle a Super GT car, let alone a Group C monster. And don't even start thinking of F1.

I hear the calls: "but I have the skills, so sorry you don't". Well then why do it in a sim? Price of a good PC plus rig isn't far away from that of an old Miata or an entry level kart. Go out and do it. Trust me, the graphics are stupendous, and don't get me started on the 3D ;).

I think GT6 is quite entertaining. For me it hits the sweet spot of semi credible driving dynamics, accurate enough tracks and huge selection of cars. Of course there is biiiig room for improvement, but I'm OK with what we have already and looking forward to the next months and the updates to come.
 

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