Relationship Between DR and SR

B

Bengalryan9

16
NKURyan
So maybe this is a stupid question, but...

My interpretation was that the two were both a measure of 2 different things as far as racing was concerned: DR was more a measure of where you tended to place in a race, while SR is more of an indication of how clean you are as a racer. So someone who races dirty but places well would be like a DR:A, SR:D, while a clean racer who isn't very good yet could be DR:E, SR:B.

And yet you can clearly lose DR if you have am unclean race. Today on the Blue Moon Gr.3 race I was in there was quite a lot of contact since the field was so close for the whole race. By the end, literally every single racer (except for the one guy who kept well in front of the pack for the majority) had red SRs and dropped a rank or two. Ok, fine, whatever. But my DR also dropped... despite climbing my way up from the back of the grid to finish in the top 5. That just doesn't seem right to me.

I'm more or less to the point where I just don't stress about my SR - I try to race as cleanly as I can, but I realize that a lot of that is just out of my control sometimes and my SR is going to do whatever it does no matter what I do. But I was proud of the fact that I had my DR up to a B (I know, I'm sure a lot of you are way better than me), and that I was consistently finishing in the top 5 at that rank. I really have improved since starting to play and my DR seemed like a good indicator of that. I felt like I was getting matched with those at an even level as me and I was getting exciting races, but now I'm bumped back down to being matched with Ds and Es and the races just aren't as close/exciting at that level and any points I'll earn in the championships are completely neutered. That kind of bums me out.

So if the two ratings impact each other, why are they separate at all? Again, maybe it's a stupid question, but I'm curious what others experiences have been. IMO either treat them as two separate things or combine them into 1 rating IMO (though I'd rather they just be entirely separate).
 
It's possible you didn't climb high enough to raise your DR. The game picks a "theoretical" predicted finish place for you and if you finish below it, you lose DR. If you finish above it, you gain DR.

In your case, it's possible the game thought you would finish even higher up the field.

I think @Scaff has been doing some extensive research on this?
 
In those tutorial messages that can be toggled on/off, it says something about SR requirements to progress through the DR levels. I don't know what your SR is, but if it could be too low for that DR level.
 
MikeTheHockeyFan
It's possible you didn't climb high enough to raise your DR. The game picks a "theoretical" predicted finish place for you and if you finish below it, you lose DR. If you finish above it, you gain DR.

In your case, it's possible the game thought you would finish even higher up the field.

I think @Scaff has been doing some extensive research on this?
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I've seen the theory, but the number it assigned me for the race was 11 or 12 (it was definitely in the teens), so I don't think that's the case here?

Woodybobs
In those tutorial messages that can be toggled on/off, it says something about SR requirements to progress through the DR levels. I don't know what your SR is, but if it could be too low for that DR level.
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I started the race B/B and finished at C/D. I'm sure what you're saying is probably true, but I still don't think it really makes sense.
 
In on DR- B SR- B right now. I placed 6th on interlagos from 16th place and my DR rating only went up a tiny pixel but an up rating is up none the less.
 
jagenigma
In on DR- B SR- B right now. I placed 6th on interlagos from 16th place and my DR rating only went up a tiny pixel but an up rating is up none the less.
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How can you tell if your ratings go up or down?
I have been away and now there is a bar graph with three yellow bars:crazy: most others have green. (Beside my name in Sport). I am C S.
What are the bars?
and after the race it says you have 4 more points or something. Can someone point me to the info where I can find out all this stuff. or is it or irrelevant?
thanks
 
Meggle
How can you tell if your ratings go up or down?
I have been away and now there is a bar graph with three yellow bars.
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The green/yellow/red bars would be your latency (documented in patch notes).
The game shows change of ratings via colour for SR after a race, and as a bar for DR in your profile.
 
Thanks to @Milouse and his script and investigations, we know that moving up a DR letter is limited by the SR letter - e.g. you can't move up into DR C if you have SR D (or less). We haven't seen any indication that it will knock you down in DR if your SR level falls.

jesQuick
DR is most certainly dependent on SR. If you're dirty enough, you will go down in DR. I've been there.
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Well, was that with good finishes, or would you have lost DR anyway due to finishing low down the order?
 
Outspacer
Thanks to @Milouse and his script and investigations, we know that moving up a DR letter is limited by the SR letter - e.g. you can't move up into DR C if you have SR D (or less). We haven't seen any indication that it will knock you down in DR if your SR level falls.
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Interesting, I didn't know it limited you. It makes sense though. Top 10 are nearly all SR S. DR and SR do generally go hand in hand. The race pace, say between SR B and SR S, is dramatically different.
 
BigDawg_1281
Interesting, I didn't know it limited you. It makes sense though. Top 10 are nearly all SR S. DR and SR do generally go hand in hand. The race pace, say between SR B and SR S, is dramatically different.
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Well if you start on pole and shoot off into the distance, it's pretty easy to be clean!! SR B is where everybody starts, so no surprise that it's a lot slower, on average. I do think that having good pace - therefore likely to increase DR - really helps to increase SR, even for non-aliens. You then have more choice - to be patient, to take 'safer' lines through corners (avoiding rammers), to let a driver who looks reckless past - with more confidence that some positions will come back to you as the race goes on.
 
Outspacer
Well if you start on pole and shoot off into the distance, it's pretty easy to be clean!! SR B is where everybody starts, so no surprise that it's a lot slower, on average. I do think that having good pace - therefore likely to increase DR - really helps to increase SR, even for non-aliens. You then have more choice - to be patient, to take 'safer' lines through corners (avoiding rammers), to let a driver who looks reckless past - with more confidence that some positions will come back to you as the race goes on.
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Yeah, if you run off with the lead from pole you should get clean race everytime.

I remember SR B can be pretty rough at times. You have to constantly worry about others hitting you and try to be fast. I was still worried when I first got to SR S. Now, I just race. I've been at S awhile. I know I can focus on racing, being fast and trying to get by the driver in front of me. I don't worry about other drivers trying to wreck me or being stupid. Sure, I get bumped and what not... It happens. But, people are respectful and clean. The races are much faster and more enjoyable.
 
Outspacer
Thanks to @Milouse and his script and investigations, we know that moving up a DR letter is limited by the SR letter - e.g. you can't move up into DR C if you have SR D (or less). We haven't seen any indication that it will knock you down in DR if your SR level falls.



Well, was that with good finishes, or would you have lost DR anyway due to finishing low down the order?
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Pretty sure I wouldn't have lost 1 full rating (B to D) if I hadn't racked up the orange numbers. That has never happened to me before, even if I've driven like a bag of potatoes....
 
Bengalryan9
I've seen the theory, but the number it assigned me for the race was 11 or 12 (it was definitely in the teens), so I don't think that's the case here?
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Door numbers are only accurate for rooms with DR B and above. If your room has any DR C/D drivers the door numbers will not represent an accurate order based on raw DR score. PD appears to be sorting DR as text instead of numerical values to assign the door numbers, so low DR drivers with DR scores of 9, 7687, 824, 9733, etc... get lower door numbers than S/A/B drivers with DR scores of 59603, 42982, 23376, 11567etc... I've only looked in detail at 5 races, but in each of those cases, this pattern held true. The current design would assign these hypothetical DR scores with the following door numbers.
  1. 9733, DR C
  2. 9, DR D
  3. 824, DR D
  4. 7687, DR C
  5. 59603, DR S
  6. 42982, DR A
  7. 23376, DR B
  8. 11576, DR B
I have no idea if this is having any impact on people's actual DR scores. I do know that I've finished higher than my door number and lost DR, so hopefully the only impact is cosmetic.

Until it's fixed I wouldn't worry about door numbers unless you're in S/A/B exclusive rooms.
 
jesQuick
Pretty sure I wouldn't have lost 1 full rating (B to D) if I hadn't racked up the orange numbers. That has never happened to me before, even if I've driven like a bag of potatoes....
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It's something we will have to look out for... well I say 'we', but I mean Milouse really, who is looking at some historical data. It could be that if your SR drops too far below your DR then it will drag DR down with it. From memory I've seen DR=B with SR=C, and DR=C with SR=D etc, but I don't think I've seen any further apart.
 
Outspacer
It's something we will have to look out for... well I say 'we', but I mean Milouse really, who is looking at some historical data. It could be that if your SR drops too far below your DR then it will drag DR down with it. From memory I've seen DR=B with SR=C, and DR=C with SR=D etc, but I don't think I've seen any further apart.
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Yep, totally anecdotal. Only happened once so there could be several other factors. I do believe there's a very strong correlation between the two - which makes good sense, btw.
 
machine1121
Door numbers are only accurate for rooms with DR B and above. If your room has any DR C/D drivers the door numbers will not represent an accurate order based on raw DR score. PD appears to be sorting DR as text instead of numerical values to assign the door numbers, so low DR drivers with DR scores of 9, 7687, 824, 9733, etc... get lower door numbers than S/A/B drivers with DR scores of 59603, 42982, 23376, 11567etc... I've only looked in detail at 5 races, but in each of those cases, this pattern held true. The current design would assign these hypothetical DR scores with the following door numbers.
  1. 9733, DR C
  2. 9, DR D
  3. 824, DR D
  4. 7687, DR C
  5. 59603, DR S
  6. 42982, DR A
  7. 23376, DR B
  8. 11576, DR B
I have no idea if this is having any impact on people's actual DR scores. I do know that I've finished higher than my door number and lost DR, so hopefully the only impact is cosmetic.

Until it's fixed I wouldn't worry about door numbers unless you're in S/A/B exclusive rooms.
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Did you manually fetch driver points for all participants in 5 races? If so, have one on me! :cheers:

Now all we need is before and after driver points for everyone in an interesting race or two, along with start and finish positions. Then we could possibly work out the DR adjustment algorithm. #howhardcanitbe

jesQuick
Yep, totally anecdotal. Only happened once so there could be several other factors. I do believe there's a very strong correlation between the two - which makes good sense, btw.
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Could easily be that SR two steps down is enough to drag DR down 1 or 2 steps, as you say, it makes sense. That I haven't seen any further apart than 1 step supports it, but hopefully we'll know for sure soon.
 
Outspacer
Did you manually fetch driver points for all participants in 5 races?
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I couldn't figure out how to find profile pages based solely off PSN ID. I just took the DR ranks from screen grabs of the starting grid and mapped them to driver numbers from the replay. Also I waited until I was all done racing before I compiled all the data, so the DR scores wouldn't be accurate for the time of the race.

Groups of drivers that were observed in multiple races had the same relative sequence of door numbers. SS drivers were always lower door numbers than AS, and AS were always lower door numbers than BS. CS were always lower door numbers than both AS and BS, but could be higher or lower than SS (this could occur for some AS/CS scenarios, since the DR C threshold was lowered to 4000 in the update). DS were all over the place.
 
machine1121
I couldn't figure out how to find profile pages based solely off PSN ID. I just took the DR ranks from screen grabs of the starting grid and mapped them to driver numbers from the replay. Also I waited until I was all done racing before I compiled all the data, so the DR scores wouldn't be accurate for the time of the race.

Groups of drivers that were observed in multiple races had the same relative sequence of door numbers. SS drivers were always lower door numbers than AS, and AS were always lower door numbers than BS. CS were always lower door numbers than both AS and BS, but could be higher or lower than SS (this could occur for some AS/CS scenarios, since the DR C threshold was lowered to 4000 in the update). DS were all over the place.
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Well done! I've just checked out a few replays and I haven't seen any that go against this theory. I thought I had for a moment - cars 1 to 4 were C, C, D, S - but then if the D was down in the high 100s it still fits :)
 
MikeTheHockeyFan
It's possible you didn't climb high enough to raise your DR. The game picks a "theoretical" predicted finish place for you and if you finish below it, you lose DR. If you finish above it, you gain DR.

In your case, it's possible the game thought you would finish even higher up the field.

I think @Scaff has been doing some extensive research on this?
Click to expand...


"the game picks a "theoretical" predicted finish place for you" ????? And is there a way to know (before the race starts) which place is that????
 
Mirror_man
"the game picks a "theoretical" predicted finish place for you" ????? And is there a way to know (before the race starts) which place is that????
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Other games does this, fx Overwatch. (Although they are in the process of changing this for the higher ranked players).
 
phl0w
The green/yellow/red bars would be your latency (documented in patch notes).
The game shows change of ratings via colour for SR after a race, and as a bar for DR in your profile.
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Start 10th finish 5th and it says
"Conrats raised position 4 points"

What does this mean?
 
Do you known anyone with DR above B??? (like A... or S??) I´ve only found guys the most with DR B!!!! If so could you give us info of what is his "codename" ?? Please?
 
Mirror_man
Congratulations, dude! :)
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BigDawg_1281
Congrats! :cheers:
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Thanks guys, and congrats to you too, Dawg! :cheers:

Now I'm gonna ramble a bit about it, the matchmaking, and door numbers...

The first few races were about half and half DR As and Bs (all SR S), and since I was the lowest rated A driver I could guess my door number every time. Turned out I'd hadn't qualified as well as it expected, started one place down from my door number, and mostly finished there too. The Bs close to me were pretty damn quick as well. So my DR points took a gentle slide :nervous:

Funny thing is, I don't recall ever being put in a race like that while I was a B, and I was a high B for quite a while :confused:

But following those As around I must've learned something (still not sure what exactly), and took a whole second off my quali time :) Eager for the next race, then disappointed to find I was only one place ahead of my door number! But, I held it (maybe even gained a place) and DR started going up again... phew!

The last few races (getting rather late) it was as if the matchmaking switched to a different mode - now I was one of a small number of DR:A rabbits to a mixed field of mostly Bs, some Cs, and the odd D. Got a pole and win from one of those. In those, the 'bugged door number' theory still held up - I wasn't able to predict my exact door number, but could say what range it would be within, and it always was. I'm guessing I started in my expected position for some of them, maybe one place above in a couple. Solid DR gains, but impossible to say if they were larger than they should've been (in case the scoring was in any way based on the bugged door number) - I suspect not.

Overall DR:A seems like a pretty good fun place to be 👍
 

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