Religion rant/question

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MazKid

MazKid

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Well, first off, don't get pissed at me if I bring up some bad topics or something. I am not a religious person, so this doesn't hurt my feelings and it shouldn't hurt your's.

On the way home from a crappy supper tonight, we passed by the 2 churches(not the chicken place, unfortunatly) on the main road that our street is off of, and both of them have those signs that you put the letters in for a message deal, and the first one said something to the effect of "Save yourself from your sins. Seek God and Jesus". My dad said "That's kinda mean, they blame people before they even go to the church". Then, the 2nd one said "Sins are terrible. Jesus will show you the way to a better life" or something like that, and I started to think.

We get these religious TV ads here in STL(always for a Christian religion), and they always say something like "Seek Jesus, he'll help you" and crap like that.

So I have come to the conclusion. Christianity(atleast as I see it, and here in STL) relies a lot on Jesus, who was Jewish(and I am too, but religion is a miniscule part of my life, and I like it that way). Then you step back to take a bigger look. Why does a religion have to advertise? They do TV ads, TV programs, bill boards, flyiers, even door to door. Does this make sense? They are basically selling off a religion, or something you should believe in.

Since STL also has a big amount of Jewish people, I can compare the 2 religions as I see them, and I have never ever seen a TV ad directly for Judaism(there's a child's house hospital type thing(dating back to the '40s), and also several hospitals that run ads, but they don't advertise the religion), no billboards, no door to door people, no mail ads(though we get a whole lotta crap from our temple, but it's not ads), and no message signs.

So is there something about Chritianity that they need to advertise to get more members of thier religion? And why do they bash the very people they want to join thier religion?
 
I'll have to give it more thought, but I've never understood it either myself (notice how atheism rarely has anyting in the way of "advertising"?). My personal opinion is that they're a bit insecure about it all, and so need such ways to get people to join and think that it's the "only way".

However, one could also argue that they're sincerely trying to help people by converting them. (I won't be the one to argue that though ;))
 
I think they do it to make people feel guilty, and it preys on people who are insecure...
 
Yea that's what I thought. I just didn't know if anyone agreed with me, but you guys do.

In Judaism, people are told to take care of thier own problems(well, you can pray and stuff), but in Christianity, they say "help yourself..." but then say that Jesus will help you and all that.

I'm more towards atheism too, though I'd rather be Jewish than Christian(sorry, but fat bearded men bringing gifts and an egg-laying rabbit just doesn't sound like a good religion for me), not bashing on Christians at all.

It's wierd though.
 
to me, christianity is a virus. christians just can't leave others alone it seems, they always want to spread their beliefs to others.

thats just me though. (no offense to any christians)
 
Meh, i consider myself atheist although i go to a catholic school (hey, it's better than a public school).
 
Originally posted by MazKid
Yea that's what I thought. I just didn't know if anyone agreed with me, but you guys do.

In Judaism, people are told to take care of thier own problems(well, you can pray and stuff), but in Christianity, they say "help yourself..." but then say that Jesus will help you and all that.

I'm more towards atheism too, though I'd rather be Jewish than Christian(sorry, but fat bearded men bringing gifts and an egg-laying rabbit just doesn't sound like a good religion for me), not bashing on Christians at all.

It's wierd though.
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Ryan,
Let me try to answer some of the questions you have put forth. Take or leave my opinions, I do not mean to offend. Though, I'm sure that I will rub someone the wrong way. *SORRY* Secondly, allow me to apologize for all those "christians" out there that seem to have forgetten about the love of Jesus, and preach only about the "Guilt of Sin"
To address the first question, from the first post; In the last chapter of the book of Matthew, Christians are directed to go out and teach and preach and basically "convert" the world.
As far as Jesus being Jewish that is correct. He was indeed born a Jew. He was however, reviled by his people as a heretic, and a fake. No one wanted to believe that the Messiah would come so humbly and peacefully.
Santa and the Easter Bunny are NOT a part of Christianity.
In Christian homes the emphasis is less on Christmas. Easter is the biggie, due to what it reprsents. Yea we give presents and all that on Christmas, but the central theme is the birth of the son of God.
Easter, is not about the bunny. It's about the resurrection of Jesus. We (Christians) believe that he died on the cross for our sins, and was raised from the dead three days later. Good Friday represents the day of the crucifixion (sp), and Easter Sunday represents the day He arose from the dead.
As far as belief in myself and my own ability. I can see why elderly agnostics are so bitter, having little strengh of their own now that they've grown old and frail... Paul or Peter said in the Bible "I can do all things, thru Him that strengthens me". My father used to say that the I-A-N at the end of Christian was significant because without Christ, I Am Nothing.
I really don't have any clue where Santa the Bunny came from.
Who would come up with a rabbit that carries around, and hides a bunch of eggs. It sounds like he started as the Easter pack-rat.:lol:
 
I think the egg comes from a symbol of new life, but i have no idea where the bunny came from...Santa was just started named after St. Nicholas, i don't know any more on that...
 
Ah! Religion. Its so confusing, and worse, people can fight over religion, use it as a weapon and hide behind it.
 
Okay, I'm an agnostic - I believe in the God of motor racing ;) - but apart from that, I'm pretty much an athiest, so I'll go with DtV in saying that this whole religious system preys on people who are insecure.
 
I am an atheist. More and more people are becoming Atheist in the this world because people are starting to realise how bad religion is for the global community and religion doesnt hold as true to day as it did hundreds of years ago. People can find a purpose these days and we know more about the world. I am really tired, and I'm probably not making much sense. But I've thought this out for over 10 years, pretty much everyday. Its pretty much undeniable to me that theres no way Christianity has any merit. I dont believe in anything.


What you see is what you get. We still dont understand everything, but we're on the right track. We have a lot of things to figure out but the world is unfolding before our very eyes. I am sure that there are still mysteries in space we'll never see or figure out. And surely the human brain is much more powerful than people thought. But if you accept the world as it is you can live in peace and have faith in the goodness of people. Bring joy to yourself by being nice to people and making everyone feel good. Thats what I do and it gives you a satisfying feeling when you do it alot. (Most of us here) Are the age that is going to change the world over the next few years as we start to take over as the productive adults with the majority of the income. We need to keep a goal on unity between everyone on Earth and just celebrating what we have in common. Live every day to the fullest and never hold back. Try to experience everything you can.

;)
 
Gil. I agree with everything you said.
12 sec. Actually Christianity is growing in the US and other religions (including Christianity) are gaining more and more popularity throughout the world.
 
I think that there's a real hard core of Christians who believe that their way is the only way, and thus feel the need to 'convert' everyone they see.

I was interested to read Gil's "I Am Nothing" paragraph. This to me (although it is not in accordance with my own beliefs) is some thing that I can respect. If you compare it to the advertising fanatics, you could say that the fanatics (I use the word to denote their fervour, not in any derogatory way) are "Christyan"s, as in "Without Christ, You Are Nothing", which seems to be the core of their message.
 
As a Christian I don't necessarily believe my way is the only way. There are many ways as long as they go through Christ. But I do agree with you Giles that there are many who seem to believe more in the doctrine than in Christ. I can think of a few religions that believe in either works, A certain day of the week being the Sabath, ect.... will get them into heavan rather than believing in faith in Jesus. They get all hung up on the law rather than the law giver.Their way is the only way. In the Church I go to the Pastor will never talk bad about another Christian religion and doesn't tolerate it when others do it either.We don't think it's important how you get to Christ as much as we just think it's important that you get there.
The thief hanging on the cross beside Jesus didn't go to church or do works but he still made it.All he had to do was ask.
 
As a fallen catholic who hasn't gotten up yet I understand very little of religion. I have always studied history and the sciences so most of the religion that was hammered into me was met only by questions . I was told that was why it was called a faith. Christianity represents a broad range of diverse faiths the common denominator being the beleif in Christ as God. Most Christian religions if not all ask you to witness or preach your faith to others . I gather someone decided that TV adds were acceptable ways to do this.
I've got to say that some of the nicest most decent people I have ever had the privilage to meet are deeply religouse and of all faiths . So maybe there's something to it. I'm still waiting I guess for a phone call or something.
 
Originally posted by youth_cycler
(notice how atheism rarely has anyting in the way of "advertising"?).
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Atheism doesn't need to advertise - it's already the fastest-growing religion in the world. :)
 
heh Doug.

Gil, 12 sec, Giles, DGB, thanks for the explainations.

Well...I can start a new religion...Mazdaism as in the believe in the sun God Mazda Ahora. ;) Though I am in the religion in a passifistic way...(cause praying to anything seems wrong to me, I believe that personal problems can be dealt with by the person...)

There's also another thing...
You ever watch the news? There's someone that was saved from injury or something, and there's always someone that says "Thank you Jesus", meaning that Jesus is the reason for this good event to take place, yet if a bad thing happens, no one mentions Jesus. I would break out laughing if someone who was injured or something said "Jesus failed me again, I donno where he was but he didn't help me at all.", but I assume if someone did that they would be excommunicated and possibly been the victom of hate crimes.

And I'm not saying that Judaism is the best religion, cause I have conficts in it too, though most are due to my temple's crappiness(as in the place itself), which has problems with ants, spiders, all kinds of bugs, and what I find supremely hilarious, is the temple's Tree of Life(the tree of life in teaching is where everyone came from, like Abraham and all that, though I rarely thought it was true)is a used duel tailpipe muffler from(it looks like anyway) an early '90s V6 Accord, and it's etched with a design and has copper crap coming out of tail pipes, and when I mentioned it in Sunday school(when I went, which was before I was 13(and was bar mitzvahed), and it was the worst, though at the end of each day, my dad would pick me up in either the '82 Maxima or GSL-SE, and we would go sideways out of the parking lot :) ), the teacher said "uh no it's not...that's...that's artwork.". Funny though.
 
Well, I'm Catholic, so I don't really side myself with too many Christians, other than Catholics, but that's just me. There aren't any churches, or too many churches, that have those types of messages on their boards. In fact, I don't think many of the churches around here even have those boards.
The whole thing about gift-giving for Christmas is a relatively new thing, started in the late 1800's. It began because fathers all bought these books about Christmas, and gave them as gifts to their children in either the late 1800's or the early 1900's, but I'm leaning toward the first. Like said above, people that have surpassed the Age of Reason don't focus their holidays on the giftgiving, but more of the family aspect now. I've given up on asking for too many gifts for Christmas, all I ask for are lame things because my parents pressure me to make a list of what I want, so I make it things like a sweater, pens, school supplies, etc. But I focus on the religious aspect quite a bit more than the people around me. I guess most of it is because my brother and sister don't go to Mass any more, unless they're dragged to it, when here I am, asking if my mom wants to go to Mass(seeing that my dad is Lutheran and only goes to church on an occasional Holiday, I never ask him.)
I agree that the people thinking that their whole purpose in life is to convert people to their thinking is just utter annoyance. I don't care what you believe in, if you believe. Just have respect for other people's ideals and beliefs, and I'll be cool with you. If you're an athiest, don't go around bashing God or any religion, because it's just annoying and asshole. If you believe in something, don't go around demanding people to "Believe!", because it's just annoying and stupid. People are stubborn and won't change.
 
Judaism just doesn't actively missionize anymore. That wasn't necessarily the case some 2200 years ago, but things have changed, I suppose.

Figure it this way, Maz...The best things aren't said, the second-best things are misunderstood. Be thankful there isn't a lot of propaganda and noise about becoming Jewish. Religion and Faith is not something you just walk into a store and buy at the checkout counter (unless you're a Scientologist).

Another analogy; the Buddha always was depicted with his hand open with a small object in it; he had nothing to hide, no hidden messages. Those that would want what he had to offer could "easily take hold of it" and understand it, if you will.
 
Meh... so many long posts. Guess I'll add mine. But first, as I said somewhere else recently, I've never seen a religious conversion on GTP. That makes arguing about this pointless because "winning" would only amount to that.

My wife and I are very good friends with a family who are born again Christian. They go to some evangelical church, have sworn off Santa and Halloween as Pagan, and do various other strange things. BUT... they are very kind, friendly and loving people who share so many of our values. Every time I see them I'm grateful they're our freinds.

But I worry. The woman really likes to talk sometimes all about her salvation, her "personal relationship with god" and her "lord and savior." She talks about her pastor and what a great guy he is and it's scary how she almost deifies him. She pontificates about the immorality of Halloween and how Santa is a big lie. Her husband (who obviously has never noticed my bookshelf (or maybe he has)) gives me books like Refuting Evolution.

I sometimes worry about loosing them as friends because of their strict Christian rules and regulations. I worry about our kids growing up and fighting over the existence of Santa with their's, and their parents telling them that we are immoral and wrong and spoiling it for our kids.

It seems that the most devoutly Christian are inevitably the most jugemental and closed minded; heh, silly me, I thought openness and non-jugement were Christian ideals.

If God is Love, we have plenty at my house. If God is bummer rules, confusing and impossible, ritualistic standards to meet and nonsensical no-no's then there is no place for it in our life. We don't need a stranger telling us what is moral, what is best for us, or how to love and forgive.

Christ was a great man, deserves his fame, and deserves to be remembered all this time. But he was a man. And I think there is more to be learned from the fact that a human being could be that powerful and beautiful in that way, than there could ever be in imagining a bunch of magic tricks or concocting irrelevant rules for "living."

Civilized people can live well together whatever their "beliefs." Call it God or call it Cosmos or call it Being. It all serves the same greater purpose we have yet to name. Those who would kill to make their preference the rule are the real evil ones . . . GEORGE. OSAMA.

The next step in history is already happening, and I'm glad to see it expressed in this thread... that religion will become part of the body of literature of history, that humanity will shake free of its silly fear of eternal damnation and find it was born with everything it needs, that it is beautiful "just because," no approval from imaginary beings (or their representatives) is necessary, and that rigid, violent, defensive, and coersive means, like religion, have the splintered the world long enough. This war is proving it to millions, win or loose. This war's real value in history will be what it taught the Christian world ("Christian" as heratige only) about itself. Even traditions learn from their mistakes.

Unfortunately the Islamic world is a few hundred years behind the Christian world in this.

And yes, the phenomenon of churches advertising are like the last desperate spasms of an asphyxiating fish on the back of a car.

Have a nice Lent.
 
No meat on Friday..( My sons being brought up Catholic per the wifes wishes ).. Whats up with the no meat thing anyway ? Anybody know ?
 
Originally posted by milefile
*snip*

1.) It seems that the most devoutly Christian are inevitably the most jugemental and closed minded; heh, silly me, I thought openness and non-jugement were Christian ideals.

2.) If God is Love, we have plenty at my house. If God is bummer rules, confusing and impossible, ritualistic standards to meet and nonsensical no-no's then there is no place for it in our life. We don't need a stranger telling us what is moral, what is best for us, or how to love and forgive.

3.) Christ was a great man, deserves his fame, and deserves to be remembered all this time. But he was a man. And I think there is more to be learned from the fact that a human being could be that powerful and beautiful in that way, than there could ever be in imagining a bunch of magic tricks or concocting irrelevant rules for "living."

*snip*
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1.) I know what you mean, unfortunately, people are still human and by no means perfect. You are currect, Christian ideals are forgiveness, love, and non-judgement. That is what a Christian should work towards and strive for. All these things will recipricate in time as they continue their spiritual walk with Christ. Unfortunately, as someone claims to be Christian, they are views as a represitative for the "whole", when actually they are just an individual trying to get through life like you and I.

2.) God IS love, and you'll find more "do" than "don't" in the bible. And let's face it, most of the "don't" are agiant the law, and agianst humanity for that matter. "Man is not judged by works alone", salvation is not garrentied by doing all the right stuff. Rather, through the acceptance of Christ as your personal savior, you will want to do the right thing as a direct result.....not the other way around.

3.)Couldn't agree with you more. That's the miracle of it all!

Mazkid,

I think Gil touched on it best. Jesus said to his deciples to be "Fisher's of Men". The media, billboards, leaflets, internet, radio, ect...are all tools now available to "Spread the Word of God". How they go about "Spreading the word" can be questionable, as well as their is questionable practices out there in the world today all in the name of God. You can find salvation through Christ's love, not by fear of eternal damnation.

:cheers:
 
First off, the term "Christianity" actually means "like Christ." No wonder it's gonna revolve around him and his actions. Second, all the "advertisements" are just ways of fulfilling the great comission (look it up, it's in the end of all the Gospels). Lastly, all thos things on the message-board thingies were right...
 
Originally posted by ledhed
No meat on Friday..( My sons being brought up Catholic per the wifes wishes ).. Whats up with the no meat thing anyway ? Anybody know ?
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I think it's a sign of fasting. I think it use to be that we couldn't eat meat on any friday, and that the no meat only during friday Lent and special days like Ash Wednesday is relatively new. I could be wrong though.
 
I hope you guys know that the Church used to be corrupt and still is today, an explanation pending.
 
Originally posted by rjensen11
I think it's a sign of fasting. I think it use to be that we couldn't eat meat on any friday, and that the no meat only during friday Lent and special days like Ash Wednesday is relatively new. I could be wrong though.
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You're right. It was changed at the Second Vatican Council. They changed a lot of stuff. They used to say mass with the priest's back to the congregation and all in Latin, too. I have a ninety something year old great uncle who converted to Greek Orthodoxy after that. He just couldn't accept the change.
 
Originally posted by askia47
I hope you guys know that the Church used to be corrupt and still is today, an explanation pending.
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Is this supposed to surprise us? Of course you're talkng about the Catholic church.
 
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