Renault suspended from European Grand Prix

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Cap'n Jack

Cap'n Jack

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GoldMineGutted
There doesn't seem to be any further information just yet. As an F1 fan, it's never good to see less cars on the starting grid, even if it is just one or two. :indiff: At least those people who predicted Piquet wouldn't race at the next GP were right.

The Renault team has been suspended from the European Grand Prix following a stewards' investigation at the Hungaroring on Sunday. The dramatic decision by the FIA-appointed stewards follows an incident which saw Fernando Alonso's wheel fly off his car.

With Renault, plus Ferrari and Red Bull, being called to the stewards, the news was announced as crowds continued to filter out of the Hungaroring.

Although no full report has yet been issued, the French team is believed to have breached sporting rules enough to warrant the full suspension from the race in Valencia.
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Source: http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/07/26/renault-suspended-from-next-grand-prix/
 
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I can see why Renault and Red Bull were called in for a chat but did I miss something Kimi did?

The wheel trim things should be banned. Why would you have something that can undo a wheel making the tether useless?
 
Milliethemutt
I can see why Renault and Red Bull were called in for a chat but did I miss something Kimi did?
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I think they were looking at his start - he looked as if he made a bit of a forceful move, but I didn't see him do anything wrong in the replay. Good decision to investigate the incident after the race though...

Milliethemutt
The wheel trim things should be banned. Why would you have something that can undo a wheel making the tether useless?
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I've always disliked them - always looked like an accident waiting to happen, and in the light of what happened to Felipe Massa this weekend, the Renault incident today couldn't have come at a worse time.
 
Very bad decision from the FIA. renault already were punished that fernando retired from the race.
 
Holdenhsvgtsr
They knownly let a dangerous car out on the track,they deserve everything they get:tup:
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They did? What makes you say that?

Renault didn't fail to put the wheel nut on properly on purpose. Missing wheels for this sort of error have happened plenty of times before. This is just a case of over reaction after the Massa accident.

Edit. I've looked at a replay and it looks as if the mechanic on that corner seemed to know something was wrong. Either way that's still no reason to exclude Renault.

Touring Mars
I think they were looking at his start - he looked as if he made a bit of a forceful move, but I didn't see him do anything wrong in the replay. Good decision to investigate the incident after the race though...


I've always disliked them - always looked like an accident waiting to happen, and in the light of what happened to Felipe Massa this weekend, the Renault incident today couldn't have come at a worse time.
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I agree about the wheel trims, they should be banned.

Regarding Kimi's start. I agreed with Webber's penalty at the last race as I thought his action was dangerous and as far as I'm concerned Kimi should have got the same. Different punishments for what is the same offence is not a good idea and make the FIA look silly.
 
Tired Tyres
They did? What makes you say that?

Renault didn't fail to put the wheel nut on properly on purpose. Missing wheels for this sort of error have happened plenty of times before. This is just a case of over reaction after the Massa accident.
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They knew it wasn't attached properly and still released him and the wheelman had NOT raised his hand and they told him not to stop when it came loose.
 
Yes I've just edited my post. That's still the act of two men though. Two mistakes that are prone to happen when human beings are involved. Not the whole team's fault.
 
The trims are not the problem, the mechanic just made a mistake with securing the wheelnut. We've seen the "frisbees" coming loose in previous races, spinning around the rim without loosening the wheelnut. Barcelona this year was one of the races if I'm not mistaken, I think it happened to Massa, but don't remember fully.

I agree that the penalty is way over the top considering that this type of thing has happened many times in the past without even any investigations let alone penalties.

For sure the reason for the penalty is the timing of it, seeing the tire bouncing on the track was a huge shock since we are all now hugely aware of the risks of hitting debris.

Renault still have a chance to appeal the decision, personally I think it will be reversed. If it stands then I don't think Renault will be staying around in F1 for too long...
 
My view is that it wasn't done on purpose at all, but the fact that they let it go was a very dangerous error. The onus is on the pit crew (i.e. the team) to ensure that the car is safe before they let it go, and they screwed up on that one big time. It's debatable if the punishment fits the crime though - this way, Piquet and Alonso pay heavily for something that neither had anything to do with. But the fact that Alonso retired in the race should have no bearing on any potential penalty whatsoever...

edit: The mechanic knew the wheel wasn't on properly as you can see him fumbling with it as the car is released, but that mechanic couldn't stop the car from being released... but what should the team have done once the car was back out and they knew the wheel was loose? Should they have ordered Alonso to pull off the track, or would they have just said "Crawl back to pits so we can fix it?". If they did the latter, that could be construed as deliberately dangerous...
 
They should have told him to stop on the track, or he should have done it himself. It was wrong, can't say I think the punishment is right.
 
They could have easily ordered Fernando to stop before the end of the pitlane at least or somewhere on the track, I think the sticking point is that they knowingly allowed the car to go around the track with a wheel that was just waiting to come off and fly into the path of another driver....(not to mention bits of carbon fibre flying about!).
Even if the mechanics didn't know it was loose (which is impossible seeing as they had trouble getting it on in the first place), they could have easily seen from the onboard footage that it was not a puncture, especially after the wheel cover came off. They had a long time to make a decision and they chose to let Alonso coast around the track to the pits - which was a rather dangerous and stupid decision.

I imagine the suspension will be ultimately lifted before Valencia but certainly the wheel covers will be banned now, it was already on the cards with FOTA - but they were unsure before, certainly won't be now.
 
mipuumal
The trims are not the problem, the mechanic just made a mistake with securing the wheelnut. We've seen the "frisbees" coming loose in previous races, spinning around the rim without loosening the wheelnut. Barcelona this year was one of the races if I'm not mistaken, I think it happened to Massa, but don't remember fully.

I agree that the penalty is way over the top considering that this type of thing has happened many times in the past without even any investigations let alone penalties.

For sure the reason for the penalty is the timing of it, seeing the tire bouncing on the track was a huge shock since we are all now hugely aware of the risks of hitting debris.

Renault still have a chance to appeal the decision, personally I think it will be reversed. If it stands then I don't think Renault will be staying around in F1 for too long...
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Not a hope, the last time an appeal actually resulted in a descision behing reversed by the FIA was over a decade ago (well over a decade ago in fact). The normal course of events if you appeal and lose is that the FIA increase the penalty.

Renault will almost certainly take it on the chin and miss the next race.


Regards

Scaff
 
The punishment is very harsh but I guess it's a sign that from now on, governing bodies of motor racing will be extremely strict on anything relating to debris of any sort. The team let out a dangerous vehicle, potentially deadly as recently proved, and no one told Alonso to park it. Again, the punishment is probably overboard and I expect that Renault will successfully challenge the decision in the coming weeks.
 
Scaff
Not a hope, the last time an appeal actually resulted in a descision behing reversed by the FIA was over a decade ago (well over a decade ago in fact).
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Malaysia 1999, Ferrari were DQ'd for "illegal" winglets. They appealed and got their positions back.

Not comparable to this incident, but I still think Renault have a solid chance of getting the decision reversed if you look at past incidents like this:

Hungary 2006, Alonso's right rear wheelnut wasn't fastened properly and the wheel started to come off in T3 causing him to crash and retire. No post-race actions taken.

Barcelona 2008, Heidfeld's front right wheelnut was seen rolling around the pitlane by the TV cameras and was grabbed by a Toyota mechanic before Heidfeld was fully released from the pits. Heidfeld crawled back to the pits without losing the wheel. No post-race actions taken.
 
mipuumal
Malaysia 1999, Ferrari were DQ'd for "illegal" winglets. They appealed and got their positions back.

Not comparable to this incident, but I still think Renault have a solid chance of getting the decision reversed if you look at past incidents like this:
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Exactly my point, the last appeal that have worked was a decade ago, go back before that and it was around six years.

Appeals against FIA ruling do not have a proven track record of success, in addition the last one that worked was for a technical infringment, not a safety related one. Have a go at finding out when the last one of those was appealed and the appeal worked.


mipuumal
Hungary 2006, Alonso's right rear wheelnut wasn't fastened properly and the wheel started to come off in T3 causing him to crash and retire. No post-race actions taken.

Barcelona 2008, Heidfeld's front right wheelnut was seen rolling around the pitlane by the TV cameras and was grabbed by a Toyota mechanic before Heidfeld was fully released from the pits. Heidfeld crawled back to the pits without losing the wheel. No post-race actions taken.
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And in neither case did the wheel actualy come off.

One week after a driver died from a stray wheel and a day after a driver was seriously injured from car derived debris its not exactly a strange move by the FIA, nor given these recent circumstance are Renult likely to appeal, nor would the FIA be likely to uphold an appeal.

You may not agree with the ruling (and you will note that I have not commented either way on that part of it), but from an image point of view Renault are unlikely to appeal and the FIA ever less likely to uphold an appeal.


Regards

Scaff
 
They're appealling.

Autosport
Renault appeals stewards' decision

By Jonathan Noble Sunday, July 26th 2009, 17:03 GMT

Renault has confirmed that it will appeal the FIA's decision to ban the team from the European Grand Prix for the events that led to a wheel coming off Fernando Alonso's car in Hungary.

The team lodged its paperwork and a deposit for the 6000 Euros fee for the appeal, with a hearing now likely take place in the summer break before the European GP on August 23.

The paperwork, lodged in conjunction with the French motorsport federation, was signed by Renault's team manager Steve Nielsen and was received by the FIA's stewards' chairman Alan Donnelly shortly before 7pm.
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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77358
 
I can say Renault will race in Valencia. Just try to imagine the results of taking Alonso away from a country of spectators that aren't interested whatsoever in any aspect of F1 or racing, but in the chauvinism of watching a countrymen beat some foreigners at something.

And then you can have some fun counting the spectators with your fingers.

Seriously, I can't think of a sport being minimally broadcasted over here (and by minimally I mean one or two minutes once a month) that doesn't have a spaniard in it. Any event without a spanish flag in it is directly ignored and despised. It's pathetic, I swear.
 
Presumably Alguesuari's presence wouldn't be enough? Or is it a case of "we don't care for anyone who isn't Alonso" rather than "we don't care for anyone who isn't Spanish"?
 
Well, so much for Alonso making an attempt to redeem himself at Valencia(?)
Provided Renault appeals and is successful...
 
What about Raikkonen? He looked a bit too agressive in turn 1 and 2.
 
First off, I know this is near impossible and unlikely to happen in the near future. I know Alonso to Ferrari is just a rumor, but if Renault's appeal fails, could he race for Ferrari in Massa's seat assuming Massa isn't yet fit to drive? Or is Alonso suspended too along with the team?
 
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darkfinal
the chauvinism of watching a countrymen beat some foreigners at something.
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Right in the (piii) head of the nail. Before Alonso started winning, in Spain only four cats knew something about F1. After that, fans started growning like (pii) mushrooms. You can change "Alonso/F1" with "Gasol/NBA", "Nadal/Tennis"...

darkfinal
Seriously, I can't think of a sport being minimally broadcasted over here (and by minimally I mean one or two minutes once a month) that doesn't have a spaniard in it. Any event without a spanish flag in it is directly ignored and despised. It's pathetic, I swear.
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Example: 24 Hours of LeMans. Peugeot wins. Marc Gené wins. How many TV channels said even one line about it on their news bulletins? 2, maybe 3. Oh, and this is how you swear: Stupid (piii) (piii) that don't know the magnitude of that.

Roo
Presumably Alguesuari's presence wouldn't be enough? Or is it a case of "we don't care for anyone who isn't Alonso" rather than "we don't care for anyone who isn't Spanish"?
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It is a case of "We only care if there's a Spanish winning or getting close to winning." I mean, yeah, Alguersuari looks promising, but he finished 15th. That's not good for the (pii) (pii) dumbasses that watch F1 for the reason my Catalan buddy has said. I bet that half of the Valencia Street Circuit grandstands are gonna be empty.


(Copyright for the "text bolded & colored" goes to Famine)
 
orimarc
It is a case of "We only care if there's a Spanish winning or getting close to winning." I mean, yeah, Alguersuari looks promising, but he finished 15th. That's not good for the (pii) (pii) dumbasses that watch F1 for the reason my Catalan buddy has said. I bet that half of the Valencia Street Circuit grandstands are gonna be empty.
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Hmm....so that explains the lack of interest here in the US...

Really, it happens in all countries...(though I'm Dominican).
 
🤬 the FIA! The FIA's excessive punishments are a big reason why I barely watch F1 races nowadays. FOTA seriously needs to leave and start their own F1 series.
 
I do think it was a bit excessive...then again, the most logical thing for Renault to do was to make him crawl back to the pits, especially in light of the recent events. But yeah, I think a hefty fine would've sufficed.
 
While I disagree with the level of the fine, I kind of see why the penalty had to happen... given the current climate.

Any news on Kimi? I'm expecting him to be docked places in the next race...
 
niky
While I disagree with the level of the fine, I kind of see why the penalty had to happen... given the current climate.

Any news on Kimi? I'm expecting him to be docked places in the next race...
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Kimi was let off and while on the subject of penalties, Red Bull received a verbal warning for the unsafe release of Mark during his first pit stop.
 

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