Return of the Grid Start?

[Snaeper]

I don't know if anyone else noticed this in the Visual Effects and Damage video, but I was thrilled only at 0:08. I was never a fan of the rolling starts, so to see a group of cars sitting orderly in waiting excited me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=746uWpjd85w


A few side topics of that same shot are the yellow wheels of the Lotus... not to mention a Camaro in the background featuring the optional graphics package that Chevrolet offers for the car. All very interesting. This interest grows even more when you consider that these two "stock" cars are sitting on the track with JR Rocha's highly modified SEMA winning G37.

TO CLARIFY:

When I say "return" I mean that they were largely absent from GT5P.

I'm not opposed to rolling starts, however in the context with most of the racing in GT5P it was frustrating to have to race in events where the lead car was given a massive advantage with only a few laps given to catch him. I understand rolling starts are the norm in most professional racing series and I'm happy to have them accurately represented. Speaking of which, rolling starts in most RL racing series involve all the cars accelerating at the same moment (instead of when they cross the starting line) not to mention they're usually double-wide.

Alas I digress, I prefer grid starts for races which involve fewer laps with slower cars, while rolling starts make more sense with faster cars and more laps. I am also in favor of the option to choose when it comes to online races, whether you'd like rolling or grid.

 

[JTSnooks]

Good! Now if only they'd bring back qualifying I'd be happy.

 

[Ardius]

"Return"? It has never gone? It was in Prologue and GT4 before it. Not offline, but online we had standing starts for several races at Suzuka and Fuji.

 

[Daverytimes]

"Return"? It has never gone? It was in Prologue and GT4 before it.

I never saw it in Prologue, please enlighten me if am wrong.

 

[Ardius]

It was online on Fuji and Suzuka. They interchanged whether it was rolling or standing several times. I preferred standing though it caused far bigger Turn 1 accidents than with rolling, which with the nature of random-matchmaking like in Prologue, isn't always fun.

 

[Dazzla]

Grid start is the way to go, especially when your going to be racing in high horsepower GT-Rs like I will

 

[Zenith]

Good spotting by the OP. I'd guess that the Camaro's graphics are just a paint scheme that can be bought with the car, not sure about the Espirit though...

Qualifying>Grid starts>Rolling starts

 

[gtone339]

It was online on Fuji and Suzuka. They interchanged whether it was rolling or standing several times. I preferred standing though it caused far bigger Turn 1 accidents than with rolling, which with the nature of random-matchmaking like in Prologue, isn't always fun.

None for offline races (GT5P).

 

[Leweegibo]

There has to be grid starts and there ought to be qually, This looks promising! i'd be very disapointed if it was still all rolling, I mean, hardly any racing is started with rolling starts, well in comparison to standing anyway!

 

[GTPorsche]

Hopefully it's all grid starts on road courses. The only time rolling starts happen is on the ovals, and the Grand-Am series.

 

[hardvibes]

Of course there's a grid start. Don't tell me you ever had a doubt...

 

[Strikey182]

Also on a video it said something along the lines of "Start type: Rolling start". I don't see the point in putting that there unless there is the option for grid starts soo its almost certain its in

 

[Super T]

Grid starts are definately my preferred choice, getting just right and launching towards turn one or getting it very wrong and sitting in a cloud of your own tyre smoke waiting to be collected by the cars charging off the line behind you is a big part of racing for me.

Some races are better with rolling starts, not sure I fancy the idea of lighting the rears up on Daytona's banked startline, obviously why they chose rolling starts for races like that in RL.

 

[X-Power]

I agree, grid starts are better. Rolling starts really annoyed me on GT5, on Eiger Nordwand the first car is already halfway round the course by the time I've started. Rolling starts made the races needlessly harder than they should have been. They were an unfair advantage to the A.I. on such a short course. Hopefully GT5 will use grid starts.

 

[mykem]

If anyone familiar with the Japanese Super GT series, it's always rolling start. Even Le Mans and Nurburgring, understandably so with their large grid. Even FIA GT racing and American Le Mans series use the same format: formation lap lead by pace/leading/safety car and a green flag and off from a rolling start. Correct me if I'm wrong but the only standing start I've seen in Motorsport is F1 races (possibly F2 etc.). And outside of that is the Super Battle in Best Motoring. But yes, in GT5 Prologue there is standing start for online races on at least two tracks, Suzuka and Fuji. What GT5 needs is a rolling start with proper formation lap avec Pace Car and two cars in row.

 

[dj4monie]

There has to be grid starts and there ought to be qually, This looks promising! i'd be very disapointed if it was still all rolling, I mean, hardly any racing is started with rolling starts, well in comparison to standing anyway!

You mean in the game or real life?

IRL - Rolling Start
NASCAR - Rolling Start
ALMS - Rolling Start
Grand Am - Rolling Start
International GT Open (European GT2 replacement) - Rolling Start
Most GT Racing World Wide (GT3 and GT4, regional and national series)
All SCCA Club Racing (I believe)

Standing Starts -

V8 Supercars
Most FIA spec Formula Racing including F1/GP2/GP3
Super League Formula
SCCA World Challenge?
World Series by Renault

Most race cars have some form of traction control, save for series where they have standing starts. But as I said most GT racing has rolling because all the cars have Traction Control and VLN allows for ABS.

 

[dj4monie]

I hope you can choose weather to qualify or not, that's always been an option in Pro Race Driver and a few other games.

 

[SuperShouden]

Standing starts, in real racing, can cause a LOT more problems than it's worth. It makes for a lot more crashes in the first turn and it can also 'cause issues on the start. A lot of race cars really aren't designed to take off from a dead stop, even exiting the pits, some cars tend to stall (which is why NASCARS need a push to get going.) and sometimes the guy in front will get caught sleeping or something and you can have massive pileups before the race even starts. So, that's why most racing series use the rolling start...especially if you have multiple classes and 70+ cars on the track.

 

[Smallhorses]

I hope you can choose weather to qualify or not, that's always been an option in Pro Race Driver and a few other games.

Why would you want to choose the weather that you qualify with?
It'd be pretty pointless to qualify in the rain and be slower than everyone else qualifying in the dry.

I'm guessing you mean whether you qualify or just start from the back of the grid?

Bloody confusing language this English malarkey!

 

[mykem]

I hope you can choose weather to qualify or not, that's always been an option in Pro Race Driver and a few other games.

You mean whether to qualify or not As many have posted before- there's already option to qualify in GT4. It's under the Free Practice button in some of the races (not beginner hall, for example).

 

[Pescara for GT5]

There has to be grid starts and there ought to be qually, This looks promising! i'd be very disapointed if it was still all rolling, I mean, hardly any racing is started with rolling starts, well in comparison to standing anyway!

Only series I can think of is Nascar, so unless it is Nascar, I hope all series start with Grid starts.

 

[SuperShouden]

Only series I can think of is Nascar, so unless it is Nascar, I hope all series start with Grid starts.

You should look at this, then...and watch more racing besides NASCAR

You mean in the game or real life?

IRL - Rolling Start
NASCAR - Rolling Start
ALMS - Rolling Start
Grand Am - Rolling Start
International GT Open (European GT2 replacement) - Rolling Start
Most GT Racing World Wide (GT3 and GT4, regional and national series)
All SCCA Club Racing (I believe)

Standing Starts -

V8 Supercars
Most FIA spec Formula Racing including F1/GP2/GP3
Super League Formula
SCCA World Challenge?
World Series by Renault

Most race cars have some form of traction control, save for series where they have standing starts. But as I said most GT racing has rolling because all the cars have Traction Control and VLN allows for ABS.

yeah, all the racing I watch uses Rolling Starts (save the occasional V8 Supercars and SCCA World Challenge race)

 

[Leweegibo]

You should look at this, then...and watch more racing besides NASCAR



yeah, all the racing I watch uses Rolling Starts (save the occasional V8 Supercars and SCCA World Challenge race)

Yes that's alot of rolling starts but in the broader spectrum standing is the norm, as in club racing etc... Evey race I have watched in real life in the last 2 years has been standing start, Formula ford, F3000, HQ Cup, fujitsu series, V8 supercars, F1, AusGT(I think) and so many more, I can't think of names. The only one that I think was rolling was the Touring Car Legends and I'm sure that was coz no one wanted to damage the old beauties!

Sure, most are support/club races but the majority of racing in gran turismo, well on the lower levels, is of that style!
I have nothing against rollin starts where needed! Although you ought To be in control alot earlier and/or with bunched A.I to avoid that problem of being half a lap down when you cross the line!

 

[ploopsy]

It depends on the type of race and I am sure it will be there.

Grid starts are great for farming cash from the crappy races when you are too drunk to race properly. Just strap some NOS on the car and you win!

 

[SuperShouden]

It really depends on the cars racing. Road cars are don't have problems with standing starts usually and so a lot of Showroom Stock and races like that can be run from a standing start. However, there are cars like the Prototypes and more purpose built racing cars that aren't really designed to stand on a line for 10-20 minutes while before the race starts. A lot of them would stall if they had a standing start. (Try a standing start with NASCARs and see what happens). And, some cars have a lot more torque and power than others, which could see a spin out straight away...and rolling starts keep the driver's occupied so they don't literally fall asleep while waiting for the race to start....There are advantages and disadvantages to both, though. Like, there was one FIA race at Fuji almost took the life of one of the drivers and this was at the VERY start of the race because the guy in the pace car was going WAY too fast for the wet track. And there's a bit more of a fight at the beginning with a grid start.

But, then, there are some tracks it just doesn't work well for. Like Sebring isn't a fun grid start track because, while the first turn is nice and wide, it leads onto a very narrow part of the track, and, even with rolling starts, it causes issues. Road America is another track it wouldn't really work on 'cause of the incredibly sharp 90 degree corners in the first couple turns.

But most tracks do support a grid start. And it can be fun to get a jump on the competition, but it can be a nightmare at times, too.

 

[JohnBM01]

I think a detail from the Day/Night transition videos mentioned certain kinds of starts. I actually think races with Rolling Starts can be tougher than those with Standing Starts. That's especially in races where all the cars are about even (to use GT4 speak, anywhere between 8 to 10 A-Spec). Like, take Infineon Raceway (either Stock Car or Sports Car Course) or Tokyo R246- Rolling Start and Standing Start respectively. All cars will get up to speed after crossing the line or near it, and it makes it harder to beat the faster cars in a Rolling Start. A Standing Start isn't much better, but at least everyone gets up to speed right away.

It may ultimately depend on the series being raced and used which determine Standing Starts or Rolling Starts. I think a return of Standing Starts is very likely.

 

[FatboyTim]

Le Mans starts please.

 

[Ardius]

None for offline races (GT5P).

They were still in the game, so they are not "returning".

I agree, grid starts are better. Rolling starts really annoyed me on GT5, on Eiger Nordwand the first car is already halfway round the course by the time I've started. Rolling starts made the races needlessly harder than they should have been. They were an unfair advantage to the A.I. on such a short course. Hopefully GT5 will use grid starts.

Eiger is too small for standing starts. London is only marginally better and you will probably never see standing starts at Daytona.

GT5 will have standing starts, the GT series has always featured them. Its just that they won't feature at all circuits due to various reasons from physical restrictions (Daytona, Eiger, etc) to real life race rules (Le Mans).

 

[frankwer]

They should make the user/host choose if it`s a standing or rolling start, and please let us have a warmup lap.

 

[Snaeper]

Of course there's a grid start. Don't tell me you ever had a doubt...

I regret to say that I did, I felt like every race in GT5 was a Licence test, mainly for the reason below

I agree, grid starts are better. Rolling starts really annoyed me on GT5, on Eiger Nordwand the first car is already halfway round the course by the time I've started. Rolling starts made the races needlessly harder than they should have been. They were an unfair advantage to the A.I. on such a short course. Hopefully GT5 will use grid starts.

It was as if each of the front-running AI were programmed to run the fastest laps around the track... if you couldn't run FASTER than the gold, you were bound for second.

While there's a lot of cases for Rolling Starts... you have to remember that those are professional racing cars conforming to a strict set of rules to keep them closely competitive... and running more than 3 laps around a track. The problem I had with Prologue was that you had 3 laps to catch up to a car that was *usually* the fastest thing allowable in the race.

And of course I'm not abolishing rolling starts, as stated they make perfect sense for NASCAR and other professional racing types. It's just for the street-cars on the low-lap races is where it bugs me. It almost doesn't feel like GT, I'm too used to the sitting and revving your motor while the camera pans around you.

Good spotting by the OP. I'd guess that the Camaro's graphics are just a paint scheme that can be bought with the car, not sure about the Espirit though...

Qualifying>Grid starts>Rolling starts

Thanks! After looking over the E3 2010 trailer, I noticed that almost everything was put in for a reason. This video was no different and I think they put in that Camaro with the graphics package to tease either livery... or just their attention and caring detail they have for the stock cars on the showroom floors. Either way I love the fact that the "hockey-stick" graphics made it on the car. Returning to my theory, most of the videos have featured similar types of cars racing each other. (Amuse 350Z vs. HKS Evo, Super GT, Supercars) So to have the G37 on the track with two seemingly "stock" cars is interesting. I'm sure they tried to disguise this by the folding headlights in the day-to-night transition.