- 40
Very nice. Wish I knew this before so I wouldn't be frustrated playing for an hour thinking my driving went out the door. Lol. So does the gt4 community consider this a cheat or no?
Review my Honda Integra and NSX setup please! :)
- Thread starter 0.o slow 1.6
- 41 comments
- 5,353 views
- 10,544
- Columbia, MD.
- Parnelli_Bones
Okay, so I'm FINALLY getting to this. 
For the Integra (O.o's Integra), I first drove a bunch of laps without the wing kit, then I went with the wings.
Tsukuba Best Lap (no wings): 1:03.759
Tsukuba Best Lap (wings): 1:02.938.
First, just want to mention up front that I often use all these "secondary" sort of parts for GT sim racing. I'm talking about hte 1-way diff, close tranny, sport clutch, etc. I feel that fully tuning a car to race the typical GT4 opponent is mad overkill. But, if the goal is to really tune a car to its best, you'd have to start using all the fully-modifyable parts. This Integra could certainly be improved in many ways.
Brakes:
There's no brake balancer, which is fine. If this car had been entered in the Tuner Challenge Ver. 5, i woulda docked points and stuff, but the bottom line is: most front-drive Honda products in GT4 have good brakes, so the braking ability of this Integra isn't something I'm gonna harp on for this car, which isn't in a contest. I could brake extremely late at times, and trail-brake inwards while doing so. 👍
There were also times I could easily drop some E-brake action if needed, especially in all 3 of Tsukuba's hairpins. But I frequently used the E-brake here and there in every single curve & hairpin here at Tsukuba, if I needed to. Sometimes you just NEED to use it, ya know? To tighten up the car's cornering. 💡
Traction:
2nd gear is horribly touchy with lots of wheelspin if more than 75% throttle is used anywhere from 4,000 to about 7,000 rpms. This could easily be improved with a full-custom tranny/taller 2nd gear, as well as a full-custom limited slip & careful Initial/Accel settings. 1.8 degrees of front camber and that semi-light flywheel are also allowing some torque to get away from pavement,, although the camber and flywheel are much of a lesser concern than the lack of full-custom parts. The camber & flywheel have some beneficial effects for grip & acceleration, so I wouldn't just toss them.
On the other hand, the camber feels GREAT during those longer curves...the car leans sideways, and those tires are catching fuller grip. In slower turns (basically any turn except the final righty) the front-end immediately locks in, assuming you've braked and/or aren't carrying too much speed. .
Often I would try using 3rd out of the tight corners of Tsukuba instead of 2nd. 3rd locks in with full-throttle--no sweat, and only very minimal wheelspin if you manage to find it. The prob with 3rd is obviously now the engine bogs way below its proper torque curve.
The funny thing about this car with its close-ratio tranny: at Tsukuba, I tried using 2nd for some turns, and 3rd for others. I would mix & match throughout the track. Didn't matter...my lap times remained pretty much the same. Interesting.
But I finally found this odd combination which helped me during some of the fastest laps. I would employ some (or all) of these steps at times, depending on what I needed to do at that moment.
1. Brake in.
2. Downshift all the way to 2nd...basically using 2nd as an engine brake. Or use 2nd to accelerate out.
3. Give a dab of E-brake if necessary.
3. If using 2nd as an engine-brake only, quicky upshift into 3rd at some point while the Integra is coasting mid-corner.
4. Introduce throttle in 2nd or 3rd.
When doing License Test B5 (the one with the Mini around Tsukuba) we learn it's better not to downshift all the way for those hairpins. This goes when driving the Integra here, as well. Actually....
Gearing:
At Tsukuba, I simply found gears 2 thru 4 were best. I could upshift into 5th during Tsukuba's 2 longest straights (before and after the final curve) but this was unnecessary.
Da Bumps:
Turns 1, 4, 5, 7, and 8 at Tsukuba have rumble strips which physically lift cars from the inside! The rest of the turns (all the milder ones) have rumblies which are flush with the actual track. You can pretty much drive over these guys with little drama in the Integra. At worst, these milder rumblies can make the car shake a bit, so that it loses jsut a little bit of traction, and gets a little off from your intended racing line.
The other rumblies (the ones which lift the car) sometimes present a problem for this suspension, which is extremely stiff up front, and lowered quite a bit. Sometimes they present a problem, sometimes not...all depending on the angle of attack. This Integra has several bad habits over these strips. It loses its front-end traction (meaning gas needs to be tamed back or understeer will result), it lifts up to the point that racing lines can be destroyed if you're not careful, and if you find yourself needing to brake while passing over a rumbly with an inside tire, the car can get "pulled" inwards.
Obviously, hte best medicine is to avoid those rumblies altogether, and nail a gold-license type of run. It's certainly possible in this car. But I'm not always that good of a driver. Usually, I'm tapping over a rumbly somewhere.
Balance & Manuverability:
During those longer curves (the final right sweeper, especially) I noticed how this car kept needing moments to get balanced into a groove. I'd enter the turn. The front-end might start to grab if I braked early or it might understeer if I braked too late. If it's grabbing, the obvious reaction would be to introduce throttle. The front-end EASILY starts to push, unfortunately (full-custom limited slip coulda helped here, if we had a mild/middleish Accel tune). So you let off the gas. The car takes a moment to grab in again....it doesn't immediatly grab, in other words....you're constantly needing to balance the car between pushing & grabbing.
I'm looking at those shock absorbers, which haven't been tuned at all, and don't allow faster front-end movents (diving and rolling). The stiff front coils also limit the our ability to immediately lock-in to a quicker groove. On the other hand, these stiffer coils also keep the Integra's front from leaning too much, but they coulda been weakened just a tad.
Wings/ No wings:
At Tsukuba, the main area (really the ONLY area) where those wings made a difference was in the final turn, which is that long right hand curve. I could carry lots more speed with wings in place, and knocked an entire half-a-second 'cause of this. The Integra also locked into a groove alot easier in this area, with less moments of "balancing" needed, although it still would get a little lost sometimes.
I wanna continue further with El Cappy and the NSX, but I'm being interrupted for the evening.
Anyways, that should give you some idea of a review, ey? 
For the Integra (O.o's Integra), I first drove a bunch of laps without the wing kit, then I went with the wings.
Tsukuba Best Lap (no wings): 1:03.759
Tsukuba Best Lap (wings): 1:02.938.
First, just want to mention up front that I often use all these "secondary" sort of parts for GT sim racing. I'm talking about hte 1-way diff, close tranny, sport clutch, etc. I feel that fully tuning a car to race the typical GT4 opponent is mad overkill. But, if the goal is to really tune a car to its best, you'd have to start using all the fully-modifyable parts. This Integra could certainly be improved in many ways.
Brakes:
There's no brake balancer, which is fine. If this car had been entered in the Tuner Challenge Ver. 5, i woulda docked points and stuff, but the bottom line is: most front-drive Honda products in GT4 have good brakes, so the braking ability of this Integra isn't something I'm gonna harp on for this car, which isn't in a contest. I could brake extremely late at times, and trail-brake inwards while doing so. 👍
There were also times I could easily drop some E-brake action if needed, especially in all 3 of Tsukuba's hairpins. But I frequently used the E-brake here and there in every single curve & hairpin here at Tsukuba, if I needed to. Sometimes you just NEED to use it, ya know? To tighten up the car's cornering. 💡
Traction:
2nd gear is horribly touchy with lots of wheelspin if more than 75% throttle is used anywhere from 4,000 to about 7,000 rpms. This could easily be improved with a full-custom tranny/taller 2nd gear, as well as a full-custom limited slip & careful Initial/Accel settings. 1.8 degrees of front camber and that semi-light flywheel are also allowing some torque to get away from pavement,, although the camber and flywheel are much of a lesser concern than the lack of full-custom parts. The camber & flywheel have some beneficial effects for grip & acceleration, so I wouldn't just toss them.
On the other hand, the camber feels GREAT during those longer curves...the car leans sideways, and those tires are catching fuller grip. In slower turns (basically any turn except the final righty) the front-end immediately locks in, assuming you've braked and/or aren't carrying too much speed. .
Often I would try using 3rd out of the tight corners of Tsukuba instead of 2nd. 3rd locks in with full-throttle--no sweat, and only very minimal wheelspin if you manage to find it. The prob with 3rd is obviously now the engine bogs way below its proper torque curve.
The funny thing about this car with its close-ratio tranny: at Tsukuba, I tried using 2nd for some turns, and 3rd for others. I would mix & match throughout the track. Didn't matter...my lap times remained pretty much the same. Interesting.
But I finally found this odd combination which helped me during some of the fastest laps. I would employ some (or all) of these steps at times, depending on what I needed to do at that moment.
1. Brake in.
2. Downshift all the way to 2nd...basically using 2nd as an engine brake. Or use 2nd to accelerate out.
3. Give a dab of E-brake if necessary.
3. If using 2nd as an engine-brake only, quicky upshift into 3rd at some point while the Integra is coasting mid-corner.
4. Introduce throttle in 2nd or 3rd.
When doing License Test B5 (the one with the Mini around Tsukuba) we learn it's better not to downshift all the way for those hairpins. This goes when driving the Integra here, as well. Actually....
Gearing:
At Tsukuba, I simply found gears 2 thru 4 were best. I could upshift into 5th during Tsukuba's 2 longest straights (before and after the final curve) but this was unnecessary.
Da Bumps:
Turns 1, 4, 5, 7, and 8 at Tsukuba have rumble strips which physically lift cars from the inside! The rest of the turns (all the milder ones) have rumblies which are flush with the actual track. You can pretty much drive over these guys with little drama in the Integra. At worst, these milder rumblies can make the car shake a bit, so that it loses jsut a little bit of traction, and gets a little off from your intended racing line.
The other rumblies (the ones which lift the car) sometimes present a problem for this suspension, which is extremely stiff up front, and lowered quite a bit. Sometimes they present a problem, sometimes not...all depending on the angle of attack. This Integra has several bad habits over these strips. It loses its front-end traction (meaning gas needs to be tamed back or understeer will result), it lifts up to the point that racing lines can be destroyed if you're not careful, and if you find yourself needing to brake while passing over a rumbly with an inside tire, the car can get "pulled" inwards.
Obviously, hte best medicine is to avoid those rumblies altogether, and nail a gold-license type of run. It's certainly possible in this car. But I'm not always that good of a driver. Usually, I'm tapping over a rumbly somewhere.
Balance & Manuverability:
During those longer curves (the final right sweeper, especially) I noticed how this car kept needing moments to get balanced into a groove. I'd enter the turn. The front-end might start to grab if I braked early or it might understeer if I braked too late. If it's grabbing, the obvious reaction would be to introduce throttle. The front-end EASILY starts to push, unfortunately (full-custom limited slip coulda helped here, if we had a mild/middleish Accel tune). So you let off the gas. The car takes a moment to grab in again....it doesn't immediatly grab, in other words....you're constantly needing to balance the car between pushing & grabbing.
I'm looking at those shock absorbers, which haven't been tuned at all, and don't allow faster front-end movents (diving and rolling). The stiff front coils also limit the our ability to immediately lock-in to a quicker groove. On the other hand, these stiffer coils also keep the Integra's front from leaning too much, but they coulda been weakened just a tad.
Wings/ No wings:
At Tsukuba, the main area (really the ONLY area) where those wings made a difference was in the final turn, which is that long right hand curve. I could carry lots more speed with wings in place, and knocked an entire half-a-second 'cause of this. The Integra also locked into a groove alot easier in this area, with less moments of "balancing" needed, although it still would get a little lost sometimes.
I wanna continue further with El Cappy and the NSX, but I'm being interrupted for the evening.
Anyways, that should give you some idea of a review, ey?
Last edited:
- 10,544
- Columbia, MD.
- Parnelli_Bones
Now I'll do the '99 Honda Integra at El Capitan.
Without wings: 1:59.788
With Wings: 1:56.090
I'll be honest and admit I didn't spend as much time here trying to nail an absolute best lap. I was after a near-flawless one, instead.
Brakes:
Again, the braking ability is superb. Can't really complain about it here in Yosemite. And again, I'd use dabs (or sometimes smears) of E-brake action as needed.
HEre at El Cappy, it's not so necessary to always need a solidly tight racing line like at Tsukuba. The track is also wider overall, which means I could play with braking zones quite a bit. One can even brake way too late, letting the car slide in a tad before regathering and re-introducing some gas. 👍
Traction & Bumps:
But I CAN complain about this!
The same complaints I had at Tsukuba are still valid, the only difference is there's maybe just one or two areas where we're going slow enough to lose traction in 2nd gear. One can just use 3rd the entire time, instead, in those tighter areas. But there are no super-tight hairpins at El Cappy, so 2nd is fully optional.
But I noticed when going over the multitude of bumps & hills....the car's front-end bounces. Since it's front-drive, it easily loses traction (and therefore, speed). El Cappy's rumble strips are also harsher at times than Tsukuba's and don't treat the car so kindly. I'm not a believer in the "one size fits all" sort of tuning philosophy. What worked at Tsukuba definately ain't working here.
I'd go with an overall softer tune (springs and dampers), and with lots more ground clearance...somewhere above 125 mm. This would not hurt the car's abililty to go fast at all; matter of fact, I'd be able to carry more speed over bumps. As it is, I kept needing to minus the throttle fully at various moments, lest the car's front tires get all squeamish.
Gearing:
Gears 3 thru 5 (with an option for 2nd in a couple tight areas) are useful. The close-ratio tranny works fine here. No real complaints, other than the fact that (again) 2nd can't be planted fully lest wheelspin show up. Assuming someone wants to use 2nd here at some point.
Wings/Manuverability:
I think O.o slow 1.6 said somethign about being able to get better lap times at both tracks without wings. (EDIT--he actually said the car "grips better" without a wing) I'm finding the opposite is true, as I was able to EASILY cream my non-winged lap time by 2.900 seconds right off the bat. Lots more speed can be carried, since most of El cappy's turns are high-speed ones. 💡
The same issue I had in the final curve at Tsukuba (the car starts feeling lost/can't lock into a groove so well immediately, and pushes too easily at higher speeds) is also true here at El Cappy. And wings solve this to some degree, although not fully.
Without wings: 1:59.788
With Wings: 1:56.090
I'll be honest and admit I didn't spend as much time here trying to nail an absolute best lap. I was after a near-flawless one, instead.
Brakes:
Again, the braking ability is superb. Can't really complain about it here in Yosemite. And again, I'd use dabs (or sometimes smears) of E-brake action as needed.
HEre at El Cappy, it's not so necessary to always need a solidly tight racing line like at Tsukuba. The track is also wider overall, which means I could play with braking zones quite a bit. One can even brake way too late, letting the car slide in a tad before regathering and re-introducing some gas. 👍
Traction & Bumps:
But I CAN complain about this!
The same complaints I had at Tsukuba are still valid, the only difference is there's maybe just one or two areas where we're going slow enough to lose traction in 2nd gear. One can just use 3rd the entire time, instead, in those tighter areas. But there are no super-tight hairpins at El Cappy, so 2nd is fully optional. But I noticed when going over the multitude of bumps & hills....the car's front-end bounces. Since it's front-drive, it easily loses traction (and therefore, speed). El Cappy's rumble strips are also harsher at times than Tsukuba's and don't treat the car so kindly. I'm not a believer in the "one size fits all" sort of tuning philosophy. What worked at Tsukuba definately ain't working here.
I'd go with an overall softer tune (springs and dampers), and with lots more ground clearance...somewhere above 125 mm. This would not hurt the car's abililty to go fast at all; matter of fact, I'd be able to carry more speed over bumps. As it is, I kept needing to minus the throttle fully at various moments, lest the car's front tires get all squeamish.
Gearing:
Gears 3 thru 5 (with an option for 2nd in a couple tight areas) are useful. The close-ratio tranny works fine here. No real complaints, other than the fact that (again) 2nd can't be planted fully lest wheelspin show up. Assuming someone wants to use 2nd here at some point.
Wings/Manuverability:
I think O.o slow 1.6 said somethign about being able to get better lap times at both tracks without wings. (EDIT--he actually said the car "grips better" without a wing) I'm finding the opposite is true, as I was able to EASILY cream my non-winged lap time by 2.900 seconds right off the bat. Lots more speed can be carried, since most of El cappy's turns are high-speed ones. 💡
The same issue I had in the final curve at Tsukuba (the car starts feeling lost/can't lock into a groove so well immediately, and pushes too easily at higher speeds) is also true here at El Cappy. And wings solve this to some degree, although not fully.
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
Rather, Parnelli, what he noticed was after having installed and set the wings (which was an improvement over no wing), removing the wing again gave more grip than either of the previous setups.
- 40
Thanks for the review. Yea, I know the car had more potential if it has fc lsd and gearing. Since this is just a sport tune I dont want the ITR to have 6 gears. I might change up the suspension to the "racing" ones for the bound and rebound adjust-ability. I have a feeling you will not like the nsx at all. Lol. Looking forward for the review though. Thanks. Oh yea, I want you to set the wing to 30/30 and then remove it. I think youll find the car more enjoyable this way. You should be able to hit low 1:02 or high 1:01 with this and 1:53 at el capitan. I am going to make a race integra with your review in mind. Maybe you can take it out for a test run and review it to? lol Only if you have time.
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- 10,544
- Columbia, MD.
- Parnelli_Bones
Oh I'm not saying I'll not like it. I liked drivin your car just fine, but I'm impartial enough to see where it could be improved. I'll get to the NSX pretty soon, too. 👍
Do my DC2R PB, do my car!
Any chance i could get scores out of 10 too?!
Oh yea, I'll look at yours, too. What do you mean by "scores out of 10', tho?
- 40
Oh, were you able to drive my integra with the wing setting I gave you?
- 10,544
- Columbia, MD.
- Parnelli_Bones
30/30? Yea. I even posted my lap times with and without wings.
EDIT: Oh, I get what you're saying. Drive without wings, drive with 'em, and then take them off again. I haven't tried that last step.
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- 40
Yea, just make sure you take off the wing with the setting 30/30 in place. It should be able to bring you times down but I think your still going to give me the same review about the traction area.
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