Revised Group 3 and 4 cars?

[05XR8]

With the new DTM regulations using GT3 cars, wonder if PD will put even more of an emphasis on GR.3.

Might seriously need to revise it based on old GT1/GT2/GTE not fitting the GT3 class. Most manufacturers that also run GTE, have GT3 customer cars(with Corvette being the exception - I'm not sure if the Calaway C7 is racing).

 

[meekrab]

With the new DTM regulations using GT3 cars, wonder if PD will put even more of an emphasis on GR.3.

Might seriously need to revise it based on old GT1/GT2/GTE not fitting the GT3 class. Most manufacturers that also run GTE, have GT3 customer cars(with Corvette being the exception - I'm not sure if the Calaway C7 is racing).

I don't believe the Callaway C7 lasted more than a year or two. Chevy are going to be forced to build a GT3 C8 anyway because GTLM is dead next year in favor of GT3 Pro, but they unfortunately likely won't build customer cars; for whatever reason they don't seem to want to support customer teams. Maybe because most GT3 racing happens in Europe and the Corvette isn't a big seller over there anyway?

 

[Sgueji]

I would like to explain to PD that GT3 and GTE are not the same.

 

[MroczMR]

I would like to explain to PD that GT3 and GTE are not the same.

I don't like it either, but it is common in racing games to mash GT3 with GTE, even first Project Cars did this and Assetto Corsa would mash GT3 and GTE cars together in quick race.

But what is more annoying in my opinion is Group 1 with Group C, LMP1 and concept cars mashed together.

 

[Sgueji]

But what is more annoying in my opinion is Group 1 with Group C, LMP1 and concept cars mashed together.

You took my point, seeing the Vision GT (Gr.1) alongside LMP1 and Group C is terrifying, as well as not at all immersive...

 

[Farnell42]

Well, kind of unrelated but I wonder why PD threw out the Base Model designs in GT6 for GT Sport. For online Sport Mode races, I thought Base Models would work out better, as we feel like we're in a 'controlled setting' of 10 brand-new cars, rather than 10 clones of a 24-hour Le Mans winner... If anything, PD should have expanded the Base Model concept for all race cars used in Sport Mode(Gr. 1, Gr. 2, Gr. 3, Gr. 4, Gr. B), rather than deleting them... Sure, most Gr. 4 and some Gr. 3 cars are Base Models, but it should have been applied to the rest of the Gr. 3 range as well as Gr. 2 and Gr. 1, with only those cars being eligible for Sport Mode.
Plus, wonder if regular(real) race cars can now be priced according to their historic values, rather than having a fixed price based on their class like they did in GTS. The Base Model cars would have a fixed price, but real race cars with historic significance would be more expensive than their Base Model counterparts. For example, a Mercedes-AMG GT3 "Base Model" would cost $450000, like other Group 3 cars, while a Mercedes-AMG GT3 AMG Team HTP Motorsports '16 would instead cost $550000, and the latter is no longer eligible to be raced in Sport Mode. It is eligible for anything Group 3 other than Sport Mode though (such as in Career or Custom Lobbies).

 

[05XR8]

If PD took the time to make multiple liveries for each car, I'm all for it. Look at the SF19 cars in GT League. All that work and those aren't available to choose in Brand Central. Yet, they took the time to make all the FT1500 liveries.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Well, kind of unrelated but I wonder why PD threw out the Base Model designs in GT6 for GT Sport. For online Sport Mode races, I thought Base Models would work out better, as we feel like we're in a 'controlled setting' of 10 brand-new cars, rather than 10 clones of a 24-hour Le Mans winner... If anything, PD should have expanded the Base Model concept for all race cars used in Sport Mode(Gr. 1, Gr. 2, Gr. 3, Gr. 4, Gr. B), rather than deleting them... Sure, most Gr. 4 and some Gr. 3 cars are Base Models, but it should have been applied to the rest of the Gr. 3 range as well as Gr. 2 and Gr. 1, with only those cars being eligible for Sport Mode.
Plus, wonder if regular(real) race cars can now be priced according to their historic values, rather than having a fixed price based on their class like they did in GTS. The Base Model cars would have a fixed price, but real race cars with historic significance would be more expensive than their Base Model counterparts. For example, a Mercedes-AMG GT3 "Base Model" would cost $450000, like other Group 3 cars, while a Mercedes-AMG GT3 AMG Team HTP Motorsports '16 would instead cost $550000, and the latter is no longer eligible to be raced in Sport Mode. It is eligible for anything Group 3 other than Sport Mode though (such as in Career or Custom Lobbies).

The base models are just white colored with a number plate though. If someone is too lazy to search a livery for the existing car, likely they will also be too lazy to apply a livery to a base model. Instead of 10 clones of a Le Mans winner, we'll just get 10 clones of a white car.

I think it's fine as it is. We don't need to give PD more excuses to add dupes in the car list.

 

[RACECAR]

So, you guys might remember my post on what I feel should be changed or altered for GR.3 and GR.4 when it comes to those classes:

While I am gonna wait until actual new trailers arrive and not expect anything different from PD, there is an overwhelmingly strong case for GR.3 And GR.4 to be redone so here's my take regarding the Manufacturers present:

Alfa Romeo: Either replace the 4C with the Giulia (If its even possible to make a GR.3 version of the Giulia, but then again we had the RCZ and Beetle..) or just don't have the Manufacturer anymore. As nice as the 4C is to look at, its old.

Aston Martin: Well what else needs to be said really? The New GT3 and GT4 Vantage do exist so replace both cars.

Audi: Obviously, one of several cars where its painfully obvious the older car is well overdue to be replaced by the EVO. Likewise, it's time for TT Cup to go (Perhaps not entirely away, but just out of GR.4) and time for the R8 GT4 LMS to replace it.

BMW: While technically the only car not entirely out of date and even still competitive, the BMW M6 GT3 is pretty much on it's way out in real life as the M4 GT3 will soon replace it (Depending on how the financial situation of the pandemic goes) so that naturally means the M4 GT3 should be the natural replacement for GR.3. Think it's a broken record at this point, but the BMW M4 GT4 should naturally replace the M4 GR.4. It's basically the same thing with only the rear wing and hood being the big difference.

Chevrolet: Kind of a tricky one this is for GR.3. On one hand, the Corvette GT3-R would be an actual GT3 Corvette racing against other actual GT3 cars (I believe it is technically a globally homologated GT3, just doesn't race anywhere else but Europe usually) and we don't get more then one GTE car in a class that mimics GT3 (Unless you're roleplaying the Nurburgring 24 or the 24H series, then pretend its just SP9 and SPX). On the other hand, the C8 is the biggest talking point right now and between GM wanting to always showcase the latest thing and the People wanting an actual Corvette Racing car and not another fictional, we would likely have to settle for another GTE car mixed with GT3s. Either way, The C7 GR.3 (like most of the GR.3 class) is beyond old news really. As for GR.4, simple: Camaro GT4.R replaces C7 GR.4 doesn't get any simpler then that and I don't really feel like it'll be missed.

Citroen: No point in having them anymore as the GT by Citroen is outdated as is the GR.4 car and the company literally makes nothing remotely fit for either category so removing them would be better. Even PSA don't do much with them in racing anymore at the moment so PD should take the hint.

Dodge: Even as an old Viper Fanboy, I think the brand is better off gone. Realistically, only the most hardcore fans use it or the GR.4 anymore and being realistic, What is there to even replace it?

Ferrari: 488 GT3 Evo for GR.3, period. Likewise, a 488 replacement for GR.4. Nothing else to be said really.

Ford: This is actually an interesting situation. What direction should be taken here, A facelifted Ford Mustang GR.3 car with a matching GR.4 car (Yes I know there is a Mustang GT4 out there, but its not based on the facelift), or have the Ford GT GTE? It wouldn't be the first time a Manufacturer has had multiple entries (Look at BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Volkswagen and Peugeot) and people would finally have the GTE like they have been wanting, even though its not racing anymore (Because Ford being Ford).

Honda: Replace this brand with Acura and give us the actual NSX GT3 Evo for GR.3. Even when this car races oversees, its literally just a badge change of the same car made by HPD in the US. GR.4 can either have that car rebadged as an Acura or have the TLX as a GR.4 replacement (maybe even based on the TLX type S Pikes Peak car).

Hyundai: Another brand that needs to be gotten rid of from Manufacturers series. The game came out literally months after production of the Genesis ended so its absolutely dated and the brand has nothing remotely close to replacing is. Only other option I could see is replacing it with the Genesis brand (and use the G70 as I feel that is much closer in form to the old Genesis Coupe).

Jaguar: Not much to it other then update both cars to the new 2021 Facelift. Might be a good opportunity to do some interesting tweaks to the aero as well.

Lamborghini: Just like with Audi and Ferrari, bring the EVO for GR.3. GR.4 car can just be replaced with the Facelift version with a proper drivetrain swap.

Lexus: Obviously the GT3 car is still competing so nothing other then using the latest car I guess until Lexus actually has some sort of evo package in line for it. GR.4 however, they can easily base it off the 2021 RC F or even the RC F Track Edition.

Mazda: RX-Vision GT3 Concept for GR.3 and perhaps replace the much heavier Mazda Atenza with the Mazda 3 for GR.4. That would be my idea anyway.

Mclaren: 720S GT3 for GR.3 and 570S GT4 for GR.4, done and dusted.

Mercedes: EVO for GR.3 and AMG GT4 for GR.4. Again, done and dusted.

Mitsubishi: Remove it, competes with a long killed off car and it has no viable replacement.

Nissan: As much as this is a Brand I feel barely cares about racing anymore, its way past due for a replacement to Kaz's GT3 car from the 2013 Nurburgring 24 with the current GT3 car. GR.4 is fine I guess, just swap out the drive train.

Peugeot: Another brand that is better off not in the Manufacturers Series, no replacements remotely exist and the car being used is beyond dead.

Porsche: 911 GT3R and 718 Cayman GT4 for GR.3 and GR.4, simple.

Renault Sport: Get rid of. Its inclusion in the Manufacturer Series period is just too controversial with not only a car thats only "GT3" in performance (Nothing more then a detuned version of the original) and both GR.4 cars are beyond hilariously placed (FF car being too OP depending on BOP and do I really need to point out the issue with a MR Silhouette car in a class with actual production based cars?)

Subaru: WRX for the current model doesn't seem all that different so GR.3 car is alright for now. I would also possibly suggest the BRZ GT300 if possible as that is something that is actually BOP'd against GT3 cars. GR.4 though, BRZ. Yes its effectively another 86 in GR.4 but read what I have in mind for Toyota and this makes more sense.

Toyota: Perhaps a updated version of the Racing Concept is in order for GR.3. GR.4 though, just get the actual GT4 car. All that needs to be done.

Volkswagen: Kick to the Curb. GR.3 choices make no sense anymore and again, GR.4 doesn't need any FFs.

After taking a much more detailed look around when it comes to cars and seeing if anything changed car wise, I decided to revisit this and here's what my thoughts are now:

Alfa Romeo: Despite having a another look, I stand firmly by the idea that the 4C needs to be replaced and the only one I find to be suitable for both categories is the Giulia (maybe the GTA model since its a more hardcore version). While there is the Giulietta TCR, that is yet another car based on a car that has been discontinued and therefore obsolete (a problem that is already present with both categories) so not a great solution as it more or less runs into the exact same issue as the Hyundai Genesis has when GT Sport was released in 2017.

Aston Martin: Still the same as before: Replace both with the newer real world counterparts.

Audi: Same as before: Replace both with the R8 LMS EVO and the R8 LMS GT4

BMW: When it comes to GR.3, I've actually had abit of an interesting idea: Keep the M6 GT3 but add the M4 GT3 alongside. Why? Because it appears the M4 GT3 is still a along way from actually replacing the M6 so perhaps just have it alongside as a choice. My stance hasn't changed for GR.4 though: M4 GT4, done.

Chevrolet: While a C8.R would be a welcomed by many, I think a car that's in-line with GT3 cars would be more suitable for GR.3. Obviously, it'll be abit before we know whether that'll be GM's official GT3 car (which if the Cadillac ATS.V is anything to go by, they are more then capable) but that or a PD designed one is seeming to be a more reasonable option. GR.4 however is still the same: Camaro GT4.R

Citroen: I really did try to investigate and maybe find something to change my mind, but once again nothing currently made by them convinces me that they should remain a manufacterer for the Manufacterers Series.

Dodge: Unless PD can somehow work some sort of magic on the Challenger or Charger, still not seeing a suitable replacement to keep it as a participant in the Manufacterers Series. Maaaybe a Charger GR.4 could work, but still nothing suitable for GR.3

Ferrari: Same as before.

Ford: Realistically looking at it, a newer Mustang GR.3 is the best way to go. Ford GT is at this point out of date and outside the GTE, people don't really care for it. GR.4 of course, Mustang GT4.

Honda: As much as I don't even like this idea, it does manage to keep them as a participant and that's simply this: a Honda badged GT3 car for GR.3 and the Honda Civic Type R as a PD designed FR converted Gr.4 and NOT the TCR (Because lets keep GR.4 a "no FF" zone)

Hyundai: While I maintain Hyundai being no longer a participant in the Manufacterer series due purely to a long dead model with no replacement for GR.3, GR.4 I actually see something: a PD converted RWD version of the Hyundai Veloster TCR.

Jaguar: Same as before.

Lamborghini: Same as before

Lexus: Once again, the RC F GT3 is still racing so no need to replace just yet. GR.4 once again could use a facelifted version.

Mazda: Once again, RX-Vision GT3 Concept for GR.3. However, there are two interesting options PD could use for GR.4: a PD RWD conversion of the Mazda 3 TCR OR a PD designed Mazda Miata GR.4 (Basically, a modern version of the Miata GT4 from 2012).

Mclaren: Same as before

Mercedes: Same as before

Mitsubishi: Once again, nuke it.

Nissan: Again, it can't be impossible to replace the 2013 Schulze Motorsports car with the Current (or as current as it can be) Nissan GT-R GT3 Nismo. As much as I'm not a fan of the idea of adding yet another concept to the categories, a GR.4 spec Z proto seems to be the only realistic option. Not a fan but also not seeing a better option either.

Peugeot: Despite the promise of new models over multiple years for the Peugeot Sport brand, still not seeing a convincing reason to keep Peugeot in with a reasonable replacement for both categories.

Porsche: Same as before

Renault Sport: Mind has not changed on this. Just replace them with Alpine and have a A110 GR.3 to go with the A110 GR.4, clearly THAT is the sporting brand for the Renault Group.

Subaru: Unchanged on this

Toyota: Replace the Racing Concept with a GR.3 car much more based on the Production car that actually exists (Though maybe keep things like that enormous splitter and Rear Undertray). GR.4 though, Supra GT4.

Volkswagen: Yep, still convinced it needs to be kicked.

Again, not expecting PD to do much but again my thoughts on the current makes in both categories.

 

[Farnell42]

The base models are just white colored with a number plate though. If someone is too lazy to search a livery for the existing car, likely they will also be too lazy to apply a livery to a base model. Instead of 10 clones of a Le Mans winner, we'll just get 10 clones of a white car.

I think it's fine as it is. We don't need to give PD more excuses to add dupes in the car list.

Sure, but that's what Base Models are for. 10 clones of a car with the same team livery is jarring, especially in Group 2, where there are only 6 choices (as unlike in GT5 and GT6, there are no separate liveries here). Maybe it's just me, though.

 

[Farnell42]

So, you guys might remember my post on what I feel should be changed or altered for GR.3 and GR.4 when it comes to those classes:
Hyundai: While I maintain Hyundai being no longer a participant in the Manufacterer series due purely to a long dead model with no replacement for GR.3, GR.4 I actually see something: a PD converted RWD version of the Hyundai Veloster TCR.

Not sure if the RM19 prototype(https://www.motor1.com/reviews/385413/hyundai-rm19-prototype-first-drive/) fits in the picture. As long as production is confirmed(or something similar), it can be raced as early as in the concept phase... And it does have a running prototype. Even if this does not enter production, PD can take inspirations from it to create a RWD Veloster...

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Sure, but that's what Base Models are for. 10 clones of a car with the same team livery is jarring, especially in Group 2, where there are only 6 choices (as unlike in GT5 and GT6, there are no separate liveries here). Maybe it's just me, though.

Maybe, but if your goal is to have varied looking grids, then having 10 white cars is even more jarring than having 10 cars with the same liveries.

Really, if you're too lazy to apply a custom livery the game should just apply a randomised livery (like the AI in GT League) or use those Nations Cup style country liveries.

Mitsubishi: Once again, nuke it.

Subaru: Unchanged on this

Mitsu and Subaru Gr.3/4 cars are basically identical save for the shape. If you're going to keep one, I don't see why the other should be nuked. It's not like Subaru are that active in GT racing either (save for the BRZ GT300, though I don't know if that's still running).

I don't mind having fictional cars in the series either, as long as they're balanced. The important thing is FF/4WD in Gr.4 needs to go, because the BOP will never be right with them included.

 

[Keef]

With the new DTM regulations using GT3 cars, wonder if PD will put even more of an emphasis on GR.3.

Might seriously need to revise it based on old GT1/GT2/GTE not fitting the GT3 class. Most manufacturers that also run GTE, have GT3 customer cars(with Corvette being the exception - I'm not sure if the Calaway C7 is racing).

I would like to explain to PD that GT3 and GTE are not the same.

I don't like it either, but it is common in racing games to mash GT3 with GTE, even first Project Cars did this and Assetto Corsa would mash GT3 and GTE cars together in quick race.

But what is more annoying in my opinion is Group 1 with Group C, LMP1 and concept cars mashed together.

You took my point, seeing the Vision GT (Gr.1) alongside LMP1 and Group C is terrifying, as well as not at all immersive...

Gotta be honest, I...don't know what the difference is between any of these classes. GT3, GTD, GTE, GTLM...I blame it on the organizers for not simply coming up with a class that everybody fits into. So Gran Turismo has to do with with BOP, and that's fine with me. I mean hell, the C8 Corvette was the only car running its its "class" at Daytona this year, except there's no logical reason that it couldn't have run in the other classes. If all these differently named classes were the same we wouldn't have this problem. There's no reason for there to be so many that are just a tiny bit different. Apparently the effective differences between GT3 and GTE are literally 10 horsepower here, an inch of width there, a wider tire here, a smaller wing there. Utter nonsense. Eliminate all these differences, there's no need for them, and that's part of why manufacturers keep running away. Standardize around the globe and race them around the globe, simple as that.

So, you guys might remember my post on what I feel should be changed or altered for GR.3 and GR.4 when it comes to those classes:



After taking a much more detailed look around when it comes to cars and seeing if anything changed car wise, I decided to revisit this and here's what my thoughts are now:

Alfa Romeo: Despite having a another look, I stand firmly by the idea that the 4C needs to be replaced and the only one I find to be suitable for both categories is the Giulia (maybe the GTA model since its a more hardcore version). While there is the Giulietta TCR, that is yet another car based on a car that has been discontinued and therefore obsolete (a problem that is already present with both categories) so not a great solution as it more or less runs into the exact same issue as the Hyundai Genesis has when GT Sport was released in 2017.

Aston Martin: Still the same as before: Replace both with the newer real world counterparts.

Audi: Same as before: Replace both with the R8 LMS EVO and the R8 LMS GT4

BMW: When it comes to GR.3, I've actually had abit of an interesting idea: Keep the M6 GT3 but add the M4 GT3 alongside. Why? Because it appears the M4 GT3 is still a along way from actually replacing the M6 so perhaps just have it alongside as a choice. My stance hasn't changed for GR.4 though: M4 GT4, done.

Chevrolet: While a C8.R would be a welcomed by many, I think a car that's in-line with GT3 cars would be more suitable for GR.3. Obviously, it'll be abit before we know whether that'll be GM's official GT3 car (which if the Cadillac ATS.V is anything to go by, they are more then capable) but that or a PD designed one is seeming to be a more reasonable option. GR.4 however is still the same: Camaro GT4.R

Citroen: I really did try to investigate and maybe find something to change my mind, but once again nothing currently made by them convinces me that they should remain a manufacterer for the Manufacterers Series.

Dodge: Unless PD can somehow work some sort of magic on the Challenger or Charger, still not seeing a suitable replacement to keep it as a participant in the Manufacterers Series. Maaaybe a Charger GR.4 could work, but still nothing suitable for GR.3

Ferrari: Same as before.

Ford: Realistically looking at it, a newer Mustang GR.3 is the best way to go. Ford GT is at this point out of date and outside the GTE, people don't really care for it. GR.4 of course, Mustang GT4.

Honda: As much as I don't even like this idea, it does manage to keep them as a participant and that's simply this: a Honda badged GT3 car for GR.3 and the Honda Civic Type R as a PD designed FR converted Gr.4 and NOT the TCR (Because lets keep GR.4 a "no FF" zone)

Hyundai: While I maintain Hyundai being no longer a participant in the Manufacterer series due purely to a long dead model with no replacement for GR.3, GR.4 I actually see something: a PD converted RWD version of the Hyundai Veloster TCR.

Jaguar: Same as before.

Lamborghini: Same as before

Lexus: Once again, the RC F GT3 is still racing so no need to replace just yet. GR.4 once again could use a facelifted version.

Mazda: Once again, RX-Vision GT3 Concept for GR.3. However, there are two interesting options PD could use for GR.4: a PD RWD conversion of the Mazda 3 TCR OR a PD designed Mazda Miata GR.4 (Basically, a modern version of the Miata GT4 from 2012).

Mclaren: Same as before

Mercedes: Same as before

Mitsubishi: Once again, nuke it.

Nissan: Again, it can't be impossible to replace the 2013 Schulze Motorsports car with the Current (or as current as it can be) Nissan GT-R GT3 Nismo. As much as I'm not a fan of the idea of adding yet another concept to the categories, a GR.4 spec Z proto seems to be the only realistic option. Not a fan but also not seeing a better option either.

Peugeot: Despite the promise of new models over multiple years for the Peugeot Sport brand, still not seeing a convincing reason to keep Peugeot in with a reasonable replacement for both categories.

Porsche: Same as before

Renault Sport: Mind has not changed on this. Just replace them with Alpine and have a A110 GR.3 to go with the A110 GR.4, clearly THAT is the sporting brand for the Renault Group.

Subaru: Unchanged on this

Toyota: Replace the Racing Concept with a GR.3 car much more based on the Production car that actually exists (Though maybe keep things like that enormous splitter and Rear Undertray). GR.4 though, Supra GT4.

Volkswagen: Yep, still convinced it needs to be kicked.

Again, not expecting PD to do much but again my thoughts on the current makes in both categories.

I disagree with almost everything you've got here. I see no reason to remove cars that already exist and I see no reason for PD to not invent cars that don't exist yet. They've done a good job with that and it helps satisfy the fanbase. If you want to race a Mazda 6 GT3 car, race a damn Mazda 6 GT3 car. Concept cars I'm personally not a fan of but why limit them for other people?

Alfa Romeo: Add the Giulia.

Aston Martin: Don't replace anything, just add what's relevant.

Audi: Same as before - you've already got assets so don't delete them, just add others.

BMW: A prime example of not deleting assets lmao.

Chevrolet: Who cares what the difference between GT3 and GTE is? Like I mentioned above, as a big racing fan I still don't the difference and don't understand why they aren't simply one class. I don't even know if GT3 raced at Daytona, but they should, and the C8 should be racing with them.

Citroen: I agree they're lame as hell, but they have race cars that exist. It would be easy to reimagine their WRC cars as GT4 and GT3 cars, and they would be more relevant than an imaginary concept.

Dodge: Excuse me? If you get rid of the Viper you're going to piss off a lot of people. The Viper is as relevant to racing as macaroni and cheese is to life. In fact, you know what, bring back the old GT2 cars from all these manufacturers so if we're feeling nostalgic we can. BOP will do the rest.

Ferrari: Whatever, I don't even know what cars they make anymore.

Ford: I have a funny feeling you forgot the new GT race car exists. Why this car hasn't made the game yet I have no idea because it would immediately have hundreds of thousands of fans. Every single American has been waiting years for this car to enter to game.

Honda: Now you're reaching...but whatever, let's do it. Just don't delete the NSX assets since it's actually relevant to both racing classes. And while you're at it, bring back the Spoon S2000 and stick it in GT4. That'll be great fun.

Hyundai: I have no objections. Hyundai is slept on.

Jaguar: Whatever

Lamborghini: Whatever

Lexus: Whatever

Mazda: I agree that ND especially needs to be in GT4, I can't believe it isn't. Unfortunately, besides GTO and Super GT, the RX-7 never really raced anywhere. Then again, I want GTO cars brought back to life and BOP'd to run with GT3.

McLaren: Whatever

Mercedes: Whatever

Mitsubishi: Nuke nothing. Long live the Evo!

Nissan: There was literally a GT4 370Z. Include it. The GT-R is not irrelevant to this class either so there's no reason to get rid of it.

Peugeot: Whatever

Porsche: Whatever

Renault: Stop replacing things, just add more things. Options are fun.

Subaru: Whatever

Toyota: What they have is good enough, but why on earth was the Supra GT4 a special thing? I didn't even own the game when they had that survey. No clue why it hasn't been added back yet.

Volkswagen: A Beetle concept GT3 car really is one of the most egregious things in the game. But the XL Sport is a realish car and a cool one at that. Modify it and include it. Modify anything besides a concept Beetle and include it.

 

[05XR8]

Maybe, but if your goal is to have varied looking grids, then having 10 white cars is even more jarring than having 10 cars with the same liveries.

Really, if you're too lazy to apply a custom livery the game should just apply a randomised livery (like the AI in GT League) or use those Nations Cup style country liveries.



Mitsu and Subaru Gr.3/4 cars are basically identical save for the shape. If you're going to keep one, I don't see why the other should be nuked. It's not like Subaru are that active in GT racing either (save for the BRZ GT300, though I don't know if that's still running).

I don't mind having fictional cars in the series either, as long as they're balanced. The important thing is FF/4WD in Gr.4 needs to go, because the BOP will never be right with them included.

Yes, the new BRZ GT300 was announced last year.

Gotta be honest, I...don't know what the difference is between any of these classes. GT3, GTD, GTE, GTLM...I blame it on the organizers for not simply coming up with a class that everybody fits into. So Gran Turismo has to do with with BOP, and that's fine with me. I mean hell, the C8 Corvette was the only car running its its "class" at Daytona this year, except there's no logical reason that it couldn't have run in the other classes. If all these differently named classes were the same we wouldn't have this problem. There's no reason for there to be so many that are just a tiny bit different. Apparently the effective differences between GT3 and GTE are literally 10 horsepower here, an inch of width there, a wider tire here, a smaller wing there. Utter nonsense. Eliminate all these differences, there's no need for them, and that's part of why manufacturers keep running away. Standardize around the globe and race them around the globe, simple as that.

The way Gr.3 are and the current scope of PD not being able to get all licenced cars or the speed at which they can update GT3 cars, I'd go for fictional Gr.3 cars, but current(2018-2021) models.

For Gr.4 FF to remain, they need to be TCR spec: 350BHP/1230-1250kg. That will solve the performance gap compared to FR/AWD Gr.4. AWD should switch to FF or RWD. However, I prefer PD just make all Gr.4 cars RWD to match their Gr.3/GT3 models.

 

[Keef]

Yes, the new BRZ GT300 was announced last year.



The way Gr.3 are and the current scope of PD not being able to get all licenced cars or the speed at which they can update GT3 cars, I'd go for fictional Gr.3 cars, but current(2018-2021) models.

For Gr.4 FF to remain, they need to be TCR spec: 350BHP/1230-1250kg. That will solve the performance gap compared to FR/AWD Gr.4. AWD should switch to FF or RWD. However, I prefer PD just make all Gr.4 cars RWD to match their Gr.3/GT3 models.

I don't think that's a good idea. I've got limited experience with those cars, meaning I've driven them a couple times and that was it, but the AWD cars have their place. For example, when you're racing GT4 on a tiny track like Tsukuba. The track selection should be broader to allow these various drivetrains to shine.

 

[05XR8]

I don't think that's a good idea. I've got limited experience with those cars, meaning I've driven them a couple times and that was it, but the AWD cars have their place. For example, when you're racing GT4 on a tiny track like Tsukuba. The track selection should be broader to allow these various drivetrains to shine.

I get the production car aspect, in which these cars are literally based upon. Gr.3 are all RWD and it works. Most balanced Group in the game. I'm just saying Gr.4 could be just as balanced, by having these cars RWD. The subtle nuances would remain: Gr.4 4C is lightweight and good for cornering, a Gr.4 TTV6(rwd)GT-R could be similar to the GT3 car with its high top speed, EVO & WRX mimic their Gr.3 models in handling over top speed(the way the Gr.4 Evo/WRX currently do, but with less tyre wear, as they'd be rwd).

 

[RACECAR]

I disagree with almost everything you've got here. I see no reason to remove cars that already exist and I see no reason for PD to not invent cars that don't exist yet. They've done a good job with that and it helps satisfy the fanbase. If you want to race a Mazda 6 GT3 car, race a damn Mazda 6 GT3 car. Concept cars I'm personally not a fan of but why limit them for other people?

I am just suggesting an up-to-date roster just to freshen things up here. Also when I say remove, I don't mean from the game (That's begging for the sun and the moon at this point knowing PD) but from the selection for manufacturers, I don't mean to come off that way but that's what I was saying.

Alfa Romeo: Add the Giulia.

I literally mention the Giulia as the only suitable choice and even suggest the GTA model since its the high-end performance model.

Aston Martin: Don't replace anything, just add what's relevant.

Again, I just suggest replacing the selections. Not at all suggesting deleting them from the game.

Audi: Same as before - you've already got assets so don't delete them, just add others.

Except in my previous post I replied to, I literally said to not get rid of the TT Cup Car but just get it out of GR.4 and replace it the R8 LMS GT4 (because no more FF). Again, didn't say delete it.

BMW: A prime example of not deleting assets lmao.

Oh I know its obviously not happening here As I said though, just add the M4 GT3 because is fairly obvious the M6 isn't going anywhere yet despite its competitors going the evo route (Except Lexus because..?). Still think the M4 GT4 should just replace the GR.4, its nearly the GT4 anyway just with a different hood and Rear Wing so just put the real thing in there already (Its basically the Dodge Viper SRT Tuned in GT5 Prologue all over again: Just a strange substitute for something its already is anyway)

Chevrolet: Who cares what the difference between GT3 and GTE is? Like I mentioned above, as a big racing fan I still don't the difference and don't understand why they aren't simply one class. I don't even know if GT3 raced at Daytona, but they should, and the C8 should be racing with them.

GT3 and GTE are different due to basically how open to development they are. GTE (The ACO ruleset) is essentially full factory cars with open development over the season whereas GT3 (The SRO Ruleset) is basically a much stricter ruleset that stops in season development. GT3 has been racing at Daytona since 2014 when IMSA added them under the "GTD" category (Just below "GTLM", which is basically GTE).

Citroen: I agree they're lame as hell, but they have race cars that exist. It would be easy to reimagine their WRC cars as GT4 and GT3 cars, and they would be more relevant than an imaginary concept.

You're more imaginative then I am because I honestly cannot imagine their WRC cars as GT3. GT4 maaaybe but even then I genuinely have a hard time imagining a hatchback fitting in there as well unless PD decide to pull the same trick with the TCR car that they did with the R33 JGTC car in GT5 and GT6 (and before that, the FTO LM Race car in GT3).

Dodge: Excuse me? If you get rid of the Viper you're going to piss off a lot of people. The Viper is as relevant to racing as macaroni and cheese is to life. In fact, you know what, bring back the old GT2 cars from all these manufacturers so if we're feeling nostalgic we can. BOP will do the rest.

Not saying the Viper itself isn't relevent (you're talking to an old Viper fanboy here so would be beyond hypocritical for me of all people to say that ), the car in question IS as like many of the other cars I suggest replacing: models aren't being produced anymore (as is the case with Hyundai and Ferrari and Peugeot and Mitsubishi) and its pretty antiqued in comparison to all the other real GT3 cars (Except the GT-R that is literally from 2013 and I suspect is only there because kaaaaaaaz). I get nostalgia but I don't live by it and as such don't feel like it should influence the decision here no matter how much 9 year old me wants to disagree.

Ford: I have a funny feeling you forgot the new GT race car exists. Why this car hasn't made the game yet I have no idea because it would immediately have hundreds of thousands of fans. Every single American has been waiting years for this car to enter to game.

I didn't and literally mentioned it in my previous post, I just simply disregarded it here because I'm simply suggesting sticking with not mixing GTE cars with GT3 due to the different rulesets mentioned before. They could still add it, just have a class for the GTE cars.

Honda: Now you're reaching...but whatever, let's do it. Just don't delete the NSX assets since it's actually relevant to both racing classes. And while you're at it, bring back the Spoon S2000 and stick it in GT4. That'll be great fun.

Lets be real: With all do respect, the ONLY reason this car even gets used by many is the exact same reason so many developers went to RUF during the days of the EA-Porsche deal in that it was as close as anyone was gonna get in having the real thing. The moment the NSX GR.3 is in the same game as the actual NSX GT3, it'll get left behind just like RUF because people prefer the real thing over what was effectively a substitute. So I'm simply suggesting basically having a badge job 9hence why I don't like the idea) because despite this, I know how a large amount of people will react and am simply suggesting that they might as well lean in that direction knowing the demand for that car. As for GR.4, Still think a Civic Type R would not be a unpopular choice. Also, I again am not suggesting deleting it from the game.

Jaguar: Whatever

Just sayin, this would look preeetty damn good in race trim (And its not like Jaguar themselves will do anything to make that happen for real). Update the assets and it makes it look new again.

Mazda: I agree that ND especially needs to be in GT4, I can't believe it isn't. Unfortunately, besides GTO and Super GT, the RX-7 never really raced anywhere. Then again, I want GTO cars brought back to life and BOP'd to run with GT3.

It seriously boggles my mind that PD didn't attempt doing anything like this with it:

With how much people love the Touring car, this should've been a no-brainer for GR.4.

Mitsubishi: Nuke nothing. Long live the Evo!

Relax, I didn't say nuke it from Orbit. Mitsubishi already did that.

Nissan: There was literally a GT4 370Z. Include it. The GT-R is not irrelevant to this class either so there's no reason to get rid of it.

Dude, I didn't say that. Hell, I didn't even mention replacing it at all in any way. Only GT-R I mentioned in anyway needing replacement as a choice was the 2013 GT-R GT3, which is beyond old by now and replaced with the most recent iteration:

Renault: Stop replacing things, just add more things. Options are fun.

I am just saying that clearly as a manufacterer overall, its clearly far too often on one extreme or the other. Maybe I was too harsh on lumping in the RS.0.1. seeing as its never been a meta car, but I maintain that both the GR.4 choices are again more often then not are too controversial as choices due to the FF drivetrain being too overpowering without wear but near useless with it and it again has to be said that the Megane Trophy is not even remotely a production based car. Not saying delete them from the game, just out of the class (have a one-make series out of the Megane Trophy as I similarly suggested with the TT Cup because you know, THATS what they actually were in real life).

Toyota: What they have is good enough, but why on earth was the Supra GT4 a special thing? I didn't even own the game when they had that survey. No clue why it hasn't been added back yet.

Its literally just the GT4 Body, Sans the hood, with the interior of the Road car. Why it wasn't the actual GT4 completely or why it was exclusive to that survey, I genuinely couldn't tell you. In just saying that, THIS is the one car I actually wouldn't miss in GT7 as I want the actual GT4 that I can actually use in GR.4 (instead of the 86 GR.4 we still have now that I guarantee will be more of a headache for me then the Lexus RC F GR.4 ever was when that tire wear comes into play). Only reason I use it now is because literally No dev has the GT4 so this is the closest I will ever get to it. Not even gonna bother trying mods because I know it'll once again like everything else be for sims I cannot run.

Volkswagen: A Beetle concept GT3 car really is one of the most egregious things in the game. But the XL Sport is a realish car and a cool one at that. Modify it and include it. Modify anything besides a concept Beetle and include it.

Somehow, I wasn't aware of that car

Just had a look and yes, replace the Beetle (and the nonsensical VGT) with THAT as a car for GR.3.

I feel like the real crime with the Beetle is somehow having GR.B versions of the Focus and WRX and EVO, but somehow not this:

Mitsu and Subaru Gr.3/4 cars are basically identical save for the shape. If you're going to keep one, I don't see why the other should be nuked. It's not like Subaru are that active in GT racing either (save for the BRZ GT300, though I don't know if that's still running).
.

Here's the thing: Subaru has that BRZ GT300 (Which IS still going with a new version racing this season) and the WRX has been doing the Nurburgring 24 Hours the past three years (with multiple class wins) . Both cars still have models being sold, hence why I made the suggestion I did (Though in mentioning it, I'm leaning more towards just straight up replacing the WRX GR.3 with the BRZ GT300 and the same with the GR.4 entry just on the strength of how good the BRZ looks and in theory would be the better of the twins as a GR.4 car).

Meanwhile, Evo is long killed off with no suitable replacements for it in either category AND as a far as I can tell, THIS is literally the only thing representing Mitsubishi in ANY sort of Road Racing:

 

[Keef]

So I guess we're in agreement that nothing should be deleted.

However, they already allow multiple car options for the manufacturer contracts so there's no logical reason to replace the options with updated versions. Players should be able to choose the old Jag or the new Jag depending on what they think looks best and BOP does the rest. Same for driving the GT2 Viper or the modern GTWhatever Viper. Or the GTWhatever Ford GT - that would give Ford three options in GR3 to choose from. That's fine.

Speaking of GTWhatever, you're still stuck on the differences between GT3 and GTE, D, and LM. I think the broadest point of my last couple posts is...who cares? The differences between these classes are nothing but minor annoyances, literally matters of an inch here and a horsepower there. Irrelevant for gaming purposes and shouldn't exist in real life anyway. Fortunately for PD, they don't have to negotiate their classes with anybody. Their BOP system has the power to make it right - eliminate the annoyingly minor differences between all these "GT3" classes and run them together. Problem solved. I don't care about the differences between GT3 and GTE and I have a feeling the vast majority of casual racing fans who play this game don't either. PD produces this game to make money, not to satisfy hardcore racing nerds who study rulebooks in their free time.

 

[05XR8]

So I guess we're in agreement that nothing should be deleted.

However, they already allow multiple car options for the manufacturer contracts so there's no logical reason to replace the options with updated versions. Players should be able to choose the old Jag or the new Jag depending on what they think looks best and BOP does the rest. Same for driving the GT2 Viper or the modern GTWhatever Viper. Or the GTWhatever Ford GT - that would give Ford three options in GR3 to choose from. That's fine.

Speaking of GTWhatever, you're still stuck on the differences between GT3 and GTE, D, and LM. I think the broadest point of my last couple posts is...who cares? The differences between these classes are nothing but minor annoyances, literally matters of an inch here and a horsepower there. Irrelevant for gaming purposes and shouldn't exist in real life anyway. Fortunately for PD, they don't have to negotiate their classes with anybody. Their BOP system has the power to make it right - eliminate the annoyingly minor differences between all these "GT3" classes and run them together. Problem solved. I don't care about the differences between GT3 and GTE and I have a feeling the vast majority of casual racing fans who play this game don't either. PD produces this game to make money, not to satisfy hardcore racing nerds who study rulebooks in their free time.

The only reason that exists is because that is what PD have done. In GT5, We had an "official" GT3 class. Dream Cars, were the class that had all the fantasy cars. PD could revert to that.

I'd prefer an official class to make the game feel more like real life. However, the way PD painted GTS into a corner, everything is jumbled. The same way GR.1, GR.2 & GR.4 become a mess when it's a Daily and Nations event.

Now, in me saying GR.3 being the most balanced, it still has its quirks. I get that the average player may not care for the differences between an old Z4 GT3 versus the current M6 GT3. Again, that's how PD forces the player to play the game, the way PD want.

Remember, while GTS was being developed, their weren't any cars older than 2009(the Lotus Evora being that oldest car). All race cars were only a couple years old, from the original game debut for 2016. Game got delayed to 2017.

We know GR.3 is the bread and butter or steak & eggs or fish & grits in GTS. I think it wasn't necessary to add the older cars from GT1(F1, DBR9), GT2(M3), GTE(RSR, Supra).
It's similar to how some players say it's wasted assets. Place those cars in a separate class, a Trophy class for older GT cars. Have the proper GT3 based cars compete as per normal.

 

[Keef]

The only reason that exists is because that is what PD have done. In GT5, We had an "official" GT3 class. Dream Cars, were the class that had all the fantasy cars. PD could revert to that.

I'd prefer an official class to make the game feel more like real life. However, the way PD painted GTS into a corner, everything is jumbled. The same way GR.1, GR.2 & GR.4 become a mess when it's a Daily and Nations event.

Now, in me saying GR.3 being the most balanced, it still has its quirks. I get that the average player may not care for the differences between an old Z4 GT3 versus the current M6 GT3. Again, that's how PD forces the player to play the game, the way PD want.

Remember, while GTS was being developed, their weren't any cars older than 2009(the Lotus Evora being that oldest car). All race cars were only a couple years old, from the original game debut for 2016. Game got delayed to 2017.

We know GR.3 is the bread and butter or steak & eggs or fish & grits in GTS. I think it wasn't necessary to add the older cars from GT1(F1, DBR9), GT2(M3), GTE(RSR, Supra).
It's similar to how some players say it's wasted assets. Place those cars in a separate class, a Trophy class for older GT cars. Have the proper GT3 based cars compete as per normal.

I suppose if you want the class to be official while sacrificing variety, appeal, sales, and player numbers then you’ll have to shuffle over to iRacing as discussed in the other thread. In my opinion, and I think in the vast majority of GT players’ opinions, racing an F1 against a Viper against a 911 against a Supra sounds like a good time, and fulfills the wish that we all have which is that all these manufacturers could actually agree with each other in real life and all race together in one class. Separating these cars only serves to annoy players, it doesn’t actually improve anything. GT is an international game and everybody from every country wants to race a car they can relate to.

 

[05XR8]

I suppose if you want the class to be official while sacrificing variety, appeal, sales, and player numbers then you’ll have to shuffle over to iRacing as discussed in the other thread. In my opinion, and I think in the vast majority of GT players’ opinions, racing an F1 against a Viper against a 911 against a Supra sounds like a good time, and fulfills the wish that we all have which is that all these manufacturers could actually agree with each other in real life and all race together in one class. Separating these cars only serves to annoy players, it doesn’t actually improve anything. GT is an international game and everybody from every country wants to race a car they can relate to.

Everyone was relating to the cars before those got added. There were GR.3 cars from every manufacturer, bar the Bugatti. I can't recall players not buying the game because the F1 wasn't available. I don't have a gaming PC. So I play ACC/AC/PC2&3 on PS4.

I am fine with options. What this thread is about, are revising
GR.3 and GR.4. There are obviously concerns players have with both groups. Players that have bought the game today, may not understand or even care about the concern.

Me, personally, I choose the newer cars. RC F '17, RX-Vision, M6 GT3. The older/out of class cars, due to their lack of downforce, do have negative effects during majority of the races, when an opponent uses it.
Replacing with the cars as Racecar is saying, helps to even the grid.

 

[TPGRacing75]

My stance is that IF you stick to real life classes for categorizing cars, There should be custom classes with whatever cars we please(atleast offline, though hosted lobbies might be fun too. Or at least be able to handpick cars in custom race options)

This is mainly from a selfish offline point of view, but part of why I love games like GT, Forza, and even AC is that fact you can pair cars together that may have never raced on the same track IRL, but still balance them to be around similar speeds. While it makes sense from a realism standpoint to separate GT3 and GTE, and older cars from newer ones, being forced to go OK you have picked GTE as a class, you can ONLY run GTE cars would be a bit of a bummer.

Then again, this POV is built from a guy who is sick and tired of classes in sims/games that only include 3-4 cars max in a class(see how GR.C is often portrayed in various titles. Porsche, Sauber, and MAYBE a Nissan/Mazda/Jaguar title dependant, when you have so many colorful options from both US, EU and JP)

 

[05XR8]

This is purely for reference. Not comparing this game to that and this game is better than that game.

Gr.3. With PD having grouped these cars, the amount PD have built(30+), the classes can be separated. Cars can be added/replaced as discussed.

GT3

20 GT3 cars in this list. Some sprint & endurance versions of the same GT3 car. The oldest cars are the 2015 R.S.01 & R8/R8 24H and Continental, 2013 Vantage, 2012 AMG & Z4. However, only the Z4 and SLS have been replaced by the AMG GT and M6. Players have the option to choose the two oldest cars from their respective manufacturers.
The latest Vanatge wasn't developed yet. So, no updated version.

This list includes an updated 2016 R35 GT-R, 488, GT3 R/GT3 R 24H, AMG GT, ATS-V.R, 650S. 2017 NSX and G55.

GTE

It's not a big class in real life. Why bother separating them? Well, if GT Sport utilised the multi-class option properly(not just one user car versus 19 AI in a different class), it makes perfect sense. The Gr.3 Supra and RSR fit such a class. Why PD picked the DBR9 and not the GTE car, I don't know. Same for the M6 GT3 launch car. Could have made it the GTE version.

GT1

We have the '95 F1 in the game. We have had the long tail version since GT4. Other notable cars we've had are the PAnoz, CLK-LM, GT-ONe and R390. Again, why PD went with the '95 F1 and placed it in Gr.3? I don't know.

From the GT7 trailer showing the 911 GT1 road car, MAYBE we see the 911 GT1 and past cars we've had in the pic above(could possibly be in GT7) grouped in a different class.

We just don't know why some cars were picked. Due to access, licencing, owner or manufacturer preferred.

Gr.4.

In the list above, five out of the eight choices are real GT4 cars. M3 is the oldest from 2012. Vantage is 2013. Cayman and X-Bow are 2016. The G55 is a 2017 model. The 302 R is real, but not specifically GT4 classed.
PD have given us 28 cars(27 excluding the Supra) to choose. In PD's words:

Group 4: Racecars with basic performance enhancements, such as additional safety equipment or weight optimization. This group corresponds to the FIA's GT4 class.

https://www.gran-turismo.com/us/gtsport/manual/#!/tips/content03

This is a list of homologated GT4 cars. None of which are AWD and/or FF. If PD are building cars to GT4 specs, as they've mentioned above, they should be cleaning up the drivetrains for GT7. It would make for close, not lopsided, racing.

 

[Keef]

We have the '95 F1 in the game. We have had the long tail version since GT4. Other notable cars we've had are the PAnoz, CLK-LM, GT-ONe and R390. Again, why PD went with the '95 F1 and placed it in Gr.3? I don't know.

Why on earth would the F1 GTR be placed with late-era GT1 cars? There is a considerable difference in performance and homologation between those two eras. Even the F1 longtail was pitiful compared to the Mercedes, Toyota, and Porsche. However, the F1 GTR is only a couple seconds faster per lap than modern GT3 cars. If you were to do this in real life, BOP would be achieved with a simply intake restrictor or added weight. The entire concept of the car being a racing modification of a street car is directly in line with modern GT3 as well. Same goes for your example of the F50 GT - yes it might have been intended for a class called GT1 which existed 25 years ago, but the class name doesn't really matter when its construction method and performance is in line with a modern category. Slowing that car down a couple seconds to compete with GT3 is a practical solution while speeding it up 10 seconds to compete with a 911 GT1-98 is not. The GT1 category is a terrible example of standardization because the differences in cars, homologation, and performance between 1995 and 1998 were completely unrecognizable. The core concept of the GT1 class died in 1996 with the introduction of the 911 GT1 and the category that ensued shared nothing with it besides the name.

That's why it makes sense to put the F1 GTR in the modern GT3 category, because in both essence and performance that's what the car is. Same reason there is effectively no difference between GT3 and GTE/GTD/GTLM. The cars in essence are the same and vary by literally a second or two per lap. BOP them.

Speaking of all these changes, I think instead of fussing about all these minor details we should start to look at this issue from the point of the developer. They have customers to relate to, FIA partnerships to honor, and limited resources to do these things, so what's the best way for them to honor these obligations? PD in essence is doing the same thing the engineers of these cars did, they're making the most effective decisions with what resources they have.

If we look at their FIA obligations first we can cover several bases. We've got the Nations Cup which implies that as many players from as many nations as possible should be represented, and the Manufacturers Cup which implies that as many OEMs from as many places as possible should be represented. Combined, these both have the effect of relating players of various nations to their favorite OEMs which in many cases are OEMs from their home country. So before we even flesh out details, it seems like PD should focus on offering as many OEMs from as many nations as possible because that will improve both Cups at the same time, and ultimately the Gran Turismo brand around the world.

So instead of updating the Jaguar, how about we add SEAT/Cupra? Britain is already represented, Spain isn't. Instead of updating Ferrari, why don't we add Skoda? Italy is already represented, Czech Republic isn't. Instead of updating Ford, they could add Lynk & Co. America is already represented, China isn't...and they've won a TCR championship.

While there aren't many other companies competing in GT categories as opposed to rally or TCR, that doesn't really matter considering PD can simply create racing modifications. The key point is that it would increase representation to a broader audience and allow more people to feel like they actually belong in the game. That is a much more effective use of development resources than nitpicking through class divisions or facelifting cars from countries with several different options. Sometimes these OEMs don't actually race anything but PD has given life to them in a realistic manner, given life to their fans, and could do it for thousands of other players who don't have a brand to embrace in the game.

After broadening the country scope, it would then be appropriate scan existing countries to add OEMs or cars that aren't in the game yet, for example the Ford GT GT3 or Alpine A110 GT4 and A110-50 as a GT3 version.

Only after adding representation and content would it be appropriate to facelift existing content and/or add the newer versions. Ideally they'd be able to do all of this - let's hope an entire year of extra development leads to that.

Edit: If they wanted to take this to the extreme, they could reintroduce racing modification like GT2. GTS sorely lacks this gameplay aspect and it would allow players to really find the right car for them. A hugely fun part of that game was driving all the racing modifications and I think if GT7 could combine that idea with the standardized categories and BOP then we'd literally have dozens and dozens of car options, many of which would be based on real race cars from years past but adjusted to fit the current categories. While this would be a huge development undertaking, I still think this would be a better use of time than realigning or facelifting.

 

[05XR8]

Huge development indeed. Hence, updating the current roster.

Again, we don't know why PD do what they do. PD say(well, Tom does, in the video) GR.3 is the focus. They've made cars that font have a GT3 representation. Kaz said it takes a long time to convert cars, like the FF RCZ, to MR GR.3 spec.

As far as older cars versus modern GT3 cars. There's a reason many players choose the modern car over the older car: downforce.
Just because the older car can compete with a new car at LeMans, doesn't mean it'll be competitive over four to five events at various twisty circuits. 2-3 seconds slower, is not acceptable in real life racing and it just kills any competitiveness virtually.

I've mentioned about TCR and have also Suggested certain TCR cars in the appropriate thread. It then becomes an added problem, to what we see with the various drivetrains in GR.4. For the sake of a country being represented, I'd rather PD just add the car because it's been in a category since 2015. Not because people from a country may feel underrepresented.

As a side, I watched the Motorsport Olympics. Drivers from many countries just used the cars that are homologated. PD have done this with liveries in One Make races. In real life, the World Formula GPs were done the same way. I don't mind an option to have cars from Iceland, Zaire, Peru, Australia be constructed, but that's too detailed as well.

 

[MIE1992]

I think the unusual combinations of cars in each class is fine, as it offers GT more of an identity beyond other racing games. I also think the larger issue is that there are far too many races that permit all cars within a certain class, rather than limiting it to a sub-group like we've seen with the Daily Races in GT Sport where you could only use the Group C cars within Gr.1. That's what I'd do.

But other than that, I actually look forward to more interesting race cars from both the past and present being added to each group, especially from lesser-known automakers. I could see KTM becoming eligible for the FIAGTC Manufacturers Series, for example, as they have both the X-Bow GT4 and the GTX, the latter of which would be a likely fit for Gr.3. Or we could get some older racers in Gr.3, like the Nissan Skyline GT-R R33 LM and Toyota Supra LM from the mid-90s, or the Maserati MC12, or even the Saleen S7-R. That's before we could potentially get GT2 racers from Panoz, TVR, and Spyker.

Next, someone mentioned something about the McLaren F1 GTR. I think it's fine for now that the 1995 iteration is in Gr.3, but I'm much less sure about the late-90s version, the "longtail" version. That, as well as other late-90s GT1 cars could easily end up in Gr.2, or even Gr.1, especially since one such car, the Panoz Esperante GTR-1, later competed as a prototype.

EDIT: I also wonder if the fact that most Gr.4 cars aren't actually GT4 cars - and are instead made-for-game racers - is due to licensing? I don't personally mind it, especially if they (and all the other made-for-game racers) become potential RM options in GT7, that is if the RM mechanic returns. Plus, we do end up with some interesting race cars that never were even in GT4 as far as I know, like those from Hyundai, Alfa Romeo, and Bugatti. (Even though the Veyron Gr.4 is basically a Veyron with its active aero in a fixed position...)

 

[tankuroded]

Going to link this /r/WEC GT lap times assessment again

Next, someone mentioned something about the McLaren F1 GTR. I think it's fine for now that the 1995 iteration is in Gr.3, but I'm much less sure about the late-90s version, the "longtail" version. That, as well as other late-90s GT1 cars could easily end up in Gr.2, or even Gr.1, especially since one such car, the Panoz Esperante GTR-1, later competed as a prototype.

At the moment, jury is still out on loophole GT1 cars (and the 1996 911 GT1, which was the the first of its kind).

 

[George Jakob]

First of all Group 3 and Group 4 should change stritcly to GT3 and GT4 either real or fictional but none of this "Audi TT Cup in Group 4 "etc 🤬.
As far as cars go (Not concidering any new brand that which might be added in GT7 & counting brands with cars for both classes)
Alfa Romeo Same line up as now at the very least.
Aston Martin
GT3
Aston Martin DBRS9 2006
Aston Martin V12 Vantage GT3 2012
Aston Martin Vantage AMR GT3 2019
GT4
Aston Martin V8 Vantage GR.4
Aston Martin Vantage AMR GT4 2019
Audi
GT3
Audi R8 LMS 2009
Audi R8 LMS Ultra 2012
Audi R8 LMS 2015
Audi R8 LMS Evo 2019
GT4
Audi R8 LMS GT4 2020
BMW
GT3
BMW Z4 GT3 2011
BMW M6 GT3 2016
BMW M4 GT3 2021
GT4
BMW M3 GT4 (E92) 2009
BMW M4 GR.4
BMW M4 GT4 2018
Chevrolet
GT3
Chevrolet Camaro GT3 2014
Chevrolet Corvette C7 GR.3
GT4
Chevrolet Camaro GT4.R 2017
Chevrolet Corvette C7 GR.4
Citroen Same as now.
Dodge
GT3
Dodge Viper Competition Coupe GT3 2006
Dodge Viper SRT GT3-R 2015
GT4
Dodge Viper GR.4
Ferrari
GT3
Ferrari 458 Italia GT3 2013
Ferrari 488 GT3 Evo 2020
GT4
Ferrari 458 Italia GR.4
Ford
GT3
Ford Mustang FR500GT3 2007
Lambda Performance
Ford GT GT3 2013
Ford Mustang GR.3
GT4
Ford Mustang GR.4
Ford Mustang GT4 2017
Honda
GT3
Honda NSX GR.3
Honda NSX GT3 Evo 2019
GT4
Honda NSX GR.4
Hyundai Same as now.
Jaguar
GT3
Emil Frey Racing
Jaguar XK Emil Frey G3 2016
Jaguar F-Type GR.3
GT4
Jaguar F-Type GR.4
Invictus Games Racing
Jaguar F-Type SVR GT4 2018
Lexus Same as now.
Maserati
GT3
Maserati Gransport Trofeo Light 2006
Maserati Gran Turismo GT3 2012
GT4
Maserati Gran Turismo MC GT4 2013
Mazda
GT3
Mazda Atenza GR.3
Mazda RX-Vision Concept GT3 2020
GT4
Mazda Atenza GR.4
Jota Sport
Mazda MX-5 GT4 (NC) 2012
McLaren
GT3
McLaren MP4-12C GT3 2013
McLaren 650S GT3 2015
McLaren 720S GT3 2019
GT4
McLaren 570S Coupe GT4 2016
McLaren 650S GR.4
Mercedes
GT3
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GT3 2011
#29 AMG-Team HTP-Motorsport
Mercedes-AMG GT3 2016
Mercedes-AMG GT3 Evo 2020
GT4
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GR.4
Mercedes-AMG GT4 2018
Nissan
GT3
Nissan GT-R Nismo GT3 2013
Nissan GT-R Nismo GT3 2018
GT4
RJN Motorsport
Nissan 370Z GT4 2018
Porsche
GT3
Porsche 911 GT3 R 2019
GT4
Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport 2016
Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport 2019
Toyota
GT3
Toyota FT-1 Vision Gran Turismo GR.3
GT4
Toyota SF-R Racing Concept 2016
Toyota 86 GR.4
Toyota GR Supra GT4 2020

 

[MIE1992]

At the moment, jury is still out on loophole GT1 cars (and the 1996 911 GT1, which was the the first of its kind).

Yeah, I'd be very surprised if they don't end up in Gr.2 or Gr.1. But I think they very well could end up in Gr.1, since one of those cars, the Panoz Esperante GTR-1, eventually did compete as a prototype, known as the Panoz GTP. That's before we get into stuff like cars that began in GT1 but eventually competed in LMGTP, like the Toyota GT-One (TS020).

 

[05XR8]

With that car list above, the Hyundai N-MR concept, could be added as a Gr.4 racer.