That's one crazy looking L28 with the triple Webers hanging off the manifold.
I would've kept the RR even though it's slower just because it's more rare.
I can understand the low front compression and high rear extension to induce entry oversteer, but the low rear comp and high front ext still boggles my mind. Wouldn't that normally create understeer on exit?
That's one crazy looking L28 with the triple Webers hanging off the manifold.
I know from experience you'll need bucket loads of patience tuning them up to all run together in unison. It certainly pays off when they do though
What size are those carbs?
Hey Ridox, finally I got round to trying your GT-R GT3. Using the hard springs and low preload LSD I took it to Brands Hatch. What can I say man...you completely dialed out the nasty tendencies of the stock car. No more entry understeer, no more snap oversteer on power. It's smooth as silk 👍 I also tried the softer springs and high preload, and it doesn't feel as good in my opinion. Oddly it makes it more like the car in the GTS build that I played. More lift off oversteer and more prone to the rear breaking loose under power. With GT6's physics it's not as bad though.
Compared to AC the general behaviour is similar. There's just too much grip overall in GT6 though and the brakes are wayyyy too good (similar case as with the Aventador). Maybe switching to SS tyres and reducing the brake balance will make it closer.
I'm curious though, with the softer springs setup your camber is lower? I thought softening springs usually need more camber because the car rolls more?
Also tried your Civic Mugen RR (stock & advanced concept). Crazy damper settings aside, it handles really well for an FF. If you don't know any better you would have thought it's 4WD with the way it puts power down and goes round corners. Really fun car to drive 👍 One of my friends actually had the RR a long time ago, but he sold it for a GT-R
Would you mind explaining the rationale behind the damper settings though?
The damper for the Civic, yeah keep in mind the numbers are not representative of the damper strength, 1 can still be more than enough, while 10 can still too low 
For the low rear compression and high front extension, the front extension is set at 10 to keep the nose down on acceleration, meaning the front tires will keep more traction on exit - remember that I also set the front compression to lowest. On FWD in GT6, it's easily felt if you use high front extension on front heavy car ( about 60% on front axle ), most players/tuners tend to use ballast and move it rearward, thus often do no feel this effect easily.
Nissan Fairlady 370Z Z34 Version NISMO 2009/2010
Tuned to replicate Nissan 370Z NISMO
Comfort Soft
CAR : Nissan Fairlady 370Z (Z34) '08
Tire : Comfort Soft
Specs Car & Driver 2009 NISMO 370Z Test BASE ( Sports Ex+Cat )
Horsepower: 350 HP at 7200 RPM
Torque: 277.4 ft-lb at 5500 RPM
Power Limiter at : 98.6%
Weight: 1515 kg
Ballast : 154 kg
Ballast Position : -19
Weight Distribution : 54 / 46 - to real life spec NISMO 370Z test 54.5 / 45.5
Performance Points: 469
Specs Car & Driver 2009 NISMO 370Z Test BASE ver2 ( Sports Ex+Cat )
( 370Z Touring Weight Distribution )
Horsepower: 350 HP at 7200 RPM
Torque: 277.4 ft-lb at 5500 RPM
Power Limiter at : 98.6%
Weight: 1515 kg
Ballast : 154 kg
Ballast Position : -46
Weight Distribution : 56 / 44 - to real life spec 370Z Touring 56.0 / 44.0
Performance Points: 469
Specs Car & Driver 2009 NISMO 370Z Test -ALTERNATE Power Upgrade
SEMI RACING EXHAUST ONLY
Horsepower: 350 HP at 7400 RPM
Torque: 277.4 ft-lb at 5400 RPM
Power Limiter at : 99.9% ( USE ONLY SEMI RACING EXHAUST )
Performance Points: 469
Specs Car & Driver 2009 NISMO 370Z Test -ALTERNATE Power Upgrade
INTAKE TUNING ONLY
Horsepower: 350 HP at 7200 RPM
Torque: 285.5 ft-lb at 5200 RPM
Power Limiter at : 99.8% ( USE ONLY INTAKE TUNING )
Performance Points: 470
GT AUTO
NO Oil change
Improve Body Rigidity ( NOT INSTALLED )
Rear Wing : Special Wing Type A
Aero Kits : Type A
Wheels : Standard Size Stock or PDI P525 or ENKEI RS05RR or ENKEI RPF1 or ENKEI RP03 in Black
Car Paint : Ultimate Metal Silver (4M)
Tuning Parts Installed :
Sports Exhaust
Catalytic Converter Sports
Semi Racing Exhaust - ONLY FOR Alternate Spec, do not use sports exhaust or catalytic converter sports
Intake Tuning - ONLY FOR Alternate Spec, do not use sports exhaust or catalytic converter sports
Adjustable LSD
Fully Customizable Suspension
Weight Reduction Stage 1
Suspension - Nissan NISMO OEM Springs/Damper - BASE
Nissan OEM Alignment
Front, Rear
Ride Height: 114 114
Spring Rate: 8.06 9.08
Dampers (Compression): 4 7
Dampers (Extension): 2 4
Anti-Roll Bars: 3 3
Camber Angle: 1.4 2.1
Toe Angle: 0.11 0.21
Suspension - Nissan NISMO OEM Springs/Damper - OPTIONAL Roehrig Tested Rate
Nissan OEM Alignment
Front, Rear
Ride Height: 114 114
Spring Rate: 8.6 9.3
Dampers (Compression): 4 7
Dampers (Extension): 2 4
Anti-Roll Bars: 3 3
Camber Angle: 1.4 2.1
Toe Angle: 0.11 0.21
NISSAN 370Z OEM Alignment Range :
Camber
Front Range : (+)0.41 to -0.67 to -1.41
Rear Range : -1.17 to -1.67 to -2.16
Toe
Front Range : 0.06 to 0.11 to 0.17
Rear Range : 0.11 to 0.22 to 0.33
LSD NISSAN VLSD ( Viscous LSD ) Base
OEM Fitment for NISMO 370Z
Rear
Initial Torque : 24
Acceleration Sensitivity: 12
Braking Sensitivity: 5
LSD 1.5 Way NISMO GT LSD
Optional
Rear
Initial Torque : 14
Acceleration Sensitivity: 36
Braking Sensitivity: 5
Brake Balance:
6/6 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 4/4, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance.
Recommended setting for DS3 user :
Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 6/6 brake balance as starting point.
Notes :
The NISMO Fairlady Z34 370Z is the high performance version offered by NISMO. Here is a summary of the changes :
"The 370Z Nismo has several modifications to make it faster. The engine produces 350 hp (260 kW) at 7,400 RPM and 276 lb·ft (374 N·m) at 5,200 RPM with revised ECU settings and exhaust setup. It uses the 6-speed manual transmission with Nissan's SynchroRev Match feature, as well a viscous limited-slip differential, lightweight Rays forged aluminum wheels with P245/40YR19 front and P285/35YR19 rear tires, bigger brakes (14.0-inch front rotors, 13.8-inch rear), Nismo front strut brace, and firmer shocks, springs and stabilizer bars. The exterior gets a special nose with an integrated chin spoiler, side sills, a unique rear bumper, and a taller rear spoiler. Inside, there are Nismo logos on the seats, which feature black and red fabric with red stitching, a Nismo tachometer, red stitching on the steering wheel, a leather-wrapped shift knob, aluminum pedals and a serialized plaque of authenticity."
For power, the replica uses several path to reach the target power at 350HP and torque as close to 277
Suspension uses OEM Nissan NISMO spring rate at
FRONT OEM Linear 79 N/mm / 8.06 kg/mm
REAR OEM Linear 89 N/mm / 9.08 kg/mm
These are claimed official OEM rate, while when tested on Roehrig tester, the actual rate are 8.60 kg/mm and 9.30 kg/mm. I included these as optional.
The rate can be replicated in GT6, with damper and ARB tuned to give the NISMO 370Z more response handling than the base 370Z. The Fairlady 370Z Nissan OEM alignment has also been used.
Gear ratio is correct this time, and LSD has been set with NISSAN VLSD, standard fitment on NISMO 370Z. This gives very good balance of traction and handling. While the other is the aggressive NISMO GT LSD with low preload and good locking power. This will transform the handling, more raw and edgy but more potential.
The NISMO 370Z in 2009 Best Motoring test managed 1:06.643 lap driven by Seiji Ara, this is possible with the replica on CS tire. I have tested at Tsukuba, and with base spec ver2 ( 370 Touring distribution 56/44 ) and base VLSD, it managed 1:05.7xx. The replay has been included.
For best experience and closest spec, the base ( sports exhaust+cat ) and semi racing exhaust only is preferred.
Added replay of a test run at Laguna Seca with NISMO 370Z on 56/44 distribution and NISMO GT LSD, time at 1:43s, CS tire.
UPDATE August 2016 : Updated rear damper compression, increased to 7, lowered both anti roll bar from 5/5 to 3/3. This should give better stability. Racing Exhaust can also be used if prefer the sound of it, use limiter to hit 350HP.
Also testing the Cizeta V16T road car build on CH, going great. The F40 LM may also be released, 750PS, will use weight calculated from dry weight difference between road F40 and F40 LM ( about 100kg lighter ), with suspension from previously released F40 build.
The GTR GT3 soft springs induce more weight transfer, which is why more prone to oversteer, while the camber being lower, a car with high aero grip and softer springs will roll more, and cause more dynamic camber changes as result due to the added suspension movement/travel during acceleration/braking and cornering. I reduced the camber as the car will dive/squat more, leans more when pushed hard. GT6 do simulate dynamic camber changes and visually can be seen as well.
Often cars with stiff springs also may still run with high camber, it depends a lot on how much grip the tire have, and the motion ratio of the suspension or the actual wheel rate ( this is real life though )
Glad the Mugen drives well, your friend should have kept the RR
For rear compression, with the nose more planted during acceleration, I set the rear on lowest to keep things balanced and to smooth the reaction from stiffer rear roll bar. You can try increase rear compression and see what happens, try 5 or 7
Cheers mate, thanks for that explanation on camber. I think I get it now. I didn't know that GT simulates dynamic camber changes. Despite all the shortcomings, GT's suspension physics ain't so bad after all
For the dampers, so basically high front extension can have 2 outcomes?
1) Keeps the nose down on acceleration --> thus providing more front grip
2) Prevents inner front tyre from coming back down to the ground when lifting in hard cornering --> thus causing less grip
How do you keep effect 1 and avoid effect 2 in the Civic? And for other cars, how do you know which effect it will be? Is it dependent on weight distribution (front heavy cars more likely to be effect 1, rear heavy cars more likely effect 2)? Or just trial and error?
The way I do it, is to drive it and see how the car behave to the changes, the weight also have big influence on how the suspension perform. If you are curious, move the ballast to the rear, and drive it again I find that in GT6, FF and AWD cars often likes high front extension and rear extension. RH tires also allow the GT6 GTR GT3 keep up pace with the real car lap at Spa.
I think I used low ARB (2) on the front of the Civic, also low compression damper, to reduce chances of a wheel lifting off the ground
For other FF cars, I suggest to increase the front extension slowly, and depending on how much weight/spring rate used, you may need high value or low
Regarding brake power, GT6 do have powerful brakes, for the GTR GT3, lowering the brakes closer to 1 or 2 may be necessary. I often found normal brakes not good enough, thus I often run high brake balance trying to get similar braking distance to real life reference lap
The BB that I set for the GTR GT3 was to get close to Nick McMillen lap at Spa ( I used his onboard lap run ), he braked hard all the time, and it's best to use real life as reference than other games
Ah yes, you used quite low front ARB and soft front springs in the Civic (softer front than rear in fact, despite the Civic being front heavy). That might help alleviate the lifting inner tyre side effect. I always forgot to look at the suspension as a whole working together instead of just the individual components
Regarding the brakes, if the GT6 car is close to real life, then in that case maybe it's Assetto that's wrong and have too weak brakes. Tbh I don't like how brake pressure and brake balance is lumped under one setting in GT5/6. IIRC in GT2 you can set brake strength and balance separately. The same with PC sims.
It's pretty mild compared to the likes of Spoon. I set the damper pretty soft on the S2000, so smoothness is paramount
The spring rate on the Mugen RR is based on real Mugen coilover kit rate
Also consider when you drive in offline mode is different than online with tire/fuel consumption enabled, you will have longer braking distance, a bit less grip as well due to the simulated fuel and tire wearing out.
If you want challenge, drive the Honda S2000 replica I posted on last page, try that online at Tsukuba and try to beat the Best Motoring lap record 1:07s ( in the notes ), use CS tire with tire/fuel consumption on normal or fast, you may need low fuel load
Real lovely car to drive 👍
Oh, so you always test your cars online? Besides the tyre/fuel load I thought GT6 physics is the same online/offline.
Sadly my network connection doesn't allow me to go online. It's a NAT issue. I can connect to servers and do seasonals, but no QM or lobbies for me. Unfortunately because I live in shared apartment there's nothing I can do to change it
I drove your S2000 too. Smooth is key as you said
I do not always test them online, the physics is not really the same of course as offline, the fuel and tire wear are not simulated, which is why I hated how PD locked out the options in GT6 offline mode.
I have very slow connection ( less then 256kbps up/down ) when I ran out of fair usage limit, and sometimes only NAT 3, but I can still host a room albeit at reduced player limit for stability ( 3 or 4 max ) and usually room quality at low or standard. I often host for hours without issue
The S2000 is underrated in GT6 ( the premium one ), still wish the AP1 1999-2000 S2000 also a premium
I mean we can set fuel/tyre depletion in GT5, why is it removed??? 
The S2000 is underrated in GT6 ( the premium one ), still wish the AP1 1999-2000 S2000 also a premium
Yeah it's so stupid how PD always managed to remove features from each new game
I thought it's weird that the newest S2000 doesn't have the highest PP. Normally the premium models are always top of the range. I was hoping they would add the final model S2000 CR. That would be awesome to have in GTS
) Oh, also exclusive CR Apex Blue Pearl paint Excuse me for pinching my way in, but let's not forget how awesome the F20C motor is
and he gave great impression about the car 
When checking suspension as whole packet you should start everything from actual weight on springs and springs itself. That's defining 90% of car behavior. If supported weights vs spring rates varies lot then you have really minimal affect on other parts (dampers arb), but if weight is supported close to same rate on both ends then you can do magic with dampers and arb to change characteristics of car totally different. It's just timing what component gives up first under mass movement/pressure and how much using suspension partsAh yes, you used quite low front ARB and soft front springs in the Civic (softer front than rear in fact, despite the Civic being front heavy). That might help alleviate the lifting inner tyre side effect. I always forgot to look at the suspension as a whole working together instead of just the individual components
I could make a 2008 S2000 CR from the S2000 replica I posted on page 153, the main difference is suspension ( springs,damper,ARB, rear cross brace ) which I have data on, wider rear tires ( 255 vs 245 normal S2000 ), Potenza RE070 instead RE050 ( CS or maybe SH ), sports muffler, quicker steering ratio, lower shift knob for shorter stoke/throw and the rear wing ( not sure if can be replicated visually ), as well as body kit/front spoiler which reduced lift, 49kg lighter ( A/C, stereo and sound deadener removal, but Honda still offer option to include these ), some chassis strenghtening + aluminum hard top ( which adds weight back around 27kg
Needless to say it ruined the handling. I'm not even gonna try to explain how the car behaves here When checking suspension as whole packet you should start everything from actual weight on springs and springs itself. That's defining 90% of car behavior. If supported weights vs spring rates varies lot then you have really minimal affect on other parts (dampers arb), but if weight is supported close to same rate on both ends then you can do magic with dampers and arb to change characteristics of car totally different. It's just timing what component gives up first under mass movement/pressure and how much using suspension parts
Civic is "easy" car mostly due low center of gravity, programmed in game as in real world, sad at we don't have CoG measuring possible on GT6, just feeling it and adjusting by feeling.
Having moved onto PC sims where the physics are supposed to be way superior to consoles, I can tell you that GT6's physics are actually pretty damn awesome, to be honest with you. I think a good amount of that PC Sim superiority is a bunch of crap. Sure, there are many differences, but GT6 deserves a lot more respect than it's given and anyone who tells you differently is not judging GT6 fairly and without bias.I didn't know that GT simulates dynamic camber changes. Despite all the shortcomings, GT's suspension physics ain't so bad after all
Oh, I completely agree that difficulty in driving doesn't make a game more realistic. In fact, I think it's the opposite. A realistic game should drive just as easily as a real car drives. We all can drive real cars, right? If you have to "learn how to drive" in a game/sim that tells me the game is unrealistic. And don't get me wrong. I think AC definitely has better physics and ffb. I just don't think the gap between GT6 and AC is as big as a lot of people make it out to be. Maybe I'm wrong. It's just an opinion.Actually I believe GT6 is still a long way off in terms of physics and FFB. It's not simcade as some PC elitists claim, but some aspects are certainly still behind sims that came out 10+ years ago (LFS, rFactor, GTR2, et al). From what I played, GTS is only a marginal improvement. It's not gonna be better than PCARS, let alone AC.
I drive GT6 with Comfort tyres for all road cars and ABS off, and jumping from GT6 straight to AC (with the same car & track) is like switching from SDTV to HDTV in terms of driving feedback clarity. It's not way off, but everything just feels more crisp and clear. GT6 is ok if you're used to it, but comparing it side by side you really notice the vagueness. Suspension is overdamped, tyres behave like solid cylinders, FFB is numb, weight shifting is watered down and there is no drivetrain shock. Driving on the limit is even worse. Just look at the Ridge Racer style GT Academy top replays. If you want proof that something's wrong with GT physics, there is the evidence. Take a look at AC top times and the cars behave exactly like IRL.
AC being more realistic doesn't mean it's more difficult, mind. In fact I think it's easier to drive in AC because the FFB is just so clear and the cars behave as expected. Whether or not the average GT6 player (most only playing on controller) will be able to appreciate this is another matter.
If real life is 100%, I'd put AC at 95%, PCARS 90%, GT and Forza around 80-85%, GRID at 75%, NFS at 50% and Mario Kart at 10%
)
Seems pretty double. Maybe you could even use the Opera S2000 or Amuse S2000 R1? I think those came with a little front downforce stock. There's no shortage of tuner S2000s in this game to play around with to find the best fit (Opera, Amuse, Spoon, Mugen and fantasy Gran Turismo LM edition).
I also tested the Civic some more. Higher rear compression gives more oversteer on entry. I actually like it at 7 more than 1 lol. Maybe it's just my driving style though. Softer front extension gives a lot more understeer on power. No debate here, the car just plows on exits at 1 and it's horrible to drive.
Also tried putting 200kg ballast at the rear
Yeah I figured spring rate got to be matched to the car's weight. With the Civic it's heavy front, but Ridox uses softer front springs. How do you explain that it's so sensitive to suspension changes?
Actually I believe GT6 is still a long way off in terms of physics and FFB. It's not simcade as some PC elitists claim, but some aspects are certainly still behind sims that came out 10+ years ago (LFS, rFactor, GTR2, et al). From what I played, GTS is only a marginal improvement. It's not gonna be better than PCARS, let alone AC.
I drive GT6 with Comfort tyres for all road cars and ABS off, and jumping from GT6 straight to AC (with the same car & track) is like switching from SDTV to HDTV in terms of driving feedback clarity. It's not way off, but everything just feels more crisp and clear. GT6 is ok if you're used to it, but comparing it side by side you really notice the vagueness. Suspension is overdamped, tyres behave like solid cylinders, FFB is numb, weight shifting is watered down and there is no drivetrain shock. Driving on the limit is even worse. Just look at the Ridge Racer style GT Academy top replays. If you want proof that something's wrong with GT physics, there is the evidence. Take a look at AC top times and the cars behave exactly like IRL.
Things like dynamic camber may be modelled, but the effect is so hard to detect. You need a car tuned on razor sharp settings to feel any changes. It's actually really hard to break car setups in GT. Whereas in PC sims if you don't know what you're doing you can make a car undrivable really really easily.
AC being more realistic doesn't mean it's more difficult, mind. In fact I think it's easier to drive in AC because the FFB is just so clear and the cars behave as expected. Whether or not the average GT6 player (most only playing on controller) will be able to appreciate this is another matter.
If real life is 100%, I'd put AC at 95%, PCARS 90%, GT and Forza around 80-85%, GRID at 75%, NFS at 50% and Mario Kart at 10%
Again I must stress, it's not that GT is bad. But the competition has moved on since 10 years ago. It's embarrassing for a company of PD's reputation to not keep with the times. That's my main problem. It's a relative assessment, not an absolute one.
I love these! Amazingly well balanced, a pleasure to race them! 👍
It might have had something to do with everybody else getting into trouble/chain-reaction bumping on the first lap, but we don't talk about that part... 
, like race car high ), still it was a pretty close to real car performance, may post it as well ( 2 specs, 2004 and 2007 using Tsukuba lap as reference )
