RIP Holden

[Swagger897]

So I guess Ford won.

Actually ford is shutting down a lot of the utility vehicle factories down under, which was released early this year. No one wins when a co goes broke, no one

 

[ShiftingGears]

So I guess Ford won.

Ford will stop manufacturing in Australia in 2016.

 

[stucar17]

Ford will stop manufacturing in Australia in 2016.

Correct.....you will also find that Toyota will now be forced out because the parts manufactures wont be competitive based on the size of their shrinking production runs

The whole issue is that the government has had to subsidize Holden for the last few years to the tune of 150 mill a year. GM in the US is not broke, but when the labor government ran up huge debts here in OZ, there is only so much money to go round.

The local unions have fought very hard on pay rates and conditions, which at the end of the day have rendered the local industry uncompetitive, and the GM global don't want to spend their money on keeping an uncompetitive production line afloat.

Here we are today, the local car industry about to pull the plug, and unions who pushed for increased wages and better conditions with no where to work because they are now too expensive in what is now a global market...well done !

 

[Nikked]

Holden is a GM division, they are stopping the manufacturing arm, the company it's self will still trade a Holden.


Just means that the Commodore will cease, and the Cruze will be imported from now on.

 

[WCheffirs]

Australian cars are subsidised less per car than those in Germany or Japan. It's not like the industry is impossible to run just that the government of the day have pulled out. The high exchange rate for Australia due to the mining sector hurts too.

 

[Grayfox]

Fisker is in the game and they went bust.

 

[Nikked]

Fisker is in the game and they went bust.

Pontiac...

 

[Sturdy]

I currently run a VXR8 (HSV Clubsport) and also had a Monaro 3 years ago, most of these Aussie cars get modified by their owners, and we are a small but dedicated group of followers 👍

I run a Monaro VXR, would be a dream come true if it appeared in GT one day as a premium car.

 

[colj00]

Correct.....you will also find that Toyota will now be forced out because the parts manufactures wont be competitive based on the size of their shrinking production runs

The whole issue is that the government has had to subsidize Holden for the last few years to the tune of 150 mill a year. GM in the US is not broke, but when the labor government ran up huge debts here in OZ, there is only so much money to go round.

The local unions have fought very hard on pay rates and conditions, which at the end of the day have rendered the local industry uncompetitive, and the GM global don't want to spend their money on keeping an uncompetitive production line afloat.

Here we are today, the local car industry about to pull the plug, and unions who pushed for increased wages and better conditions with no where to work because they are now too expensive in what is now a global market...well done !

Hyundai is smirking at us aussies...

 

[stucar17]

Hyundai is smirking at us aussies...

I think a lot of them are Col. It doesnt matter what industry you look at in Australia we are drowning in red-tape, legislation and political correctness that is slowly destroying our competitiveness.

China and India produce power cheaper than we do after they import Australian coal. Energy is Australia's big world advantage, yet we destroy it with tax and red-tape. We import fruit for Christ sake, while we destroy our own crops. We send fish to Thailand to be cleaned, then send it back again, cheaper than doing it all here! What chance has the car industry have !

Back to GT6 for some therapy !

 

[Craze63AMG]

Does Holden becoming defunct mean it will no longer appear in future Gran Turismo games due to legal issues?

I thought they were just shutting down production of vehicles in Australia, and that they were still going to export models to AUS. Are they actually killing the brand ENTIRELY?!

 

[stucar17]

I thought they were just shutting down production of vehicles in Australia, and that they were still going to export models to AUS. Are they actually killing the brand ENTIRELY?!

They are just shutting down Australian production and then will import the cars.

What name will they use ? Speculation is that they will keep the "Holden" name and just re-badge, like they do with a number of models now.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Hudson has been dead for about 60 years now but it has been part of a big advertising campaign with Mario Andretti and will be in game eventually.

Exactly, GM will still own the rights (just like Pontiac) and if someone is willing to pay the price, they will have Holden's on the virtual plane.

They are just shutting down Australian production and then will import the cars.

What name will they use ? Speculation is that they will keep the "Holden" name and just re-badge, like they do with a number of models now.

Well the SS is just a Holden Commodore so just a re-badge.

 

[stucar17]

Exactly, GM will still own the rights (just like Pontiac) and if someone is willing to pay the price, they will have Holden's on the virtual plane.



Well the SS is just a Holden Commodore so just a re-badge.

The SS was manufactured here in OZ and then exported to the US. TBH im not sure if, and how many are made elsewhere and exported to the US. I dont "think" we had the capacity to produce the total number required to fill orders.

So, unless there is a commodore being produced somewhere else then the car will cease to exist. The talk here is the Camaro might become Australia's "New Commodore"

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The SS was manufactured here in OZ and then exported to the US. TBH im not sure if, and how many are made elsewhere and exported to the US. I dont "think" we had the capacity to produce the total number required to fill orders.

So, unless there is a commodore being produced somewhere else then the car will cease to exist. The talk here is the Camaro might become Australia's "New Commodore"

No you guys didn't and really who can blame the order not being filled, NA has a massive market and then you have to ship the damn things here. Anyways the only reason I care is because that is the only chance (other than the GTO, I hate the G8) for me to own a proper Aussie sedan, that has U.S. badges. I don't see the Commodore (SS) going anytime soon from here in the states at least.

 

[Furinkazen]

Will this affect the V8 Supercar programme in any way?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Will this affect the V8 Supercar programme in any way?

Probably better asked in that area Furi, I too have been waiting for the answer.

 

[stucar17]

Probably better asked in that area Furi, I too have been waiting for the answer.

Short answer is YES, it will effect V8SC in a big way.

The rules currently state that the cars are to be 4 door sedans, running V8 engines. The rules will need to be changed if they want to run cars of similar size to fit the current "car of the future" regs. These cars include the Camaro for holden (Chevy) or the Mustang for ford. Nissan and Mercedes will be relatively safe for the time being as their cars are not on the chopping block. The big thin for them will be changing regs, however nissan could possible go to the GTR and mercedes have a raft of 2 door cars that could be suited.

@ LMS, does you last opening line mean that we couldnt fill the orders? Lost in translation, sorry.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Short answer is YES, it will effect V8SC in a big way.

The rules currently state that the cars are to be 4 door sedans, running V8 engines. The rules will need to be changed if they want to run cars of similar size to fit the current "car of the future" regs. These cars include the Camaro for holden (Chevy) or the Mustang for ford. Nissan and Mercedes will be relatively safe for the time being as their cars are not on the chopping block. The big thin for them will be changing regs, however nissan could possible go to the GTR and mercedes have a raft of 2 door cars that could be suited.

@ LMS, does you last opening line mean that we couldnt fill the orders? Lost in translation, sorry.

It's been reported that orders filled on them are backlogged. Also we know the rules around here quite well for V8SC since we hang out and have quite the productive thread on it in the motorsports sub-forum. Most news is about Volvo in the V8SC

 

[QuikSlvr223]

Pontiac...

You're gonna make me cry.

 

[Swagger897]

Bloomberg just released that Australia gained 21,000 jobs last month, beating a 10,000 estimate... If those are the piss poor estimates, what the heck do you do?

US Big Business CEO's honestly have no idea on a customer standpoint what they want. They update models to current trends, and they screw up, losing tons of customers. Exactly what ford did with the Microsoft sync. Everyone now wants buttons back.

And to add in that GM's world production manager is a woman, smh. You just got sold by the US gov't to Canadians (no offense). So many good companies were lost post 2008, now we are paying for the mistakes we made yesteryear today.

 

[CarreraGT]

I don't think Holden plans to cease to exist, just to stop producing cars in Australia. I believe they will still import other GM cars and brand them as Holdens.

Correct. Holden already import the barina, Astra, vectra etc., GM are just pulling local manufacturing (which is sad but makes sense given the high cost of production in Australia).

Holden will continue to sell everything except for locally produced models, i.e. commodore and cruze I think, but hopefully we pick up a couple of international GM models to replace them. Cadillac CTS would be nice...

 

[CarreraGT]

So I guess Ford won.

Um, no. Ford announced earlier this year that they are ceasing local production in 2016

 

[slackboy72]

Toyota will go too.

Seriously considering how much mining and agriculture get subsidised in Australia in the order of tens of billions it's a shame that the current government was happy to scrimp on a lousy $150m a year.
Ultimately it's the high AUD that is doing this, not unions. Add to that an inferior local product due to protectioninst policies dating back to Menzies and Holden and Ford were always up the creek without a paddle.

 

[stucar17]

i wouldnt say that $150 mill is lousy. If it was a piddling amount of money, and it was worth GM to have the plant then they would have coughed up the dough to keep it running.

Fact is, the costs outweigh value. Even as late as 2 weeks ago they (the workers) received a 3% pay rise when the agreement for a new cruize and commodore model wasnt met. The unions pushed for this in the first instance, under a labor government, and now with a change of government, and no new handouts, GM are pulling the pin because they dont want to pay more than they have to, or what they can overseas.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Um, no. Ford announced earlier this year that they are ceasing local production in 2016

Exactly I was going to mention this since it was discussed in the V8SC thread, and I believe the mustang but in a more fusion looking form or something is suppose to go to Aussie.

 

[stucar17]

Its certainly an interesting time in more ways than one.

What will be the car that replaces both the commodore and falcon, and what will the rule changes be that moves V8SC forward in the future.

For ford, i am hearing that the Fusion will be its replacement. Aussies car preferences have been towards smaller and more economical, something that the Mustang doesnt really portray, not to mention its a 2 door.

 

[slackboy72]

Stucar17,
$150m isn't a lot when you consider how much gets given to farmers ($8bn+ per year). Considering that govt revenue is $370b+ $150m is a trivial amount. Keep blaming unions if you want but the reality is Holden and Ford have been losing market share to the likes of Hyundai, VW and anyone else who makes decent modern cars. How long did they use that crappy V8 in the Holden? You know the Buick design from the 60s.
Holden and Ford's main problem wasn't labour costs. It was that they were making a product that Australian customers didn't really want. Their main problem was that they were owned and run by GM and Ford.

 

[stucar17]

Agree with everything you said, but you need to look at it in context of the current government financial position for them pulling the funding.

The Libs have been handed a basket case from the former labor government. In that context, 150 mill is a lot of money when they are trying to get the national debt under control. As you say, the fact the cars from both makers stopped selling is the defining factor, but a factor that highlights the uncompetitive costs that are associated with production in australia.

 

[slackboy72]

The governments finances are not a basket case at all.
Go and look at relative measures of public debt. We're sitting very pretty.
Just because Abbott and Hockey say something doesn't make it true.