RL Rally disasters!

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wildbillk

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I've been doing a bunch of the rally races lately in GT4 and I think its pretty cool that it looks like real rallies, that is the bystanders on the side. Well that part I always find really funny... in a confusing, disturbing sort of way. I remember learning one track I ran straight into a crowd but of course the game's invisible barrier stopped me. Well... so what happens in real life?

I was reading the forums while watching a sports disasters show. Lots of car crashes of course since what's more entertaining then watching a car disentigrate (and the driver walks away). So here's this clip of a guy coming around a tight corner (I think in a Citroen) way too fast and the rear spins out making the car slide into a crowd of people STANDING AT THE CORNER LIKE A HUMAN WALL... Well needless to say probably 20+ people got knocked over like bowling pins. There was also footage from the in car camera. It's astounding! People just flying off the car in all directions. So what does the driver and navigator do after seeing all the bodies fly off their car/bowling ball? Back up and get back on the track to finish the race of course! The show must go on. lol

This as a spectator sport just dumbfounds me. Why people would stand on the side of a very slippery track with no walls is remarkably stupid. Even dumber are the people who stand at corners... Hey people, FYI that little rope you stand behind isn't going to do much to stop a 3000 pound vehicle.

So who here has been to a rally race? And did you stand on the side of the track? If so how high is your IQ? lol j/k I've never seen a rally race in RL but I've done some strip racing (sanctioned) and I've been to a few NASCAR races (cousin is in the pit crew for Tony Stewart) and plenty of NHRA drag races. I don't see what's so exciting about rally races as a spectator since most of the time all you see is a car for 5 seconds? It's not so big in the US but I love the concept of it all.

They should let me drive a real rally car. By halfway through the race nobody would stand anywhere near the track without 3 feet of contrete between them and me.
 
I agree.

Standing in corners watching is like giving up your life temporarily to a shelf; if you survive you get it back and goes home; if you don't survive then your life is given up.

I hope what you know what I mean...
 
heh I was looking for the video of that crash online. I don't like seeing people get hurt though but as long as nobody is fatally injured, I don't mind seeing a video. It's part of the sport and we accept the risks. (coming from someone who broke his back in a hockey game)

BTW to the people asking what downforce does... here is what happens when you lose it... lol (also one of GT4's most used cars in B-spec)

Still better driving then B-Spec Bob...
 
wildbillk
heh I was looking for the video of that crash online. I don't like seeing people get hurt though but as long as nobody is fatally injured, I don't mind seeing a video. It's part of the sport and we accept the risks. (coming from someone who broke his back in a hockey game)

BTW to the people asking what downforce does... here is what happens when you lose it... lol (also one of GT4's most used cars in B-spec)

Still better driving then B-Spec Bob...
Click to expand...


:lol:👍

good search
 
Just finished Fuji 1000k yay! Man my eyes are burning I dont know how people could do a 24 hour... or even an 8 hour. Can you save during an enduro or do you just have to pause?

Anyways back on topic:
Seriously... how much of a fan are you?
(not for the squemish but its bad quality, nobody critically injured to my knowledge)

You think hitting the fans is bad?

This is hilarious (watch the navigator in the second car)

This looks like me on on Cathedral Rocks 1 trying to win the Escudo. (Used the Impreza rally car -bought)

This happened right after...

heh just got done doing a 5 hour race but this makes me want to do some more special condition rally :)
 
I've spectated at a number of different rally events (WRC, National and Club events) and standing on a corner is not that dangerous if you exercise so common sense.

By this I mean you stand on the inside of the corner not the outside, which dramitically reduces the chances of being caught up in an accident. A lot of events do not allow spectators to stand on the outside of a bend for this very reason.

However even given this you need to remember what printed on most tickets - Motorsport is dangerous.

Additionally as with any area of Motorsport if it does become a problem then action is generally taken, stages with to many spectators or badly located spectators will generally be cancelled. Its must also be remembered that spectator and driver deathes was the reason group B was banned, and this clip clearly shows why.

Audi - Group B

In regard to not seeing the enjoyment of going to watch a live rally, well it does of course depend on what you enjoy, but I can assure you its far more that watching a car go by for 5 seconds. The number of cars passing is high and if you know the event you can move from corner to corner, jump to jump, etc.

The same arguments you have used for not understanding why someone would go to a live rally event could be used for NASCAR (watch cars turn left for a day) or Drag racing (watch a car go in a straight line for a few seconds). Both oval and drag racing are far more exciting to watch than that, but both could be described as boring by those descriptions. Please be aware that this is how oval and drag racing could be described, not how I would describe them, I've watched and enjoyed both.



Regards

Scaff
 
I was just being lighthearted about it. I still think its crazy to be on the track though, some of these people get in the worst of positions and within inches of a car going 100mph+ past them on very slippery surfaces. Not a gamble I would take! Still, I think rally racing is some of the most exciting even though I know almost nothing about it. It's too bad it gets so little media coverage here in the US. It's far more exciting then ring races. Half the people that go to nascar want to see a crash...

Watching something like this makes me want to watch alot more rally racing. It astounds me how these racers can go on such narrow roads on those conditions and fly at those speeds. It's insane! So much precision and control in watch seems like chaos.

Hey Scaff I cant get that linked file to work. maybe it's cuz I am on my mac laptop. Some WMV files don't work well on mac windows media player. I'll try on my PC later. I assume its a crash with people? I'd probably rather not even watch it. :(

Can you explain what group B is and I assume they ended it due to bystander accidents? Like I said, I don't know jack about rally.

btw my first racing experience, I was about 6-7yo. My father took me to a dirt track race. One of the cars toppled over on the fence in front of us (nobody was injured). It was hockey and football games from there on lol
 
wildbillk
I was just being lighthearted about it. I still think its crazy to be on the track though, some of these people get in the worst of positions and within inches of a car going 100mph+ past them on very slippery surfaces. Not a gamble I would take! Still, I think rally racing is some of the most exciting even though I know almost nothing about it. It's too bad it gets so little media coverage here in the US. It's far more exciting then ring races. Half the people that go to nascar want to see a crash...

Watching something like this makes me want to watch alot more rally racing. It astounds me how these racers can go on such narrow roads on those conditions and fly at those speeds. It's insane! So much precision and control in watch seems like chaos.

Hey Scaff I cant get that linked file to work. maybe it's cuz I am on my mac laptop. Some WMV files don't work well on mac windows media player. I'll try on my PC later. I assume its a crash with people? I'd probably rather not even watch it. :(

Can you explain what group B is and I assume they ended it due to bystander accidents? Like I said, I don't know jack about rally.

btw my first racing experience, I was about 6-7yo. My father took me to a dirt track race. One of the cars toppled over on the fence in front of us (nobody was injured). It was hockey and football games from there on lol
Click to expand...

The video clip doesn't contain an accident, it just shows what the crowds used to be like during the days of group B rally.

For a brief history of group b click on this link, but in a nutshell group b cars were very high tech (for the time) mainly four wheel drive cars pushing out upwards of 400 - 500 bhp. A good number of these cars as in GT4, such as the Pug 205, Renault 5 Turbo, etc.

Personally I'm a life long rally fan (one of my earliest memories is watching MK2 Escorts on the RAC Rally of Great Britain aged about 5), and the days of group B was during my teens. As such I have a huge collection of rally DVDs, videos, books etc.

You may also find the following of interest, its a website for an event held each year near me that is dedicated to rally cars of all ages.

Rally Supercar Day

Regards

Scaff

Edited to add, just watched the video you linked in and all the cars in that clip are group b cars, and crowds of that size and locations just would not occur on events in this day and age (those clips would be from around '84 - '86). Crowds of that size and people standing in locations liek that would result in a stage being cancelled.
 
Nice thread you've got here!!! 👍 I'm a group B fanatic myself, and it was without a doubt one of the most spectacular forms of motorsport ever! There was the question what group B was. Well, if I may, I'll give you guys a (very) brief history.

The group B regulations were introduced in 1982 to lure more makes into rallying. The idea was that instead of building 400 cars (as was the case in the older group 4 class) a company only had to build 200 models, and 20 of them could be so called "evolution" models. One of the big misconceptions about group B is that Audi started out in rally for this reason, but this isn't true. They were allready running (and winning!) under group 4 regs, that was the reason the quattro had the engine in the front, a handicap it would have througout it's career. They have made a short-wheel-base version, the Sport quattro and they've made an evolution version of that car. The first true group B rally car was the Lancia Rally, also known as the Lancia 037. It was mid-engined and had RWD. This car was the last competitive RWD rally car, my idol, Walter Röhrl, drove this car in the 1983 championship.

During the four years that group B cars were used in the World Rally Championship the cars became (a lot) faster, the technology behind them became ever more complex and the rally team's budgets soared to unknown heights. This in turn attracted more and more spectators on the stages who wanted to see these monsters with their own eyes. Crowd control became a serious problem, especially in southern European countries like Italy or Portugal. In those countries it became a popular sport to see who was the last one to jump clear of the approaching monsters.

As one can imagine, all this was a recipe for disaster. The first major incidents began to occur in 1985. The championship leader, Ari Vatanen, had a high-speed crash in the rally of Argentina and was seriously injured, but Lancia driver Attilio Bettega was less fortunate in Corsica. He and his co-driver lost their lives.

The following season was even worse! A private driver, Joaquim Santos, lost control over his Ford RS200 and crashed straight into the crowd, killing three spectators. As a result, the works drivers and teams all pulled out, in protest to the dangerous conditions and the horrific crowd control. Audi even decided to pull out of the championship completely. In Corsica Lancia had another disaster. The incredibly talented Toivonen and his co-driver Cresto were killed in an accident. I still think to this day that Toivonen shouldn't had driven that day, seeing that he was sick at that moment, having Influenza.

As a result of these tragedies, the FIA ruled that group B would be banned from World rallying after the 1986 season, just 4 years after it's conception. It was the end of an era...

Maybe a few pics?

Lancia (037) Rally
main037-logo.jpg


Audi Sport quattro
reji2412_med.jpg


Audi Sport quattro E2 (AKA S1)
swaudiq.jpg


P.S. The movie about the Audi quattro at high speed, that's W. Röhrl at the wheel! :D
 
Ive also seen videos, many are rally vids, but there was a funny one when cars slide at a corner and crash and spin
 
I'm running out so not much time to comment but just wanted to say:
it's incredible that a game is so well done and so interesting that it can evoke a real life interest and passion over the topic/sport. That is one aspect of the Gran Turismo franchise that should be recognized by the big car leagues and even car manufacturers. I read comments about how playing this game made people want to watch a race, even semi drive testing a future car purchase! I'm not surprised that car manufacturers are more readily giving licensing to GT to use their cars.

lol I can't stop watching the Rohrl(?) clip. It's rediculous! The car is airborne half the time or 2 wheels AND it's raining, AND it's muddy as hell and he's flyin like god made that course just for him and that car.

All this really inspires me to play and play things that I didnt pay much attention to before such as the Rally races. It's my current favorite thing to do in GT. It's so damn hard too lol. Controlling these cars is so tricky on those conditions and controlling the turbo is driving me insane (when the turbo kicks in and the tires spin). It gives me so much more appreciation for the real life racing.
 
The next person who makes a post about Group B and fails to mention the Ford RS200 will feel the back of my hand.
 
Famine
The next person who makes a post about Group B and fails to mention the Ford RS200 will feel the back of my hand.
Click to expand...

Group B

+



​

Are you happy now, its even Stig Blomqvist's Pikes Peak RS200 as well (all 840bhp of it) along with a road version.

Regards

Scaff
 
Famine
The next person who makes a post about Group B and fails to mention the Ford RS200 will feel the back of my hand.
Click to expand...
I mentioned an RS200! :D But, okay, I'll give you a few pics.

Road version:
cl_rs200-6.jpg


Works rally version in Sweden '86. Grundel finished 3rd on the car's first outing. The best result the car ever had in World Rallying.:
86suede_grundel.jpg


An RS200 that was run by a fellow countryman of mine, Robert Droogmans:
86be_droogmans.jpg


The RS200 of Santos. It would crash a bit later, killing 3 spectators.:
86port_santos.jpg


The RS200 became a legend in Rallycross. Driven by M. Schanche it was very, very succesfull in the so-called Division 2.:
89_schanche.jpg


And finally, the Pikes Peak car S. Blomqvist drove a few years back, proving that a highly tuned, well driven RS200 still can hold its own today.
w23-6-04%20Stig%20e%20la%20RS200.jpg
 
Rohrl-fan
...but Lancia driver Attilio Bettega was less fortunate in Corsica. He and his co-driver lost their lives.
Click to expand...
Weird, then I have been given false information... I read from somewhere that the co-driver survived, even without any major injuries.

Lancia really had bad luck in Corsica, but those accidents also show that the cars back then were much more fragile than the WRCs today. The 037 of Bettega looked like it had been crushed with a tank, the S4 of Toivonen virtually exploded. I dare to say that if the cars had been as strong as they are now, these men would still be among us.

But it was a fine era of motorsports, even if very dangerous. :)
 
Greycap
Weird, then I have been given false information... I read from somewhere that the co-driver survived, even without any major injuries.

Lancia really had bad luck in Corsica, but those accidents also show that the cars back then were much more fragile than the WRCs today. The 037 of Bettega looked like it had been crushed with a tank, the S4 of Toivonen virtually exploded. I dare to say that if the cars had been as strong as they are now, these men would still be among us.

But it was a fine era of motorsports, even if very dangerous. :)
Click to expand...

Quite right about how fragile the cars were, Motors TV had a piece on it last night called Rally Evolved about the history of rallying. One piece of footage was taken from a helicopter of an RS200 getting loose on a gravel straight and clipping a tree, and the car just exploded into a fireball.

Quite shocking, but for all of the strength of modern WRC cars its still a dangerous sport. We should never forget the loss of Michael Park last year.

Regards

Scaff
 
wildbillk
lol I can't stop watching the Rohrl(?) clip. It's rediculous! The car is airborne half the time or 2 wheels AND it's raining, AND it's muddy as hell and he's flyin like god made that course just for him and that car.
Click to expand...
Now you know why I'm a fan of his! :D In my opinion, he's the best pro race/rally driver ever. The most incredible thing is Rohrl's driving style and his respect for his equipment. Even on gravel this guy drove like on a race track, still being one of the fastest guys around. He was voted "Rally driver of the millennium" in 2000 by his colleages, that's saying something, doesn't it?
 
You really can't beat seeing a rally live. I've mostly watched the WRC. You do have to use common sense about where to stand, although there are usually marshals in the most popular areas who keep an eye on things.

It's mind blowing to watch a car doing 120mph through a forest, and not even lift off the throttle as it dodges between stone farm buildings. On the other hand there have been many hours standing waiting for cars on a stage which was cancelled!

For spectators, it seems to vary from country to country with the Spanish being the worst for crowd control. Having said that, they have improved a lot in the last few years.

I'm a big F1 fan and also love touring cars, but I think rally drivers have inhuman levels of car control!

A couple of years ago we drove on a stage to get to the place we were staying. We were sliding a lot because of the patchy snow (in the mountains in France), with traction control and ABS cutting in. The next day the rally cars drove it as if there was no snow at all!
 
wildbillk
it's incredible that a game is so well done and so interesting that it can evoke a real life interest and passion over the topic/sport. That is one aspect of the Gran Turismo franchise that should be recognized by the big car leagues and even car manufacturers. I read comments about how playing this game made people want to watch a race, even semi drive testing a future car purchase! I'm not surprised that car manufacturers are more readily giving licensing to GT to use their cars.
Click to expand...

Amen to that. It's one of the main reasons that I switched from playing Project Gotham Racing to playing my neighbor's PS2 and GT. The realism and the in-depth work of the game can really bring out the best/worst of people... best, because anyone who loves this game rocks, worst because people go buy the cars, which cost thousands, and some people are married :sly:

But an excellent point. Just thought I'd mention that.
 

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