Rubber banding

[430_Riviera]

I think this is even apparent in rally mode. I golded the Loeb rally experience so got the Citroen WRC car, I thought I'd use it in the Intermediate GT rally event and was around 7 seconds ahead of the pack cummulative going into the final stage. Having had a flawless run through the final stage, I was dismayed to see that I had a silver trophy flash up on screen. A standard Impreza road car had managed to be 9 seconds faster over the short stage whilst the other cars (including a 205 t16) were 13 seconds behind. Pain in the ass.

Also I heavily doubt the slipstream event in carts is realistic. I can be halfway back from 1st down a long straight and suddenly my cart will pick up and bounce off the rev limiter like someone has doubled the horsepower.

If you watch fairly closely matched cars in real life (say WTCC for example) then you will see that compared to nascar or IRL where drafting is enormously important, the difference it offers in lower speed racing is dramatically less. Even in F1 where the draft is actually a hindrance as it decreases downforce and causes rampant understeer in most cars, yet offers little performance increase on a straight.

 

[nicefrog]

I was doing a race around nurburgring in which the first AI car completed consistently in 8:30 if you finished behind the leader, if you finished first the AI cars were just behind in a time of 7:30 :S, that was the limited of my car and driving but I suspect not the limit of the rubber band

 

[snowgt]

I was on Trial Mountain in a Fairlady Z (Z34). I was having a bit of fun because I was a few seconds ahead, and pulled a huge slide going into the tunnel, but lost it at the last second and spun out. I regained myself and got hit rejoining, when I was well off the racing line, which I thought was odd. When I got it back together, I crossed the next split 11 seconds behind an RX-7. I was able to make all that back by the start finish line. I lost 15 seconds and regained it in half a lap. That means I should win by quite a margin right? No. The next lap, the RX-7 was about 8 seconds faster on that lap alone.

A bit disappointed to see rubber banding this hefty in GT5. This was a Beginner Hall event, so I hope it scales back at the higher levels. Anyone else experiencing this?

You said this happened in a Beginners' Race? That means you were much quicker to begin with, otherwise you wouldn't have had a couple seconds lead when you spun, because the races are so short.

Then you spun, and the RX-7 hit you while you tried to recover. Well, the RX-7 may have lost a bit of time as well due to that incident, don't you think? Then it's no wonder it went faster by 8 seconds in the following lap.

I have not witnessed any rubber band effect so far, and I believe I recognize it when I see it.

 

[nicefrog]

The rubber banding is there and it's real, it's very notable on some of the higher level races that are hard to win

 

[Ubiquitous]

I absolutely hate rubber band AI.

I haven't noticed any specific rubber banding, but I have noticed odd performance of certain cars.

I've been able to out accelerate certain vehicles with cars that just shouldn't be able to do so. Come to think of it, I've also noticed a possible occurrence of rubber band AI when I was driving a 787B against the Zonda Race Car and Ford GT LM, they were able to keep up with me throughout a five lap race despite the 787B clearly being a level beyond them in all areas of performance.

Very disappointing.

 

[TeggD]

Level 20 not noticed anything yet. My B-spec is 10.

I have lapped AI no problem. Randomly some cars can speed up abit if they push hard but on longer races you can see they even make mistakes or just do one or two faster laps. Nothing unusual from my experience.

 

[LaBounti]

So no one here has used b-spec then. The AI changes it pace. It's a long winded difference of opinion on the AI but I'm happy with it after many hours.

 

[Hoodie1878]

On longer races surely the AI would get worse as their tyres get worse?

 

[RF951]

I interpret the term 'rubber banding' to mean the AI adjusts its' speed to keep you competitive. To that end GT5 has as much or more than any game I've played.

I also have spun out while leading a race and after re-joining finding myself in the thick of the fight again.

Example: racing at Nurburgring F I was in the Zonda R. After 1-1/2 laps I had a 3 second lead over a Maclaren whosits whatsits that was very close in speed. I over cooked a corner and spun into the grass losing 8-10 seconds. I caught the Mclaren in two corners. Then he rode my butt to the finish. I think this was in one of the extreme series.

They took out so many good things that were in GT4 and put in things here that I just don't understand.

 

[Duke]

no sir the game is flawed none of this what if rubbish its a disgrace we owe these PD scandals nothing we just gave them £40 for a game that i wouldnt wipe my *** with

Wow, overemote much? I hate rubberbanding as well, but seriously, you need to get over your issues here.

 

[realwerewolf]

Some of you are clearly making things up or grossly exaggerating, I have played many racing games over the years, I have yet to see rubber banding in Gt5. Also, as AI gets used to a track its not unrealistic for them to get better as the race goes on as long as its not exaggerated. i simply do not see or ever had this in Gt5.

 

[Amused2Death66]

There is rubber banding in GT5.... period.....

If you doubt this, do the following:

Choose a race and try your hardest - not the race finish times of the AI.

Re-do the race and drive real slow even stop for a few seconds when you are back of the grid. Now have a look at the AI race times.... They will have slowed down to allow you to catch up.

Rubber banding was removed from GT4 and some bright spark decided to put it back for GT5.

Rubber banding is in Forza to, but only on beginner and medium difficulty. Playing hard on Forza removes it completely

 

[Zoki]

There is rubber banding in GT5.... period.....

If you doubt this, do the following:

Choose a race and try your hardest - not the race finish times of the AI.

Re-do the race and drive real slow even stop for a few seconds when you are back of the grid. Now have a look at the AI race times.... They will have slowed down to allow you to catch up.

Rubber banding was removed from GT4 and some bright spark decided to put it back for GT5.

Rubber banding is in Forza to, but only on beginner and medium difficulty. Playing hard on Forza removes it completely

But look at Spec B, look at you AIs times when he is 5/6th place and when he is 1st. The AI drives slower in first because of the hot/cold racing mentality they have, its goes cold when their out front.

 

[Killa Aaron]

Yeah there is rubber banding, it's in the Jeff Gordon NASCAR challenge expert event on Daytona the target car will just zip off out of nowhere.

 

[Amused2Death66]

But look at Spec B, look at you AIs times when he is 5/6th place and when he is 1st. The AI drives slower in first because of the hot/cold racing mentality they have, its goes cold when their out front.

But there are 11 AI racers. In my example above they should be busy competing amongst themselves not collectively slow down because I am behind! We are not talking about the leader lacking pace, but all of them. They will slow down and speed up to match you but not to match each other. And by a lot. This is indeed rubber banding.

 

[realwerewolf]

But there are 11 AI racers. In my example above they should be busy competing amongst themselves not collectively slow down because I am behind! We are not talking about the leader lacking pace, but all of them. They will slow down and speed up to match you but not to match each other. And by a lot. This is indeed rubber banding.

Saying it doesnt make it so, i have yet to see any, and yes I know what rubber banding is. The only time the Ai catches up is when i am making mistakes and losing seconds.

 

[Mysterious R]

I like to think that the AI is now actually capable of getting maximum potential or near enough and consider that they have the same stress/fatigue system as the B-Spec driver.

I have seen cars push harder getting right up on me and then seen them spin without help in a pack and thought that's just like when your B-Spec driver gets pushed too hard. Honestly putting in consistent fast laps i never feel the AI is much competition yet...👍

 

[ORDER_N_CHAOS]

Ah, the news just keeps getting better and better about this game.... *sigh* The more I hear, the more I'm waiting for a $29.99 or lower price tag. It helps to be broke.

For those who say, "if you don't like it, use B-Spec" well ya know, I thought those who buy any Gran Turismo game buy them because they actually want to drive their cars and not watch some computer AI all the time. PD doesn't get AI programming like other companies. I had hoped they improved it, but it appears if any improvements happened since GT4, they are very minimal.

On the flipside, it would make sense to ease gamers through the early levels of GT Life just because of all the beginners that will come to this game. But a lot have already mentioned that it does not change with upper level events. Unfortunately, blind AI that do not acknowledge the presence of your car, and especially a rubber band effect, do not equate to "The Real Driving Simulator".

 

[realwerewolf]

Ah, the news just keeps getting better and better about this game.... *sigh* The more I hear, the more I'm waiting for a $29.99 or lower price tag. It helps to be broke.

For those who say, "if you don't like it, use B-Spec" well ya know, I thought those who buy any Gran Turismo game buy them because they actually want to drive their cars and not watch some computer AI all the time. PD doesn't get AI programming like other companies. I had hoped they improved it, but it appears if any improvements happened since GT4, they are very minimal.

On the flipside, it would make sense to ease gamers through the early levels of GT Life just because of all the beginners that will come to this game. But a lot have already mentioned that it does not change with upper level events. Unfortunately, blind AI that do not acknowledge the presence of your car, and especially a rubber band effect, do not equate to "The Real Driving Simulator".

LMAO, so one guy says there is rubber banding ona forum, you believe him and wont buy the game? game is not perfect, but it is easily worth 60 bucks, and is the most sophisticated, real driving experience on console. There is NO rubber banding.

 

[Amused2Death66]

Ah, the news just keeps getting better and better about this game.... *sigh* The more I hear, the more I'm waiting for a $29.99 or lower price tag. It helps to be broke.

For those who say, "if you don't like it, use B-Spec" well ya know, I thought those who buy any Gran Turismo game buy them because they actually want to drive their cars and not watch some computer AI all the time. PD doesn't get AI programming like other companies. I had hoped they improved it, but it appears if any improvements happened since GT4, they are very minimal.

On the flipside, it would make sense to ease gamers through the early levels of GT Life just because of all the beginners that will come to this game. But a lot have already mentioned that it does not change with upper level events. Unfortunately, blind AI that do not acknowledge the presence of your car, and especially a rubber band effect, do not equate to "The Real Driving Simulator".

Very true I'm with you 99.9%. Whilst I still love this game more and more disappointments come to light.

The 0.01 % that I'm not with you on is that I have to have my GT fix, albeit a smaller one than I had hoped so waiting for the price drop simply wasn't an option.

 

[Killa Aaron]

LMAO, so one guy says there is rubber banding ona forum, you believe him and wont buy the game? game is not perfect, but it is easily worth 60 bucks, and is the most sophisticated, real driving experience on console. There is NO rubber banding.

Yes there is you just have not seen it yet, i thought the OP was wrong but i have witnessed it, it's not very often and it not game ruining but it does happen.

 

[slicecom]

The AI is just as bad as it was in all the other Gran Turismo games, and yes, there is blatant and extreme rubber banding. Anyone who says otherwise is either a fanboy in denial, or blind. Luckily, I don't play the Gran Turismo series for the level of AI skill, I play it for the ability to drive cars virtually with realistic physics.

Has anyone noticed if there's GT5P style rubber banding for online? Where they give a hp boost to the car that falls behind and decrease grip levels for the car infront? I'm trying to finish the single player before I go online.

 

[Amused2Death66]

LMAO, so one guy says there is rubber banding ona forum, you believe him and wont buy the game? game is not perfect, but it is easily worth 60 bucks, and is the most sophisticated, real driving experience on console. There is NO rubber banding.

There is no rubber bandling lol - there definitely is. So when I race well I struggle to keep in the pack and yet when I crash I magically catch up with all the AI 15 seconds later.

..... oh wait they are all slowing down because they are "cooling down" seems to be the defence, as they are not under threat from me. Hang on aren't they supposed to be racing each other too - so they all just happen to slow down for one guy at the back.

Yeah right lol - there is rubber banding.

 

[Tornado]

LMAO, so one guy says there is rubber banding ona forum, you believe him and wont buy the game? game is not perfect, but it is easily worth 60 bucks, and is the most sophisticated, real driving experience on console. There is NO rubber banding.

Yeah, there is. It isn't as obnoxious as it was in GTPSP, but there are times when it is very obvious nonetheless.

 

[realwerewolf]

There is no rubber bandling lol - there definitely is. So when I race well I struggle to keep in the pack and yet when I crash I magically catch up with all the AI 15 seconds later.

..... oh wait they are all slowing down because they are "cooling down" seems to be the defence, as they are not under threat from me. Hang on aren't they supposed to be racing each other too - so they all just happen to slow down for one guy at the back.

Yeah right lol - there is rubber banding.

How come this does not happen to me? maybe your not as good as you think and your losing seconds by not properly cornering? It is also realistic to get better the more you drive a track, it happens to me, maybe the Ai also does the same. Again, saying it on a forum when it obvious is not happening to everyone doesn't make it so. Not once has this catch up immediately ever happened to me in any race.

 

[Amused2Death66]

How come this does not happen to me? maybe your not as good as you think and your losing seconds by not properly cornering? It is also realistic to get better the more you drive a track, it happens to me, maybe the Ai also does the same. Again, saying it on a forum when it obvious is not happening to everyone doesn't make it so. Not once has this catch up immediately ever happened to me in any race.

No I'm not good lol and never said I was. I'm actually pretty crap rofl. This is probably why I notice the rubber banding and you don't!

When I do naff lap times the AI slow down and do naff laptimes. When I do the occasional reasonable lap they speed up and do a likewise reasonable lap. When I crash they kindly slow down and wait for me (you call this them cooling down cause I'm not in front - aren't they supposed to be racing each other).

In the 30 years that I have been playing racing games (yes I'm that old) this is most definitely rubber banding. It was evident in GT1, GT2 and GT3. It was taken out of GT4 and prologue but now its back again.

 

[Tornado]

How come this does not happen to me?

Because you probably haven't noticed it, probably because of your driving style. If I was playing Mario Kart and intentionally spent the entire race in second place or just barely in the lead, I wouldn't notice the rubber banding in that game either. But it would still be there.

maybe your not as good as you think and your losing seconds by not properly cornering?

That would be a possible explanation if the AI as a collective did not slow down if you fall too far behind.

It is also realistic to get better the more you drive a track, it happens to me, maybe the Ai also does the same.

Not supported by anything I've seen in the game. The AI in this game doesn't repeat the same "screw up the same sections of the track every time in every lap" stupidity that it did in GT4, but it doesn't get particularly faster by itself if left to its own devices and it still churns out basically the same times lap after lap.

Again, saying it on a forum when it obvious is not happening to everyone doesn't make it so.

This is the same thing people were saying about GTPSP when it was discovered how the AI worked in that.

Not once has this catch up immediately ever happened to me in any race.

It took me years to come to the conclusion that there was rubber banding in GT2. It was always there, but I hadn't gotten in a position that I was able to notice it.

 

[Amused2Death66]

Exactly Tornado - the AI do indeed COLLECTIVELY slow down when you are behind. If this wasn't rubber banding they would be competing just as hard against each other.

Rubber banding is after all when AI slow down or speed up to match the player and this is what happens.

To say that they are slowing down because you are not posing a threat is ludicrous. So in a real race in the real world do ALL the other drivers all slow down because one guy is at the back..... NO.

A lead guy in a real race will indeed cool off if he has built a few seconds lead and take less risks but not the entire pack!

 

[Bigbazz]

Rubber banding happens in real life.

"We need to you catch up to xxx"

"You have a lead, slow down and save fuel and your tyres"


To a certain extent .

 

[plastik2k10]

The AI is much like other racing games, in that it gets faster or slower depending on where you are and how you are driving. If you stay near the back of the field, the top cars will stay bunched together and will be fairly slow. If you get up to second, the guy in first will start matching your pace, and soon the pair of you are miles ahead of everyone else.

It doesn't happen in all races so obviously, and I suppose they and other game developers do this to try and keep the difficulty at an acceptable level, and not too easy or hard. In F1 2010 this effect is even more noticeable; the guy behind will always stay fairly close behind you, no matter what car he's in or how good your pace is, so you can effectively 'drag' a Lotus into a points position if you come out of the pits in front of him.

Racing AI has always been a nightmare for developers to get right; too realistic and the racing can become boring and possibly too hard, but too 'manipulated' and the racing seems too fake. I'm reasonably happy with GT5's AI, and I accept that these things can never be perfect.