Rubberband AI: pro or con?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Maxitsu
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Rubberband AI: pro or con?

  • Pro

    Votes: 18 10.8%

  • Con

    Votes: 138 82.6%

  • Don't know

    Votes: 11 6.6%
  • Total voters
    167
Maxitsu

Maxitsu

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Maxitsu
Rubberband AI: pro or con?


I hate it, but i am wondering how do you think about Rubberband AI in Gran Turismo.


I personnaly hate it. You really notice it if you car is the same compared to the AI. but it really messes up my game. When you driving a strong race at 1st place and you make 1 mistake in the last lap you lose the race, becaus you can't drive away. when you drive bad and make alot of mistakes you still catch-up. a bit unfair.

But the baddest thing is when you do a longer race whit real race strategy, your strategy becomes useless. When doing a early pitstop you can sometimes catch-up the gap in a few laps. or when you take a late pitstop. the gap is very big and you can loose alot of time. so a long race or pitstop strategy is usseless. you only have too do a last pitstop before your opponent does. to win a race.:nervous:
 
Rubberbanding is, in my opinion, never a good thing. An AI difficulty level that scales with the level of events you're in, that's a good thing, but actually rubberbanding, not so much.
 
Luminis
Rubberbanding is, in my opinion, never a good thing. An AI difficulty level that scales with the level of events you're in, that's a good thing, but actually rubberbanding, not so much.
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Summed up nicely.
 
I have yet to see anything that I would consider rubber banding unless you are referring to cars getting in your slip stream and gaining on you which of course is easily avoided by driving a different line.

I have also noticed that the lap times of the AI seem to be the same until they get far out in front. Then like Bob and like many human drivers they will slow up a bit and drive carefully to maintain the lead. Speeding up when the lead is threatened. That is more realistic than having them drive flat out the whole time actually.
 
I think I just witnessed this explicitly for the first time earlier in Dream Car Championship.

Con 👎
 
I am with HBR, I don't think I've seen this much at all. If I have a fast car I'll leave them in my dust pretty easily, and if its even I can usually gap them. I noticed in GVS 300 with my first car that I pulled out a lead and a AI caught me when my tires are worn, and it was driving a NSX-R(I am in a mildly tuned 370Z), I am using Sport Hard tire and on the circumstances(if he was stuck behind another car for a while) it was entirely believable that he could make up that gap. I redid the race with a faster car and I had no trouble winning by some margin. Only thing thats really bad is NASCAR in the extreme event on Daytona as you can't really pull away from them. But that is fairly true to life(aside from them try to PIT you all the time, maybe thats true to life too...)

Worse case of rubberbanding was in NFS:U I hated that game sooo much because of the fact that AI can make up a 10 sec gap in 3 corner....
 
RacingManiac
I am with HBR, I don't think I've seen this much at all. If I have a fast car I'll leave them in my dust pretty easily, and if its even I can usually gap them. I noticed in GVS 300 with my first car that I pulled out a lead and a AI caught me when my tires are worn, and it was driving a NSX-R(I am in a mildly tuned 370Z), I am using Sport Hard tire and on the circumstances(if he was stuck behind another car for a while) it was entirely believable that he could make up that gap. I redid the race with a faster car and I had no trouble winning by some margin. Only thing thats really bad is NASCAR in the extreme event on Daytona as you can't really pull away from them. But that is fairly true to life(aside from them try to PIT you all the time, maybe thats true to life too...)

Worse case of rubberbanding was in NFS:U I hated that game sooo much because of the fact that AI can make up a 10 sec gap in 3 corner....
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Well you should play NFS:HP. The game got traded because of the rubberbanding on one race pushed me over the edge.
 
Rubber-banding should be band (banned). What use is it at all?
 
Rubber-banding is a realism killer. If you notice that it's happening, it completely ruins any sense of immersion that a game might've had.

It's a cheap way of making a game more challenging, rather than trying to implement more complex and effective ways of making the game challenging. In GT for instance, I think rubber-banding is in place partly to even out the playing field due to the fact that you can unfairly use the AI cars to bounce through corners at high speed. The AI, which is supposed to drive in a believable manner, can't resort to the same tactics thus they get rubber-banding so they can give even the sleaziest of drivers a run for their money.

However if realistic mechanical damage were implemented, the player would no longer be able to bounce off AI cars, and thus the AI would no longer need rubber banding to provide a reasonable challenge to all players.

That said, I personally haven't noticed rubber-banding in GT5. I haven't played online yet, so I don't know if it's implemented there. But there was definitely some rubber-banding in GT4.
 
It´s a contra for me but GT5 is not made for us ?? 50.000 ?? Hardcore sim fans... I can remember how I played GT4 in the times I never played sims... I had all driving aids on, hitting other cars in the corner to pass them and all the other stuff, most usual gamers do...

If GT5 would be an hardcoresim, It would sell not that much as now...

I think GT5P was too hard for most of the gamers because we got PP points (wich I liked very much and miss them so much in GT5)...

So rubberband is a great thing for usual gamer... I was also happy about it in the starting times of GT4... It would be much frustrating (for casual gamers) if you make an mistake after 20 laps and loose the event...

I think PD has tried to find the middle way to satisfy everybody...
 
IMO Rubberband is horrible, NFS series is notorious for this AI.

However for GT, I never noticed rubberband AI, the only time I thought they might have it was during the FGT series, but then again on the same series at Monaco, I was lapping the AI when that same AI was right on my back for the first 2 races, so I don't think there is rubberbanding.

You have to remember esp on tracks with long straights, the pack behind you draft each other, while you have to break your own air, so the they shave seconds off their lap times where the leader (you) will not.
 
Rubber banding is the first evil of racing games.
 
Actually it doesn't bother me that much. GT5 just needs way more races like the historic racing car cup / formula gt cup, which were kind of a nice challenge.
 
Never seen rubber banding in GT5. I think most here are mistaking slipstreaming for rubberbanding, slipstreaming is maybe a bit to effective in GT5.

In fact anyone claiming there is rubberbanding go race with a 400hp car vs 200hp cars over 10 laps or so. When you've won by over 30 seconds go and check the replay with live timing on. I'll garantee the AI's lap times will be realistic and not torn out of proportion because you had such a strong lead.
 
I must say, I don't think I have noticed any obvious rubber banding in the game thus far.
 
junpeix555
You have to remember esp on tracks with long straights, the pack behind you draft each other, while you have to break your own air, so the they shave seconds off their lap times where the leader (you) will not.
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^That!

This is exactly that I think some people might misinterpret as rubberband. Drafting plays a huge role in GT and has always played. Actually back in the days of GT1 was when I learned about drafting. I realised it today when I did the NASCAR event. After I won the first four races, on Daytona I seem to have used a wrong setup and did not use the draft well. Consequently, one after the other overtook me and they all drove away. End of story was me being behind with like 30 seconds. If there would have been rubberband I would have had a possibility to catch up, but there wasn't.

P.S.: Me no likey rubberband
 
I think rubber banding is the easy out solution to keeping a race exciting... while it's a good way to ensure the heat is always on, it also is a frustrating way when it becomes obvios.

Much better is actually close races where cars are limited in performance and a qualifying lap ensures you know what your competition is like and you get to be in a real race rather than a challenge of blowing by 12 rolling roadblocks only to race the 2 or 3 front guys.
 
I think what's happening is the same thing that happens in B-Spec. The AI will push harder on the last lap if they are behind but when they are ahead they tend to become overly cautious.

Am I wrong?
 
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MowTin
I think what's happening is the same thing that happens in B-Spec. The AI will push harder on the last lap if they are behind but when they are ahead they tend to become overly cautious.

Am I wrong?
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Why does no one else think its this? When I play, I don't notice any rubber banding at all. Its only at the last lap, regardless of where I am, is when all the racers start to give it an extra push, hitting corners more tightly and accelerating more often.
 
junpeix555
You have to remember esp on tracks with long straights, the pack behind you draft each other, while you have to break your own air, so the they shave seconds off their lap times where the leader (you) will not.
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Yes but keep in mind their "drafting pack" has it's own leader as well that's breaking it's own air. What I'm saying is, if they're really drafting each other perfectly like birds do on their big trips, they could maybe win 1 second after the whole straight, but I think that's impossible because instead of helping each other to draft, they more or less fight for the second place (draftpack leader if you will).
 
Mygroth
Yes but keep in mind their "drafting pack" has it's own leader as well that's breaking it's own air. What I'm saying is, if they're really drafting each other perfectly like birds do on their big trips, they could maybe win 1 second after the whole straight, but I think that's impossible because instead of helping each other to draft, they more or less fight for the second place (draftpack leader if you will).
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Bump drafting. Makes the first guy go faster
 
Luminis
Rubberbanding is, in my opinion, never a good thing. An AI difficulty level that scales with the level of events you're in, that's a good thing, but actually rubberbanding, not so much.
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I have to completely agree.

Different people have different skill levels, so it's not so unrealistic for the same to go for AI drivers, so scaling AI skill levels is fine. Magically making cars faster or slower based on where you are in relation to them (rubberbanding) feels horribly fake..., mainly because it is horribly fake. I don't like stuff that's horribly fake.
 
Like several of the other posters, I haven't noticed rubberbanding in GT5 at all. But I have to reiterate this:

iinsom00
Bump drafting. Makes the first guy go faster
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This is the only way I can consistently win with NASCAR cars on the ovals. In fact, it's one of the oldest tricks in the NASCAR driver's arsenal, and what teammates use when they're one behind the other.
 
Rubberbanding is for arcade racers. It has no place in GT5. I hate experiencing it.
 
iinsom00
Bump drafting. Makes the first guy go faster
Click to expand...
I believe it is not just bump drafting. I understand that two cars travelling very close together go faster than a single car because the speed of the lead car is effected not only by drag at the front but the flow of air at the rear.

I have seen no rubber banding in GT5. A lot of time people mistake certain AI habits as being rubber banding when it is not. The AI has a fairly fixed line and on its own changes little, the AI rarely overtakes and in my observation rarely makes mistakes (enduros aside when the tyres get worn).

Rubberbanding is a definite con from myself. To be fair to NFS, it has always had rubberbanding and never tried to hide that fact, it can be good and bad in an arcade racer as it works both ways, but then NFS is not a circuit racer.

While we are talking about the AI; has anyone tried to kill the boredom of endurance race by nudging the AI cars into false pit stops as we used to in GT4 ? I tried at Tsukba and failed miserably but then I only had a Mazda Roadster to use.
 
I haven't noticed it either.

Actually, I've noticed the lack of it. I get far out in front and stay there. They don't catch up. That satisfies my "no rubberbanding" criteria.
 
I run races with a competitive car, not a million hp car or a racecar in a street car event.
I have seen AI consistently gain x seconds a lap on me.
I have consistently gained x seconds a lap on AI.
I have seen a fast car work through the field, get to the lead, then run away.
I have seen a fast car work through the field, get to 2nd place and then start to run me down.
I have consistently gained time at each sector on the Nurb-ring over the AI.
I have wiped out, and have been unable to catch up with the leaders.
I have not seen the field magically start laping faster or slower in a single race.

I'm not certain how any of that hints at rubberbanding.
 
Rubberbands are suppose to keep things together son.
 
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