Rubberband AI: pro or con?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Maxitsu
  • 83 comments
  • 7,165 views

Rubberband AI: pro or con?

  • Pro

    Votes: 18 10.8%

  • Con

    Votes: 138 82.6%

  • Don't know

    Votes: 11 6.6%
  • Total voters
    167
HBR-Roadhog
There is no rubber banding. People are mistaking a faster car which starts in the back as a rubber band effect when in reality it is just that the AI has a hard time working it's way up through the slower cars.

This combined with drafting takes care of any perceived rubber band effect. The AI cars do not go faster than the car goes in fact they never even wind it out and always drive corners slower than they could.

I have yet to see any AI car gain on me even a little unless it was being pushed by another AI car, Like the Nascars for example. Or a faster car was trapped behind a slower car for a while like for example the Toyota 7 on Deep Forest. Or I did not drive as fast a lap myself allowing the AI to close up on me.

When the fastest AI car is running second and there is no other AI car with it yet it is to far to get in my slip stream I have never in hundreds of races saw the AI gain even an inch that was not my fault.

Rubber band effect. In the mind of the player not in the game.
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Have you read my post (#43)? Just take 10 minutes of your time and do what I described.
- start the Super GT event in B-Spec with a fast race car
- watch the lap times of the whole pack get much better as your bot gets away
- send your bot to the pit as many times as necessary to get him to the end of the pack
- watch the lap times of the whole pack get about 13 seconds(!) slower
- then tell me again that there is no rubberbanding in GT5 :-)
 
HuskyGT
Finally, someone that noticed it. I didn´t want to believe it, but it´s true. GT5 has rubberband effect...
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No. It does not. The AI simply raises it's driving pace at a certain point through the race when it's behind and relaxes when it's on top for a while without opposition.
When they raise their pace they don't go artificially faster, like in a rubberband effect, but they take more risks driving more aggressively (with an higher chance of errors). It's quite noticeable by watching replays (you can see the late braking, slight drifting and that they push fully on the gas more often), and it's a quite realistic behavior.

The fact that the AI behind you tries to catch up when you're ahead (oh my! how unrealistic rite?!) doesn't mean that there's rubberbanding.
 
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There is rubberbanding in this game.

If you guys take the time to drive the same car as th AI and watch the replies.

You will notice that sometimes as if the car has nitrous oxide....the car starts to gain a lot more speed then you car ever would. Its very noticeable sometimes.
 
So when there behind they go faster, when there infront they go slower.
That sounds like rubberbanding.
 
Im not sure, i think id prefer runbber banding so you actually have racing as opposed to starting a race 40 seconds behind the leader and mere time trialling whilst trying to dodge dumb objects (ai drivers) as they do their best to impede your time.

There seems to be very little racing in GT other than racing the clock:(
 
Perfect example of this is Formula GT series. When you are trying to work your way through the field, the AI will run 1:17s or :18s at Fuji. However, as soon as you make the pass they will speed up to :16's. Fall behind, and they settle back in to :17s.

This is also not the result of drafting. I was running back-to-back-to-back :15 flats, with some :14.9's in there and the AI was a good distance behind, but almost maintaining pace. They were only losing about 0.5s/lap on me, which means they were a solid 1.5s faster when I was pulling away. This is particularly true with the 2nd and 3rd place cars. What might be happening is that the behind-the-scenes AI race director is pounding on the "Pace Up" command for the AI drivers if it feels they are close enough to maybe catch up or in 2nd place.
 
There is no rubberband AI in GT5, maybe you just need to get better at the game. Haha. Also, where is the option in the poll that should say "Pointless Thread"?
 
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Perfect example of this is Formula GT series. When you are trying to work your way through the field, the AI will run 1:17s or :18s at Fuji. However, as soon as you make the pass they will speed up to :16's. Fall behind, and they settle back in to :17s.
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Because they arent trying to accomplish anything other than to beat you. They are not actively racing each other, with the exception of the odd moment) if they were they would be drafting each other down the straights and dragging themselves along faster and faster.. except they dont and when I draft, i draft hugely fast and when they draft each other they drive like they are in a set convoy.
 
I'm sure nearly all of you have noticed that once you take the lead in a race, you never get overtaken. Even if it was a struggle getting there, as soon as you hit first you're suddenly way out ahead and barely a soul approaches.

Also with some of the events, it seems the group at the front are constantly a set distance ahead, and only once you pass the group behind them will they slow enough to allow you to tackle the next lot.
 
Spagetti69
So when there behind they go faster, when there infront they go slower.
That sounds like rubberbanding.
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Nope. Rubberbanding is when cars get unnatural speed/acceleration in order to overtake the first, not when the a quite advanced (at least in this) AI raises it's pace dinamycally like a real driver would do to try and catch up to the leader.

You will NEVER see a car above it's top attainable speed in GT5 (unless it's drafting). You see it in games that feature rubberbanding.
 
Abriael
Nope. Rubberbanding is when cars get unnatural speed/acceleration in order to overtake the first, not when the a quite advanced (at least in this) AI raises it's pace dinamycally like a real driver would do to try and catch up to the leader.

You will NEVER see a car above it's top attainable speed in GT5 (unless it's drafting). You see it in games that feature rubberbanding.
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Eh, there are definitely multiple views on the subject, it's not a strict definition. Many games use rubber-banding that keeps within the speed restrictions, it's purpose is purely to keep the action around the player as much as possible, which is why in theory it's a good idea. Breaking the rules is just an example of rubber-banding gone wrong.
 
In the stock gallardo event I hit first place. The guy behind me hit a turbo boost and achieved speeds that I couldn't do.
I was out in front enough so that a draft wouldn't be possible.
I had to resort to GT dirty trick#426 the famous blocking manovoure.
 
No sir I don't like it.

What is really weird is the reverse rubber-band, where the lead AI driver simply gives up once you finally get past him. I just wish the AI fools used the same cars as listed in the Typical Opponents list and ran consistent times... more like the Seasonal Challenges. This way I could dial in the correct HP for my skill level. Due to the rubberbanding I either smoke them all or have to take a car so underpowered I get my doors blow off on the straights even while drafting. Why can't the AI drive at a reasonable, predictable pace? Also qualifying would help determine what level tune is really required for each race in A-Spec.
 
Also do you tune for the brakeaway guy or the pack?
There's two different races going on here.
 
Abriael
The fact that the AI behind you tries to catch up when you're ahead (oh my! how unrealistic rite?!) doesn't mean that there's rubberbanding.
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Let's imagine the following scenario: Vettel is leading in a F1 race. All other drivers are driving at their limits to catch up to him. Then a tyre damage forces him to pit and he ends up at the end of the pack. Suddenly ALL OTHER drivers relax and drive much slower than before. Very realistic...

That's exactly what happens in GT5 races. The AI focuses only at the player or the player-controlled bot. That's not realistic, that's rubberbanding.
 
sparrow_ger
Have you read my post (#43)? Just take 10 minutes of your time and do what I described.
- start the Super GT event in B-Spec with a fast race car
- watch the lap times of the whole pack get much better as your bot gets away
- send your bot to the pit as many times as necessary to get him to the end of the pack
- watch the lap times of the whole pack get about 13 seconds(!) slower
- then tell me again that there is no rubberbanding in GT5 :-)
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There is no rubberbanding in GT5. Happy :)
 
I honestly haven't noticed rubberbanding AI in GT5. When I'm driving A-Spec, I almost always consider the game to be me against the course. And if I screw up, then the AI gets the better of me. In B-Spec, I haven't seen any indication of rubberbanding at all. The competition is pretty consistent the whole race. What DOES seem to happen in races where my Bob is in a car that's around the same level as the AI is that Bob slacks off if I don't keep on top of him. So the AI can catch up and/or pass him. But it's not due to any rubberbanding, it's completely Bob's fault. Bob is a slacker.
 
PD has lost its way with this game to some degree. When I first noticed this I remember thinking that on top of an unfinished game, filler cars just to say you have 1000 car etc, cheesy lame menus, No imagination in the presentation of the oil change, car wash, no garage for your cars, horrible shadows etc they now destroyed the racing experience with cheap tactics like rubberbanding, also making your Bob go slower to artificially make the race harder so you have to stick around on endurance races etc.

The more I play this game the more disappointed I am with PD. GT4 was by far a better presented and purer package. Rubberbanding pushed me over the edge. I hope they remove it in an update.
 
There's no "Indifferent" option. Its not that I "Don't know", its that I "Don't care".

A certain amount of rubber band AI is fine IMO. I know in online racing sims if I'm miles ahead of everyone I'll start taking it easy and if further back with nothing to lose, I'll go flat out to catch up. Yeah of course its not completely realistic because the entire field slows down or speeds up to keep pace with you, but really it doesn't phase me. Good competitive AI is damn near impossible to implement in a game, and its no fun blasting miles ahead or being miles behind against AI which is mismatched to your own skill.

In an online game I dont mind being far behind the front guys who are way faster or far ahead of the noobs who can't stay on the track. When it comes to singleplayer, its no where near as interesting unless the AI is actually competitive with your own pace, which will vary through the course of a race (personally I go all out in the first few laps, then settle into a groove and slow down a bit, then depending on the car/track combo over time I might start to get faster again as I perfect my racing line and braking points). I like the idea of the AI being competitive throughout so I actually have something to race against.

That said, I dont really consider it either "pro" or a "con", hence why I'd like to see an "indifferent" option :p
 
I dont think there is a Rubber Band affect. When we drive the car we're scrubbing the tyres to such an extent that they are wearing quickly loosing grip by the time the last 2 laps come about. The AI Cars always seem to get around corner's without scrubbing their tyres or crashing or mowing the grass as if they just bought a Combine Harvester!:dopey:

Rubber band affect?? I think not. How about racing with the AI at their pace without flooring it all the time and when the last two laps come about then try to get away from or keep up with the AI.👍
 

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