Saturn Offers Accord/Camry/Aura Three-Way Test: New Info, Video

[Tornado]

My first thought after reading this was "people go into Saturn dealers?" And after some inflection, the thought is still baffling.

The mere thought of a GM or Ford product being better than a comparable Honda or Toyota is laughable, possibly excepting the Aura.

I would say the Cobalt is better than the Corolla (and the tC). And the Pontiac Vibe is definitely the better between it and the Matrix. The XLR is also certainly better than the SC430.
Then we have trucks.

 

[TopHat]

....And Large V8 RWD sedans. .... THAT ARE CHEAPER THAN LEXUS, and Infiniti, and BMW, and stuff. Happy?

 

[Tornado]

I see no large RWD sedans sold in America that beat the similarly priced Lexii that are also large and RWD. Maybe the Lincoln LS, but they don't sell that anymore.

 

[TopHat]

Are you happy now? Its been fixed.

 

[Azuremen]

My first thought after reading this was "people go into Saturn dealers?" And after some inflection, the thought is still baffling.

I would say the Cobalt is better than the Corolla (and the tC). And the Pontiac Vibe is definitely the better between it and the Matrix. The XLR is also certainly better than the SC430.
Then we have trucks.

See, I feel the other way around... The Cobalt just feels cheap to me, and looks it too. The Vibe is a Matrix more or less, and I ride in one 3 days a week to work... feels alot like my Corolla. I see no disparity between it and the Matrix, except for the Pontiac styling bits which I dislike.

So when you say something is better, its your opinion. You make it sound like your opinion is fact... /soapbox

That aside, your comment about people going into the dealership is pretty funny, as I now remembered their ads about how you didn't need to go into the dealership.

 

[Tornado]

So when you say something is better, its your opinion. You make it sound like your opinion is fact... /soapbox

I would say the Cobalt is better than the Corolla (and the tC).

Opinion.

And the Pontiac Vibe is definitely the better between it and the Matrix.

Joke.

The XLR is also certainly better than the SC430.

Pretty much fact.

 

[Azuremen]

Bah, me and my over serious nature. On the Vibe, I thought you were saying Pontiac does a better interior, etc. You hid it too well between more serious comments

And I just went and checked prices on the XLR and SC430... of course the XLR will be better when it starts at 30 grand more than the SC430. I would still say the SC430 would run longer though. But this was were the majority of my opinion fact comment was directed.

 

[1X83Z]

My first thought after reading this was "people go into Saturn dealers?" And after some inflection, the thought is still baffling.

You know, Saturn was really up-front when they told the automotive press, at the debut of the Sky, that the entire reason for the manufacture of the product was to get people to go into the dealers.

I would say the Cobalt is better than the Corolla (and the tC). And the Pontiac Vibe is definitely the better between it and the Matrix. The XLR is also certainly better than the SC430.
Then we have trucks.

Anything's better than the Corolla, considering that it's been out since 2003. If I benchmarked the Corolla I could beat it three years later, too. Is it better than the Civic? The Sentra? The Mazda 3?

Of course the XLR is better than the SC430 - it's got to be $20k more expensive - but explain to me why the DTS has the same turn signal stalk as the Chevrolet Trailblazer. If that's GM's 'A-game,' as Brad suggested in the other thread, shoot me now.

 

[Tornado]

You know, Saturn was really up-front when they told the automotive press, at the debut of the Sky, that the entire reason for the manufacture of the product was to get people to go into the dealers.

Let me know how that goes over when people stop going into Saturn dealers with the sole intention of buying Skys and ignoring everything else.

but explain to me why the DTS has the same turn signal stalk as the Chevrolet Trailblazer.

Why bring the DeVille into this? What leverage does that add to the argument that I wasn't really bringing up in the first place?

 

[Barracuda]

oh my gosh its a turn signal, run away.

I don't see how having the same turn signal makes a real difference, or has any relevance

 

[skip0110]

My first thought after reading this was "people go into Saturn dealers?" And after some inflection, the thought is still baffling.

People go into Saturn dealers.
People go into Saturn dealers.
People go into Saturn dealers.


You're right. It is baffling, regardless of the inflection.

 

[Tornado]

That was intentional...yes. Quite.

 

[1X83Z]

oh my gosh its a turn signal, run away.

I don't see how having the same turn signal makes a real difference, or has any relevance

I pay $50k for a luxury car, I don't want a turn signal stalk that looks like it came from the Aveo.

By the way, GM - it's really cool that you can make cars whose doors lock at 18mph. Whoa. I'm shaking in my shoes. Why, then, can't you make cars where the cheap-ass plastic you use on the dashboard doesn't reflect in the steeply raked windshield so I can't see crap? Same question to Ford about the Edge.

The rental car driver job is really starting to make me hate domestic cars - although I must admit the vehicle I've been least impressed with is the Nissan Pathfinder.

 

[YSSMAN]

If that's GM's 'A-game,' as Brad suggested in the other thread, shoot me now.

I don't recall saying that the DTS was on GM's A-Game, but I probably would have suggested otherwise with it's stablemate, the Lucerne. At least that makes sense for $40K.

Most of GM's post-2004/5 vehicles are pretty good, and in some cases are arguably better than the competition. But that doesn't account for all of the cars, as there are still plenty that aren't so great.

 

[Pupik]

oh my gosh its a turn signal, run away.

I don't see how having the same turn signal makes a real difference, or has any relevance

For the most part (no pun intended), the 2007 Toyota Yaris and the 2007 Lexus LS 460 (and most everything in between for the brands) share a lot of switchgear like wiper stalks, turn signals, cruise control switches, and door/window switches. Some of them are labeled a little differently, depending on options. Until the 2004 model year, the shift lever plate on the Lexus LX 40 was exactly the same, to the part number, as my 1993 Corolla.

Of course, the bezels and trim surrounding the items are different. For example, the Corolla wood trim comes from the depleted forests of the Sahara Desert.

 

[1X83Z]

For the most part (no pun intended), the 2007 Toyota Yaris and the 2007 Lexus LS 460 (and most everything in between for the brands) share a lot of switchgear like wiper stalks, turn signals, cruise control switches, and door/window switches.

Summing up why Lexus has rightfully earned the reputation of being a 'more expensive Toyota.'

Also displaying how Lexus products are considerably cheaper - in more ways than one - than their European counterparts.

 

[skip0110]

A $300,000 Maybach has the same switchgear as a $85,000 S-class. And a $10,000 Aveo has the same switchgear as a $40,000 DTS.

Boo hoo.

 

[Garak]

I have never once met a salesman at a Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Chevrolet, Pontiac, Ford, Chrysler, Dodge, etc who actually researches the competition to the extent they would need to in order to prove something against a comparable car. Furthermore, more often than not, it is the foreign-make dealers who are "talking-down" to the domestic models be they at the dealership, in print ads, or in commercials.

I would tend to agree with you. In fact, in my experience, a lot of the sales personnel don't know enough about their own vehicles, let alone the vehicles offered by the competition. I've gone to a lot several times and had more knowledge about a specific model than the salesman. They've even called the head office to verify my information and found I was right.

The last new vehicle I bought, I simply had them order from the factory with the exact options I wanted. It pays to be in the know when you're spending a lot of money on a vehicle. It's a pity that the sales personnel don't have enough motivation to read something like Car & Driver or even their own company's website to see what's actually going on out there.

 

[a6m5]

True. I think most good salesmen know how to sell cars. How to maximize the profit, sell you stuff you don't need, get people stuck with bad loans, etc., etc.

Sometimes, you do meet a salesguy who are actually into cars, but I think they are pretty rare.

 

[YSSMAN]

Update:

The reinvigorated Saturn is one of the best things GM's got going right now. May 2007 sales were up 68% over the previous year (what a difference appealing product makes), and overall, it's up 30% YTD versus 2006.

Now comes word from Bloomberg News that starting tomorrow, June 11, all but 5 of the 430 Saturn dealers in the US will offer prospective Aura shoppers comparison test drives in the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry. According to Saturn's Lisa Hutchinson, its participating dealers are buying the imports that'll be used for the program, which runs through July 31. GM's showing a lot of confidence in its new products -- remember, Chevy dealers will have Camrys on the floor to compare to the new Malibu when it arrives, too. This is all good, and it could probably be even better.

Showing the competition to customers who've already found their way into the Saturn showroom is one thing. Getting even more people aware of the good new stuff in the Saturn showroom to begin with is another story. Saturn sales are decidedly up -- this is an inarguable fact -- but one has to wonder if it could (and should) be an even better story for GM. Just last night, after dinner with some friends, I pointed out an Aura XR leaving the restaurant to one of our companions as it drove by. We were actually chatting about cars at the time, and pleasantly surprised, he gave the "that's a Saturn?" reaction seen in the TV spots the automaker trotted out last year. That kind of response from the public is all well and good at new-model launch, but now, several months into sales, it struck me as being a bit of a problem. Similarly, last week, a friend who was over for a visit asked of the Aura Green Line in my garage, "Why don't I see more about this car?" Why, indeed.

Yes, it's just two people and its purely anecdotal -- I know this. But it makes me think that there are still plenty of people out there who simply aren't aware of the Aura and can't identify it when they do see it -- even if they like it. And make no mistake: both of the friends I refer to above would have no trouble identifying an Accord or Camry. The overall Saturn story right now is a a very good thing, but I'm beginning to wonder if there's even greater upside to be had. It boils down to awareness. GM is right to be proud of its new products and smart to serve up the competition in a side-by-side test for customers -- it communicates confidence, and that's compelling. The trick is to go out and get even more shoppers into stores to take that test in the first place. It seems like there's still untapped potential in that regard.

 

[1X83Z]

I wonder which five aren't going to offer the comparison, and why that is.

 

[Slicks]

Small dealer, small town, low overhead.

You can put alot of ads in the local paper/TV channel for the cost of an Accord or a Camry.

And GM should be doing alot more advertising on TV. Chevrolet's "Lets Go" ad (with the people in the office) is horrible. And I can't recall the last time I saw ads for Cadillac, Saturn, or Pontiac.
You see all the ads and TV show sponsorships from Ford, Toyota, etc. But not from GM. They should be advertising the hell out of their lineup right now, because without it people are going to keep thinking of the GM circa five years ago. Which is not good.

 

[a6m5]

I saw the new Satun midsize sedan on the road today. Very slick looking car. 👍

 

[1X83Z]

Small dealer, small town, low overhead.

You can put alot of ads in the local paper/TV channel for the cost of an Accord or a Camry.

Yeah but are there really any Saturn dealers in small towns?

 

[Race Idiot]

Update:

Thats a vectra.

Is this one of the miracle cars that will save GM in the us or whatever? A friggin vectra?

 

[YSSMAN]

Thats a vectra.

Is this one of the miracle cars that will save GM in the us or whatever? A friggin vectra?

Your eyes don't deceive, as the Vectra is pretty much GM's saving grace. Only Saturn gets the direct-descendant features of the Vectra here in the US, otherwise all the sister models use the same basic structure and parts, but do everything in their own way.

...Our cars are that bad, as the Vectra and Mondeo would take top-honors in class without much of a problem. The class is competitive, but it isn't as cut-throat as it is in Europe, which means they don't have to "try as hard" as they do over there.

Now if Ford would get on getting the Mondeo here...

 

[1X83Z]

Thats a vectra.

Is this one of the miracle cars that will save GM in the us or whatever? A friggin vectra?

The vehicles share a platform and nothing else - though the Vectra's platform is the small version and the Aura's is the long one. It's more related to the Signum; they exactly share a platform.

 

[Slicks]

Yeah but are there really any Saturn dealers in small towns?

Depends what you define as a small town. Or small city. There's a Saturn dealer where I live, and it only services about 90-100,000 people.

 

[YSSMAN]

The vehicles share a platform and nothing else - though the Vectra's platform is the small version and the Aura's is the long one. It's more related to the Signum; they exactly share a platform.

In short, yes. Thats a more detailed explanation that I had...

They share a platform, some other basic parts, and some body pannels. Otherwise, they are pretty much different cars. We only have V6 engines for 2007, but we're adding an I4 for 2008, and all the cars across the board have a 6-speed automatic (except the Hybrid, I think...). There isn't a manual transmission option, unfortuantely.

...I don't think any of the Epsilon cars (be they Gen I or Gen II) will be the smaller version 2008+. The Chevrolet Malibu was (not the Maxx), but there were many complaints about the rear-seat space. Otherwise, every other Epsilon car besides the 9-3 will ride on the extended chassis...

 

[1X83Z]

Depends what you define as a small town. Or small city. There's a Saturn dealer where I live, and it only services about 90-100,000 people.

A dealer in a city that size can't be considered 'small town' - I don't think there are any Saturn dealers in towns that aren't pretty sizable. The dealer in the smallest Colorado town is a metropolitan area of just under 140,000.