Sciaru BRZFRS (BreezeFrees)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Azuremen
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Please go to truecar/edmunds and quote a price for all that.

Don't see it with basic V6 Coupe. I only see navi option for V6 Premium.

Not trying to get off topic but the base V6 Mustang has HID's, an LSD, and 305hp. Edmunds puts it at $22,502 in my area. You don't need the track pack to get an LSD.
 
Fact: 08+ WRX rear sway bar fits like a glove.
How big is that compared to the stock one? And will the STi rear sway fit?

I'm going to agree that it should have been cheaper. I was hoping for somewhere around $22k.
Thirded, again. The car is too expensive and that's just the way it is. If I'm complaining that it's too expensive despite delivering the driving experience precisely how I want it then you know it's too expensive.
 
Keef
How big is that compared to the stock one? And will the STi rear sway fit?

Not sure on stock size, the AP bar is 22mm, pretty beefy for a rear bar. No idea on the STi bar, but wouldn't surprise me.
 
Edmunds puts it at $22,502 in my area.
Like I said - to get navigation (the real kind, with screen and maps) you need V6 premium + relevant package, which is $27k+. For my needs BRZ is a bargain. My needs don't need to coincide with the needs of others.
 
I'd just save the money and buy a map. :lol:
I would just use the Garmin I already have. Less than half the price of the factory option and I can unplug it and take it with me on my bike or while walking around the city or whatever.
 
Again, to me in-dash navi >> standalone units. Because I don't have to bother hiding/disconnecting it every time I'm parked not in my garage. Real-time traffic information is also something I really use.
 
The advent of the smart phone is also kind of hurting the stand alone gps marketing.

Yep, and the same applies to in-dash navigation.

Again, to me in-dash navi >> standalone units. Because I don't have to bother hiding/disconnecting it every time I'm parked not in my garage. Real-time traffic information is also something I really use.
I have realtime traffic information on my smartphone navigation software as well. Also, since I hook up my phone anyway (either via wire or Bluetooth streaming) to listen to music and call handsfree, there's no additional hassle for me. I would never pay for in-dash navigation.
 
Thirded, again. The car is too expensive and that's just the way it is. If I'm complaining that it's too expensive despite delivering the driving experience precisely how I want it then you know it's too expensive.

Needs to be priced to make them money though. I think people are underestimating how much it costs to design an all-new RWD platform (and new engine) from scratch, rather than churning out billions of Mustangs with a bunch of components that have been around since Jesus. The Sciaru is maybe a little on the expensive side, but justifiably so.

And anyway, you're still getting it for around $15k less than we do in the UK, so quit bitching :sly:
 
I think people are underestimating how much it costs to design an all-new RWD platform (and new engine) from scratch, rather than churning out billions of Mustangs with a bunch of components that have been around since Jesus.

Thing is, outside of the rear axle...

Most stuff in the Mustang is fairly recent.
 
Like I said - to get navigation (the real kind, with screen and maps) you need V6 premium + relevant package, which is $27k+. For my needs BRZ is a bargain. My needs don't need to coincide with the needs of others.

I find it hard to believe that the only thing separating the two cars in your mind is in-dash GPS. If you don't like the Mustang because it's a Mustang, or it doesn't have the x-factor of the BR-Z, then that's one thing. I can understand that. But saying you will pay $3,000 more for a car, otherwise equal in your opinion, primarily because it has in-dash nav is just insane...
 
Never used a subaru or toyota navi, have you?

No idea what the Subarus are like. But the 5 or so Toyota ones that I have used worked really well. They are just incredibly un user friendly. I think once you get used to it though, it would not be so bad.
 
Thing is, outside of the rear axle...

Most stuff in the Mustang is fairly recent.

It's still a platform that's been around since 2005, the V8 engine has its roots in the early 90s, and it's produced in great numbers in the same country in which it's sold. The base V6 is a fairly new engine but all the other stuff still applies, so it's hardly a ground-up project.

The Sciaru is a brand new platform, with a brand new engine, and it's built several thousand miles of ocean away from the country in which it's being sold.

Logically, which one do you think costs more to produce?...

I just think it's unfair judging the Sciaru's price against something like the Mustang, because whether people cross-shop or not, they're too very different cars and the Mustang has a huge home advantage as far as overheads go. Ford can churn them out by the hundreds of thousands for comparatively little money.

Much fairer to judge it against the MX-5, which costs a bit less, has a bit less power, a bit less space, and no roof. Spec one up and you're not far off Sciaru money.
 
I find it hard to believe that the only thing separating the two cars in your mind is in-dash GPS. If you don't like the Mustang because it's a Mustang, or it doesn't have the x-factor of the BR-Z, then that's one thing. I can understand that. But saying you will pay $3,000 more for a car, otherwise equal in your opinion, primarily because it has in-dash nav is just insane...
There are also about zero reasons to buy a V6 mustang w/o pony pack (costs some dough), but that never factors into rants people have about BRZ/FR-S costing what it cost. And it's kinda funny how people here promptly moved from a statement "no other car with options XYZ cheaper then BRZ" into "paying $X for an option Y is insane". To that I'll reply that figuring out the $X based on BRZ/FRS price less base V6 Mustang is retarded.
 
Much fairer to judge it against the MX-5, which costs a bit less, has a bit less power, a bit less space, and no roof. Spec one up and you're not far off Sciaru money.
Interesting because everything but the engine on the Miata is platform specific, designed and engineered by a much smaller company than Toyota with higher unit cost and higher R&D costs. The next one's goal is to be smaller, lighter, and even cheaper than the one we have now, going to show that it isn't the engineering causing the FR-S to be so expensive. While Mazda is planning to completely re-engineer their car and yet make it cheaper, Toyota and Subaru split the costs, shared parts, didn't even bother making different tail lights, and yet are pricing it higher than a base Miata. The Miata is fairly expensive for a reason. Toyota and Subaru are simply cashing in on the hype.
 
Interesting because everything but the engine on the Miata is platform specific, designed and engineered by a much smaller company than Toyota with higher unit cost and higher R&D costs. The next one's goal is to be smaller, lighter, and even cheaper than the one we have now, going to show that it isn't the engineering causing the FR-S to be so expensive. While Mazda is planning to completely re-engineer their car and yet make it cheaper, Toyota and Subaru split the costs, shared parts, didn't even bother making different tail lights, and yet are pricing it higher than a base Miata. The Miata is fairly expensive for a reason. Toyota and Subaru are simply cashing in on the hype.

All the while providing a better car than the Miata.
Funny how that works, kinda made my face look like your avatar as I read your post. :p
 
Interesting because everything but the engine on the Miata is platform specific, designed and engineered by a much smaller company than Toyota with higher unit cost and higher R&D costs.

I get what you're saying (apart from the bit in bold, which is pure conjecture on your part - they sell hundreds of thousands of Miatas globally and the R&D will easily have paid for itself hundreds of times over by now), but don't forget that the MX-5 still isn't as much car as the Sciaru - that was my point. They're both fairly specialist cars which are more expensive than higher-performance stuff you can find elsewhere. The Sciaru is more expensive, but then it also has more power, a roof, more seats, more equipment... so it's obviously going to be more expensive.

The next one's goal is to be smaller, lighter, and even cheaper than the one we have now, going to show that it isn't the engineering causing the FR-S to be so expensive.

It remains to be seen whether the next MX-5 will genuinely be cheaper or not, but you can bet that Mazda will have much greater economies of scale on the new engine than Subaru/Toyota will ever have with the Sciaru's flat four.

Assuming the MX-5 will use the Skyactiv we think it will, that engine will almost certainly be dropped in everything from the Mazda2 to the Mazda6, depending on region.

I think you're being needlessly cynical on the price. It's a purpose designed car (like the MX-5), but it also offers proportionally more of various different things, and can justify that price from a variety of factors.

And I'll say again - you're still getting it cheaper there than we are here. If Toyota/Subaru are "cashing in on the hype" then it's in Europe, not the US.
 
I think you're being needlessly cynical on the price.

/Argument
:lol:

Clearly this is the case when a handful of car enthusiasts are arguing over the BRZ's merit by discussing the in-dash navigation. :rolleyes:
 
Looks like Inside Line is planning on adding both an FR-S and a BRZ to their long-term fleet. I'm wondering if they will be corporate supplied or purchased themselves, although with them already knowing that their FR-S will be a red manual coupe, that might seem as though it is the case. I hope they do try to get the BRZ in a separate channel, to see what dealer markup is like, and get a sense of what the resale value will be once they hit 20K.

Their drivers seem to have a pretty wide variety of backgrounds and expectations, I fully expect them to give a fair assessment on each car.
 
Hoping to finally get a go in a BRZ on Thursday - Subaru is coming to a multi-manufacturer test day in the UK and they'll have an example there. When I'm done with getting photos and videos of the "green" stuff I'm going straight over to the Subaru stand...
 
Just got the following email in my inbox. It might interest some of you:



WELCOME TO SCION FR-S FIRST DRIVE TOUR

The 2013 Scion FR-S Ride and Drive Experience

The wait is almost over. One of the most anticipated automotive events of the year - the launch of the 2013 Scion FR-S, is here. You can see for yourself what the excitement is about, by getting behind the wheel of the FR-S during the Scion FR-S First Drive Tour - a series of exclusive ride and drive events taking place at 16 cities around the country.


The FR-S First Drive tour is stopping by your area at The Ohio Expo Center, in Columbus, OH on June 23, 2012. Register now for one of a limited number of spots and you will be among the first people in the country to experience the Scion FR-S first hand.


At each FR-S First Drive event, participants will be able to see up close the car that is "bringing the sport back to the car". Learn more about the FR-S and sample the balanced performance characteristics unique to a front mounted, flat boxer-powered rear wheel drive sports coupe - designed for enthusiasts by enthusiasts. Experience the precision-engineered handling and driving fun expected of the successor to the legendary "Hachi-roku".

Like every model Scion offers, the FR-S is also about personalization. Customize the FR-S to fit your style from the many customization possibilities directly from Scion, or through our Scion OPTOMIZE aftermarket program partners.


You can also expect standout styling, performance, value, fuel efficiency, driving dynamics, and safety features from all Scion models. And as a marque of Toyota, all Scion vehicles are built with world-class Toyota quality and reliability.

Check it out for yourself, and tell your friends. Find more info and register* for the event at frscolumbus.eventbrite.com - and you'll be one of the first people in the country to get behind the wheel of the 2013 Scion FR-S.

*Limited space - please register soon

Thanks for stopping by!

Date: Saturday, June 23, 2012
Times: 11am - 6pm

Location:
The Ohio Expo Center
Main Lot
717 East 17th Avenue
Columbus, OH 43211


*All participants must be at least 21 years of age and legally licensed with a valid U.S. 50-state issued driver's license at the time of the event. Participation requires signature of a waiver and proof of license.

**Event is free and open to the public - however, driving activities are limited and offered to registered participants only.
 
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Do we have the list of the other cities?

I'll post if I get any updates. I think that seeing as they sent me the Colombus notice, we can assume that there will be nothing closer to the Detroit area.

I am disappointed with the date of the event. If the "first drive" event isn't until late June, when are the cars going to arrive at the dealerships?
 
My local dealer got one in (that was ordered and already sold - and automatic, ew) last week.
 

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