Sciaru BRZFRS (BreezeFrees)

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boomee
It seems to be going the jack of all trades master of none route but yeah it could be hardcore in some iteration, very focused or track oriented.
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I'm not sure how you've come to this "jack of all trades" conclusion.

It's a relatively light, rear-drive coupe.

How is that any different to thousands of other cars sold in the past? I'm not sure what the benefit is of trying to psycho-analyse a Japanese coupe. It seems to me to be one of the most straightforward performance cars available. As little BS as possible. It's essentially a Miata with a solid roof.
 
boomee
Your Opinion I guess.
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Not really. I fail to see how a very basic concept could be considered a "jack of all trades". If it was trying to be a sports coupe and an off-roader and a minivan then that description would make sense, but at the moment its purpose seems fairly clear-cut. Fun sports coupe. Probably one of the least diverse types of car on the market.
 
http://www.ft86club.com/?p=772

KwW7B.jpg


The engineers assured him that there will be two manual gearbox options with different ratios
The Toyota will be the most affordable of the trio
The test unit was wearing Michelin Primacy HPs in 215/45 size on 17" wheels
They have freed car's electronics (ECU) so aftermarket industry can tune it at its will
It's going to be on sale on June of 2012
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homeforsummer
Not really. I fail to see how a very basic concept could be considered a "jack of all trades". If it was trying to be a sports coupe and an off-roader and a minivan then that description would make sense, but at the moment its purpose seems fairly clear-cut. Fun sports coupe. Probably one of the least diverse types of car on the market.
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again your opinion
 
boomee
again your opinion
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It appears you don't know the meaning of the word opinion then. I'm telling you that a basic RWD sports coupe is NOT attempting to be a jack of all trades. It does what it says on the tin. Really simple stuff here.
 
boomee
again your opinion
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

As for the car, 215/45/17 seems... narrow for that size of wheel. Why not just go with something a touch wider, if just for looks? Because 215 is just going to look silly narrow on wheels that size...
 
I'm guessing the wheels are 17x7. Hoping only the fronts are 215 might dumb of me.
 
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Why not? I'd rather have a naked engine growling at me through the firewall than muffled to near complete silence under an engine cover... :lol:
 
It's likely very close to the final look of the engine bay. It has that silly red cover that wasn't there previously, battery has been relocated, intake piping changed a bit. The single wire should be of no concern, likely for testing purposes.
It's already quite different from what it looked like previously.
 
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Azuremen
As for the car, 215/45/17 seems... narrow for that size of wheel. Why not just go with something a touch wider, if just for looks? Because 215 is just going to look silly narrow on wheels that size...
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My only guess is they've gone for something a little narrow just to make it particularly easy to kick the back end out at whatever speed you like. Suspect they've deliberately under-endowed it for the benefit of it being a bit less grippy and a bit more adjustable.
 
homeforsummer
My only guess is they've gone for something a little narrow just to make it particularly easy to kick the back end out at whatever speed you like. Suspect they've deliberately under-endowed it for the benefit of it being a bit less grippy and a bit more adjustable.
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^This.

Grip is overrated, especially if you are trying to make the car fun to drive. You want to just go around a corner faster? - stick some wider rubber on. You want to corner and feel exactly what the car is doing with the option to adjust it on the throttle? - leave it with some narrower tyres. Preferably with slightly higher sidewalls. The wider and thinner a tyre gets, the less feedback you get to feel.
 
homeforsummer
My only guess is they've gone for something a little narrow just to make it particularly easy to kick the back end out at whatever speed you like. Suspect they've deliberately under-endowed it for the benefit of it being a bit less grippy and a bit more adjustable.
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That would be very surprising seeing as the car is from both subaru and toyota. One is the poster boy for grip and understeer and the other is toyota.
Well, reading that article, I guess maybe they used the skinny tires cause the car is naturally quite understeery.


Hmm, according to edmunds, the car seems to have gained some 100lbs.
 
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TheCracker
^This.

Grip is overrated, especially if you are trying to make the car fun to drive. You want to just go around a corner faster? - stick some wider rubber on. You want to corner and feel exactly what the car is doing with the option to adjust it on the throttle? - leave it with some narrower tyres. Preferably with slightly higher sidewalls. The wider and thinner a tyre gets, the less feedback you get to feel.
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I have to say I disagree on the last part there... the more sidewall, the more flex you have in the tire before it starts to break away, and the slight delay from the deformation to when you get the feedback. Much like how new tires with a decent amount of tread always feel vague as hell in my opinion.

And if they are going to under tire the car, they might as well go with 16's so it as least cheap to do so...

EDIT: Read the article. Somewhat meh about the numbers on the weight there. I am feeling this isn't going to pull my attention away from the M3 much, if at all. And a touch disappointed by the 7500RPM redline. Yes, it is decently high but I dunno, I want more screaming Japanese 4 cylinder.
 
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eSZee
That would be very surprising seeing as the car is from both subaru and toyota. One is the poster boy for grip and understeer and the other is toyota.
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Given that Subaru is giving their car more power I'd expect wider tyres from them.

The Toyota thing is irrelevant. People seem incapable of judging them on anything other than Priuses and Camrys at the moment which is a shame, because they're still the company that made Celicas, MR2s and other fun stuff.

There's absolutely zero reason they can't go back to that. Not to mention that the chief engineer has been quoted in every test so far as saying that they're aiming for fun rather than fast. With that in mind going for narrower tyres just seems like putting two and two together.

Azuremen
I have to say I disagree on the last part there... the more sidewall, the more flex you have in the tire before it starts to break away, and the slight delay from the deformation to when you get the feedback.
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Not strictly true. Less sidewall means quicker steering response but not necessarily more steering feel, particularly as a bit of flex means a wider period between the tyre moving and the tyre letting go of the road - something that a car with good steering will let you feel. There's a reason why older cars like the Lotus Elan (and you suspect Cracker's Lotus Cortina racer) or old 911s have such incredible steering feel and it's not just down to the lack of power assistance.

Obviously it isn't the case on every car, but it's certainly the case on some.
 
215/45R17 is becoming more popular, so it shouldn't be that much more expensive. It's not like they chose a weird size like 195/60R16, either.

Like many sports-car owners, probably a third of the buyers are going to swap out the wheels for something different.
 
homeforsummer
Not strictly true. Less sidewall means quicker steering response but not necessarily more steering feel, particularly as a bit of flex means a wider period between the tyre moving and the tyre letting go of the road - something that a car with good steering will let you feel. There's a reason why older cars like the Lotus Elan (and you suspect Cracker's Lotus Cortina racer) or old 911s have such incredible steering feel and it's not just down to the lack of power assistance.

Obviously it isn't the case on every car, but it's certainly the case on some.
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I wasn't blanketing as strict rule, more my personal observation from the plethora of tires I've maimed and destroyed on my MR2s, Civic, and M3 over the years. Generally speaking, anything at or under 50 for the tire profile is fine, and I did love the 205/50/15 sizes I could run on the various Japanese cars I've had. And it was cheap. But the 235/45/17 on the M3 right now are still easy enough to over whelm if I want, and those are Star Specs. More typical road tires in that size shouldn't be a huge feat to break loose with the specs on the FR-S.
 
Azuremen
I have to say I disagree on the last part there... the more sidewall, the more flex you have in the tire before it starts to break away, and the slight delay from the deformation to when you get the feedback. Much like how new tires with a decent amount of tread always feel vague as hell in my opinion.
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Perhaps more 'feedback' isn't strictly true. Sidewall flex allows a more progressive breakaway which in turn gives a greater degree of confidence to push upto and beyond the tyre's grip limit.
 
Azuremen
I wasn't blanketing as strict rule, more my personal observation from the plethora of tires I've maimed and destroyed on my MR2s, Civic, and M3 over the years. Generally speaking, anything at or under 50 for the tire profile is fine, and I did love the 205/50/15 sizes I could run on the various Japanese cars I've had. And it was cheap. But the 235/45/17 on the M3 right now are still easy enough to over whelm if I want, and those are Star Specs. More typical road tires in that size shouldn't be a huge feat to break loose with the specs on the FR-S.
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Actually, you may have hit on the other reason for the tyres on the FT-86 - low cost. Which of course is a good thing on a car designed to go sideways a lot.

Remember that the Toyota only has around 200bhp (I say only, that's still not bad from an NA 2-litre) and your M3 has more, so I'd expect on M3-sized tyres it'd be much harder to get the Toyota sliding.
 
My Civic has 215/45R17s stock (I use 225/45R17 Star Specs for autocross) on 17x7 wheels. Just seems like that's becoming a standard size. With similar weight, RWD, and better weight distribution, that tire size should be just fine. My MR2 has 185/65?R14 all seasons and 195/55R15 Star Specs and isn't too terrible on either setup. Lots of momentum oversteer of course, but I don't think that will go away without like 265s on the rear. :lol:
 
eSZee
I'm guessing the wheels are 17x7. Hoping only the fronts are 215 might dumb of me.
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215 is a square fitment on a x7 wheel, depending on the tire. My old 205 RT615s were at least square on my x7 wheels.

If any of you know me, you can imagine that I'm greatly looking forward to these two sisters cars. Finally somebody is making a sports coupe that, relative to the rest of the performance car market, will be like the old Miata or AE86 at its time, but in practice is about the same size, weight, and of similar performance to an FC RX7 Turbo II. Without the turbo, and with the efficiency (power and fuel-wise) typical of modern engines. This excites me greatly because it means that I might actually be able to upgrade from my RX7, which is costly to restore to the condition I want it, to this new Toyota which seems like it might be very similar in performance and feel. I want a small, light, sprightly sports coupe that is pretty cheap to buy and maintain. This car, used and new, will be on my shopping list in the next 5 years because I hope to be able to afford one by then.
 
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