Scientific proof of god?

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Ok, I stumbled across the site one day, and attempted to read it. I understood what the author was trying to say some of the time, but for the most part was utterly confused. So I just thought I might post it to see what you guys can get from it and also if there is someone who is smart enough to figure out what they’re trying to say.

http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com/
 
God is a Hula dancer?


hula%20dancer.jpg
 
We have actually found a scientific, experimentally confirmed, axiomatic physics, proof that God is caused by Gravity
And I have proof that my computer is a time travel machine that will allow me to travel back in time.... :rolleyes:

Woo, formula for god!

God = Guv

Blake
 
We are studying this in RS funnily enough, and i have to write an essay on it by next wednesday!
My personal opinion is the same as pascal - that there is no way of telling, it's all a gamble. But that page is just ridiculous.
 
Scientific disproof of God: "God" is defined as omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. Any proof of God's existence instantly denies all three of these things - if one can prove God's existence they you know that which is omniscient, thus becoming omniscient yourself, and can locate the omnipresent, denying the ability to be in all places at once by pinning it down.

Scientific proof of God's existence is, therefore, scientific proof of God's non-existence.

Q.E.D.


However, every atom of everything in the universe is omnipresent. Each atom is surrounded by an electron probability cloud. This extends from "relatively close" to the nucleus out to infinity, meaning that, at any point in time, the electrons belonging to that atom could be whizzing around near it, or out at infinity. Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle means we cannot pin down both the location and velocity of a particle. So each atom is in contact with every other atom in the universe at the same time. Meaning that WE are omnipresent and, by definition, omniscient and omnipotent (we know everything since we're in contact with everything, and we're all powerful on the same basis). Meaning that WE are God. Which, as detailed above, means we aren't.

Q.E.D. again.

Confused yet?
 
Famine
Scientific disproof of God: "God" is defined as omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. Any proof of God's existence instantly denies all three of these things - if one can prove God's existence they you know that which is omniscient, thus becoming omniscient yourself, and can locate the omnipresent, denying the ability to be in all places at once by pinning it down.

Scientific proof of God's existence is, therefore, scientific proof of God's non-existence.

Q.E.D.


However, every atom of everything in the universe is omnipresent. Each atom is surrounded by an electron probability cloud. This extends from "relatively close" to the nucleus out to infinity, meaning that, at any point in time, the electrons belonging to that atom could be whizzing around near it, or out at infinity. Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle means we cannot pin down both the location and velocity of a particle. So each atom is in contact with every other atom in the universe at the same time. Meaning that WE are omnipresent and, by definition, omniscient and omnipotent (we know everything since we're in contact with everything, and we're all powerful on the same basis). Meaning that WE are God. Which, as detailed above, means we aren't.

Q.E.D. again.

Confused yet?

Yeah. What he said
 
Famine
Scientific disproof of God: "God" is defined as omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. Any proof of God's existence instantly denies all three of these things - if one can prove God's existence they you know that which is omniscient, thus becoming omniscient yourself, and can locate the omnipresent, denying the ability to be in all places at once by pinning it down.

Scientific proof of God's existence is, therefore, scientific proof of God's non-existence.

Q.E.D.


However, every atom of everything in the universe is omnipresent. Each atom is surrounded by an electron probability cloud. This extends from "relatively close" to the nucleus out to infinity, meaning that, at any point in time, the electrons belonging to that atom could be whizzing around near it, or out at infinity. Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle means we cannot pin down both the location and velocity of a particle. So each atom is in contact with every other atom in the universe at the same time. Meaning that WE are omnipresent and, by definition, omniscient and omnipotent (we know everything since we're in contact with everything, and we're all powerful on the same basis). Meaning that WE are God. Which, as detailed above, means we aren't.

Q.E.D. again.

Confused yet?

The infinite pwning.
 
I think the only way you can prove it is with DNA testing, although that may prove a bit difficult.
 
As long as you are not impotent then omnipotent or omniscent isnt such a bad thing although Viagra can help one . I know of nothing that helps the others athough it could be argued that its all inmaterial in only a legal sense.
 
Famine
However, every atom of everything in the universe is omnipresent. Each atom is surrounded by an electron probability cloud. This extends from "relatively close" to the nucleus out to infinity, meaning that, at any point in time, the electrons belonging to that atom could be whizzing around near it, or out at infinity.

There you have it!

The Electrons are our new God :D :lol:

:bowdown: to the Atoms, the only thing that can really be omnipresent.

Note I am not laughing at you or at what you said, Famine - I am perfectly aware of the Uncertainty Principle.

The Wizard.
 
At the severe risk of making a complete ass out of myself (which usually comes about automatically when quoting Famine and playing devil's advocate...)
Famine
Scientific disproof of God: "God" is defined as omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. Any proof of God's existence instantly denies all three of these things - if one can prove God's existence they you know that which is omniscient, thus becoming omniscient yourself, and can locate the omnipresent, denying the ability to be in all places at once by pinning it down.
God isn't defined as being the SOLE omniscient being, so you can know god, and be omniscient. At the same time, god will know you, as god is omniscient. You end up with two omniscient beings, you and god.

And, locating the omnipresent isn't hard. It's everywhere. Therefore, god is right over there. God is sitting on the floor of my room. God is sitting at the floor of the ocean. God is at both places at once, and I can know that, but pinning down those specific locations does not deny it's ability to be in multiple locations.
Famine
However, every atom of everything in the universe is omnipresent. Each atom is surrounded by an electron probability cloud. This extends from "relatively close" to the nucleus out to infinity, meaning that, at any point in time, the electrons belonging to that atom could be whizzing around near it, or out at infinity. Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle means we cannot pin down both the location and velocity of a particle. So each atom is in contact with every other atom in the universe at the same time. Meaning that WE are omnipresent and, by definition, omniscient and omnipotent (we know everything since we're in contact with everything, and we're all powerful on the same basis). Meaning that WE are God. Which, as detailed above, means we aren't.
Each atom cannot be in contact with each other atom in the universe. We know that specific atoms have specific numbers of electrons orbiting a nucleus. We also know the approximate size of each electron. So, we have the volume and surface area of each electron (and the nucleus), multiplied by the number of electrons, and you get the amount of space that a single atom's electrons can take up and be adjacent to. This is a finite number, so a single atom cannot be omnipresent.

Now...I guess it seems that I'm trying to prove that god exists, and we aren't god, but not really. I just really doubt that anyone's gonna make a foolproof proof of god's existence or non-existence.

Personally, I find reading Famine's post much easier than reading that 4 page thing. But, given the bit that I did read, I highly doubt that it is actually a recognized proof.
 
Famine
Scientific disproof of God: "God" is defined as omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. Any proof of God's existence instantly denies all three of these things - if one can prove God's existence they you know that which is omniscient, thus becoming omniscient yourself, and can locate the omnipresent, denying the ability to be in all places at once by pinning it down.

Scientific proof of God's existence is, therefore, scientific proof of God's non-existence.

Q.E.D.


However, every atom of everything in the universe is omnipresent. Each atom is surrounded by an electron probability cloud. This extends from "relatively close" to the nucleus out to infinity, meaning that, at any point in time, the electrons belonging to that atom could be whizzing around near it, or out at infinity. Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle means we cannot pin down both the location and velocity of a particle. So each atom is in contact with every other atom in the universe at the same time. Meaning that WE are omnipresent and, by definition, omniscient and omnipotent (we know everything since we're in contact with everything, and we're all powerful on the same basis). Meaning that WE are God. Which, as detailed above, means we aren't.

Q.E.D. again.

Confused yet?

Agreed, I'm glad you busted out the modern physcis so I didn't have to.

But I think God is a matter of what you believe. Supposedly I'm supposed to be Christian, but in reality I'm more based on scientific proof of things.

But I still believe in a supreme being since I really do think that our universe is part of something bigger. To put it in prosective, I think we are like atoms of a bigger world and this might be were God comes from. I know it's an off the wall thought, but that's what I think of that.
 
Well if I knew what the bigger thing was then I wouldn't be a poor college kid. My guess would be it's some sort of supreme being, maybe something like a big human and whatnot.

Also since there are an infinate number of universes and an infinite number of diamentions, this could be the other universes that make up this something bigger. You really have to open your mind past religion to fully understand all of this. I'm not saying religion is bad, I just don't think it's correct.

I base my beliefs on science as I said, I'm one that needs proof. It you can so me some real evidence of a God and I'll believe you.

But you asked how we find this something bigger. Well lots and lots of physics. It's hard to explain it so you can understand but basically take all of Quantum Physics and expand it.

Also to quote the Simpsons "I was doing my taxes and I accidently proved there was no God"
 
Purple Platypus
God isn't defined as being the SOLE omniscient being, so you can know god, and be omniscient. At the same time, god will know you, as god is omniscient. You end up with two omniscient beings, you and god.

You know everything. God knows everything. Right?

You know what God is thinking, God knows what you are thinking. Therefore God is you and you are God - after all, what defines us better than our thoughts?


Purple Platypus
And, locating the omnipresent isn't hard. It's everywhere. Therefore, god is right over there. God is sitting on the floor of my room. God is sitting at the floor of the ocean. God is at both places at once, and I can know that, but pinning down those specific locations does not deny it's ability to be in multiple locations.

Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle comes into play here, along with a little bit of other quantum physics.

You can know where something IS, or where it is GOING, but you can't know both. Quantum physics tells us that a particle cannot be in two places at the same time. So by pinning down God you know where he is and that he can't be placed somewhere else at the same time - or you can know where he's going to be in a couple of seconds and that he can't be placed anywhere else at the same time, denying the omnipresent.


Purple Platypus
Each atom cannot be in contact with each other atom in the universe. We know that specific atoms have specific numbers of electrons orbiting a nucleus. We also know the approximate size of each electron. So, we have the volume and surface area of each electron (and the nucleus), multiplied by the number of electrons, and you get the amount of space that a single atom's electrons can take up and be adjacent to. This is a finite number, so a single atom cannot be omnipresent.

Indeed it IS a finite number, but you do not know WHERE the electrons are. They don't orbit as you see in school textbooks. In fact, truth be told, they don't orbit AT ALL. Electrons exist in probability fields. They are more likely to be close to the nucleus they are associated with than they are to be at infinity, but they have a small probability of being at infinity. This means that, at any given moment, any electron associated with any nucleus could be at infinity. This means that atoms - nucleus + electrons - all have infinite size and are all in constant contact with each other.

Purple Platypus
Now...I guess it seems that I'm trying to prove that god exists, and we aren't god, but not really. I just really doubt that anyone's gonna make a foolproof proof of god's existence or non-existence.

Personally, I find reading Famine's post much easier than reading that 4 page thing. But, given the bit that I did read, I highly doubt that it is actually a recognized proof.

It isn't. It's a proof of disproof.

Due to Christianity's definition of "God", one cannot physically prove God's existence, as to do so would be to disprove God's existence. The converse is ALSO true.

Anyone not currently scratching their heads hasn't fully read this post. I certainly am.
 
RedWolfRacer
That's funny. The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy disproves God in the first few pages.

👍

RedWolfRacer
Of course, it's a comedy novel.

But is it really? :odd: j/k I'm just glad that Douglas Adams wasn't around 2000 years ago... we'd all probably be worshipping the number 42 to this day! :)
 
After the devastating tsunami on 26th Dec 2004, I listened to a fascinating debate on BBC Radio 5, discussing the subject of "If God exists, why does he kill 250,000 with a tsunami"... I can't remember the exact names of the panellists, but basically there were 4 people, one of them was a vicar, and another was Richard Dawkins (a close personal friend of Douglas Adams by the way)... for the most part the debate was being fuelled by members of the public phoning in and voicing their opinions... the range of comments coming in was quite amazing... everything from 'It's all part of God's mysterious plan' to 'God is punishing the human race for allowing Blair and Bush to invade Iraq'... of course, there were more rationalist comments too, but the surprising fact was that a whole lot of people truly believe that 'God' was responsible for the tsunami. Alot of people also saw the Asian tsunami as proof that God exists, that he is all powerful, and can take 250,000 lives at a whim.

As most people (even those who believe God was 'responsible') will concede, the tsunami was caused by a massive Earthquake. A geological event. But the real question was, WHY did it happen... Dawkins explanation was, for me, the only one that made any sense... it happened for no reason at all. And he exposed an interesting paradox in the question of why people believe in God... and that is, why do people believe there is a God, and then go on to believe that he deliberately acts in this way? That God is all-powerful, and capable of mass murder, allowing wars and plaques and famines to happen, and seemingly not care...? Doesn't this make God a bit of a b@stard? Dawkins prefers to think not. And I agree... I think that it's pretty pointless to blame 'God' for such tragedies. As Dawkins said, "Isn't it more consoling to believe that God doesn't exist at all than that he is a callous monster?"

Below are the transcripts of a similar argument, published in 'The Guardian' newspaper... in Dawkins' response, he again asks where is the consolation in believing that Religion and God can take away the pain of a tragedy, when it can't... Religious people who believe that God does these things seem to think that atheist, rationalist or humanist people are cold-hearted cynics who offer no consolation to people in times of tragedy. But what consolation do you get by believing in a God who can be so cruel? In truth, tsunamis are always going to happen, and sometimes cause great tragedy like on Boxing Day 2004, but no amount of praying or attempting to prove that God exists is ever going to save any lives. Only a rational approach and a scientific understanding of these things offer any real hope that, when it happens again, more lives may be saved.

Article
http://www.simonyi.ox.ac.uk/dawkins/WorldOfDawkins-archive/Media/2002-09-23religion.shtml
Dawkin's Response
http://www.simonyi.ox.ac.uk/dawkins/WorldOfDawkins-archive/Media/2002-09-27response_fraser.shtml

edit:

powripper
But hey, now we dont have to worry about if there is a god or not! we can all live forever! yay!

http://www.alexchiu.com/eternallife/

Great find :lol:... oh the joys of the internet... I particularly like the 'Testimonials' page... although it's quite disturbing... here's an example:

"QUESTION: Do you have any customer with HIV cured using your device?Thank you very much Alex. ANSWER: This is a good question. I don't know if my rings can get rid of HIV. But I think people who got HIV or AIDS won't die with my rings on."

That's great advice, dude.. 👍 He also goes on about 'Bible Codes'... don't get me started... :sly:
 
Touring Mars
That God is all-powerful... allowing ... famines to happen

I'll thank you not to take my name in vain... :lol:
 
Touring Mars, some who think God exsist would argue that God makes everything happen for a reason. But with me, since I am a scienctific person, I think that those people died because some plates crashed together causing an earthquake. A lot of people died because they didn't get the warning in time due to a lack of technology in their country. Some god didn't smite these people.


I have a magnetic braclet like that, but the only reason I were it is because you aren't a hard core golfer if you don't.
 
This is a very interesting conversation indeed! I tried to read that website, and I got through the first page. But I already began to stumble at the end of it, and I only skimmed through page 2 and 3. I don't really get their arguments for gods existence, so I don't know if it's them or me who's stupid. :dunce:

Anyway, I highly doubt that gods existence can be proven scientifically, cause science and religion don't go well together.

Cheers,
the Interceptor
 
Well, I'd like to continue the head-scratching fun.
Famine
You know everything. God knows everything. Right?

You know what God is thinking, God knows what you are thinking. Therefore God is you and you are God - after all, what defines us better than our thoughts?
I'd say that defining someone/something by its thoughts is good enough. One could argue that individuals should be defined by their hair color, but that'd just be silly.

But, then you get the definition of "thoughts." Personally, I'd split your argument into two categories of "thinking." First would be a passive category of simply knowing. A second would be an active category of thinking. Going back to defining people by their thoughts, I'd say that the active version of "thinking" is a better definition of a person than the passive version of "knowing."

So, you (as an omniscient being) can know what god is thinking. But, you can be actively thinking about something else. In this case, you can be thinking about the anatomy of a bird while god is thinking about Charles Dickens. Both you and god are aware of what the other is thinking, but only passively. Actively, the two of you are thinking about different things. Therefore, you are different beings.

Now...that bit of argument up there is based purely off definition, which can easily end up skewed. So, I don't know if that argument got anywhere, really.
Famine
Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle comes into play here, along with a little bit of other quantum physics.

You can know where something IS, or where it is GOING, but you can't know both. Quantum physics tells us that a particle cannot be in two places at the same time. So by pinning down God you know where he is and that he can't be placed somewhere else at the same time - or you can know where he's going to be in a couple of seconds and that he can't be placed anywhere else at the same time, denying the omnipresent.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my fuzzy recollection tells me that something CAN be in two places at the same time, even ALL places at the same time. In order to do so, it must have either infinite mass or no mass, thus giving infinite volume. So, our god can either have infinite mass or none whatsoever.

If god had infinite mass, then you'd have god all over your shirt, and you wouldn't be able to clean it because your washing machine would be all gunked up with god. In fact, you wouldn't be able to walk to your washer because of all the god that's in the way. So god probably dosen't have infinite mass.

So, god can have no mass. If this is so, you get the question of whether you need mass to exist. One could argue that god's pure energy, but then you get the thing about energy consisting of mass also. So, does god exist in some other medium other than mass? I don't think we can know. But this would be the only way to make him omnipresent. Or, we could use edit the omnipresent part out of our definition of god (your personal choice, I guess).
Famine
Indeed it IS a finite number, but you do not know WHERE the electrons are. They don't orbit as you see in school textbooks. In fact, truth be told, they don't orbit AT ALL. Electrons exist in probability fields. They are more likely to be close to the nucleus they are associated with than they are to be at infinity, but they have a small probability of being at infinity. This means that, at any given moment, any electron associated with any nucleus could be at infinity. This means that atoms - nucleus + electrons - all have infinite size and are all in constant contact with each other.
Ya, I know about clouds and probability, maybe I should have said that electrons simply "exist" around the nucleus, instead of "orbit."

So, an "atom" has infinite size, but only by defining it as electrons + nucleus. This means that all atoms overlap. But, if I'm made of atoms, does that mean that I exist everywhere, and therefore am god, along with all other things that consist of atoms? That would mean that everything with mass has infinite volume, and therefore is godly.

Personally, I'd get rid of the "atom" thing entirely and simply go down to electrons and the nucleus, as these still have finite mass and volume. For the moment, I'm even going to ignore the nucleus completely, and stick to electrons.

So, the electrons have a probability of being anywhere. But we know for a fact that they are somewhere. So, the electron on the hydrogen atom sitting on my desk can be sitting on your desk, in your room, miles away. But then, it cannot be sitting next to the carbon atom that's next to it on my desk. It has a probability of being there in a second, but then it won't be on your desk anymore. So, as far as I understand it, electrons can be anywhere, but they can't exist everywhere at one moment.
Famine
Due to Christianity's definition of "God", one cannot physically prove God's existence, as to do so would be to disprove God's existence. The converse is ALSO true.
This certainly seems to be the case. But, in my humble opinion, definitions suck. Anyone can go on re-writing them all day, and we're not going to get anywhere. But it does make for some interesting conversation.
Famine
Anyone not currently scratching their heads hasn't fully read this post. I certainly am.
I think it's time to break out the dandruff shampoo.


And...as for the idea of the tsunami, It's kinda sad to think of the idea that God caused it. If god is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient (and exists), then there isn't any way to see it other than god made a tsunami, not just allowed it to happen. Looking at it this way, the only way to defend a "good" god is to say that by making a tsunami, something good happened. So, just because things were absolute crap here, things must have been really, really good somewhere else. I guess that the general response would be to say that the good thing happened to those 250,000 people, but who knows? The flip side of the argument would be that god doesn't exist, and things were just crap here; there isn't any order to the ups and downs of daily life. Just a thought.
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my fuzzy recollection tells me that something CAN be in two places at the same time, even ALL places at the same time. In order to do so, it must have either infinite mass or no mass, thus giving infinite volume. So, our god can either have infinite mass or none whatsoever.

If god had infinite mass, then you'd have god all over your shirt, and you wouldn't be able to clean it because your washing machine would be all gunked up with god. In fact, you wouldn't be able to walk to your washer because of all the god that's in the way. So god probably dosen't have infinite mass.

So, god can have no mass. If this is so, you get the question of whether you need mass to exist. One could argue that god's pure energy, but then you get the thing about energy consisting of mass also. So, does god exist in some other medium other than mass? I don't think we can know. But this would be the only way to make him omnipresent. Or, we could use edit the omnipresent part out of our definition of god (your personal choice, I guess).

Actually everything is in an infinite number of places at one time. This is where the idea of different dimentions comes into play.

I really don't think a supreme being is in the relem of our universe, which means they must be outside of it so the physics don't apply. This is where my idea of we (our universe) is part of something bigger.

Anyways I know my mom would be pretty mad if my work shirts got all covered in god and fried here washing machiene :lol:.

Also science can't prove god without entering a new relem of physics, which would disprove Newtonian physics. This is sort of the idea of Quantum Physics, but you would still have to modify a lot of that to.

In my opinion a supreme being can only be disproved by our physics or it must be out side the relem of our physics now.
 
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