Self-control, or a lack thereof.

[Afro1]

It seems like everyones self control has just dissapears when they play GT5.
Every other game you know that you can use a really powerful weapon or the more weaker one which will give you more fun.
Its like street fighter, you can choose Ken and throw hadokens all day long or you can choose someone more fun.

It's your choice but what annoys me is when someone blames PD for there lack of self control. It's simple: use a car in the same league as your opponents not a Zonda lol.

 

[machschnel]

It seems like everyones self control has just dissapears when they play GT5.
Every other game you know that you can use a really powerful weapon or the more weaker one which will give you more fun.
Its like street fighter, you can choose Ken and throw hadokens all day long or you can choose someone more fun.

It's your choice but what annoys me is when someone blames PD for there lack of self control. It's simple: use a car in the same league as your opponents not a Zonda lol.

That's the crux of the problem, you can't have fun in GT Life. When I know there is a car I want that is $20 000 000, how do I acquire that money the "fun way"?

 

[Afro1]

That's the crux of the problem, you can't have fun in GT Life. When I know there is a car I want that is $20 000 000, how do I acquire that money the "fun way"?

There cars which you get when it's your birthday so yeah...
The most expensive car which isnt a birthday car is the Citreon GT (5,600,000 and you win it anyway in B Spec).
Also remember seasonal events.

 

[machschnel]

There cars which you get when it's your birthday so yeah...
The most expensive car which isnt a birthday car is the Citreon GT (5,600,000 and you win it anyway in B Spec).
Also remember seasonal events.

What do you mean $5,600,000? I paid twice that for the F2010.

 

[Afro1]

Totally forgot about the F1. But there pretty much useless, cant use them in A Spec or online unless you change regulations.
Still don't make your point valid.

 

[machschnel]

Totally forgot about the F1. But there pretty much useless, cant use them in A Spec or online unless you change regulations.
Still don't make your point valid.

I hate to be the one to break it to you but..... there are cars costing upwards of $20,000,000 .

 

[Luminis]

Totally forgot about the F1. But there pretty much useless, cant use them in A Spec or online unless you change regulations.
Still don't make your point valid.

And i don't think your point is valid, wither. I mean, glitching to fix a problem with the fundamental design of the game?
That's like sayying MMORPGs don't consume a lot of time because you can buy a fully leveled character from ebay

 

[Afro1]

So what were you saying?
In every game I know you have a choice to play the game through easily or give yourself a fun challenge.
If you play Resident Evil you can choose pistol and knife or grenade launcher.
If you play Uncharted or Call of duty you can use boosters or not.
If you play Need for speed you can use that really fast lambo and speed past all the cops or whip out the dodge vipe and have the police trying to ram you off.

Don't try act like you don't know what I'm saying.

 

[Luminis]

Don't try act like you don't know what I'm saying.

I know what you're saying, I wa son about the idea to just birthday glitch to circumvent the grinding.

However, if you're looking at games like Resident Evil, playing it with only the knife and pistol, for example, will make it more challenging. Even if you decide to do it with all your weapons, it will still leave you with a bit of a challenge. GT5 does that on, what, two events?

You can make other games more chalenging. But you have to make GT5 challenging in the first place, all by yourself.

 

[sleeves345]

I agree that there should be more limitations on A-spec races: much like GT2, which frequently had HP limits and weight/size limits in additon to the tire/country/drivetrain limitations we have in GT5.

But even when i exercise self-control, i have problems. I just won an A-spec event (I forget the name of it, it was Expert-level though) with an almost-maxed Opel speedster turbo. It was very fun, and very challenging. I spent a lot of time tweaking settings and refining my driving. Ultimately, i was able to eek out a win after MANY a close race.
The problem I have: I was racing against 2 Zondas, a VW Nardo, a Corvette, and the ilk. I was about 200 HP beneath what all the other cars had. I'm not even a very good driver (compared to many of the people here on GTP).
Selecting a car that was "even" with the competition would have had me leaving them 5+ seconds in behind me.

I htink there really needs to be either: a difficulty slider or a whole lot more restrictions on races. Or just give us more of the seasonal events so i have more choices.

 

[Afro1]

I know what you're saying, I wa son about the idea to just birthday glitch to circumvent the grinding.

However, if you're looking at games like Resident Evil, playing it with only the knife and pistol, for example, will make it more challenging. Even if you decide to do it with all your weapons, it will still leave you with a bit of a challenge. GT5 does that on, what, two events?

You can make other games more chalenging. But you have to make GT5 challenging in the first place, all by yourself.

Its not a birthday glitch its just some user exploited the suprise.
And in RES you can easily just get the powerful weapons at the start its just most people who are smart choose not to and use the stuff they got.
Like GT5 you can buy the powerful cars at the start its just most people who are smart choose not to and use the cars they win and upgrade what they got.
Dont try it mate lol.

 

[machschnel]

Its not a birthday glitch its just some user exploited the suprise.
And in RES you can easily just get the powerful weapons at the start its just most people who are smart choose not to and use the stuff they got.
Like GT5 you can buy the powerful cars at the start its just most people who are smart choose not to and use the cars they win and upgrade what they got.
Dont try it mate lol.

Ok, what car/tune to I use to win Like The Wind Daytona by no more than 1 second?

See, what you describe is a logical fallacy. A knife will make the game harder than playing with a gun, no doubt, but there are no variables involved. In order to answer the above question (which is impossible by the way), you'd have to know my skill level, something that isn't relevant in Resident Evil

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I read a lot on here about how 'a-spec is ruined' because you can enter a car that is overpowered and decimate the competition, making the game far too easy. Well here's how I view it.

Notice how there is no difficulty option? You can't adjust the difficulty of the AI drivers etc. What you can adjust however is the vehicle you choose to enter, the state of tune, the tires (notice how in a-spec tires are open, b-spec not so). So if you lack self-control and enter a car way over classed, then yes of course you will win. And by some distance. But who's cheating who here? Why not show some self-control and enter a car that is similarly powered? Or for a challenge of your driving ability, a car that is underpowered?

Getting difficulty levels right for game producers must be a nightmare. There will always be those that say it's too difficult, those that like it, and those that say it's too easy. Out of three camps, you'll only ever please one. But what I think PD have done here is set the level of the AI for the individual race and then allowed us to decide just how difficult the race will be.

A bonus to this is that by simply increasing the power of your car, you are not automatically making it easier for yourself, as leading by 30sec will make you lazy, leading to stupid crashes, and also bore you. So this encourages you to learn to drive the cars better with less power, actually improving your driving technique rather than relying on an out and out power advantage.

Or I could just be waffling. Or I could have missed this from a thread a month ago. But whatever, it works for me.

(Oh, and by 'driving ability' and 'technique', I'm obviously just referring to 'in-game'.)

THANK YOU! I wish more new players showing here at GTP had your philosophy, onearmedbandit. Can we clone you? lol.

Another point to make is that all the gamers out there who simply go "well there's no rule saying I can't cheat by overkilling, so I'm going to cheat" are really cheating themselves in the long run, because they're not going to learn all the subtle techniques necessary to tackling GT5's tracks and getting cleanly around GT5's Ai.

So these cheaters will wind up blowing away the B and A-spec races, no problem. But when they start getting to the really hard stuff, all a sudden they'll have no idea what they're supposed to do to survive.

...Then they'll become part of the long, long list of drivers who has shown up here at GTP "how do I win the World Cup" or whatever.

 

[Afro1]

Ok, what car/tune to I use to win Like The Wind Daytona by no more than 1 second?

See, what you describe is a logical fallacy. A knife will make the game harder than playing with a gun, no doubt, but there are no variables involved. In order to answer the above question (which is impossible by the way), you'd have to know my skill level, something that isn't relevant in Resident Evil

Go get a car which is near the same BHP as the highest typcal opponent, what do you think?
See what yuo describe is knowing your wrong but trying so hard to back up your point when theres nothing to back it up with.
And skill is required in RES, go try complete the 1st game with only 1 life and no powerful weapons and limited ammo.

 

[Luminis]

Its not a birthday glitch its just some user exploited the suprise.
And in RES you can easily just get the powerful weapons at the start its just most people who are smart choose not to and use the stuff they got.
Like GT5 you can buy the powerful cars at the start its just most people who are smart choose not to and use the cars they win and upgrade what they got.
Dont try it mate lol.

You don't get it, do you? Even if you're getting the best weapons right from the start, the game will challenge you at one point.
See, it's like playing Street Fighter. You can choose can and throw hadokens all day long. Gran Turismo is different.

In that case, you're starting with five times the health of your opponent and have to just sit there and let him clobber you until you're at 20% before it becomes a fair fight.

It's not about whether you can make GT5 challenging or not, because you absolutely can.
It's about the fact that you have to try pretty hard to make this game challenging.

Looking at your Resident Evil example, you'd have to get something you wouldn't have at the beginning of the game to make it easy.
GT5 is easy by just using what you're normally having in the game and you have to go out of your way to change that. That's the problem.

You know, in most games, you'd have to use a cheat to activate a god mode. In GT it's the opposite. You have to 'cheat' to get rid of your god mode! Got it know?

 

[Gohon]

The problem i have with this is that while most people on GTP will restrict themselves to save Cr or for more enjoyment, most casual players wont.

I was about 12 when i played GT2, and i was very happy taking my toyota GT-ONE '98 to the Sunday Cup. Why not? At that age i DID NOT have the maturity to challenge myself and just wanted to win no matter how easy it was.

When GT4 come out i would have been 16ish and still i would happly take my Nissan R92CP to the Sunday Cup, however i got much more enjoyment from finally beating Mission 34, although plenty of frustration. But i still did not have the mental maturity to challenge myself even though i found it more rewarding. I needed the game to put restrictions on me to increase my enjoyment.

I would say the same goes for almost every casual gamer who doesn't really like racing games, but his friend says it is amazing and has bought the game to find out what all the fuss is about.

 

[Luminis]

The problem i have with this is that while most people on GTP will restrict themselves to save Cr or for more enjoyment, most casual players wont.

I was about 12 when i played GT2, and i was very happy taking my toyota GT-ONE '98 to the Sunday Cup. Why not? At that age i DID NOT have the maturity to challenge myself and just wanted to win no matter how easy it was.

When GT4 come out i would have been 16ish and still i would happly take my Nissan R92CP to the Sunday Cup, however i got much more enjoyment from finally beating Mission 34, although plenty of frustration. But i still did not have the mental maturity to challenge myself even though i found it more rewarding. I needed the game to put restrictions on me to increase my enjoyment.

I would say the same goes for almost every casual gamer who doesn't really like racing games, but his friend says it is amazing and has bought the game to find out what all the fuss is about.

You're right. While I don't think that that's necessarily a bad thing at the beginning of the game, it'd be good if GT5 had something like a learning curve so people actually advanced from being casual gamers to proper racers, so to speak.

 

[Gran_Turismo]

I read a lot on here about how 'a-spec is ruined' because you can enter a car that is overpowered and decimate the competition, making the game far too easy. Well here's how I view it.

Notice how there is no difficulty option? You can't adjust the difficulty of the AI drivers etc. What you can adjust however is the vehicle you choose to enter, the state of tune, the tires (notice how in a-spec tires are open, b-spec not so). So if you lack self-control and enter a car way over classed, then yes of course you will win. And by some distance. But who's cheating who here? Why not show some self-control and enter a car that is similarly powered? Or for a challenge of your driving ability, a car that is underpowered?

Getting difficulty levels right for game producers must be a nightmare. There will always be those that say it's too difficult, those that like it, and those that say it's too easy. Out of three camps, you'll only ever please one. But what I think PD have done here is set the level of the AI for the individual race and then allowed us to decide just how difficult the race will be.

A bonus to this is that by simply increasing the power of your car, you are not automatically making it easier for yourself, as leading by 30sec will make you lazy, leading to stupid crashes, and also bore you. So this encourages you to learn to drive the cars better with less power, actually improving your driving technique rather than relying on an out and out power advantage.

Or I could just be waffling. Or I could have missed this from a thread a month ago. But whatever, it works for me.

(Oh, and by 'driving ability' and 'technique', I'm obviously just referring to 'in-game'.)

The player making the competition for themselves? That would actually bore most people. A-Spec mode are not player created races. Its suppose to have limitations and rules, like GT4 had, but PD didn't care about that. Heck they actually managed to have not only MUCH LESS races to compete in, but much less INTERESTING ones. 5+ years of dev time and they made a worse GT Mode than the last game?


I... I just don't even...

 

[Afro1]

You don't get it, do you? Even if you're getting the best weapons right from the start, the game will challenge you at one point.
See, it's like playing Street Fighter. You can choose can and throw hadokens all day long. Gran Turismo is different.

In that case, you're starting with five times the health of your opponent and have to just sit there and let him clobber you until you're at 20% before it becomes a fair fight.

It's not about whether you can make GT5 challenging or not, because you absolutely can.
It's about the fact that you have to try pretty hard to make this game challenging.

Looking at your Resident Evil example, you'd have to get something you wouldn't have at the beginning of the game to make it easy.
GT5 is easy by just using what you're normally having in the game and you have to go out of your way to change that. That's the problem.

You know, in most games, you'd have to use a cheat to activate a god mode. In GT it's the opposite. You have to 'cheat' to get rid of your god mode! Got it know?

What are you on about mate?
GT5 dosent give you all the fast cars and then forces you to buy slow cars to have a challenge. It just gives you an option of buying fast cars when you get enough money. Why do you think they added the level system on the cars then? So it can stop people getting hold of the fast cars at low levels of the game.

Honestly, you don't get it. You're in your own world.

Also I hope you know this is my last post on this topic. I'm not going to continue arguing with a guy who refuses to listen to the truth.
Goodluck finding how to deactivate god mode.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I've lost count of how many times I've repeated this in the threads since the release of GT5.

The problems here and which reverberate through many of the threads, are PD's doing.
They installed an encumbrance oriented system to stall the player through an inadequate A-spec single player.

They foolishly abandoned the best structured difficulty system ever devised in a racing game, the A-spec point system from GT4.

The potential of this system if implemented properly, along with some elementary restrictions in GT5 would have eliminated most if not all of this confusion and frustration.
At the same time it would leave the difficulty open ended, without grinding in the narrow pipeline of the brainless levelup system.

The credit system has got to be the worst ever in a GT game and further frustrates the process.

 

[Stigsblkcousin]

That's the crux of the problem, you can't have fun in GT Life. When I know there is a car I want that is $20 000 000, how do I acquire that money the "fun way"?

By doing all the challenging stuff first and saving your money. Which gets back to the point of self control, or the lack thereof.

Why must you to have the $20 000 000 car NOW? Where are you going to race it where its not totally overpowering the opponents?

 

[Luminis]

What are you on about mate?
GT5 dosent give you all the fast cars and then forces you to buy slow cars to have a challenge. It just gives you an option of buying fast cars when you get enough money. Why do you think they added the level system on the cars then? So it can stop people getting hold of the fast cars at low levels of the game.

Honestly, you don't get it. You're in your own world.

Have you taken a look at the levels that are required to enter the events? If I entered with the best cars I could buy at that level, I'd be slaughterin the opposition with incredible ease. At worst, your car will be equal to the AI, which will allow for an easy win.

Take a stock Eunos Roadster to the Sunday Cup and you'll get it.
Or better yet, a McLaren F1 (lvl 17) to the PD Cup (lvl 19), where the Nissan GT-R (lvl 11) is about the fastest car you'll meet out on the track.

If I wanted a challenge in the PD Cup, I'd have to buy something that's considerably worse than what the AI is driving, that's the problem.

 

[Devedander]

You must be on a religious mission or something.

Just come over it if you don't like cocking about in GT5 - others, including me, do have a blast doing so.

There was the tradition of 250 A-spec pts. races, where do you think that came from?

Oh, and there is the internet. I can't beat race X in my cock-omotive (aka M3 CSL), can John Doe? No? Then add a dash of bhp and run again. See, internet + people talking + trial and error: isn't that great?

But, really dude, try have some fun with GT5 and don't play always for the (certain) win - winning is so boring after a while.

Did you read the post at all? I absolutely enjoy the challenge... the problem is I (and i don't think anyone) enjoys grinding an unwinnable matchup. And that's why the restrictions were so great, you knew it wasn't uniwnnable but it sure was challening. It meant the hours of trying again and again, tuning this and tweaking that were for a goal you know was possible. Without the pre figured restrictions it's just an annoying process of potential time wasting if it turns out you really can't win with that car.

It's hilarious you think you will get my goat insinuating that I only tune to certain victory.... I am about the polar opposite... I always take a car stock to the race first and only upgrade a bit at a time... problem is, you can't know when you NEED to upgrade... it's pretty much impossible to hit the perfect tune that makes the race almost uwinnable but still doable if you really step up your a game.

Which is exactly what I said if you would bother to actaully read my post and not feel the need to jump on the insult wagon as if I couldn't comprehend the situation... the irony being you clearly don't understand it.

Read my sig... then holnestly answer how long it would have taken you by trial and error to arrive at some of the restrictions on teh seasonal championships... how many tries would it have taken you to come up with the focus challenge by randomly trying and testing restrictions... just to win it took many people hours. To test random tunes until you came up with that... would be weeks mostly likely.

The seasonal events with restrictions listed were the only places to get this kind of challenge cleany (outside the occasional super lucky online race). Those who just want to tune their ways up to a win, that's fine, all of aspec, practice and arcade are there for that... seasonal challenge was where it was done right for the other group... and that's why it sucks that it's gone.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I see this very simply. Motorsport is all about finding ANY way to go faster than your opponents abiding by the rules of the competition (well sometimes aka f1). So if there are no restrictions why would you go against natural instict and create your own challenge. I payed money to be given a challnge by experts, not do it myself. Very easy to sort, either have a bhp limit for races (aka earlier gts) or roughly match the bhp of ai to your car. End of story

Right. Just don't come here complaining when you start getting bored, or get to some more difficult races and all a sudden get stuck because you don't know all the finer points of GT racing. You could have learned all these finer points of cornering, braking point, et cetera, but you (instead) chose to overkill the game with your horsepower.

Therefore, you'll be good at tacking horsepower to your car, but not so good with using it once the going really gets tough.

The player making the competition for themselves? That would actually bore most people.

Ah, but how do you know if you haven't tried?

Personally, I'd rather be "bored" (as you put it) as I'm surrounded by other cars, fighting my way to the front, my pulse racing and my adrenaline pumping.

 

[Stigsblkcousin]

It seems to me that most people just don't want to think for themselves, they just want the game to tell them what to do.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

It seems to me that most people just don't want to think for themselves, they just want the game to tell them what to do.

Yup, this. Also, I think a lot of people (a lot of newer people showing up here, especially) know nothing about the passion of motorsports. They actually don't want to be challenged...they're just after the next prize and whatever credits they can find. If the game doesn't automatically offer any challenge, they start blaming PD instead of trying to rectify the situation, and it CAN be rectified. Easily.

I can remember way back in my GT1 days. Once I found out it's possible to look up every car's weight & power in the pre-race line up, I was all about trying to make a similar situation for whatever car I was driving. 💡 I was after the rush, basically.

 

[Devedander]

It seems to me that most people just don't want to think for themselves, they just want the game to tell them what to do.

No, I like thinking for myself, I like figuring out how to beat the puzzle, I just don't like pointless grinds against potentially unbeatable puzzles.

I bought the game, I paid for someone else to set the puzzles up for me to beat. If I wanted to do the grunt work MAKING puzzles it wouldn't matter.

I like doing crossword puzzles, I just don't want to be given a bunch of blank squares and have to grind out what words happen to fit... especially if a lot of words just can't possibly fit but there is almost no way to be certain.... let someone else make sure it's possible, then hand it to me to figure out how. THAT'S a challenge and entertainment.

What it seems to me is that most people don't really comprehend what seasonal challenges offered... I don't mean it in an elitest way, but I think a lot of people just don't grasp and appreciate the challenge they posed... it's fine if that's not what you are into, but don't try to act like it's not a valid thing for someone else to be into.

 

[ItsHim]

That tradition came from A-Spec points being in the game, serving as an indicator to how difficult the race actually was.

I wouldn't mind a level field nor the good old A-spec points either. It's not in the game (yet?), so I got over it and carried on.

Wait, you're saying that you have to got to the internet, search for a specific thread dealing with a specific event and hope that someone who's roughly on your skill level has already done the event with a decent car to provide a challenge and shares that information? And that that's supposed to be a good thing?!

It's called sharing a hobby, talking shop, being a petrol head, whatever. I can recall the time where you went on the internet to share opinions, help each other and consume porn. Well some things never change fortunately.

I won't call the status quo perfect in even the widest sense, but all I can see on GTP is people complaining and two threads that are actually helpful (the price car thread and the UCD thread).

Off your backsides and lay the foundations of a "close shave race guide" rather than endlessly criticize this feature or the lack of another.

So yes, actually having something to talk about other how PD ruined the game would make for a nice change.

Besides, I was never afraid coming fourth or 12th if I had a good race and could fight for my position. I don't have to win all the time to have a good time and I'm not afraid to try out uncertain races.

 

[Devedander]

It's called sharing a hobby, talking shop, being a petrol head, whatever. I can recall the time where you went on the internet to share opinions, help each other and consume porn. Well some things never change fortunately.

You know how a lot of cameras now have flip out screens to frame a really odd angle shot? Like you can shoot over a crowd or up from the floor in a cramped spot?

I remember talking to some guys and they didn't like this... they always talked about the enjoyment of blindshooting over a crowd and seeing what kind of shot you got... I know some people who don't like 4GB cards becauae they miss the days of 35mm where every shot counted because when you ran out you were out...

It's an irrational attachment to the an irrational rationlization you made for shortcomings of the past... just because it used to be that way and you found a way to enjoy it then doesn't mean it was necessarily better...

 

[Luminis]

Off your backsides and lay the foundations of a "close shave race guide" rather than endlessly criticize this feature or the lack of another.

Problem with this is the following:
I'll use the PD Cup as an example. You prepare a car to be closely matched to ge GT-R '07 the AI is running, even accounting for the AI's slow pace. You then start the race only to find that it's not participating and the second fastest car is still way inferior.
Furthermore, nine times out of ten, you'll be competing with a 'rabbit car' only, either way.

And the fact that you'd even need a guide like that is testimony to the problem we're facing, in my opinion.