Senna content coming soon?

[fortbo]

Cant wait for the senna content! Hope it delivers!

Deliver what? Pizza?

 

[Samus]

I would love to do a Senna vs Prost race in GT6 or 7.

They should add more F1 cars and supercars in the updates/GT7.

It's already been explained why they can't happen. Not unless PD manage to take the F1 license away from Codemasters.

 

[PaMu1337]

It's already been explained why they can't happen. Not unless PD manage to take the F1 license away from Codemasters.

But somehow they managed to do Hunt vs Lauda in Forza 5, so maybe there is a possibility to do this without the F1 license.

 

[MatheusBond]

But somehow they managed to do Hunt vs Lauda in Forza 5, so maybe there is a possibility to do this without the F1 license.

They had the Rush movie licence.

 

[Samus]

But somehow they managed to do Hunt vs Lauda in Forza 5, so maybe there is a possibility to do this without the F1 license.

Like I said before, that seems to have been a special exception license related to the Rush movie.

If anyone can find ANY game with official F1 cars (not mods) from different teams racing each other on a track barring the one above exception then I'd believe my theory was wrong. Until then, I'm pretty sure it's the case. You can't race cars from two or more teams of the same season without a license from Bernie.

It's a shame, but it seems to me that's how it is.

 

[VXR]

Surely the older cars, when in private hands don't come under the F1 license?

 

[Samus]

Surely the older cars, when in private hands don't come under the F1 license?

Alone, no. Plenty of racing games have old F1 cars, but the key point is they're all from the same team, or the same car. If you have two or more cars racing from different teams that counts as a Formula 1 race and for that you need a Formula 1 license.

Also the owner of the car today is irrelevent. You still need to license them from the team themselves, for example the Lotus coming to GT6 will be licensed from Classic Team Lotus, not the Senna Foundation. They don't have the rights to that car.

 

[86Debris86]

If anyone can find ANY game with official F1 cars (not mods) from different teams racing each other on a track barring the one above exception then I'd believe my theory was wrong. Until then, I'm pretty sure it's the case. You can't race cars from two or more teams of the same season without a license from Bernie.

It's a shame, but it seems to me that's how it is.

I was going to try and be a smart arse and post a link to the F1 Race Stars website but then I remembered Codemasters made that too.

 

[Samus]

Obviously I can only guess what the deal is based on evidence from other games, but I'd summise the following:

1. A solo car from any F1 team of any year hotlapping - Fine, not a "Formula 1" race
2. A solo car from any F1 team of any year racing clones of itself - Fine, not a "Formula 1" race
3. Two or more different cars from one F1 team of any year racing each other - Fine, not a "Formula 1" race
4. A solo car from one team and a solo car from another team hotlapping, unable to race each other - Fine, not a "Formula 1" race
5. A solo car from one team of any year and a solo car from another team of any year racing - Unknown, haven't seen this scenario myself
6. A car from one team of a set year racing a car from another team of that same year - "Formula 1 Racing", you need a license from Bernie/FOM.

That would be my guess. Obviously again, that Rush license seems to be the exception but who knows the fine details of that.

 

[MatheusBond]

Pretty sure the 5th case is what the classic cars in F1 2013 are all about.

 

[RACECAR]

I could be wrong, but I also believe Ferrari is supposedly the only one free of the F1 stipulation.

 

[Samus]

Pretty sure the 5th case is what the classic cars in F1 2013 are all about.

Well no, because they were under the official F1 license. I meant it's unknown in that I've never seen a game without a license do it, but I'm not sure if one exists.

I could be wrong, but I also believe Ferrari is supposedly the only one free of the F1 stipulation.

Free in what sense? You can license any official F1 car direct from the manufacturer without a license from Bernie as far as I know (SimRaceWay had the 2013 McLaren in the game last season), they still can't race cars from other teams without one.

EDIT: Here is SimRaceway adding the 2013 McLaren in June 2013 - http://blog.simraceway.com/2013/06/car-mclaren-mp4-28/

 

[Akira AC]

Aren't you all confusing "reserved rights" to "use license"?

AFAIK is more like Codemasters having the license of making a career based on the FIA championship, with FIA licensed tracks and trademarks. Not having say "rights reserved" to the content itself, hence why FM5 has the McLaren and why GT6 now has the Lotus.

Basically is down to whoever is in charge of the car's license for each car, hence why PD had the F10 back in GT5 and the F2007 in GT 5 prologue, it had the license for Ferrari and Ferrari owns the rights for their use.

Is a murky issue, I don't understand it well myself but it goes down to having certain types of racing, say GT4 had the F1 championship disguised as "world championship series", in that sense it didn't use FIA's name as such but it applied very similar rules. Same can be Said about TOCA 3 having the several F1 cars running on similar F1 rules (each using a different livery but under the same basic car, which if I'm not mistaken those were the FW11, FW14 and the FW28. Each one having their own 80's/90's and 00's open wheel championships).

 

[Samus]

Don't know what you're saying with the first part but yes, as far as I know you can go to any F1 team, ask them to licence one of their F1 cars and there you go, job done. F1 car in your game. That is indeed how all these single cars have appeared in a variety of games and you can hotlap or race them against each other.

What I believe you can't do is go to McLaren and license say their 2010 F1 car then go to Ferrari and license their 2010 F1 car and then let them race each other in your game. If you do that you're creating a Formula 1 Race and to replicate those you need a license from F1 license holders.

GT4 was murky waters indeed, technically those cars were all fictional without real licenses so there could be no hint of a Formula 1 race but we all know they closely resembled real cars. That is perhaps why they disappeared afterwards, because they got in hot water.

Toca 3 you said yourself, they were all Williams. That is the same situation as GT5 with the Ferrari, as long as they're all from the same team it doesn't count as a "Formula 1 Race". I put that in quotes because there is obviously a legal definition as to what a Formula 1 race is and what it isn't.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I was under the impression that FOM only has the rights to Formula One after 1980, which is when the World Drivers Championship and World Constructors Championship became the Formula One World Driver's Championship and Contructors Championship respectively.

I know that at least as far as TV rights are concerned, there isn't any restrictions on TV showing pre-1980 grand prix highlights. I assume that Forza exclusively has the M23 and 312T because of the licensing with Rush, but I don't know that there's anything preventing PD from taking any other two cars from the same year if they wanted to.

 

[Samus]

I was under the impression that FOM only has the rights to Formula One after 1980, which is when the World Drivers Championship and World Constructors Championship became the Formula One World Driver's Championship and Contructors Championship respectively.

I know that at least as far as TV rights are concerned, there isn't any restrictions on TV showing pre-1980 grand prix highlights. I assume that Forza exclusively has the M23 and 312T because of the licensing with Rush, but I don't know that there's anything preventing PD from taking any other two cars from the same year if they wanted to.

I'm not sure on that one, I'd assumed it counted as far back as 1950 but you may be right. All I do know is what I said earlier, with that Forza exception I don't know of any game depicting two different F1 cars from the same year racing each other without an F1 license which would logically suggest it's not possible, rather than just nobody having done it yet.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I'm not sure on that one, I'd assumed it counted as far back as 1950 but you may be right. All I do know is what I said earlier, with that Forza exception I don't know of any game depicting two different F1 cars from the same year racing each other without an F1 license which would logically suggest it's not possible, rather than just nobody having done it yet.

Grand Prix Legends?

 

[tbone_2004]

Spa, Monaco, Brands Hatch, Nurburgring, Monza

And here's hoping for Interlagos and Adelaide.

 

[Samus]

Grand Prix Legends?

I thought about that but when I looked it up I couldn't find any conclusive evidence whether they had anything to do with F1/FOM or not. I can see they licensed the cars directly from the manufacturers and couldn't get a couple of them though, which might suggest you're right.

Still, that means we're out of luck when it comes to anything Senna raced in.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I thought about that but when I looked it up I couldn't find any conclusive evidence whether they had anything to do with F1/FOM or not. I can see they licensed the cars directly from the manufacturers and couldn't get a couple of them though, which might suggest you're right.

Still, that means we're out of luck when it comes to anything Senna raced in.

Indeed. A time trial really looks most likely. I never saw PD as much of an open wheeler game frankly, it makes the lack of damage modelling more jarring.

Assuming it is just the 97T as far as F1 content goes, they could include his 1983 Formula 3 car, or go to the effort to model his first kart track. As I suggested earlier, Suzuka West and an NSX could be done. That could be passed off as tracing his career.

What tracks are in the game that Senna driven on with this Lotus ?

There's been a few listed, but there aren't any in the identical configuration currently in the game.

 

[spencer7x7]

And here's hoping for Interlagos and Adelaide.

If they DO manage to add Interlagos, it won't be free. It will only be for that event and if people want to race on that track other than the event, they have to pay for the track. Some proceeds of the track sale might go to the Senna Institute.

At least that's what I think, PD is never this generous. I doubt it will be free.

 

[Akira AC]

Don't know what you're saying with the first part but yes, as far as I know you can go to any F1 team, ask them to licence one of their F1 cars and there you go, job done. F1 car in your game. That is indeed how all these single cars have appeared in a variety of games and you can hotlap or race them against each other.

What I believe you can't do is go to McLaren and license say their 2010 F1 car then go to Ferrari and license their 2010 F1 car and then let them race each other in your game. If you do that you're creating a Formula 1 Race and to replicate those you need a license from F1 license holders.

GT4 was murky waters indeed, technically those cars were all fictional without real licenses so there could be no hint of a Formula 1 race but we all know they closely resembled real cars. That is perhaps why they disappeared afterwards, because they got in hot water.

Toca 3 you said yourself, they were all Williams. That is the same situation as GT5 with the Ferrari, as long as they're all from the same team it doesn't count as a "Formula 1 Race". I put that in quotes because there is obviously a legal definition as to what a Formula 1 race is and what it isn't.

My first part is a reference to some people's assumptions of having a F1 type race in GT6. Since there is no clear distinction of what makes an "F1 racing like event" and why there has been some games touching the line in that regard.

Other than that, and as far as I know each maker is responsible on who they want to give their "rights" to showcase A or B vehicle to A or B company.

Is really odd, I don't understand it myself because logic dictates that you could have two cars (i.e. a Ferrari and a McLaren) from the same time if you have a Ferrari and a McLaren license to reproduce them both, then comes the issue of racing each other, because if you do then you could do it in a way that it doesn't reproduce an F1 event (say a race held in Apricot Raceway instead of Suzuka) it wouldn't be a breaking of say Codemaster's "reserved rights" to race two different cars from the F1 racing series because they are not racing under the same conditions that makes an F1 event.

I know no company would dare because of the relative costs that a lawsuit might follow if it gets into those grounds of violating those terms by violating the "reserved rights" that Codemasters have on the F1 license.


Is a mess, just as much as the mystery surrounding EA and the Porsche License, I don't know if they have all virtual Porsche cars under a "use license", or they have a "rights reserved" license over Porsche. And if so how MS managed to get those licenses for FM1 -> FM3, and how Ruf can accept their use even though in shape are essentially the same cars except for a badge.

It's an unknown issue for me as I have no idea what the basis for property works for this kind of thing.

 

[tbone_2004]

If they DO manage to add Interlagos, it won't be free. It will only be for that event and if people want to race on that track other than the event, they have to pay for the track. Some proceeds of the track sale might go to the Senna Institute.

At least that's what I think, PD is never this generous. I doubt it will be free.

I'll GLADLY pay 5 or 10 bucks for Interlagos. You get what you pay for, right?

 

[Quakebass]

If they actually manage to get the sound anywhere close to that, I'll wear one of those silly horse heads and post for everyone to see.

Look at my profile picture.

Now look at these.











You will not impress me.

I will get back on topic now I apologize.

 

[RACECAR]

Well no, because they were under the official F1 license. I meant it's unknown in that I've never seen a game without a license do it, but I'm not sure if one exists.



Free in what sense? You can license any official F1 car direct from the manufacturer without a license from Bernie as far as I know (SimRaceWay had the 2013 McLaren in the game last season), they still can't race cars from other teams without one.

EDIT: Here is SimRaceway adding the 2013 McLaren in June 2013 - http://blog.simraceway.com/2013/06/car-mclaren-mp4-28/

I could've sworn that at a PD release Party ( I believe it was for GT5 and Jordan was there in spain for it.), it was said that Ferrari was the only one not bound by the F1 license. Maybe things changed since then, but I remember an article on GTP that mentioned this.

Look at my profile picture.
Now look at these.
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You will not impress me.

I've got 9 others in line to see me embarrass myself though so I'm not worried

 

[ShiftingGears]

Is really odd, I don't understand it myself because logic dictates that you could have two cars (i.e. a Ferrari and a McLaren) from the same time if you have a Ferrari and a McLaren license to reproduce them both, then comes the issue of racing each other, because if you do then you could do it in a way that it doesn't reproduce an F1 event (say a race held in Apricot Raceway instead of Suzuka) it wouldn't be a breaking of say Codemaster's "reserved rights" to race two different cars from the F1 racing series because they are not racing under the same conditions that makes an F1 event.

I am pretty sure anything constituting a race involving two F1 cars from the same year would be a breach.

 

[Samus]

I am pretty sure anything constituting a race involving two F1 cars from the same year would be a breach.

Exactly.

I'm pretty sure legally a "Formula 1 race" would be any two cars from the same season racing each other, irrespective of where it is.

I could've sworn that at a PD release Party ( I believe it was for GT5 and Jordan was there in spain for it.), it was said that Ferrari was the only one not bound by the F1 license. Maybe things changed since then, but I remember an article on GTP that mentioned this.

Perhaps, they're certainly not the only ones since then. There are the Mclarens in SRW and a Marussia in iRacing.

 

[RACECAR]

Perhaps, they're certainly not the only ones since then. There are the Mclarens in SRW and a Marussia in iRacing.

Marussia? I thought that was in rFactor 2, I believe iRacing has the Williams Toyota (FW31 if I recall).

 

[sepulturite81]

Like I said before, that seems to have been a special exception license related to the Rush movie.

If anyone can find ANY game with official F1 cars (not mods) from different teams racing each other on a track barring the one above exception then I'd believe my theory was wrong. Until then, I'm pretty sure it's the case. You can't race cars from two or more teams of the same season without a license from Bernie.

It's a shame, but it seems to me that's how it is.

Might be all different when Bernie goes to prison

 

[Swagger897]

Might be all different when Bernie goes to prison

Or dead....


Because, you have to expect it sometime.