Sense of speed in GT5 (Sound)

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Vesartis
I think the problem is that you don't have peripheral vision like in real life. Other games use ridiculous motion bluring and shaking cameras to try to make it more frantic, but it doesn't really feel that much faster. I would imagine using a triple screen setup would make GT feel realisticly fast. In real life you can see everything rushing by out of the corner of your eye.

I don't think the sound really effects the sense of speed too much. Especially in this trailer, it didn't help to much. What gave you the sense of speed was the shaky camera angles, which makes you kinda sick.

The only thing sound wise that I feel got turned down a bit in GT5 was the wind noise. That is something you can really hear in real life. I wish it were more pronounced. I hear a good stereo helps, but I have to use the TV speakers.
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the Interceptor
Generating a proper sense of speed in a game is not easy. The thing that gives me the biggest feedback of the speed in the real world is the car behaving differently. I feel the front of my car getting lighter, and bumps unsettle the car much more. Since I don't feel that in the game, it has to give me a feeling for speed by other means.

And still, most driving games I have come across provide a better sense of speed than Gran Turismo does, even if there are no artificial effects involved. I don't know why this is exactly. I suspect the superclean, almost aseptic graphics of GT to be the reason. I think that the sense of speed is slightly better in GT5 compared to earlier GTs though.
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What these two said.

Always found NFS series ammped up the bluring and everything else so it looked faster. But in actual reality (and this is from someone who does quite a few track days and has been in a few cars that crack 140/150mph) its pretty close.

You have to remember that that track (looked like Panorama Mountain?) had closed walls which were close to the car and that always makes you fee like your going faster. If you go on most tracks the walls and other bits are further away from the track so the feeling of speed isn't so pronounced. If you need an example of this drive on any track on GT5 and then go on the Nurburgring. Wide, Narrow.

Plus the bloody camera was moving about all the bloody time in that trailer.
 
I just noticed something else in that video. The driver looks into the corners while turning that is too cool.

But back to my original point. I've driven 150mph and it's nothing like in GT5. The difference between 50mph and 150mph is barely noticeable in GT. One thing that GT5 has never taken into account is the sound of things as you pass by them. Like if you pass by a pole going 100mph, there would be a loud pffft sound. That is not present in GT. In real life there were so many sounds happening. Every sign post, tree, bridge, would make a different wind sound as I passed by it.

I agree that in real life you are scared of crashing and dying which is why in GT we don't get that sensation. But after watching that shift video, I was instantly reminded of my 150mph run.

I'm gonna have to play the final game to judge, but NFS has always had incredible sounds.
 
I don't think GT5 gets anything wrong other than that it indeed lacks the fear of crashing and feeling of being in the car.

A couple of years ago I was on a mini road trip with a friend of mine and at one point we passed through a narrow gravel road with lots of elevation differences and tight corners. I know the road pretty well (I was driving) and the speed was around 60-70 km/h for the most part. I was actually afraid that we wouldn't make a couple of the corners and my friend was gripping the seat with his left hand, with the right hand he held a camera on the dashboard - the entire run went to the tape.

When we watched the video it looked like someone was pushing (as in physically pushing the car forward, not "pushing" in the race driver way) the car on a flat road. No sense of speed, no sense of elevation changes, nothing. In my opinion GT5 gives better feeling of speed that that video... and that video was real life being recorded.
 
I really feel I'm going pretty slow at 70MPH, in real life it feels so much faster, I would like the screen edge to blur, to give the appeal your going faster. I remember a game I used to play having that, I think it was called Enthusia.
 
BrettTheThreat
I think what he's saying is many other racing games use a wider field of view than GT5 does in order to show more of your surroundings.

If compared to a camera, the human eye has a "focal length" of about 50 mm, anything less than that is considered "wide." When you use a really short focal length, the center of image is fine, but the perimeters tend to get distorted and stretched. Try some really wide-angle shots in photomode and you'll see what I mean. So when you're playing a game with a wider field of view, not only do you see your surroundings rushing past, but the things in your "peripheral vision" (ie. the stuff on the edges of the screen) is being stretched AND blurred. But in GT5 where the field of view is similar to the human eye, we're missing out on all that extra information from our peripheral because the game isn't adjusting for it.

Nothing in this post should be taken as fact and you would be ill-advised to take it as such.
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That's exactly what's I mean, thank you for your well explain & sorry for my poor english....
just talk more, the video in the first post by OP, can see the track very narrow, that's mean object on the track side get closer to driver,but most of the track in GT5 are wide race track, the effect are the same under the same visual theory. Narrow track visually equal to a wider track under a wide angle.
A good example is driving a Kart in GT5 using cockpit view,
because the sit position is nearly laying on the ground with no boundary , the distance between the eye and the road surface are much closer then a normal car, so the sense of speed is also much more then when we driving a normal car under the same speed.
 
Up the sense of speed by adding a feature that will delete your game save if you crash in a way that should kill you..
 
That NFS clip did sound good, the sounds in GT5 could be better. Any motoring fan loves the sound of a throbbing engine revving, valves bouncing, exhaust popping, flames spitting, engine in it's full range of tones. As much as I am a GT fan even I can say it is not there.
All those saying it is good enough, yes it is fine the game has so many pluses that the sound seems like a smaller part than what it normally is. However if it sounded like that clip, and PD could put even a touch of their details like they have in the physics and modelling, the game would be even more immersive.

Cars are as much about their sound as anything else, imagine an American muscle car if it sounded like a 2 stroke lawnmower, and they never had that deep throb and the odd over run from un-burnt fuel. they would not be seen in the same light/ high regard they are.

Deeper post than 1st thought, just really wanted to say NFS sounded good :)
 
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3thanol
That NFS clip did sound good, the sounds in GT5 could be better. Any motoring fan loves the sound of a throbbing engine revving, valves bouncing, exhaust popping, flames spitting, engine in it's full range of tones. as much as I am a GT fan even I can say it has been an over looked part of the game.

All those saying it is good enough, yes it is fine the game has so many pluses that the sound seems like a smaller part than what it normally is. However if it sounded like that clip, and PD could put even a touch of their details like they have in the physics and modelling, the game would be even more immersive.

Cars are as much about their sound as anything else, imagine an American muscle car if it sounded like a 2 stoke lawnmower, and they never had that deep throb and the odd over run from un-burnt fuel. they would just be seen as junk.

Deeper post than 1st thought, just really wanted to say NFS sounded good :)
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GT has always lacked in the car sound department. Never understood why..
 
Vesartis
The only thing sound wise that I feel got turned down a bit in GT5 was the wind noise. That is something you can really hear in real life. I wish it were more pronounced. I hear a good stereo helps, but I have to use the TV speakers.
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It is apparent that the wind noise was turned down a bit in GT5, it was very apparent in GT5P. The Wind noise is still in GT5 but you only start to notice it starting around 120mph.
 
The game needs camera shake and motion blur on the very edges while in bumper/hood/cockpit mode like test drive unlimited has.

And it needs some wind noise, and DEFINATELY get rid of all the ****** tuner engine sounds in supercharged 427 small block z06's and Merc Cougars and such.

Would be great to get some better sounds.
 
I agree that the sounds could definitely have a lot more flair in them, and be more realistic in return. The rally sections feature pretty muted gravel sounds in the wheel arches, in real life this sound is one of the predominant things you would hear... other such things as that need to be refined and improved upon most definitely. It's sad that lesser games like NFS can just 'do' stuff like this without asking, yet GT feels a bit stunted in this area.

The sense of speed issue I think (as someone else tried to say) is down to the angle you see in the game. Most, if not all games always imply a certain amount of a skewed perspective whereby you see more things along the side of your vehivel than you would in real life. It's just an artificial lens effectively. The 'Narrow' and 'Narrower' modes removes this to different degrees and you'll notice the sense of speed reduces also, because it's making the view you see on your TV more realistic. Sadly unless you are surrounded by monitors you obviously cannot replicate the sense of periphery vision which is what gives you the main sense of speed. I use the Narrower mode mostly because it does at least give a realistic field of view, and I play with my 32inch TV on a table right behind my wheel so it fills my view for the most part. It feels pretty good to drive with that rather than a skewed perspective.
 
Sense of speed really IS missing. I know why.

There is no wind noise. If there is, I can't hear it.

It should be audible from all view points. Especially cockpit view (even with the windows closed)

Wind can get extremely loud.

They need to implement wind noise WITH the camera shaking effect, then it'd be perfect.
 
r0llinlacs: I think there is plenty of wind. In fact, I think there was too much in previous GTs, and that they've toned it down a bit. I always felt there was too much wind in previous GTs, sometimes so much that you couldn't hear the engine. I question how realistic that is.

Maybe slightly unrelated to the topic, but I'll make the point that I find the engine sounds to be very thin in GT5 (in all GTs actually). A lot of people direct this towards people using small TV speakers or something. Well I can tell you, it is nothing to do with this. If you watch real-life on-board of some kind of motorsport, it sounds real. If you hear a real-life F40 on TV, it sounds like a real-life F40, regardless of speaker size. Many games capture this kind of realistic engine sound. GT does not, and never has, in my opinion. The engines always sound very artificial.
 
One of the things that stopped me playing GT4 was the fact that the wind was so loud I couldn't hear anything else, and it became so distracting. I'm really glad they turned it down in GT5.
 
I have gone 170mph in my 944 Turbo just outside of Birmingham heading towards Atlanta and been 180mph on my ZX7R coming from Conyers on I20 into Atlanta and can say that no video game can ever give you the sense of speed that is true to life.

In any PC or console game, speed feels about half what it really is. That is why so many people complain about understeer....myself included. In GT2-5, I enter a turn and think I am doing 45mph and the front end is pushing like crazy so I look at the speedo and it says 70-75mph.

There is no way to re-create the sense of speed without peripheral vision and actual g-forces on the body.
 
GT5 sense of speed is good. NFS shift made it feel like you were in some sort of dream/trance with it's over the top blur in front of you. In real life if you look left or right at speed to see objects moving past. You do not see blur directly.

Basically you would need to have a screen on either side of you when you play a driving game so that in your peripharel vision things are blurring past you but when you physicall look left or right you can see them just moving past you very fast depending on your speed.
 
If there was some motion blur and camera shake with louder wind noise and some better / louder vehicle noises Im sure it would be a lot better.
 
On the sound of the wind:
It really depends on the car you're in. At ~160mph, in a Lexus GS450H, you won't hear more than a slight whistle from the onrushing wind.
Take another care for a spin and that'll change drastically. At roughly the same speed, a worked E36 M3 sounds like the wind would tear it apart.
It has a lot to do with the sound deadening in the car (or it being removed, as it was in the M3), for example and quite a few other things. The same goes for all other kinds of noises, from engine to tyres to whatever.
This is lacking in general in GT5 and is most evident if you switch between a car like the M5, which retains a lot of drivability and comfort in real life and a Super GT race car.
The volume of the engine is, for example, basically identical, which is, of course, utter nonsense.
What I personally miss the most, however, is the sounds coming from the car's suspsension. You'll barely notice this in a stock raod car, but take a race car to the track and you should really hear the suspension working...

What's more, GT5 gives only a little amount of audible feedback when you get of the track with a wheel or two. I guess anybody who's ever got a wheel off the road at some higher speeds knows that it's pretty toned down in GT5 as well.

If stuff like that would be present in GT5, I reckon that it would increase the sense of speed quite a bit, even without blurring the screen. That might be worth trying as well, though. Just because it was (over)used in NFS doesn't mean it's a bad thing by default.
 
In a real race car your eyes don't get blurry and music doesn't get faster paced in your mind....I've tested in a Star Mazda car at Leguna Seca and other than the noise of the car being a million times louder than the game, the vision aspect of it is pretty much the same. If PD wanted to make it ultra realistic, they would have cranked the engine sounds up in the actual race cars, but then instead of pissing and moaning about a "lack of sense of speed" everyone would be *****ing about blown speakers.
 
Camera shake: Unrealistic. Reason: In real life, your brain automatically compensates for bumps in the road while driving and you get a very smooth picture. (except at the very edges of your peripheral vision). Allow it as an option for people who want it and people who don't want it. This is the BIGGEST reason that I don't use cockpit cam.

Motion blur: Unrealistic. Reason: In real life, the stuff directly in front of you does not blur. Why should it in a game?

What should be in to allow more realism in the sense-of-speed department:

Multi-screen use. Let me use a triple-screen setup with a few PS3's. This gives me the peripheral vision that I lack with a single-screen setup. Since I now have peripheral vision, I get the blur that I want because the pixels are changing quickly in my peripheral vision. I now have blur that isn't artificial.
 
Luminis
On the sound of the wind:
It really depends on the car you're in. At ~160mph, in a Lexus GS450H, you won't hear more than a slight whistle from the onrushing wind.
Take another care for a spin and that'll change drastically. At roughly the same speed, a worked E36 M3 sounds like the wind would tear it apart.
It has a lot to do with the sound deadening in the car (or it being removed, as it was in the M3), for example and quite a few other things. The same goes for all other kinds of noises, from engine to tyres to whatever.
This is lacking in general in GT5 and is most evident if you switch between a car like the M5, which retains a lot of drivability and comfort in real life and a Super GT race car.
The volume of the engine is, for example, basically identical, which is, of course, utter nonsense.
What I personally miss the most, however, is the sounds coming from the car's suspsension. You'll barely notice this in a stock raod car, but take a race car to the track and you should really hear the suspension working...

What's more, GT5 gives only a little amount of audible feedback when you get of the track with a wheel or two. I guess anybody who's ever got a wheel off the road at some higher speeds knows that it's pretty toned down in GT5 as well.

If stuff like that would be present in GT5, I reckon that it would increase the sense of speed quite a bit, even without blurring the screen. That might be worth trying as well, though. Just because it was (over)used in NFS doesn't mean it's a bad thing by default.
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Very good point.

Soundwise, the driving in GT5 is dead!

You can hear the engine off course, but everything else is dead. So the topic is right. Sense of speed via sound does not exist at all. In GT5P we had at least windnoise, so that you got some additional feedback that you are driving faster. But even that is gone in GT5.
 
I agree that the sound definitely isn't what's making the sense of speed for me. The main sense of sped I get in this game is from the camera shake in the cockpit view or the extreme close up of the bumper cam. The sound does nothing. I've played Shift a lot and while I thought the actual driving physics were terrible, the cockpit view along with the audio really made it enjoyable. It's one of the reasons I kept playing it and every now and then come back to it, only to be reminded of the terrible driving. Here's hoping they fix that in Shift 2. If they do, then it may be a great racing game.

Also, it is pretty cool how the driver looks towards the corners in Shift 2. More games need to have this option.
 
Acquire
Also, it is pretty cool how the driver looks towards the corners in Shift 2. More games need to have this option.
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GTR2 has this too. So its not new.

This is something I really don't understand. It is like every racing game is produced like it is the first racing game ever. Why can't the devs not take a look at other games and get the good stuff into their new game. Games should evolve and accumulate the good solutions with every new release. But this does not happen. With every new game I think gosh, why did they do that?!
 
carlosy
GTR2 has this too. So its not new.

This is something I really don't understand. It is like every racing game is produced like it is the first racing game ever. Why can't the devs not take a look at other games and get the good stuff into their new game. Games should evolve and accumulate the good solutions with every new release. But this does not happen. With every new game I think gosh, why did they do that?!
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Because, appearently, a different focus of a certain game will lead to certain aspects being better developed (and researched) than others.

Maybe someday, a developer of a racing game will understand that reinventing the wheel isn't necessary. All they'd have to do is lump the best elements of a few games into one and I'd be in driving heaven :lol:
 
most cars a not very loud when your inside them anyway...
 
will4noobs
most cars a not very loud when your inside them anyway...
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Road cars aren't.
Racing cars are.

Reason: Racing cars have the sound insulation stripped out to shed more weight. This means in the cockpit of a race car, you are likely to hear a lot more engine noise than in a road car.
 
You should also hear more road/tire noise due to the lack of insulation. Unfortunately, GT5 only simulates the effects of stripping your car in terms of weight, but neither optically nor acoustically.
 
the Interceptor
You should also hear more road/tire noise due to the lack of insulation. Unfortunately, GT5 only simulates the effects of stripping your car in terms of weight, but neither optically nor acoustically.
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I agree 👍
The sound realism could have been better, but here's to hoping they try to update the sounds and sound engine through the (hopefully) monthly updates.
 
Sit close to the screen, problem solved
 
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