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With regard to Schumacher's record:

There's him trying to take out Jacques to win the’97 world title. Since he was driving a Ferrari he got away with a slap on the wrist.

There's taking his stop and go on the last lap, so that he crossed the line in the pit and won (this was judged legal so Might be more on a par with the Senna incident)

This year he overtook with the entire car off the track in a run off area.

He got the German marshals to push him back on the track in Germany of course. Something that there is a loophole for, but of course never used by anyone else. At least the Marshals don't usually cooperate!

Need I go on?
 
I used to cheat back in the day of GT1,2,3 :D, to get the job done if i was lagging behind, or the field was breathing down my neck. But today in GT4 i find no need to resort to skipping parts of the track to gain time or places. but i dont consider it cheating if your playing the computer, but if you are competing against a friend and he or she dosnt no about the shortcut, and you do and use it, then thats cheating, just appy the rules used in real motorsport, if you skip a part of the track you can get away with it if you deem yourself not have gained a place.
 
I heat alot on trial mountain but then again I'm already winning. I've meen taking that grass turn sense I got GT2 in 99'. Ohter than that nothing.
 
I think I've cheated twice in GT4. Once on some Fuji track because the computer had bumped me off a corner or something and I was pissed, and once on the Twin Ring Suzuki concepts race. I had hardly modified the car at all (I was in the crappy FF concept) because I'm cheap, and when I got to the race I quickly found out that A) The GSXwhatevers were a LOT faster than me on the straights B) The Twin Ring course was ALL straights C) My car refused to stop spinning its tires, and of course in a FF car traction control will just make it even slower D) I could cut across the back end of the course, pull in front of the AI, and stay just far enough ahead to cross the finish line first. That race was crazy, and the rest of the Suzuki concepts races were pretty rough too.

Of course, in GT and GT2 I cut across that final chicane at Trial Mountain just about all the time. Why? Because it didn't require as much thinking as actually going around it, and I didn't see the point since the grass was faster. Finally they fixed it in GT4 to where the grass slows you down more, although it's still not enough. I think I hopped that chicane at TM once just to see if it would still work (in practice, not in a race...bad time to experiment) and quickly decided it didn't...plus, the physics are so much better in GT4 I actually enjoy taking the last turn, as it can make or break a laptime :)
 
Most of the time in GT4 getting in the grass slows you down more than taking the correct line. However if taking short cuts is your thing then go for it.
It is after all only a game we play against a machine.
Is leaning on the AI to get a faster corner speed also cheating?
Is using the AI as your brakes to knock them of the track just before your NOS (Nitrous) runs out going for 200 A spec points cheating?
Running walls to get Gold license tests cheating?
Is upgrading your suspension and transmission to try to win 200 point races cheating?
Do you do what you have to, to win at all costs?
But be very careful when submitting times etc, as your ethics certainly will be questioned.
Why has PD put the % win ratio in the game?
If it wasn't there would people cheat less?
If 60 points = parity, does 200 points mean your car is 3.3 times less likely to beat the AI?.
Or does it mean the AI are 3.3 times worse than us.?
 
cheaters are only cheating themselves

and

everytime you cheat a kitten dies somewhere.... (i cant back this up tho)
 
ving
cheaters are only cheating themselves

and

everytime you cheat a kitten dies somewhere.... (i cant back this up tho)
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Since I am now trying to get 200 point races the kitten population has dropped at a alarming rat. (edit : speeling: rate).

The only thing I cant back up is a B double semi !. ( a B double is a prime mover with 2 trailers.)
 
yeah yeah yeah, cheating is bad
BUT, if one were so inclined, one could cut the last chicane before the start/finish line straight at Suzuka - saves a bunch of time, but it IS bad mmkay
 
No way! Cheats rock! you only have truly mastered the game when you know every short cut, every bouncy wall and every sand trap for AI punting on every track. There should be a cheater percentage as well as a completion percentage.
 
Ezz777
No way! Cheats rock! you only have truly mastered the game when you know every short cut, every bouncy wall and every sand trap for AI punting on every track. There should be a cheater percentage as well as a completion percentage.
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i can't agree more :D

nothing wrong with racing for real, but there's nothing wrong with using cheats. to each his or her own. just don't cheat in 2-player mode, or cheat your way into record books. I cheat when the AI cars frustrate the hell out of me :sly:
 
Alfaholic
Firstly, any professional racer with a desire to win will bounce over grass, bounce off walls, ignore chicanes and drive down escape roads if it all got them to the finish line quicker, and they could make it to the finish line before their car broke, and if they didn't have officials penalising them for doing it. Finding the fastest possible route around a race track that you and your car can succesfully navigate is not cheating, it's winning. Sometimes it's just less challenging than keeping it all on tarmac.

I remember when Senna purposefully went into a corner way too fast, knowing that he was going to lose control and probably wreck his car but also knowing that he was going to cross the start / finish line before falling off the track, and set a fastest qualifying lap because everyone else drove the last corner in a conventional (and therefore slower) manner. That behaviour was called genius a lot more than it was called cheating. I can't remember the track or the year. But he did it. He crashed ON PURPOSE to improve his qualifying time, because it was possible given his equipment and the track layout, and there was no rule against it. Such behaviour by a contributor on this forum would have him slagged off for the next thirty posts, but as Senna's example shows, "cheating" is not a reliable indicator of a lack of skill. If it's not against the rules, it's not cheating. It's lateral thinking.

.. :D
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Here here! 👍

I love thinking laying down! :sly:
 
440cuda9sec
I'm sure many people have discovered that at the end of trial mountain normal, there is an s-turn that has a grassy area in the middle. though, with license tests, you would be disqualified, in races, you can cut through this to make it easier on yourself, or to gain some time, it's something that i have been doin since the early days. Also, the back of fuji 90's has a turn that can be bipassed by goin through grass. I wanted to know if anyone else uses these and more, and if it is deemed exceptable by the commune?
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Whats the point? I dont gain any satisfaction knowing that I had to ceat to win.

It's also one of the big design flaws that annoy me about GT4. In Forza, and other games if you try and cut straight across grass to completely miss a corner you slow down dramatically, making sure it is in no way faster.

This is also a good thing for Online races to stop all you cheaters ;-)
 
ferrari_chris
And Schumacher's instances of cheating? (except for taking out Damon Hill(?) in Australia)
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He drove into Villeneuve, on purpose, in the final race of 1997, in an attempt to knock him out of the race. I think it was at Portugal. Villeneuve was passing Schumacher to take the lead in the race, and Schumacher would then have lost the championship. If both failed to finish the race, Schumacher would have been champion. He had all his points for the season docked from his record and received a fine. I don't know if his current records include the results from that season.

And in case anyone tries to dismiss it as a "racing incident", 1) villeneuve was already ahead of him and in clear view 2) Schumacher obviously swerved into him(his violent swing of the steering wheel was visible) and 3) Schumacher has admitted guilt.
 
Mad Matt
With regard to Schumacher's record:

There's taking his stop and go on the last lap, so that he crossed the line in the pit and won (this was judged legal so Might be more on a par with the Senna incident)
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That was bollocks. Because as far as I remember his Pit Box was after the start finish line, meaning he took the penealty after the race finished. (I think)
 
Alfaholic
He drove into Villeneuve, on purpose, in the final race of 1997, in an attempt to knock him out of the race. I think it was at Portugal. Villeneuve was passing Schumacher to take the lead in the race, and Schumacher would then have lost the championship. If both failed to finish the race, Schumacher would have been champion. He had all his points for the season docked from his record and received a fine. I don't know if his current records include the results from that season.

And in case anyone tries to dismiss it as a "racing incident", 1) villeneuve was already ahead of him and in clear view 2) Schumacher obviously swerved into him(his violent swing of the steering wheel was visible) and 3) Schumacher has admitted guilt.
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It was European Grand Prix at Jerez. MS had his WDC points stripped away that year, but since he didnt win it I doubt he was that botherd. Villeneuve was passing him around the outsuide and MS clearly turned in on him. It could be seen from the on-baord camera. And of course he admitted it!

PHOENIX
I also find these things help fight boredom when I discover after 30 minutes driving that I over-powered my car for an A-spec endurance race.
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Another annoying design flaw that has been in the GT series since the first game and really should have been fixed. As good a game GT is, some of the biggest problems it has have never been dealt with and they really need to be looked at for GT5 if PD wishes GT to remain among the top racing games in the console market.
I noticed in many reviews that complaints about the same usual problems such as A.I. and how easy it is to upgrade your car so you are gauranteed the win even if your crap (alhough admitadly(sp?) you dont have to use it) are starting to creep in more and more.
 
yeah, the grass and gravel is still a huge issue in GT-land... its something that really should have been fixed by now.
it gets better with every game, but i think they're afraid people will get pissy if the grass spins you out and slows you down as much as it should.
people already cry about the instant spinout you get if you drop one racing slick in the sand. (a new and welcomed feature to gt4 IMO)
 
Dr_Watson
yeah, the grass and gravel is still a huge issue in GT-land... its something that really should have been fixed by now.
it gets better with every game, but i think they're afraid people will get pissy if the grass spins you out and slows you down as much as it should.
people already cry about the instant spinout you get if you drop one racing slick in the sand. (a new and welcomed feature to gt4 IMO)
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Well it's supposed to be the Real Driving Simulator... Simulator being the key word their. You cant keep claiming that if it falls behind the competition.

If anyone doesnt like it real maybe they should go and play NFSU or something :)
 
It's not cheating. It's creative cornering.;)

Anyway, I have no problems with cheating against the AI. I basically consider the AI to be dirt. Inferior beings. Worthless. Scum. I cut corners, use super-fast cars, and ruthlessly smash them aside (I remember in GT2 when I was going too fast into the hairpin at Laguna Seca, so I swerved right to shove the leader into the sand with me, and came out of the turn in first). I'm more chivalrous towards human opponents.
 
I dont purposely cut the grass but somtimes as said before you cant help it when your goind 150mph and forget to brake :dopey: . Only time ive "cheated" on purpose was Mission 34.
 
The very word "cheat" has an animosity built into it. But, the question is... what is cheating?

I know I'm getting a bit philosophical here but... seriously.

Seems to me that cheating basically revolves around violating or purposely finding "loopholes" in accepted ground rules. Ground rules exist between people. So, if you're purposely violating ground rules set up between people you're definitely cheating 👎

So, in OLR, the reason taking shortcuts isn't allowed is because people agree on a set of ground rules. If the ground rules allowed shortcuts then it wouldn't be cheating now would it?

Loopholes... and by that term I'm implying bits that should have been covered by the ground rules but weren't. Are they cheating? Depends. If anything they could be considered "cheap" (poor, unsportsmanlike, whatever word you want to use) if not "cheating". :indiff:

Now what does this mean for a video game? Usually, the game will simply penalize you or stop you or end your game if you violate a "ground rule". And if it doesn't, is it cheating or simply a "loophole"? ( NOTE: Rewriting the ground rules with a cheat device... that's a YES. :grumpy: )

Is using shortcuts cheating? It could be if you consider the fact that AI doesn't do it (well, actually they do it just a little bit). How about ramming the AI into the sand considering they do it to you? How about riding an AI trying to pass on the outside into the grass... considering they do it to you?

So, part of it, for a game could be comparing to the AI or simply comparing to what other people consider "ok". Point is... those ground rules vary. But as long as the ground rules are clearly communicated, then how is it cheating?


For me, when it comes to 200p races *nothing* (short of using a cheat device) is cheating. BUT, there's a LOT of cheap behavior. Using the Dodge RAM (exploiting a bug) is cheap. Wall riding == cheap. Ramming the AI == cheap. Riding the AI == cheap. Shortcuts? == Yup, cheap.

However, I am guilty of plenty of cheap behavior (which seems to be directly related to the difficulty of the race... Hmmm... ) although I try to keep it to a minimum.

Wall riding? Once, Mission 34. I'd be ashamed if it wasn't so damn hard.
Fuji 90s shortcut? Never. Never ever.
Suzuka final chicane shortcut? Ehh... ok, from time to time. :sly:
 

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