Should 'Sport Mode' be completely separate from 'GT Mode'?

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394
United States
Maryland, USA
1625024391390.png

GT7 'Top Menu' concept made by me earlier in the year.
I think its rather obvious that staple features of GT Mode like component upgrades, car servicing (GT Auto), and the act of buying your own tires and cars are completely irrelevant to competitive Sport races. That is why most of those things listed weren't featured in GT Sport in the first place. Not only does separating the two modes make the most sense from an UI prospective for GT7, but it also creates an opportunity to make both separate parts of the game better, and cater more to their very different player bases. In the trailer, you could see 'Multiplayer' listed in the GT Town UI system. This kinda worries me that they might already be considering on combining GT Mode, with Sport in the Multiplayer tab to be placed alongside Open Lobbies. This would be a major mistake, mostly because I think the differences of both modes may negatively effect each other while being combined.
(Ex: Still being forced to buy cars in order to participate in certain events in Sport mode / The seriousness of Sport, negatively effecting the diversity and experience of events in GT Mode / UI placement of Sport Mode being too confusing for new players to understand.)



How separation could benefit Sport Mode.
ALL vehicles and tire types could (and should) be available and free to all players in the Sport section of the game. There is no longer a reason why players should ever be locked out of certain competitive events (like Gr. 1), just because they didn't want to grind for a car.
I think separation would also present the opportunity to bring back GT Sport's tuning system, but only exclusively for Sport mode in GT7. The only features that Sport should need from GT Mode, is the livery editor/discovery tab, and Time Trial mode for practicing.



How separation could benefit GT Mode.

Polyphony Digital would be presented with a reason to return loved features like Seasonal Events, and 'Quick Races' to GT Mode. They would be completely unique from the Sport section of the game because they would include your own cars from your own garage, and without ranked matchmaking. Meaning, there would be no longer a reason for the game to prevent you matchmaking into races with your friends.

I'm assuming without the added seriousness of Sport, these races may even be much more unique and lighthearted in nature. Instead of a Gr. 3 Quick Race that would likely be seen in the usual Sport Mode rotation, imagine instead a Fiat 500 race as a Quick race selection with open tuning and upgrades enabled, racing on the Nordschleife at night. We were robbed from ever seeing races like that in Sport thanks to how overly serious the tone of GT Sport was, and how hard it is to host fair Open Lobby races in GT Sport.
 
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3,840
Australia
Australia
Heres how I would do it

Every car is accessible online (Sport Mode) and in arcade mode, fully customisable with livery editor and the whole shebang

Offline you have the CarPG, start small and progress up

When you have the credits offline you can buy access to your online cars if you so choose, so you get to use the exact same cars that you've grown attached to online within the offline mode
 
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155
Australia
Australia
All it needs is the existing Sport Mode with the GT Mode (sim mode whatever) incorporated into it. So for example for dailies, have a couple of races with your standard Groups, BoP enabled. Then a couple of other races with a PP like system for people's modified cars.
 

RACECAR

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Why not just have for GT7 Sport mode races what they have now in Arcade mode in GT Sport: "Rental cars" for those that haven't grinded for the required cars of that event (Example: a GR.1 race that week would have the Gr.1 cars up for people to choose from incase they don't have them) and "Garage" for those that do have the cars for that event. Seems simple enough and makes the mode even more accessible.
 
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394
United States
Maryland, USA
All it needs is the existing Sport Mode with the GT Mode (sim mode whatever) incorporated into it. So for example for dailies, have a couple of races with your standard Groups, BoP enabled. Then a couple of other races with a PP like system for people's modified cars.
Modified car races with tuning enabled is never going to be a thing in ranked matchmaking. It's one of those things that just won't be allowed by Polyphony in a competitive environment. That's one of the major reasons for separating the two modes.


I don't think people who play GT Mode are going to want to play Sport 2.0 where we can't play Quick Races with our friends, and limited mostly to just Gr. 1-4 cars in online events. It just sounds too dull for GT Mode. At that point, people will just stick to open lobbies.
 
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1,069
United States
So. California
UnkaD
What if we had a hybrid of the two? Let's say we have a traditionally structured GT mode like in the old games, but every event has an option to run offline or in Sport mode. There could be a 15 or 20 minute cycle where everyone queued for each event gets pooled together to run the races.

I could see issues with this when it comes to matchmaking players of similar skill level and clean/dirty driving, and whether they could support so many events running simultaneously if they were to split groups according to a DR and SR rating. Also I can imagine many events becoming ghost towns due to lack of popularity or players choosing for optimum credit pay-outs, but I like the idea of being able to pick any event I want and jumping into a healthy race online. It's very difficult for me to find a fulfilling time in the lobbies. Everyone does the same things and none of it is what I'm interested in.
 
38,042
Australia
The Bronx
That was the good thing about Seasonals. Multiple races to choose from.
GT Mode should be structured more along Track Days. Sport Mode organised competition (FIA-based).

GT Mode could be more mileage heavy than ranking. Not so much emphasis on winning. More so CRB and mileage(points or building up your prefer brand loyalty points).

Sport Mode can continue as is.

I do like the idea of GT League races an online races. That's how varied the races should be. I mean, if I wanted to enter the Nostalgic Brands Hatch race. Just because I choose the Type II and won't win in a field of GT-40s, it should still be fun to participate.
 
394
United States
Maryland, USA
Why not just have for GT7 Sport mode races what they have now in Arcade mode in GT Sport: "Rental cars" for those that haven't grinded for the required cars of that event (Example: a GR.1 race that week would have the Gr.1 cars up for people to choose from incase they don't have them) and "Garage" for those that do have the cars for that event. Seems simple enough and makes the mode even more accessible.
Maybe a rental car system would work, but I've always been told from other Sport players that they have no interest in the progression system of Gran Turismo. As for Garages, I think they would almost need to be separate from GT Mode because of how different the tuning system would be, and the car servicing which wouldn't be in Sport. It doesn't make sense for a player to need to spend so many credits servicing his race car with oil changes, and engine/chassis overhauls, just to stay competitive in a ranked atmosphere. The fun 'CarPG' features of GT Mode, clash heavily with Sport.

What if we had a hybrid of the two? Let's say we have a traditionally structured GT mode like in the old games, but every event has an option to run offline or in Sport mode. There could be a 15 or 20 minute cycle where everyone queued for each event gets pooled together to run the races.
Having a hybrid of the two modes seems almost impossible to me without really negatively effecting both parts of the game. Both modes have extremely different player bases, and that is done on purpose by Polyphony.

People who play Sport mode have no interest in progression, CarPG mechanics, or singleplayer races. They just want to race in a competitive setting with ranking, and balanced as possible.

Players who play GT Mode prefer having the singleplayer campaign, and not needing to worry about other players ruining their experience. If they want online racing without being in an extremely competitive environment, they also can use Open Lobbies.

I could see issues with this when it comes to matchmaking players of similar skill level and clean/dirty driving, and whether they could support so many events running simultaneously if they were to split groups according to a DR and SR rating. Also I can imagine many events becoming ghost towns due to lack of popularity or players choosing for optimum credit pay-outs, but I like the idea of being able to pick any event I want and jumping into a healthy race online. It's very difficult for me to find a fulfilling time in the lobbies. Everyone does the same things and none of it is what I'm interested in.
I don't see Sport players caring much about their credit payout after each event, credits and progression aren't why most players play Sport. If they wanted progression, car tuning, ect they would be playing GT Mode instead. I've admittedly thought about playercounts with this layout, but I don't think it would be an issues, as that still has yet to be an issue in GT Sport - Which is the 2nd lowest selling GT game in the modern era.
 
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155
Australia
Australia
Modified car races with tuning enabled is never going to be a thing in ranked matchmaking. It's one of those things that just won't be allowed by Polyphony in a competitive environment. That's one of the major reasons for separating the two modes.


I don't think people who play GT Mode are going to want to play Sport 2.0 where we can't play Quick Races with our friends, and limited mostly to just Gr. 1-4 cars in online events. It just sounds too dull for GT Mode. At that point, people will just stick to open lobbies.
I mean dailies aren't necessarily ranked, I'm not suggesting it for FIA. Yes, I know DR is a thing, but some classes are unbalanced as it is. For example most Gr.4 daily races are just the entire field exploiting an unbalanced car. I can't see how it would matter.
 
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CLowndes888

I want to be monkey
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10,562
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fubbletrouble888
The game should have 3 distinct modes in addition to regular online lobbies - Arcade, GT and Sport Mode. Each with their own distinct flavour. Arcade Mode for sandbox races, GT Mode for the single-player campaign and Sport Mode for online competitions. That would cater for everyone, from the casual who simply wants to get in and drive their favourite car; to the enthusiast who wants to work through the campaign and earn their way up; to the hardcore racer who wants to show their stuff against the best.
 
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RACECAR

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Maybe a rental car system would work, but I've always been told from other Sport players that they have no interest in the progression system of Gran Turismo. As for Garages, I think they would almost need to be separate from GT Mode because of how different the tuning system would be, and the car servicing which wouldn't be in Sport. It doesn't make sense for a player to need to spend so many credits servicing his race car with oil changes, and engine/chassis overhauls, just to stay competitive in a ranked atmosphere. The fun 'CarPG' features of GT Mode, clash heavily with Sport.
What does progression have to do with Sport mode? I don't think you understand what I'm suggesting here.

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This is what I'm reffering to. Take this and tweek it for GT7's Sport mode where players have an option to either use cars available for that Race (Rental cars) or use the cars they actually do own (Garage Cars). It wouldn't matter which would be picked because both would be subject to whatever BOP PD has implemented for that category of that event (Just as Sport Mode in GTS does now even when you select your garage car for the event that allows it) so there wouldn't be a need for oil changes, chassis refresh or engine overhauls.
 
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38,042
Australia
The Bronx
That's what I don't understand for Arcade. Only a handful of cars in the finished model. When first booting the game with no updates, we have more cars available to choose. FOr SPort MOde, it makes sense. ANyone that does not want or feel the need to buy/earn cars to race online, should have all cars available for whatever Sport Mode races are active.

FIA is certainly different, but as suggested above, it dismisses any players from venturing into the offline content, if that's a part of the game they choose not to do.
 
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394
United States
Maryland, USA
This is what I'm reffering to. Take this and tweek it for GT7's Sport mode where players have an option to either use cars available for that Race (Rental cars) or use the cars they actually do own (Garage Cars). It wouldn't matter which would be picked because both would be subject to whatever BOP PD has implemented for that category of that event (Just as Sport Mode in GTS does now even when you select your garage car for the event that allows it) so there wouldn't be a need for oil changes, chassis refresh or engine overhauls.
I get what you are saying. Arcade Mode style rental system would definitely work for Sport mode, As long as things like setups and liveries are able to be changed and saved to rental cars prior to loading up an event. Also, every single car that meets regulations needs to be among the rental options. If a car happens to be OP, every player should have the option to switch to that car before a race without needing to buy it. (Not counting Manufacturers cup, obviously.)

One problem I could see popping up, is from letting players use cars from GT Mode. None of us know how it would work if a player tried to use a car with tuning components added, in a Sport mode race. Obviously it won't let the player enter the race with an advantage, but how hard would it for that player to take those things off the car so he can use it? I would hope the game would make it very seamless for that player to convert their GT Mode garage car over to a 'Sport Spec' without needing to leave Sport mode, and take those parts of manually. Keep in mind - the tuning system from GT Sport may likely stay in GT7, exclusively to Sport Mode. It could maybe even be possible for this reason, along with GT Mode car degradation, that PD chooses to prohibit garages being used across the different modes. Just for the sake of ease of use, and to save development time to make it possible.

Your solution would be the best way forward with some really clever development and UI along with it from PD, but the solution I had in mind is purposely meant to be as straightforward as possible. Having two separate garages across both modes, and giving players access to every car in the game for free in Sport presents very little room for issues and conflicts across the two modes. My way definitely would be the most simple solution, but not the best if Polyphony Digital was truly willing to take the development time needed to make switching between the two modes as seamless as possible.
@CLowndes888

The game should have 3 distinct modes in addition to regular online lobbies - Arcade, GT and Sport Mode. Each with their own distinct flavour. Arcade Mode for sandbox races, GT Mode for the single-player campaign and Sport Mode for online competitions. That would cater for everyone, from the casual who simply wants to get in and drive their favourite car; to the enthusiast who wants to work through the campaign and earn their way up; to the hardcore racer who wants to show their stuff against the best.

I agree with everything, but imo Open Lobbies 100% belong integrated in GT Mode. The combination of those two things were arguably the best thing about GT5 and GT6. Not sure if that's what you already believe or not, but couldn't completely tell what you meant by including - "in addition to regular online lobbies"

Also, hopefully they revive Arcade Mode by making it similar to what GT4 gave us, with much more car selection. The handful of cars in GT5, GT6, and GT Sport's arcade mode isn't a good selection.
 
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1,094
United Kingdom
Bristol, UK
OJBrit
People who play Sport mode have no interest in progression, CarPG mechanics, or singleplayer races. They just want to race in a competitive setting with ranking, and balanced as possible.

Players who play GT Mode prefer having the singleplayer campaign, and not needing to worry about other players ruining their experience. If they want online racing without being in an extremely competitive environment, they also can use Open Lobbies.


I don't see Sport players caring much about their credit payout after each event, credits and progression aren't why most players play Sport. If they wanted progression, car tuning, ect they would be playing GT Mode instead. I've admittedly thought about playercounts with this layout, but I don't think it would be an issues, as that still has yet to be an issue in GT Sport - Which is the 2nd lowest selling GT game in the modern era.
I don't think you really understand the GT playerbase. Many have cried out that Sport did not have the features of a GT game. They focused on a certain aspect and then built the game around it.
I don't see that they need to be separated. This is going to be a proper GT game in the mould of its predecessors. Sport mode is going to be integrated into that. I believe it will be similar to now with a set number of daily races and special events like FIA. If you want to take part then move the cursor to that part of the map.
In regards to tuning they will have a balance system in place. If you turn up with a tuned up car and they want something closer to standard then you'll have to swap out your parts to fit in with their PP/BOP settings. So for instance you may be allowed a bit of leeway allowing you say better brakes and an engine upgrade but the rest has to come off for this race. Standard part of racing.
GTAuto wouldn't be a chore either. A couple of clicks gets your car fresh in terms of oil and cleanliness. Just an extra small part of management that mimics real life.
I suspect licences will come back too meaning you could not just boot up first time and jump into a Gr1 race. This is good as it allows you to prove you can race well in faster machinery which will help driving standards in online. If you want to jump in and play then arcade/ lobbies will provide that for you.
Ultimately we will not know until it drops. But if you're hoping for a split prepare for disappointment.
 
38,042
Australia
The Bronx
I don't think you really understand the GT playerbase. Many have cried out that Sport did not have the features of a GT game. They focused on a certain aspect and then built the game around it.
I don't see that they need to be separated. This is going to be a proper GT game in the mould of its predecessors. Sport mode is going to be integrated into that. I believe it will be similar to now with a set number of daily races and special events like FIA. If you want to take part then move the cursor to that part of the map.
In regards to tuning they will have a balance system in place. If you turn up with a tuned up car and they want something closer to standard then you'll have to swap out your parts to fit in with their PP/BOP settings. So for instance you may be allowed a bit of leeway allowing you say better brakes and an engine upgrade but the rest has to come off for this race. Standard part of racing.
GTAuto wouldn't be a chore either. A couple of clicks gets your car fresh in terms of oil and cleanliness. Just an extra small part of management that mimics real life.
I suspect licences will come back too meaning you could not just boot up first time and jump into a Gr1 race. This is good as it allows you to prove you can race well in faster machinery which will help driving standards in online. If you want to jump in and play then arcade/ lobbies will provide that for you.
Ultimately we will not know until it drops. But if you're hoping for a split prepare for disappointment.
Then, I comes back to the argument of what about long time GT players? Why do those of us with "GT Experience" have to do a licence test to prove we can race in advanced machinery?

It'd be a step backward as Sport Mode allows everyone to enter at the same E/B level and advance accordingly.
 
1,094
United Kingdom
Bristol, UK
OJBrit
Then, I comes back to the argument of what about long time GT players? Why do those of us with "GT Experience" have to do a licence test to prove we can race in advanced machinery?

It'd be a step backward as Sport Mode allows everyone to enter at the same E/B level and advance accordingly.
Yes it can be seen as a frustration. But GT7 won't know you from Adam.

The sort of person who just comes in and wants to go fast without honing themselves is probably not someone you want on track in a GR1 car in the first place. GT games are about investment. It is likely that the Sport section will have lest restrictions than the rest of GT Mode though.
 
20,666
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
But GT7 won't know you from Adam.
It could do if they programmed it in. They have all the data on our GTS profiles which are tied to our PSN.

Even if they don't, license tests are a terrible way to weed out terrible drivers any way.
 
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C_Raccoon23

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One problem I could see popping up, is from letting players use cars from GT Mode. None of us know how it would work if a player tried to use a car with tuning components added, in a Sport mode race. Obviously it won't let the player enter the race with an advantage, but how hard would it for that player to take those things off the car so he can use it? I would hope the game would make it very seamless for that player to convert their GT Mode garage car over to a 'Sport Spec' without needing to leave Sport mode, and take those parts of manually.
I don’t see why the game can’t automatically revert upgraded cars to stock and then apply BOP when entering a daily race or FIA event.
 
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38,042
Australia
The Bronx
Yes it can be seen as a frustration. But GT7 won't know you from Adam.

The sort of person who just comes in and wants to go fast without honing themselves is probably not someone you want on track in a GR1 car in the first place. GT games are about investment. It is likely that the Sport section will have lest restrictions than the rest of GT Mode though.
Like Samus is saying, the "game" knew/allowed through memory card saved data, I could transfer credits from GT3 to GT4. PD would already know I'm an A/S driver and how much time I logged in GTS. Via my main account, the game should know(if programmed), as Samus suggests, where to start me off.

Sure, separate Sport Mode should then see me straight into A/S competition. However, even in game progression, we can choose beginner- Expert controls, Ai, game settings. Why not skip me past that?
Especially, when GT6 had us drive the Clio around Brands Hatch. Would have been better utilised to determine our skill levels.
 
1,094
United Kingdom
Bristol, UK
OJBrit
It could do if they programmed it in. They have all the data on our GTS profiles which are tied to our PSN.

Even if they don't, license tests are a terrible way to weed out terrible drivers any way.
They could, yes. EA uses it for FIFA but only to suggest a starting difficulty and settings.
Ultimately it's a full GT game rather than Sport version 2. PD will have to entwine Sport's features into a GT game rather than the other way around.
This means there may be things like I suggested, but it is all conjecture.
 
394
United States
Maryland, USA
I don’t see why the game can’t automatically revert upgraded cars to stock and then apply BOP when entering a daily race or FIA event.
That is what we would all want. Making things easy and seamless are not what Polyphony are known for though.

Ex:
In GT Sport lobbies, if you enter a lobby that has a maximum amount of horsepower allowed, you still have to go into the settings and manually set the horsepower and/or weight yourself to the maximum allowed number if you want your car to be competitive. You would figure the game simply would set it automatically to insure the race is fair for everyone, but it doesn't. There have been so many times where I've hosted a session myself, and many of the newer players cars are extremely slow. Why? Because they had no idea that they had to manually set their horsepower to the regulations, instead of the game just doing it automatically. The game doesn't even tell the player what the regulations are, they just have to guess till the game stops letting them add power to their car.

Keeping that in mind, The idea of Polyphony trying to make cars that have already been modified, seamlessly compatible with Sport without it being a hassle to the average player is kinda humorous to me. I suggested the 'separate garages' idea because it would be the most simple way for Polyphony to go about it, and hopefully the least frustrating for players.

Sarah
"Looks like you tried to enter a modified car into a competitive race! Please go back to GT Mode to manually take every part off the car, one by one."
 
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2,588
United States
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Ridley-X4
I don't think it'll happen. I could see a large amount of appeal of GT being that you buy cars, tune them, then race them in both the campaign and online. I don't think I'd mind it, either. It's a bit like Pokemon, where if you want to compete in the VGCs, it's not like you're given all species, all the items, etc. to pick from - you raise your team yourself.

That said, I could see there being a combination of online events where you both bring your own car, and are offered loaners, like in GT Sport's daily races. Especially if there was an event where PD wanted players to use a very specific sort of tune.
 
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394
United States
Maryland, USA
I don't think it'll happen. I could see a large amount of appeal of GT being that you buy cars, tune them, then race them in both the campaign and online. I don't think I'd mind it, either. It's a bit like Pokemon, where if you want to compete in the VGCs, it's not like you're given all species, all the items, etc. to pick from - you raise your team yourself.
That's the appeal of GT Mode though, not sport mode. You can't even tune cars in Sport mode. Currently in GT Sport, large amount of the daily events won't let you use your own car anyway.

I would prefer they let you change whatever you wanted to your cars in Sport mode, but I seriously doubt they would because of balancing. If a player wants to do online racing with tuning enabled, then they can go play open lobbies. Just like in previous games.
 
38,042
Australia
The Bronx
Okay, after restarting my game again(think I'm nearing 150 times. Seriously), my short argument for a separation of Sport Mode: My garage.

Past games, we could hide cars in our garage, by choosing favorites. As is, if I want a "clean" garage, I do not select an FIA Manufacturer. The cars can not be deleted or hidden.
If I do choose a manufacturer, I could choose not to use either car and they'd both sit at the bottom of my car list, out of sight. However, if I then decide to cull my garage, those cars irritatingly remain.

Pointed out in a previous post, Sport Mode should nearly give the options as Arcade Single & Custom Race and Scapes do: choose car from garage or Showroom. This way, the applicable Manufacturer and Class are shown.
 
11,926
Australia
Melbourne
Neomone/GTP_Imari
Yes. Trying to make systems that treat both the same makes both of them worse, as the game design goals are not even nearly the same for the two modes.

GT Mode is fundamentally an RPG experience. Anyone should be able to progress and complete it given enough time invested. Good drivers will complete it faster, but it's not intended to be so difficult that any reasonable player can't make their way through with a bit of effort. It also has a bit of Pokemon collecting thrown in there, which is fine and suits the idea of building up your car/garage to the point where you're this monstrously successful driver. This is where I feel the "7 to 77" idea fits best and really makes the most sense.

Sport Mode is fundamentally a competitive mode. By definition, not everyone wins a competitive mode. Players are differentiated entirely by skill, and no amount of grinding will allow a bad driver to be more successful. They simply have to get better. And so having additional gates on content is just frustrating and pointless - if you're a good enough driver to progress to higher level races you shouldn't be stuck grinding out a car to get there.

These two modes are catering to vastly different playstyles and types of players. Not making them separate means making compromises, which means that one or both are worse than they would otherwise be.
 
478
Spain
Spain
I've thought sometimes they could try to make a dual physics system, a more arcadey one for the more casuals, and a more realistic one for the more sim-racers that want more simulation feeling. This could be dividied in the two parts, sport mode for the realistic one, and then you could choose between both at career mode and lobbies
 
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